Grand opening, Grand closing. Why don't sponsors last?

[RedShoe]

Why do sponsors come and go?

~~~~~~A brief history about me~~~~~~~
If you didn't know, I started working for a major sponsor back when it was just me working there. I was there from the beginning and watched it grow from one site, into the multi site giant that it is today.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now as I sit here growing my own little empire. I can really only benchmark myself (on a smaller scale) against them.

What I want to know is why do sponsors come and go? Like StupidCash for example. I don't know all the details, but wasn't that run by several strong webmasters? What happened?

How can I avoid those pitfalls?

One of the things I'm doing is keeping the affiliate program really small so I can still manage it all. I remember at a company I used to work for, there were times when it seemed like chaos. We'd be praised on one board, slammed on another, affiliates would try to scam you, members share passwords, hype the sites and they sell like hotcakes. chaos. But it worked. And it fuckin' worked well.

So then how do sponsors go under? If it happens alot, there must be a common factor. How do I learn from their mistakes? How do I succeed where others have failed? I already rode one company from rags to riches. I know some formulas and secrets. But what I don't know is how to fail. And you must know how to fail to avoid it. To succeed, you must fail at failing.

List a sponsor that closed and list why it closed. I'll give you a hearty handshake when I meet you.

....Oh, and how do I get Linkster into my affiliate program?

[Chop Smith]

http://greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?t=25603

[RedShoe]

Thank you sir.

[xxxjay]

There is a lot of truth to that. One of the fundamental problems these days is that back a few years ago webmasters were mostly building galleries, opening linklists, or starting tgps. Now NATS has come along, and every webmaster that can afford $600 a month is starting their own program. I have personally told Albright that he should make NATS cost “a bazzilion dollars” so there wouldn’t be some lame program popping up every five seconds.

I would have never, I repeat never, would have gotten into the program business if it hadn’t been for the exclusive deal OCCash has with Evasive Angles. That is our competitive edge. The profit margins are MUCH higher when you are sending traffic to a program than trying to become one (I know because I am on both side of it). As an individual webmaster, you have your bandwidth costs (maybe an employee) and that’s about it. When you are running a program you have to think about REALLY BIG BANDWIDTH COSTS, a larger staff, advertising, content costs, software, and about a bazillion (there’s that word again) other things -- it takes a lot longer to become profitable, if you can become profitable at all.

You should really think carefully before starting a program. Most will fail – it’s like becoming a rockstar or an actor, just less fun.

[Allfetish]

I think a lot of it is just like many other businesses: People try to grow way to quickly and they overextend themselves. They get way too optimistic and when revenues are much lower than expected, they fall. Many others would simply call this undercapitalization. I do not however, because it is my belief that in this industry you should be able to profit with a very very small investment. You can't simply throw money at problems and continue taking losses. You must change something. ASAP

[Shag At Sea]

Originally Posted by Allfetish

I think a lot of it is just like many other businesses: People try to grow way to quickly and they overextend themselves. They get way too optimistic and when revenues are much lower than expected, they fall. Many others would simply call this undercapitalization. I do not however, because it is my belief that in this industry you should be able to profit with a very very small investment. You can't simply throw money at problems and continue taking losses. You must change something. ASAP

bang on!

i would add that the big guys like ND and TB aren't made over night, so don't shoot for that level right off the bat.

[DJilla]

Originally Posted by xxxjay

Now NATS has come along, and every webmaster that can afford $600 a month is starting their own program. I have personally told Albright that he should make NATS cost “a bazzilion dollars” so there wouldn’t be some lame program popping up every five seconds.

SO TRUE! That is fabulous program software that is way underpriced

Originally Posted by xxxjay

I would have never, I repeat never, would have gotten into the program business if it hadn’t been for the exclusive deal OCCash has with Evasive Angles. That is our competitive edge. The profit margins are MUCH higher when you are sending traffic to a program than trying to become one.

Brilliant, just brilliant. I was so damned jealous when I saw the moves you were making and was sick that I hadn't gotten into this years before. Because it's sooooo much harder if not downright impossible to repeat the environment you created for yourself to make this happen. Great move!

What I never saw answered over at the "What Makes A Paysite Go Choke" thread that I'm still scratching my head over is why when a program goes under is it not immediately snapped up by somebody else as a bigger partnership or on a distress sale? If content is king then I would think that these are priceless assets gone to waste speak nothing of the affiliate net that's developed.

For all those out there thinking of getting out and if you're paperwork is in order, please holler at me cause I want to get in. I can't write a personal check but am in contact with people who can and were discussing it seriously for 06!

[Elias]

Sponsors are a lot like relationships in a certain way... either easy come easy go or steady and prolific.

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by xxxjay

he should make NATS cost “a bazzilion dollars” so there wouldn’t be some lame program popping up every five seconds.

that really wouldn't be smart.
if it cost a bazillion dollars and didn't need to. you could just hire a programmer and say copy this or write something that does this and sell it for a reasonable price and Nat's would be out of business

also would nats make more money being sold to a handfull of customers or thousands of customers


I don't wanna sell insulting but it sort of sounds like you just don't want any competition:-)

[Tommy]

and there's a zillion reasons why they come and go
Pussy, Drugs, Alcohol, Religion, Laziness, Stupidity, Family, Prison

[RawAlex]

One of the most common things I have seen is programs with great tours, very little content inside the sites. It was a real trend a few years ago for companies to turn out piles and piles of "niche sites" that had only a very little bit of content for the niche, and shared content with the 100+ other sites by the same program. At the end of the day, surfers figure out they are getting fucked, the programs don't retain.

