Someone using my web-page

kalle7 · 2005-10-24, 11:09 AM

Hi all,
I have a website that I am working on http://www.tanyaonweb.com/main/ and suddenly I see a strange thing in my stats. When I check it out I find this site: http://www.karadavis.com/movies/tanya_tarasof/

It seems like someone has take my page and uploaded it on their own server. Dont understand why they have done so.

Does anyone have any ideas of why someone would do this?

Thanks

Bunnyhop · 2005-10-24, 11:58 AM

Only thing I can think of would be to use the page as a method of getting listed in the SEs under similar search terms and then once spidered redirecting the incoming traffic elsewhere...more or less a way of hijacking SE spots close to your site's.

That's a pretty farfetched theory though, just the only one I could think of =)

emmanuelle · 2005-10-24, 12:05 PM

We're finding more & more affiliates doing this lately. I can't say that I'm a fan, since I am of the mind that affiliate sales should be earned, not stolen; but that's just me.

kalle7 · 2005-10-24, 12:36 PM

Thanks Bunnyhop and Emmanuelle.

Yeah, I dont get this either. And it is not an affiliate either I think and they use even my sign up page: http://www.karadavis.com/movies/tanya_tarasof/ and there is no affiliate link in the sign up page.

I think I will make an complaint to CCBill, their hosting company and other places. This gotta be misusing my copyrighted design and images so I gotta do something about it.

Chop Smith · 2005-10-24, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalle7

Does anyone have any ideas of why someone would do this?

Being really careful to get this right. They are lazy, no-good thieving COCKSUCKERS.

kalle7 · 2005-10-24, 01:24 PM

Just sent an complaint to CCBill leagal department as this karadavis.com is also a CCBill client with screen shots and all information. Will see what happens.

kalle7 · 2005-10-24, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chop Smith

Being really careful to get this right. They are lazy, no-good thieving COCKSUCKERS.

Yeah, that is exactly how I feel about it also

emmanuelle · 2005-10-24, 02:36 PM

Did you email Kara Davis? I have always hesitated with pursuing these things, because they do send us a lot of traffic and affiliate sales, despite the fact that I hate their methods.

Bunnyhop · 2005-10-24, 02:40 PM

The fact Kalle's perps aren't using any affiliate codes and what not makes it all seem highly suspicious (or they're incredibly dumb). I kind of agree with Emmanuelle though, there may be no malicious intent involved and might be worth speaking with the site owners directly first.

emmanuelle · 2005-10-24, 03:10 PM

I am curious what other people here think of these tactics. Let's pretend that there is an affiliate code in those links. Is it considered okay to steal search engine traffic in this manner? Where is the line drawn?

Bunnyhop · 2005-10-24, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

I am curious what other people here think of these tactics. Let's pretend that there is an affiliate code in those links. Is it considered okay to steal search engine traffic in this manner? Where is the line drawn?

Tough question...on one hand I could feel that well since I'm listed there then the traffic would just be going to my site directly anyways...so why should I pay out to an affiliate for a sale I could have gotten directly anyways?

But on the other hand...that individual might be getting indexed on other keywords, in better (or at least different) positions or more SEs and overall increasing the exposure to my site. In addition with him linking to all my pages will improve my PR rankings (not a great deal of improvement, but something to consider)...especially if he does it on multiple domains. So the increased exposure might be worth it.

ecchi · 2005-10-24, 03:24 PM

Personally I would have spoken to them first, they may think they are being helpful, or maybe about to sign up as an affiliate, so you do not want to piss them off yet. However it is also probable that they have some nefarious purpose so you have got to keep an eye on them as well.

Remember, if they are honest and either being helpful or stupid, a letter to CCBill or their host may cause them to badmouth you everywhere and however honest you are, shit sticks, so you will loose members and affiliates, and thus loose money if they badmouth you. However you should defiantly keep a close eye on them.

There is a Scottish saying "Trust everyone, but always count the change".

kalle7 · 2005-10-24, 03:25 PM

I have not e-mailed Kara Davis about this cause it all seems a bit strange to me the hole situation. I don't see any affiliate code beeing used and it is also on a domain that is their own paysite. I really don't like that.

And when I look at the affiliate information that they sign up with I find another sponsor program: http://www.hundies.com/. They signed up in april this year and have not sendt any traffic or sales so all in all I don't like what I see.

I also feel that they should e-mail me before and ask permission to do this and that I should not be chasing them to get an explanation. If affiliates or other persons acting like affiliates will do anything they want it will be a very bad situation. There are rules to be followed and it would have been very easy for them to do this the correct way. I hope that I don't sound like I don't appriciate what my affiliates do, but some rules we gotta have and follow

ecchi · 2005-10-24, 03:48 PM

What you say is fair and reasonable, but the point I was making is that even so, it won't be much of a consolation to you if they start posting on surfer boards not to sign up to your site and on WM boards not to use your affiliate program.

