Being an asshole as a business strategy?

[Ms Naughty]

Yesterday I had a fabulous run in via another board with **** from E******* (yes, I searched here, I've seen the rules LOL)

As he was insulting and obnoxious, I banned him from the board in question, which was a very satisfying experience.

In the meantime, however, I saw posted elsewhere the theory that being insulting and obnoxious is part of his business strategy - that he deliberately does it in order to gain publicity for his program, and then turns around and says it's all a persona, and that he's really nice underneath.

At first I thought, bollocks, but then I considered how many stupid people there are in this world (and on a certain webmaster board), and how many seem to think that trail-of-destruction insults and viciousness means that you're a go-getter.

And, I guess since his business strategy seems to involve cancelling accounts and keeping the money, attracting affiliates this way may seem like a reasonable proposition.

So... do you think being a professional asshole would really work as a business strategy?

[Chop Smith]

I personally prefer the 'good ole boy' approach. Maybe he read 'Management By Intimidation'. And then maybe someone should tell him that all assholes stink.

[Greenguy]

He is an asshole & I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire, but he does have you talking about him & his program on the board, so maybe it is working.

[Ms Naughty]

Good point - feel free to delete this thread if you like. I'm sorry if it's a problem

But I guess that's the thing... if people like me get pissed off and make threads about him, yes it draws attention to his company.

But is the net effect worth it? Before yesterday, I didn't know about him, or his company. Now I know he's a cheating asshole. A thread denouncing the guy may result in people going to look at the program's webpage, but how many are stupid enough to start promoting him?

Is it better to just shut up and let others get sucked in, or better to post threads drawing attention to what he does?

I don't know, just thinking aloud.

[Ramster]

How can it be a strategy? Being an asshole is one thing but actually calling someone's mother a whore (he did on another board recently) is downright ignorant.

I may go the way of many others and not allow any sites promoting them to be listed on anything I'm associated with.

[Greenguy]

I should have added that you do attract more flies with honey then vinegar & that he's probably pissing off more people than he is getting to promote his program.

Hopefully his name & the name of his program become a dirty word on other boards, like it is here

[buttster]

I have no idea who this person or his program is, but I do wish someone could send me the name of the program he owns so I make sure I do not use it now or in the future!!

[Wazza]

2 words (4,4) - Mr Hur's Money

Being a cryptic crossword fan may help

[Ms Naughty]

Ooh, ooh, this looks like fun.
Cecile B. DeMille's Moulah

[JenC]

Since I'm on his good side, I actually have to say that he's a really nice guy......this board persona is very unlike the real guy. It has been said that there's "no such thing as bad publicity". Well perhaps that applies here.

[Stouch]

I think he set out with the agenda and has done very well from it. If you look at when these programs start, the key thing is exposure. I reckon he went from a webmaster brand recognition of say 10% to nearer to 98% inside 18 months. Every pissing match he has draws attention to the program & in reality has a chance of signing up affiliates.

Lets be honest and admit that lots of webmasters are starting their own programs all the time but how many are going to flourish like that one? Nowadays his program is one of the more well known ones out there, and thats a fact.

I would also say that he does back it up in that they always are one of the first to try new things as well. For instance hosted TGP's and a few other selling aids.

So it dont matter how much you hate him, he has done well from it.

[urb]

Originally posted by JenC
...this board persona is very unlike the real guy....

It's like road-rage isn't it?

The protection of the inside of a car is like the protection of the virtual board posting world.

[kristian]

Someone will end up either beating the crap out of him or setting him on fire. There's a lot of wealthy people in the industry who would not think twice about blowing some coin on an execution. I always think being nice and making friends is a better - safer - policy. *i cant be bothered to find the 2 cents thingy, but you know its here*

[Ms Naughty]

So it dont matter how much you hate him, he has done well from it.

Well, yes, if the the only thing you measure is profit, then that makes him a winner. And that's certainly all he measures himself by, judging from yesterday's comments.

But here we get into ethics.

If your profit arises from cheating people out of money... well, it's essentially theft, isn't it? And I would say that - from what I've heard - the way he cancelled people's accounts, it was far from honest.

And if you make so many enemies in the course of your business, and cause a great deal of stress for others, you're not much of a human being, are you? I don't give a shit if he's nice to a select few in "real life". It's no excuse for behaving like an asshole to other decent people in the course of your business.

We may be pornographers, but it doesn't mean we have to be scum.

[Ramster]

Yes his program has done well but now that it is should he not stop being such an asshole? Fuck him and his program!!

