Porn MegaBucks says I'm a fraud - Page 3

picXX · 2007-09-09, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa

As to talking to the webmaster first, what would that prove exactly?

Maybe the fact that you are taking youre buiseness partners seriously?
You are not doing affiliates a favour to let them promote youre program.
It is a 2 way buiseness, so a 2 way communication should be in place.
To assume that any affiliate/webmaster is fraudelent every time something happens, without even trying to investigate or communicate, is like shooting yourself with a silverbullet in the ass.

Lisa · 2007-09-09, 07:23 AM

If they were attempting to breach site security, don't you think that perhaps they might have entered the members area at least once?

Somehow I don't think that's it...

And Toby, that is a known side effect of using cookies. It's one of the reasons some programs/webmasters prefer cookies and also one of the reasons that some dislike them intently.

Their perceived benefits to some people are a perceived downfall to others.

Toby · 2007-09-09, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa

And Toby, that is a known side effect of using cookies.

OH BULLSHIT! I didn't just fall off the turnip truck yesterday. In fact I have a bachelors degree in Comp Sci and fully understand how cookies function. If that is a "known side effect", then it's due to errors in the coding.

CCBill has been doing this for MANY years and I've yet to see anyone post a complaint that an existing cookie is overriding a current referral code. It's something that is not that difficult to detect.

Bobc01 · 2007-09-09, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa

If they were attempting to breach site security, don't you think that perhaps they might have entered the members area at least once?

That sounds a typical trick done by carders for password sharing.
For someone that claims so much experience you come across as being very naive.
You've now questioned the ethics of all programs as i wonder how many other honest webmasters have been victimised by unfounded claims of fraud.
Without any investigation whatsoever you've labeled the guy a criminal.
Judging by the poor conversion ratios, can you really afford to be this confident?

Licker4U · 2007-09-09, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa

It's called swings and roundabouts...

Huh? No thanks. This is prompting another thread.

Simon · 2007-09-09, 11:26 AM

Hiya Lisa

I know you've been in the business a long time, and you're following what you believe are the correct procedures as you deal with this issue. And I appreciate that you're continuing to talk with us here on the board about it.

So I just want to suggest that you take a couple of steps back and consider viewing this thread from a completely different perspective. Try looking at it as suggestions being made by affiliates on how they wish an affiliate program would handle things when something like this happens.

Sure, the tendency is always to set things up to protect against the many 'bad guys' who are constantly trying to find ways to steal from you or damage your program and/or its processing capabilities. But as someone who does run a program, I'm suggesting that a more personal approach to handling something like this could have a lot of value to you.

We've found that most of the bad guys will go away once you contact them and tell them what you suspect, while the good guys will take objection to any such suspicion and go out of their way to prove their good intentions. The experienced bad guys have learned there's not enough profit in arguing after being identified, so they mostly just vanish.

Of course you want to protect your processing, and there's no reason not to suspend an account while investigating. But the main idea is to contact the affiliate webmaster to let them know the account has been temporarily suspended because of suspicious activity. If a webmaster doesn't respond to repeated messages that all signups are being refunded (when applicable), you can pretty much assume that was a bad guy and cancel the account completely.

There's definitely more than one way those transactions could have wound up being posted against a webmaster's affiliate account. And regardless of what your statistics may show, it's almost always better to give your affiliates the benefit of the doubt until you're really sure.

Simon

P.S. This post is meant to be taken as an 'in general' suggestion and not so much about the particular webmaster involved here.

P.P.S. We do use cookies for tracking and the standard thing is that the most recent cookie overwrites the existing cookie if there is one. Our cookies last just under 9 months if nothing overwrites them.

P.P.P.S. That said, I do want to add that I stand with everyone else here who's posted to say they don't believe SheepGuy would have done anything to defraud your or any other program.

koalaTalex · 2007-09-09, 11:41 AM

These threads are great! Not only for their entertainment value but more importantly because you learn which sponsors you don't want to sign up to or promote EVER!

I can't even believe that a sponsor would just cancel an account as fraud without first contacting the webmaster involved! Un-fucking-believable!