Besides although not even trying to speak to them before reporting them is "fair and reasonable", but it is also a shitty thing to do.

kalle7 · 2005-10-24, 04:09 PM

Based on your suggestions I have decided to contact them and ask for an explanation about this and will put the "report" on hold for the moment until I see what intentions they have. But I still dont like it lol

SirMoby · 2005-10-24, 04:12 PM

Stealing someone's work is stealing. I've had a lot of my work stolen and there has never been a good excuse for it.

Send them a note and wait 48 hours. I've found most people will change things quickly once they're busted. You don't want to make enemies but let's be real here. It appears this web site stole his work.

I've had affiliates steal work from others and I do ask them to change it. I'm making one change his site right now for stealing someone elses work and content. I don't do business that way and I won't accept sales from this method either.

kalle7 · 2005-10-24, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirMoby

Stealing someone's work is stealing. I've had a lot of my work stolen and there has never been a good excuse for it.

Send them a note and wait 48 hours. I've found most people will change things quickly once they're busted. You don't want to make enemies but let's be real here. It appears this web site stole his work.

I've had affiliates steal work from others and I do ask them to change it. I'm making one change his site right now for stealing someone elses work and content. I don't do business that way and I won't accept sales from this method either.

I gotta agree with you cause I really have the feeling of this not beeing the right way to do business. I have just sent them the e-mail and will give them 48 hours to reply on it.

emmanuelle · 2005-10-24, 04:25 PM

I believe that your pages are being called within a frameset. In this case there is no copyright issue, but there is a problem with join pages being called within their frameset.

You can see by clicking through the join link to ccbill's server. The kara davis domain is still in the address bar

kalle7 · 2005-10-24, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

I believe that your pages are being called within a frameset. In this case there is no copyright issue, but there is a problem with join pages being called within their frameset.

You can see by clicking through the join link to ccbill's server. The kara davis domain is still in the address bar

Ah ok. Yeah, I see that now. But I think it is still not good and will make a rule about this on my affiliate program. Don't want to have this kind of promotion in the future.

Thanks

emmanuelle · 2005-10-24, 04:34 PM

I hope that I am not hijacking kalle's thread, but this is an issue that has bothered me for some time.
Which of these methods are considered 'acceptable' and why?

1. brutusblack.thebestporn.com/ (this site was not reviewed, however has the #1 google listing)

2. brutusblack.pornreporters.com/
(not only "reviewed" without our blessing, but erroneous information and content stolen from our member area)

3. www.karadavis.com/movies/emmas_balloons/ - the same issue as kalle's, they are pulling my tour within their frameset

4. www.pornresource.com/videos/brutus_black/
the same system as karadavis is using.

Are these generally accepted industry practices? Do site owners have the right to forbid affiliates from these tactics? Should they even want to? Or is it simply a courtesy not given? Is a paysite owner's only recourse to have their own SE guru on staff, or trademark their domains? Truthfully I've never been certain whether or not I should be allowed to feel annoyed by these things; which is why I'd like to hear other's opinions.

kalle7 · 2005-10-24, 04:43 PM

Feel free to post Emmanuelle

urb · 2005-10-24, 04:51 PM

Try this code to break out of their frameset...
http://www.thesitewizard.com/archive/framebreak.shtml

I didn't read this thread in detail coz I gotta run, but it may help.

GenXer · 2005-10-24, 06:13 PM

Well, I'm sorry to hear about this. I don't see what incentive they would have doing it since they don't have any aff. codes in there, so it's really weird to me. I would have tried emailing her at first as well.

ecchi · 2005-10-24, 06:45 PM

Firstly congratulations to emmanuelle for noticing it was in a frame, give the lady a cigar. I (and most of us) should have realised that too, so we all deserve a kick in the ass for not doing so.

However that gets me really confused, because I can see no benefit they could get from this, nor can I see any way they can use this to their advantage later. I really hope you (kalle7) get an answer from them, and when (if) you do, please post and let us know what it is, because I can think of no reason other than they are friends of yours trying to help you out that they would do this.

ecchi · 2005-10-24, 07:03 PM

I just did a whois lookup, and it appears to me that this domain was used for a similar site to yours but has now shut down. Three possibilities occur to me:

1. Have you ever paid a traffic company for hits? Because a lot of them buy or rent expired domains and put the client's site in a frame in these domains. In other words, if you have paid for traffic, this might be what you have paid for.

