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2007-09-09, 02:08 AM | #1 |
Lonewolf Internet Sales
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Ahhh, so I won't get credit for any surfers that return and buy within a few days unless they bookmark a link that has my referral code. That's good to know.
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2007-09-09, 02:11 AM | #2 |
I'm going to the backseat of my car with the woman I love, and I won't be back for TEN MINUTES
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And you also won't lose sales because they visit another webmasters site before yours, click on their referral code and have their cookie already in their system when they click on your referral code.
It's called swings and roundabouts... |
2007-09-09, 04:01 AM | #3 | |
Lonewolf Internet Sales
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That's something I've NEVER seen happen. And if it had, there'd have been a big stink on the boards. Nice try, but I'm not buying it as a "benefit" of not using cookies to credit return surfers to the originating affiliate. |
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2007-09-09, 11:23 AM | #4 |
Mean people suck, nice people swallow, are you mean or nice?
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Huh? No thanks. This is prompting another thread.
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2007-09-09, 11:41 AM | #5 |
A woman is like beer. They look good, they smell good, and you'd step over your own mother just to get one!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 51
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These threads are great! Not only for their entertainment value but more importantly because you learn which sponsors you don't want to sign up to or promote EVER!
I can't even believe that a sponsor would just cancel an account as fraud without first contacting the webmaster involved! Un-fucking-believable! The cheaters do spoil things for the rest of us but we still expect sponsors to make an attempt to clear it up with the webmaster first. As tigermom says if the webmaster is a fraud he won't try to clear up his name. I can't believe that Lisa at Pornmegabucks has still not changed her position in this thread given all the webmasters that have stood up for Sheepguy and even Useless' Google research! Just think of all those potential pornmegabucks promoters that will go to the message boards to search about Porn Mega Bucks before signing up... not after reading this thread! A few months ago one of our main sponsors made a complete ass of himself here calling out a webmaster that as far as we could see didn't deserve that kind of treatment. Well we dropped that program immediately and I will never make another gallery or free site for his program nor will I ever actively promote it again. Sponsors need to have respect for us honest webmasters, we spend everyday promoting your smut and if something "fishy" happens with our affiliate account the least we deserve is an email before being canceled as a fraud! |
2007-09-09, 03:09 AM | #6 |
My wife is not a doobie to be passed around! On our wedding day I promised to bogart her for life!
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 242
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Thanks for the recipt Lisa, hope we can get this sorted out soon
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2007-09-09, 03:54 AM | #7 |
You can now put whatever you want in this space :)
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Lisa, I can see how things must have looked from your end, and I can see your need to protect your billing system. All we're saying is that maybe you should do that little bit of investigating on your part, perhaps even disabling a webmaster's account while doing so, rather than labeling them as fraud and raising who knows which flags all over CCBill for it. If that flag is just within your own program and does not affect a webmaster's standing through out CCBill, that would be one thing btw. I am still not clear as to whether these things get logged on one's record in CCBill.
Useless Warrior here presented a most plausible theory, whereas Sheepguy's referrer ID comes as number 1 in Google search results for your site. Therefore, if anyone was trying to breach your security systems with stolen CC's using Google search for it (as your own logs indicate was the case) they are more than likely to be doing so using Sheepguy's codes, simply because he was doing better SEO than you guys. It's not about knowing Sheepguy or realizing in advance whether this was an experienced webmaster or not. Now, I have not run a paysite or a program before, but wouldn't this kind of procedure be good: first cancel the transactions and suspend the webmaster's account for 48 hours or something, then contact them and tell them there is suspected fraud. If they are cheaters, I doubt that they'll bother denying it or even getting back to you. One thing is certain, they will not be trying it again with you guys. If on the other hand, you are dealing with an honest webmaster, you might just be able to get some credentials for them from other sponsors maybe, or from webmasters boards, and stop short of flagging their name for fraud in the system. Again, this isn't about Sheepguy, to me (much as I love you, man!). It's about something that could happen to any honest working webmaster. BTW. just because you've seen this 15 times before doesn't even mean they were all cheaters. Some of them could have been honest webmasters who just figured it would be easier to drop your links and forget all about it. And even if they were all cheaters, obviously it doesn't prove that the next one is a cheater as well. I'm saying obviously, because I think it should be clear even to you by now, that in this very particular case, you've hit on someone that is a totally honest webmaster.