The cheaters do spoil things for the rest of us but we still expect sponsors to make an attempt to clear it up with the webmaster first. As tigermom says if the webmaster is a fraud he won't try to clear up his name.

I can't believe that Lisa at Pornmegabucks has still not changed her position in this thread given all the webmasters that have stood up for Sheepguy and even Useless' Google research!

Just think of all those potential pornmegabucks promoters that will go to the message boards to search about Porn Mega Bucks before signing up... not after reading this thread!

A few months ago one of our main sponsors made a complete ass of himself here calling out a webmaster that as far as we could see didn't deserve that kind of treatment. Well we dropped that program immediately and I will never make another gallery or free site for his program nor will I ever actively promote it again.

Sponsors need to have respect for us honest webmasters, we spend everyday promoting your smut and if something "fishy" happens with our affiliate account the least we deserve is an email before being canceled as a fraud!

GonZo · 2007-09-09, 11:46 AM

DAMN!!!

Mr Spock · 2007-09-09, 12:03 PM

The main problem here seems to me to be PornMegaBuck's attitude to affiliate webmasters, accusing a wm of fraud without any communication and secondly Lisa's arrogant attitude in addressing the issue here, she just doesn't get that their could have been a better way to deal with the matter.

You say that you have seen this type of transaction 15 times in the past 6 years, which I don't think is that many given the volumes of transactions that are processed, so in general I think it is better to assume that the wm you are dealing with is honest.

Guess what, I'll never sign up with this bunch of clowns and I am sure there are dozens of webmasters who feel the same way.

Sheepguy is a respected and well liked webmaster and I don't believe that he would engage in fraudulent transactions.

spacemanspiff · 2007-09-09, 01:44 PM

Whenever I'm looking at program and thinking of signing up, I usually come over here and do a search to see what experiences other folks have had with the program. Anyone else do the same?

Anyone want to venture a guess how much Lisa has cost her company in the name of "protecting" it?

Lisa · 2007-09-09, 09:03 PM

After further investigation, and consultation both with my boss and Paycom, we can find no evidence linking Sheepguy to the fraudulent signups put through under his reseller code.

Tho the signups were most definitely fraudulent, it seems that it is possible that Sheepguy was in fact the unwitting victim of someone with a batch of stolen credit cards.

Although I acted in good faith based on both the evidence before me, and my past experience with cases just like this, I accept that this time I got it very wrong.

I now know that although on the surface it appeared like a clear case of webmaster fraud, there is now something else to take into consideration when investigating cases like this, something that was not, in my experience, an issue previously.

I apologise unreservedly to Sheepguy for any distress my actions may have caused him.

As a gesture of conciliation, when reinstating his account I have also raised his payout to 70%, an action I realise is most likely futile as he is unlikely to ever send us a hit again, however it has been done.

Again, my wholehearted apology for the understandable distress this episode has caused.

Llam4 · 2007-09-09, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa

I have seen this EXACT pattern before, probably 15 or so times in the last 6 years and every single time it's been a 'webmaster' committing the fraud to their own gain.

Am I the only one concerned by this?

If the other 15 "fraudsters" were given the same courtesy (or lack thereof), who's to say which if any of them were really attempting fraud?

SheepGuy · 2007-09-09, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa

After further investigation, and consultation both with my boss and Paycom, we can find no evidence linking Sheepguy to the fraudulent signups put through under his reseller code.

Tho the signups were most definitely fraudulent, it seems that it is possible that Sheepguy was in fact the unwitting victim of someone with a batch of stolen credit cards.

Although I acted in good faith based on both the evidence before me, and my past experience with cases just like this, I accept that this time I got it very wrong.

I now know that although on the surface it appeared like a clear case of webmaster fraud, there is now something else to take into consideration when investigating cases like this, something that was not, in my experience, an issue previously.

I apologise unreservedly to Sheepguy for any distress my actions may have caused him.

As a gesture of conciliation, when reinstating his account I have also raised his payout to 70%, an action I realise is most likely futile as he is unlikely to ever send us a hit again, however it has been done.