2. They may be planning to open another similar site soon and do not want the domain to look closed, so are putting your site on their domain as a temporary stop gap. If that is the case then you are effectively getting what I said in point (1) but not paying for it, so quit moaning and start getting grateful. It is free traffic and the domain is reasonably well ranked so you are lucky.

3. The same scenario as (2) but for a different reason. They may have closed down and run off and have put your site up so it looks like they are still there (kind of the Internet equivalent of shops who put up a notice saying "Closed for refit, reopen next month" then do a runner owing rent etc.). This could be a little more worrying, but I cannot see how you can ever be held accountable for their debts, and their dissatisfied customers will still want a "Russian Girl" type site, so some of them will probably sign up for your site, so you will get a few sales out of this.

Bottom line I spent about a month writing a script that searches out good expired domains, and I spend a lot of money buying them when it finds them. I then put gateway pages to my existing sites on them. This is exactly the same as you got here (except that for SE reasons I don't use frames), but I spend time and money doing it. You got it for free. Now obviously you want to keep an eye on them in case they are going to start doing something dishonest, but until then enjoy the freebie. You are like the guy who moans about all the $50 notes in his wallet taking up too much space.

(A couple of other point occurred to me after I posted this, but rather than edit this post and confuse people who had already read it, I have posted them as new posts after this one.)

2005-10-24, 11:58 AM	#2
Bunnyhop Lord help me, I'm just not that bright Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 106	Only thing I can think of would be to use the page as a method of getting listed in the SEs under similar search terms and then once spidered redirecting the incoming traffic elsewhere...more or less a way of hijacking SE spots close to your site's. That's a pretty farfetched theory though, just the only one I could think of =) __________________ Find out what TGPs are listing your galleries

2005-10-24, 02:40 PM	#9
Bunnyhop Lord help me, I'm just not that bright Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 106	The fact Kalle's perps aren't using any affiliate codes and what not makes it all seem highly suspicious (or they're incredibly dumb). I kind of agree with Emmanuelle though, there may be no malicious intent involved and might be worth speaking with the site owners directly first. __________________ Find out what TGPs are listing your galleries Last edited by Bunnyhop; 2005-10-24 at 02:41 PM.. Reason: Dyslexic typing

2005-10-24, 04:51 PM	#22
urb All the way from Room 101 Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 3,557	Try this code to break out of their frameset... http://www.thesitewizard.com/archive/framebreak.shtml I didn't read this thread in detail coz I gotta run, but it may help. __________________

2005-10-24, 06:13 PM	#23
GenXer Are you sure this is the Sci-Fi Convention? It's full of nerds! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The U.S.A Posts: 267	Well, I'm sorry to hear about this. I don't see what incentive they would have doing it since they don't have any aff. codes in there, so it's really weird to me. I would have tried emailing her at first as well. __________________ Top Adult Writing Services icq 375-089-597

2005-10-24, 11:09 AM	#1
kalle7 Hey, can you take the wheel for a second, I have to scratch my self in two places at once Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Here and there... Posts: 182	Someone using my web-page Hi all, I have a website that I am working on http://www.tanyaonweb.com/main/ and suddenly I see a strange thing in my stats. When I check it out I find this site: http://www.karadavis.com/movies/tanya_tarasof/ It seems like someone has take my page and uploaded it on their own server. Dont understand why they have done so. Does anyone have any ideas of why someone would do this? Thanks

2005-10-24, 12:05 PM	#3
emmanuelle 0100011101100101011001010 1101011001000000100001101 1010000110100101100011 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,441	We're finding more & more affiliates doing this lately. I can't say that I'm a fan, since I am of the mind that affiliate sales should be earned, not stolen; but that's just me.

2005-10-24, 12:36 PM	#4
kalle7 Hey, can you take the wheel for a second, I have to scratch my self in two places at once Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Here and there... Posts: 182	Thanks Bunnyhop and Emmanuelle. Yeah, I dont get this either. And it is not an affiliate either I think and they use even my sign up page: http://www.karadavis.com/movies/tanya_tarasof/ and there is no affiliate link in the sign up page. I think I will make an complaint to CCBill, their hosting company and other places. This gotta be misusing my copyrighted design and images so I gotta do something about it.

2005-10-24, 01:24 PM	#6
kalle7 Hey, can you take the wheel for a second, I have to scratch my self in two places at once Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Here and there... Posts: 182	Just sent an complaint to CCBill leagal department as this karadavis.com is also a CCBill client with screen shots and all information. Will see what happens.

2005-10-24, 02:36 PM	#8
emmanuelle 0100011101100101011001010 1101011001000000100001101 1010000110100101100011 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,441	Did you email Kara Davis? I have always hesitated with pursuing these things, because they do send us a lot of traffic and affiliate sales, despite the fact that I hate their methods.

