Question for all

[retro]

Hi, I am new to this web site, but have been told this is the place to come to for answers to my questions. I am a filmmaker who has come into possession of a large collection of vintage porn films. The collection has nearly a thousand films and range in era from the 1920s-1960s. The films are in both color and black & white and are absolute hard core. The quality of the film images range from excellent to poor, but over 90% of the collection (approx. 800 films) has either an excellent or very good image quality. Likewise the collection's "scenarios" range from straight one on one sex through to full blown orgies-- and everything in between (early interracial, the occasional gangbang, 2 girls 1 guy, 2 guys 1 girl, etc.). Most of the films seem to be "amateur" in nature and each is approx. 12 min. in length.
I have transferred all films to high quality digital video and met with a copyright attorney and weeded out any films that may have potentially been a copyright liability.
AND NOW, I'm stuck.
I was hoping that someone may have opinions on how next to proceed with this project. I have been told that there is an expanding market for "classics" and that my options are: 1. Selling off collection to a company specializing in this area, or 2. Building out the business myself.
I have no idea if there is real money in this or not. Would anyone have any ball park guess as to the value of something like this? Is it better to sell off the collection or build out the business myself offering the films to sites as VOD and/or DVD? What are typical DVD sales figures or VOD download figures for this market?
Anyway, I'm lost and greatly appreciate any guidance or leads anyone may have on this project.
Also, in transferring to digital video, I made the image 4x3, does anyone have any thoughts regarding 16x9?
Thank you very much for any advice or tips anyone may have,
Christian

[Sean416]

I would say it depends on one thing, do you have the time and resources to turn it into a successful business, or would you rather do the short term cash in by selling it?

If you have the time to put into making, promoting and maintaining a pay site, then go for it. But its a long and bumpy road before you'll make it successful on your own.

If you have these videos and just want to make some money off of them, you could either sell them exclusively to one large company who might be interested in this niche or you could sell them non-exclusively to anyone and everyone who wants to buy them. Or a mix of both.

But the one thing that jumped out at me, is how did you get them? If they were amateur home made movies in the 1920's-1960's, do they have model releases? I am no expert and have no idea what the legalities of movies that old would be, but it would be something to look into before going any further.

[Certifiedbitch]

great to see you retro and welcome aboard!
take Sean's advice... and you'll be ok

[MikeHawk]

Hey Retro, we need to talk, we deal in the "classic market" our system is www.smashbucks.com and our no.1 site is www.pornstarclassics.com. We are ready to roll out Original Pornstars.com soon.

So it would be a great idea for us to talk, we have taken 1 inch masters and brought them to digital and the DRM technology. We would be very interested in entertaining several different options with you with your collection.

Best thing to do is please contact me thru"
email: mikehawk@smashbucks.com
icq: 159 659 940

Look forward to talking to you!

[Far-L]

Great feedback coming in already and so I will try my best to come up to the same level of usefullness.

The 2257 requirements would not apply to stuff shot that long ago, however, if there are instances of underage material then that would still and for all time be just as illegal to sell.

Speaking as a content provider, it is very hard to enter the market and I would personally go with someone that already has established themselves. It would be a long shot but perhaps you could get a royalty based arrangement.

Does not hurt to ask!

[amadman]

I would not give up ownership if I had it.

[Jel]

Hi retro,
Not sure if this would be a viable option, but you could lease the content rather than sell it? As time goes on I'd guess this would become more of a collectors item, and with some sort of lease you'd *probably* be guaranteed a long term income. If anything were to go tits up the content would still be yours to lease to another company.
Just a thought

[RawAlex]

retro, here is my take, for what it is worth:

Don't put it on the net yet.

if you have enough clips to make 90 minute or so DVDs, I would assemble the clips and produce some nice demo DVDs of the material. Make sure that it is labeled DEMO on the frames so they cannot be distributed. There is potential here for a series of DVDs based on this material, probably selling 1 or 2k each. There is a novelty angle here that could make it sell more than your average porn mill schlock release of the day.

Look for, and secure a domain name that can be used to brand this material. develop a site that promoted the material (but don't open a membership site or "feed" business yet).

Work your damndest to get your stuff out on DVD. While you won't make a TON of money, it will more than pay to get it all properly digitized, sorted, and ready for use.