Again, my wholehearted apology for the understandable distress this episode has caused.

That's all very well, but until I recieve assurances from CCBill and Paycom that there is no black mark beside my name caused by your company, well, I'll still be talking to my lawyer on Tuesday.

Thanks you for reinstating my account, the stats will come in handy helping me to ensure that I have taken down all of your links and won't accidentally send some hits your way.

Bobc01 · 2007-09-10, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa

Tho the signups were most definitely fraudulent, it seems that it is possible that Sheepguy was in fact the unwitting victim of someone with a batch of stolen credit cards.

No fucking shit!

How easy it would be to bring down a webmaster by using stolen credit cards against his or her account.
Or atleast with incompetent sponsors like yours.

Sheepguys being very reasonable i think as i'd of slapped a lible case on your arse within 24hrs.

LD · 2007-09-10, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SheepGuy

That's all very well, but until I recieve assurances from CCBill and Paycom that there is no black mark beside my name caused by your company, well, I'll still be talking to my lawyer on Tuesday.

way.

..hope it all works out in your best interest, you're a good man!

Tommy · 2007-09-10, 10:43 AM

Lisa it takes a big person to openly applogize like you just did
your stock just went up a point or two in my book

ArtWilliams · 2007-09-10, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa

I apologise unreservedly to Sheepguy for any distress my actions may have caused him.

You are a class act for doing the right thing.

Bobc01 · 2007-09-10, 01:14 PM

I reckon he should atleast get a blowjob for the trouble.

And if not, then i'd be happy to accept one on his behalf.

Bluey · 2007-09-10, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy

Lisa it takes a big person to openly applogize like you just did your stock just went up a point or two in my book

Yes we agree with Tommy.

Maybe, with a bit of luck, some good can come from all this.

B.

babymaker · 2007-09-11, 12:14 AM

why are people being so nice in the last 3 or so posts?? WTF she was a bitch and overreacted so she appologized but who cares, this is how they do business, why be all nice just because she got cornered.

Maybe she called someone bro and bought them a drink at a show lol

ecchi · 2007-09-11, 05:09 AM

I agree it took guts (or more likely a yelling at from her boss) to apologise, but it does not alter the original situation. If I poked you in the eye with a sharp stick, then when you told everyone what I had done, I said "sorry" to you, would you be happy with me?

ronnie · 2007-09-11, 07:23 AM

It's amazing this got drug out so far. Yes sheepguy brought it up, but it could have been and should have been taken into private conversation right away. The damage is done, little late now. Like ecchi said, sorry doesn't do a whole lot of good now. It's great sheepguys rep is in tact, to bad PMB couldn't say the same.

Sure my little bit of traffic won't be missed.

MightyMidget · 2007-09-11, 01:04 PM

Mostly I just feel sorry for Sheepguy. 10 years in the business and he still hasn't heard of proxies. He just goes straight in there, signs up 5 times in a row with the same IP and wait for that sweet cash. Doofus!

Oh, that was sarcasm by the way. But I sure do hope programs have more advanced anti-fraud protection than this, or you'll end up only catching the complete idots or the (as in this case) innocent.

LowryBigwood · 2007-09-11, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa

I now know that although on the surface it appeared like a clear case of webmaster fraud, there is now something else to take into consideration when investigating cases like this, something that was not, in my experience, an issue previously.

Wow. No kidding? Why did you not take Tommy's advise early on? Now you have really done a number on your program. Maybe you should think about a new position, I am not so sure public relations is what you should be doing over there. Just a thought and suggestion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa

I apologise unreservedly to Sheepguy for any distress my actions may have caused him.

It's a start, but you went way too far and will never see any traffic from my sites.

LowryBigwood · 2007-09-11, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MightyMidget

Mostly I just feel sorry for Sheepguy. 10 years in the business and he still hasn't heard of proxies. He just goes straight in there, signs up 5 times in a row with the same IP and wait for that sweet cash. Doofus!

Seriously... I wonder how many other programs follow a similiar anti-webmaster logic?