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XLEF |
2007-09-09, 07:23 AM | #8 |
I'm going to the backseat of my car with the woman I love, and I won't be back for TEN MINUTES
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If they were attempting to breach site security, don't you think that perhaps they might have entered the members area at least once?
Somehow I don't think that's it... And Toby, that is a known side effect of using cookies. It's one of the reasons some programs/webmasters prefer cookies and also one of the reasons that some dislike them intently. Their perceived benefits to some people are a perceived downfall to others. |
2007-09-09, 07:36 AM | #9 |
Lonewolf Internet Sales
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OH BULLSHIT! I didn't just fall off the turnip truck yesterday. In fact I have a bachelors degree in Comp Sci and fully understand how cookies function. If that is a "known side effect", then it's due to errors in the coding.
CCBill has been doing this for MANY years and I've yet to see anyone post a complaint that an existing cookie is overriding a current referral code. It's something that is not that difficult to detect. |
2007-09-09, 09:58 AM | #10 | |
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hell
Posts: 817
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For someone that claims so much experience you come across as being very naive. You've now questioned the ethics of all programs as i wonder how many other honest webmasters have been victimised by unfounded claims of fraud. Without any investigation whatsoever you've labeled the guy a criminal. Judging by the poor conversion ratios, can you really afford to be this confident? |
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2007-09-09, 11:26 AM | #11 |
That which does not kill us, will try, try again.
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Hiya Lisa
I know you've been in the business a long time, and you're following what you believe are the correct procedures as you deal with this issue. And I appreciate that you're continuing to talk with us here on the board about it. So I just want to suggest that you take a couple of steps back and consider viewing this thread from a completely different perspective. Try looking at it as suggestions being made by affiliates on how they wish an affiliate program would handle things when something like this happens. Sure, the tendency is always to set things up to protect against the many 'bad guys' who are constantly trying to find ways to steal from you or damage your program and/or its processing capabilities. But as someone who does run a program, I'm suggesting that a more personal approach to handling something like this could have a lot of value to you. We've found that most of the bad guys will go away once you contact them and tell them what you suspect, while the good guys will take objection to any such suspicion and go out of their way to prove their good intentions. The experienced bad guys have learned there's not enough profit in arguing after being identified, so they mostly just vanish. Of course you want to protect your processing, and there's no reason not to suspend an account while investigating. But the main idea is to contact the affiliate webmaster to let them know the account has been temporarily suspended because of suspicious activity. If a webmaster doesn't respond to repeated messages that all signups are being refunded (when applicable), you can pretty much assume that was a bad guy and cancel the account completely. There's definitely more than one way those transactions could have wound up being posted against a webmaster's affiliate account. And regardless of what your statistics may show, it's almost always better to give your affiliates the benefit of the doubt until you're really sure. Simon P.S. This post is meant to be taken as an 'in general' suggestion and not so much about the particular webmaster involved here. P.P.S. We do use cookies for tracking and the standard thing is that the most recent cookie overwrites the existing cookie if there is one. Our cookies last just under 9 months if nothing overwrites them. P.P.P.S. That said, I do want to add that I stand with everyone else here who's posted to say they don't believe SheepGuy would have done anything to defraud your or any other program.
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"If you're happy and you know it, think again." -- Guru Pitka Last edited by Simon; 2007-09-09 at 11:42 AM.. |
2007-09-09, 09:03 PM | #12 |
I'm going to the backseat of my car with the woman I love, and I won't be back for TEN MINUTES
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After further investigation, and consultation both with my boss and Paycom, we can find no evidence linking Sheepguy to the fraudulent signups put through under his reseller code.