After that, then you can look at web situations. It has some potential as a feed, as part of an exclusive member's area, or sold in parts. You would have to look at each of these business models to see which one gives you the best return for the amount of time you want to spend. Again, if the material has been released and branded on DVD, you will be able to get more money for it as a plug in online, and potential get more clients for it.

It's all up to you.

Alex

[Far-L]

RawAlex: I agree in part with what you are saying, but it is going to be hard to do those kind of numbers without having a wholesale distributor and that is a whole other hill to climb.

Distributors have seen this "vintage" stuff come around time and time again and the market for dvds is incredibly saturated as well. Even if a distributor takes them, then getting paid in a timely fashion is going to be tough... many distributors milk the desperation of producers to sell their stuff until the producer is ready to fire sale it to the distributor and walk away. Seen it happen time and time again.

Finding net distribution might be an easier way to go, but the brick and mortar folks are tough.

[RawAlex]

Far-L: i agree fully. You should never go down that road expecting it to be easy. Most distributors have way more product than they have places to put it, so only unique product has a hope. If you are deperate for money, don't go down this road, they will certainly smell you panic and sucker punch you will a lower price per unit, pay only on sold units, etc... if they pay at all.

However, as it all has to be digitzed anyway, it is worth the effort to shop it and see if anyone is biting. Either way, you will need it in good digital form to be able to move it to streams or whatever.

The more immediate money certain is online.

Alex

[GunnCat]

Originally posted by Sean416

But the one thing that jumped out at me, is how did you get them? If they were amateur home made movies in the 1920's-1960's, do they have model releases? I am no expert and have no idea what the legalities of movies that old would be, but it would be something to look into before going any further.

I am not an attorney, but I think this content doesn't fall under any 2257 laws. No contracts or age verification needed. Sounds to me like he has already met with an attorney and my guess is he has absolute rights to it, or I doubt he would have went to the trouble of having them converted.

[RawAlex]

Gunncat. there is a difference between 2257 age proof requirements and model releases. 2257 specifies only that you must be able to prove that the models are over 18, aand specifies, to a certain extent, how that is to be done.

model releases are documents that prove that the models have given you the right to use their image or likeness for this movie. You need these for almost anything commercial, adult, non-adult, etc., with the exception of "news" coverage and "public events".

Most content producers use a combined document, that is both a model release and also contains wording for proof of age.

Alex

[Lyndress]

Hi Christian! Told ya Greenguyandjim was the place to go. These peeps know what they're talking about. I really recommend speaking with Mike Hawk - he's a stellar guy and will give you sound advice, even though he thinks he super cool with all his tattoos. heeheee.

Good luck!

Lyndi

[retro]

Lyndi,

you were ABSOLUTELY right! Thank you very much. This has been a VERY helpful discussion.

Everyone's tips and advice have been EXCELLENT! I'm really happy I posted here.

Anyone who wishes to contact me directly at mrccn@aol.com is more than welcome.

Thanks again to all,
Christian

[GunnCat]

Originally posted by RawAlex
Gunncat. there is a difference between 2257 age proof requirements and model releases. 2257 specifies only that you must be able to prove that the models are over 18, aand specifies, to a certain extent, how that is to be done.

model releases are documents that prove that the models have given you the right to use their image or likeness for this movie. You need these for almost anything commercial, adult, non-adult, etc., with the exception of "news" coverage and "public events".

Most content producers use a combined document, that is both a model release and also contains wording for proof of age.

Alex

Alex, thanks for the info bro. I have a friend who owns a collectors store and has tons of magazines from the 50's 60's 70's (to the present day). Some pretty cool content. Thought about doing something with it, but I told him to check with his lawyer before I spent any time scanning the magazines!

[MikeHawk]

Originally posted by Lyndress
Hi Christian! Told ya Greenguyandjim was the place to go. These peeps know what they're talking about. I really recommend speaking with Mike Hawk - he's a stellar guy and will give you sound advice, even though he thinks he super cool with all his tattoos. heeheee.

Good luck!

Lyndi

Awwww Lyndi, you are so great, how is that baby doing? I was going to call you today and check up on you....hope you are doing great!

Also thanks for the kind words...!