2007-09-09, 11:26 AM	#56
Simon That which does not kill us, will try, try again. Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Conch Republic Posts: 5,150	Hiya Lisa I know you've been in the business a long time, and you're following what you believe are the correct procedures as you deal with this issue. And I appreciate that you're continuing to talk with us here on the board about it. So I just want to suggest that you take a couple of steps back and consider viewing this thread from a completely different perspective. Try looking at it as suggestions being made by affiliates on how they wish an affiliate program would handle things when something like this happens. Sure, the tendency is always to set things up to protect against the many 'bad guys' who are constantly trying to find ways to steal from you or damage your program and/or its processing capabilities. But as someone who does run a program, I'm suggesting that a more personal approach to handling something like this could have a lot of value to you. We've found that most of the bad guys will go away once you contact them and tell them what you suspect, while the good guys will take objection to any such suspicion and go out of their way to prove their good intentions. The experienced bad guys have learned there's not enough profit in arguing after being identified, so they mostly just vanish. Of course you want to protect your processing, and there's no reason not to suspend an account while investigating. But the main idea is to contact the affiliate webmaster to let them know the account has been temporarily suspended because of suspicious activity. If a webmaster doesn't respond to repeated messages that all signups are being refunded (when applicable), you can pretty much assume that was a bad guy and cancel the account completely. There's definitely more than one way those transactions could have wound up being posted against a webmaster's affiliate account. And regardless of what your statistics may show, it's almost always better to give your affiliates the benefit of the doubt until you're really sure. Simon P.S. This post is meant to be taken as an 'in general' suggestion and not so much about the particular webmaster involved here. P.P.S. We do use cookies for tracking and the standard thing is that the most recent cookie overwrites the existing cookie if there is one. Our cookies last just under 9 months if nothing overwrites them. P.P.P.S. That said, I do want to add that I stand with everyone else here who's posted to say they don't believe SheepGuy would have done anything to defraud your or any other program. __________________ "If you're happy and you know it, think again." -- Guru Pitka Last edited by Simon; 2007-09-09 at 11:42 AM..

2007-09-09, 01:44 PM	#60
spacemanspiff Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Looz-e-anna Posts: 1,015	Whenever I'm looking at program and thinking of signing up, I usually come over here and do a search to see what experiences other folks have had with the program. Anyone else do the same? Anyone want to venture a guess how much Lisa has cost her company in the name of "protecting" it? __________________ Submit your free sites to Free Sex Pics

2007-09-10, 10:43 AM	#66
Tommy NYC Boy That Moved To The Island Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,940	Lisa it takes a big person to openly applogize like you just did your stock just went up a point or two in my book __________________ Accepting New partners

2007-09-11, 12:14 AM	#70
babymaker Someone Turn Off The Damn Heat! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: The Sewer....err.philly i mean Posts: 1,366	why are people being so nice in the last 3 or so posts?? WTF she was a bitch and overreacted so she appologized but who cares, this is how they do business, why be all nice just because she got cornered. Maybe she called someone bro and bought them a drink at a show lol __________________ *Get ElevatedX W/Hosting 99MO!*

2007-09-09, 07:23 AM	#52
Lisa I'm going to the backseat of my car with the woman I love, and I won't be back for TEN MINUTES Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 83	If they were attempting to breach site security, don't you think that perhaps they might have entered the members area at least once? Somehow I don't think that's it... And Toby, that is a known side effect of using cookies. It's one of the reasons some programs/webmasters prefer cookies and also one of the reasons that some dislike them intently. Their perceived benefits to some people are a perceived downfall to others.