Retention is one of the keys to the game, double so for programs that use the PPS model. However, even in partnership arrangements, if the sites don't retain, the webmasters sending the traffic don't make enough per click, and they will move their traffic elsewhere.

Quite simply, if you have no steak, just sizzle... people will stay hungry and look somewhere else.

Alex

[Ramster]

Originally Posted by Tommy

and there's a zillion reasons why they come and go
Pussy, Drugs, Alcohol, Religion, Laziness, Stupidity, Family, Prison

That just about sums it up.

[becky]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

One of the most common things I have seen is programs with great tours, very little content inside the sites. It was a real trend a few years ago for companies to turn out piles and piles of "niche sites" that had only a very little bit of content for the niche, and shared content with the 100+ other sites by the same program. At the end of the day, surfers figure out they are getting fucked, the programs don't retain.

Retention is one of the keys to the game, double so for programs that use the PPS model. However, even in partnership arrangements, if the sites don't retain, the webmasters sending the traffic don't make enough per click, and they will move their traffic elsewhere.

Quite simply, if you have no steak, just sizzle... people will stay hungry and look somewhere else.

Alex

I agree with you on this 100%. If you don't offer a quality product for the members, the rest will fall apart. The membership base is the foundation upon which the rest of the business is built. If you don't have a solid foundation, i.e. you provide an excellent product that retains members and thus increases your per member value, the rest of your business is going to fail. It's the money your members give you that pays the bills. Most affiliate programs make the mistake of working too hard to win affiliates and their traffic and not hard enough to earn and retain members.

I also think that programs that aren't a bit more selective with affiliates are working against themselves and their longevity in business. There is such a thing as bad affiliates and bad traffic and if you get enough of both, you can really affect the value of your membership base.

[emmanuelle]

Coz everybody and their brother thinks that it's easy to run a paysite.

[gobgook2]

I've even had an affiliate manager tell me (in the course of doing some paysite reviews) that they've left sites un-updated but still sell them as live sites, and started new sites simply because "affiliates want *new* sites to promote".

No... we want DECENT sites to promote LOL Ones that convert AND update (retain). I've reviewed SO MANY sites that don't say in either the tour or the members area how often they update, how much content you get for your membership, and then get inside to find 20 x 15 minute videos and tons of shitty blurry video captures posing as "pictures". Next! And they're usually GREAT site concepts, just poor followthrough. Like you've said, I can't imagine what little does convert would actually retain for very long...

[Elias]

Often someone comes up with an idea, rides it while it's hot and then goes for another one leaving the first one without care. Those left still earn money for a certain period of time and then finally get completely abandoned while the new fresh ones are in the middle of their popularity. It's a naturel process.

[Useless]

I have a 2 or 3 free sites out there floating in the ether that have the content from one of those "here today, fuck you tomorrow" sponsors - Pimp Dust (they now claim to be invitation only. the paysites are still around, but my links are dead). When a surfer clicks the ads, they literally get nothing. http://join.247pass.com/track/MTA5OjQ6MTI/ What am I supposed to do with that shit? Rotten motherfuckers.

[Chop Smith]

Got to love that linking code. Perhaps they are trying to cover the lease fee for their affiliate software.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Chop Smith

Got to love that linking code. Perhaps they are trying to cover the lease fee for their affiliate software.

Ya know, anyone with a spare $600 per month can start a program...

[Chop Smith]

Rant: You know this business is full of egotistical pricks. You never know who will grow up and be big one day.

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Ya know, anyone with a spare $600 per month can start a program...

Actually, I think you can get a plan for $150. Seems like that is for < 300 signups per month.

I qualify

[becky]

Originally Posted by Elias

Often someone comes up with an idea, rides it while it's hot and then goes for another one leaving the first one without care. Those left still earn money for a certain period of time and then finally get completely abandoned while the new fresh ones are in the middle of their popularity. It's a naturel process.

What about refreshing ones that sell with a new design that reflects the style of what is working at the time? You don't always have to abandon and start new. Think of the products you use from the store, most get a redesigned wrapper every so often, but they're still the same product they were 20 years ago. Adopting this kind of focus on product rather than wrapper will definitely help increase longevity for paysites.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Chop Smith

Rant: You know this business is full of egotistical pricks. You never know who will grow up and be big one day.

I have absolutely no idea who you could possibly be talking about.

Why the fuck isn't there a Hear No Evil, See No Evil, Speak No Evil smilie?
|pissright |pissleft|

[RawAlex]

I want to add to the discussion that the market for content has certainly changed this year with the new 2257 regulations, and I have a feeling that some more niche oriented sites might be having a hard time getting content at a price point they can handle, and without updates, the conversions and retentions drop.

Alex

[Elias]

Originally Posted by becky

What about refreshing ones that sell with a new design that reflects the style of what is working at the time? You don't always have to abandon and start new. Think of the products you use from the store, most get a redesigned wrapper every so often, but they're still the same product they were 20 years ago. Adopting this kind of focus on product rather than wrapper will definitely help increase longevity for paysites.

I'd rather use PCs as a comparision - the old ones sell and resell, but the newest ones make the most money. You can upgrade a PC to make it worthy again, but just repainting it doesn't help and changing the whole design of a paysite looks more like an upgrade than just repainting.

[becky]

Originally Posted by Elias

I'd rather use PCs as a comparision - the old ones sell and resell, but the newest ones make the most money. You can upgrade a PC to make it worthy again, but just repainting it doesn't help and changing the whole design of a paysite looks more like an upgrade than just repainting.

LOL comparing computer technology to pornography is like comparing apples to oranges.