Tho the signups were most definitely fraudulent, it seems that it is possible that Sheepguy was in fact the unwitting victim of someone with a batch of stolen credit cards. Although I acted in good faith based on both the evidence before me, and my past experience with cases just like this, I accept that this time I got it very wrong. I now know that although on the surface it appeared like a clear case of webmaster fraud, there is now something else to take into consideration when investigating cases like this, something that was not, in my experience, an issue previously. I apologise unreservedly to Sheepguy for any distress my actions may have caused him. As a gesture of conciliation, when reinstating his account I have also raised his payout to 70%, an action I realise is most likely futile as he is unlikely to ever send us a hit again, however it has been done. Again, my wholehearted apology for the understandable distress this episode has caused. |
2007-09-09, 10:34 PM | #13 | |
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,527
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Thanks you for reinstating my account, the stats will come in handy helping me to ensure that I have taken down all of your links and won't accidentally send some hits your way.
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If the Environment was a bank, they would have saved it by now. |
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2007-09-10, 09:38 AM | #14 |
wtfwjd?
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,103
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..hope it all works out in your best interest, you're a good man!
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2007-09-10, 08:13 AM | #15 | |
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hell
Posts: 817
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No fucking shit! How easy it would be to bring down a webmaster by using stolen credit cards against his or her account. Or atleast with incompetent sponsors like yours. Sheepguys being very reasonable i think as i'd of slapped a lible case on your arse within 24hrs. |
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2007-09-10, 12:53 PM | #16 |
You can now put whatever you want in this space :)
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You are a class act for doing the right thing.
Last edited by ArtWilliams; 2007-09-10 at 12:58 PM.. |
2007-09-11, 01:47 PM | #17 | |
Don't get discouraged; it's usually the last key that opens the lock...
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It's a start, but you went way too far and will never see any traffic from my sites. |
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2007-09-10, 10:43 AM | #18 |
NYC Boy That Moved To The Island
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Lisa it takes a big person to openly applogize like you just did
your stock just went up a point or two in my book
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Accepting New partners |
2007-09-10, 09:59 PM | #19 | |
A woman is like beer. They look good, they smell good, and you'd step over your own mother just to get one!
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Maybe, with a bit of luck, some good can come from all this. B.
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Be nice to people on your way up because you meet them on your way down. |
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2007-09-10, 01:14 PM | #20 |
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hell
Posts: 817
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I reckon he should atleast get a blowjob for the trouble.
And if not, then i'd be happy to accept one on his behalf. |
2007-09-11, 12:14 AM | #21 |
Someone Turn Off The Damn Heat!
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why are people being so nice in the last 3 or so posts?? WTF she was a bitch and overreacted so she appologized but who cares, this is how they do business, why be all nice just because she got cornered.
Maybe she called someone bro and bought them a drink at a show lol
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Get ElevatedX W/Hosting 99MO! |
2007-09-11, 05:09 AM | #22 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: About to be evicted!!!!
Posts: 4,082
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I agree it took guts (or more likely a yelling at from her boss) to apologise, but it does not alter the original situation. If I poked you in the eye with a sharp stick, then when you told everyone what I had done, I said "sorry" to you, would you be happy with me?
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2007-09-11, 02:41 PM | #23 | |
You can now put whatever you want in this space :)
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Atlanta,Ga
Posts: 893
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2007-09-11, 07:23 AM | #24 |
Wheither you think you can or you think you can't, Your right.
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It's amazing this got drug out so far. Yes sheepguy brought it up, but it could have been and should have been taken into private conversation right away. The damage is done, little late now. Like ecchi said, sorry doesn't do a whole lot of good now. It's great sheepguys rep is in tact, to bad PMB couldn't say the same.
Sure my little bit of traffic won't be missed. |
2007-09-11, 01:04 PM | #25 |
No matter how good you are at something, there's always about a million people better than you
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Mostly I just feel sorry for Sheepguy. 10 years in the business and he still hasn't heard of proxies. He just goes straight in there, signs up 5 times in a row with the same IP and wait for that sweet cash. Doofus!
Oh, that was sarcasm by the way. But I sure do hope programs have more advanced anti-fraud protection than this, or you'll end up only catching the complete idots or the (as in this case) innocent. |
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