2007-09-09, 11:41 AM	#57
koalaTalex A woman is like beer. They look good, they smell good, and you'd step over your own mother just to get one! Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 51	These threads are great! Not only for their entertainment value but more importantly because you learn which sponsors you don't want to sign up to or promote EVER! I can't even believe that a sponsor would just cancel an account as fraud without first contacting the webmaster involved! Un-fucking-believable! The cheaters do spoil things for the rest of us but we still expect sponsors to make an attempt to clear it up with the webmaster first. As tigermom says if the webmaster is a fraud he won't try to clear up his name. I can't believe that Lisa at Pornmegabucks has still not changed her position in this thread given all the webmasters that have stood up for Sheepguy and even Useless' Google research! Just think of all those potential pornmegabucks promoters that will go to the message boards to search about Porn Mega Bucks before signing up... not after reading this thread! A few months ago one of our main sponsors made a complete ass of himself here calling out a webmaster that as far as we could see didn't deserve that kind of treatment. Well we dropped that program immediately and I will never make another gallery or free site for his program nor will I ever actively promote it again. Sponsors need to have respect for us honest webmasters, we spend everyday promoting your smut and if something "fishy" happens with our affiliate account the least we deserve is an email before being canceled as a fraud!

2007-09-09, 11:46 AM	#58
GonZo You can now put whatever you want in this space :) Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Atlanta,Ga Posts: 893	DAMN!!!

2007-09-09, 12:03 PM	#59
Mr Spock You can now put whatever you want in this space :) Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Vulcan Posts: 695	The main problem here seems to me to be PornMegaBuck's attitude to affiliate webmasters, accusing a wm of fraud without any communication and secondly Lisa's arrogant attitude in addressing the issue here, she just doesn't get that their could have been a better way to deal with the matter. You say that you have seen this type of transaction 15 times in the past 6 years, which I don't think is that many given the volumes of transactions that are processed, so in general I think it is better to assume that the wm you are dealing with is honest. Guess what, I'll never sign up with this bunch of clowns and I am sure there are dozens of webmasters who feel the same way. Sheepguy is a respected and well liked webmaster and I don't believe that he would engage in fraudulent transactions.

2007-09-09, 09:03 PM	#61
Lisa I'm going to the backseat of my car with the woman I love, and I won't be back for TEN MINUTES Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 83	After further investigation, and consultation both with my boss and Paycom, we can find no evidence linking Sheepguy to the fraudulent signups put through under his reseller code. Tho the signups were most definitely fraudulent, it seems that it is possible that Sheepguy was in fact the unwitting victim of someone with a batch of stolen credit cards. Although I acted in good faith based on both the evidence before me, and my past experience with cases just like this, I accept that this time I got it very wrong. I now know that although on the surface it appeared like a clear case of webmaster fraud, there is now something else to take into consideration when investigating cases like this, something that was not, in my experience, an issue previously. I apologise unreservedly to Sheepguy for any distress my actions may have caused him. As a gesture of conciliation, when reinstating his account I have also raised his payout to 70%, an action I realise is most likely futile as he is unlikely to ever send us a hit again, however it has been done. Again, my wholehearted apology for the understandable distress this episode has caused.

2007-09-10, 01:14 PM	#68
Bobc01 Banned Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hell Posts: 817	I reckon he should atleast get a blowjob for the trouble. And if not, then i'd be happy to accept one on his behalf.

2007-09-11, 05:09 AM	#71
ecchi Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: About to be evicted!!!! Posts: 4,082	I agree it took guts (or more likely a yelling at from her boss) to apologise, but it does not alter the original situation. If I poked you in the eye with a sharp stick, then when you told everyone what I had done, I said "sorry" to you, would you be happy with me?

2007-09-11, 07:23 AM	#72
ronnie Wheither you think you can or you think you can't, Your right. Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: midwest Posts: 2,274	It's amazing this got drug out so far. Yes sheepguy brought it up, but it could have been and should have been taken into private conversation right away. The damage is done, little late now. Like ecchi said, sorry doesn't do a whole lot of good now. It's great sheepguys rep is in tact, to bad PMB couldn't say the same. Sure my little bit of traffic won't be missed.

2007-09-11, 01:04 PM	#73
MightyMidget No matter how good you are at something, there's always about a million people better than you Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 232	Mostly I just feel sorry for Sheepguy. 10 years in the business and he still hasn't heard of proxies. He just goes straight in there, signs up 5 times in a row with the same IP and wait for that sweet cash. Doofus! Oh, that was sarcasm by the way. But I sure do hope programs have more advanced anti-fraud protection than this, or you'll end up only catching the complete idots or the (as in this case) innocent.