[Tev]

This is what I do not get whatsoever. For years I have noticed some affiliate programs not only getting bad publicity, but encourage it.

They do what in my mind is everything possible to sabatoge their business by being complete jerks, yet their programs continue to grow.

Is it that there are a large portion of webmasters that think bad is cool and flock to that?

|confused|

[NevDull]

It's quite possible that they think that the program will be dirty with surfers to squeeze as much cash out of the consumer, leading to more money for them.

[Dagwolf]

Originally posted byStouch

I reckon he went from a webmaster brand recognition of say 10% to nearer to 98% inside 18 months. Every pissing match he has draws attention to the program & in reality has a chance of signing up affiliates.

The above is pretty much true. Although I believe he's reached the point where he could STOP the charade without harming his business.

However, although I believe his strategy wouldn't work here, I've got to say that assholes and clowns are the lifeblood of some other places, just as information and discussion are vital to this board.

[Kath]

The funny thing about charades like that - and alternate personas - they always catch up to you eventually. What happens is that all the people you've pissed off over the years are still pissed off at you and won't work with you... and all the people who cheered you on because they thought you were some cool asshole become disappointed in you and won't work with you because you are no longer that cool asshole...

We've all seen that happen with a few of the biggest piss monger wanna-be assholes on the boards over the years...

Karma always comes around - you can't run from it.

[JenC]

There is an old saying that is so wise......"Don't step on people to get to the top because you might see them on your way back down".

Very true words.

[Jim]

I just don't get the whole asshole thing. Don't get me wrong, I am all for being an asshole when the need is there. But to be an asshole just to be an asshole is just bad for business.

Say, you were thinking of doing business with 2 different companies but you could only chose one. One person is professional and the other calls people whores, pedos...etc. Who do you want to do business with?

Again, it's just bad business.

[The Other Steve]

Unfortunately his strategy does work in the short term but that isn't much comfort to those he chooses at random to attack.

An associate of ours uses a similar but far less aggressive and less personal approach on a mainstream marketing board and it ensures that every one of her posts gets read by the majority of the board.

We'll see how it works on attracting affiliates when we launch our mainstream affiliate program tomorrow.

[Opti]

Originally posted by Kath
The funny thing about charades like that - and alternate personas - they always catch up to you eventually. What happens is that all the people you've pissed off over the years are still pissed off at you and won't work with you... and all the people who cheered you on because they thought you were some cool asshole become disappointed in you and won't work with you because you are no longer that cool asshole...

We've all seen that happen with a few of the biggest piss monger wanna-be assholes on the boards over the years...

Karma always comes around - you can't run from it.

I can't even think of one "piss marketer" that has had long term success.. not without dropping it and moving on from that image anyway.. In fact, most could have turned out being genuine, real-life, assholes in the end come to think! ;-)



I really only wanted to post as I had to ask if anyone else feels like this guy should be given a trademark over the phrase; "but he's a really nice guy in person" ?

And say, that after having been told sooo many times how "nice" this guy is face to face... I just realised why that might be.... he HAS to be VERY nice to stay in one piece! ;-)


same issue as Stampy the Elephant says Homer

[Stouch]

I cant comment on ethics with regard to cancelling accounts etc as I am not too aware of any of the accusations levelled. However lets look at the concept of negative publicity being good publicity in some cases.

I think the real distinction needs to be broken down into 2 things... The personality and the program they represent.

Firstly, our guy in question is more than happy to have people think he is a total prick, an asshole or whatever. However it is done in a way that the arguments are *usually* with him, not his program. In general, his program is generally considered no better or worse than most other programs out there. If he has cancelled accounts then its not what the program is known for, and I also know that it wouldnt be the only sponsor to cancel an affiliates account.

Then lets take a look at Perfection Jeff. Now I have never pushed that program or know the guy, but owing to what can only be described as some adverse publicity, I wouldnt touch it with a bargepole.

If I was summarising the situation I would say that he has used negative *personal* publicity in an immensely clever way to build a pretty good business. Could he change the persona? Probably, but why bother? Its working because his negative publicity is nothing like the negative business publicity that PJ has attracted.

If ever he did a PJ and failed to pay across the board it would probably drop like a stone though owing to the way its been built.

[KCat]

Originally posted by Dagwolf
However, although I believe his strategy wouldn't work here, I've got to say that assholes and clowns are the lifeblood of some other places, just as information and discussion are vital to this board.

Agreed. The "I'm so hardc0re" attitude would just be embarrassing here.