2005-10-24, 03:10 PM	#10
emmanuelle 0100011101100101011001010 1101011001000000100001101 1010000110100101100011 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,441	I am curious what other people here think of these tactics. Let's pretend that there is an affiliate code in those links. Is it considered okay to steal search engine traffic in this manner? Where is the line drawn?

2005-10-24, 03:24 PM	#12
ecchi Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: About to be evicted!!!! Posts: 4,082	Personally I would have spoken to them first, they may think they are being helpful, or maybe about to sign up as an affiliate, so you do not want to piss them off yet. However it is also probable that they have some nefarious purpose so you have got to keep an eye on them as well. Remember, if they are honest and either being helpful or stupid, a letter to CCBill or their host may cause them to badmouth you everywhere and however honest you are, shit sticks, so you will loose members and affiliates, and thus loose money if they badmouth you. However you should defiantly keep a close eye on them. There is a Scottish saying "Trust everyone, but always count the change".

2005-10-24, 03:25 PM	#13
kalle7 Hey, can you take the wheel for a second, I have to scratch my self in two places at once Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Here and there... Posts: 182	I have not e-mailed Kara Davis about this cause it all seems a bit strange to me the hole situation. I don't see any affiliate code beeing used and it is also on a domain that is their own paysite. I really don't like that. And when I look at the affiliate information that they sign up with I find another sponsor program: http://www.hundies.com/. They signed up in april this year and have not sendt any traffic or sales so all in all I don't like what I see. I also feel that they should e-mail me before and ask permission to do this and that I should not be chasing them to get an explanation. If affiliates or other persons acting like affiliates will do anything they want it will be a very bad situation. There are rules to be followed and it would have been very easy for them to do this the correct way. I hope that I don't sound like I don't appriciate what my affiliates do, but some rules we gotta have and follow

2005-10-24, 03:48 PM	#14
ecchi Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: About to be evicted!!!! Posts: 4,082	What you say is fair and reasonable, but the point I was making is that even so, it won't be much of a consolation to you if they start posting on surfer boards not to sign up to your site and on WM boards not to use your affiliate program. Besides although not even trying to speak to them before reporting them is "fair and reasonable", but it is also a shitty thing to do.

2005-10-24, 04:09 PM	#15
kalle7 Hey, can you take the wheel for a second, I have to scratch my self in two places at once Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Here and there... Posts: 182	Based on your suggestions I have decided to contact them and ask for an explanation about this and will put the "report" on hold for the moment until I see what intentions they have. But I still dont like it lol

2005-10-24, 04:12 PM	#16
SirMoby Jim? I heard he's a dirty pornographer. Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 2,706	Stealing someone's work is stealing. I've had a lot of my work stolen and there has never been a good excuse for it. Send them a note and wait 48 hours. I've found most people will change things quickly once they're busted. You don't want to make enemies but let's be real here. It appears this web site stole his work. I've had affiliates steal work from others and I do ask them to change it. I'm making one change his site right now for stealing someone elses work and content. I don't do business that way and I won't accept sales from this method either.

2005-10-24, 04:25 PM	#18
emmanuelle 0100011101100101011001010 1101011001000000100001101 1010000110100101100011 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,441	I believe that your pages are being called within a frameset. In this case there is no copyright issue, but there is a problem with join pages being called within their frameset. You can see by clicking through the join link to ccbill's server. The kara davis domain is still in the address bar

2005-10-24, 04:34 PM	#20
emmanuelle 0100011101100101011001010 1101011001000000100001101 1010000110100101100011 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,441	I hope that I am not hijacking kalle's thread, but this is an issue that has bothered me for some time. Which of these methods are considered 'acceptable' and why? 1. brutusblack.thebestporn.com/ (this site was not reviewed, however has the #1 google listing) 2. brutusblack.pornreporters.com/ (not only "reviewed" without our blessing, but erroneous information and content stolen from our member area) 3. www.karadavis.com/movies/emmas_balloons/ - the same issue as kalle's, they are pulling my tour within their frameset 4. www.pornresource.com/videos/brutus_black/ the same system as karadavis is using. Are these generally accepted industry practices? Do site owners have the right to forbid affiliates from these tactics? Should they even want to? Or is it simply a courtesy not given? Is a paysite owner's only recourse to have their own SE guru on staff, or trademark their domains? Truthfully I've never been certain whether or not I should be allowed to feel annoyed by these things; which is why I'd like to hear other's opinions.

2005-10-24, 04:43 PM	#21
kalle7 Hey, can you take the wheel for a second, I have to scratch my self in two places at once Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Here and there... Posts: 182	Feel free to post Emmanuelle

2005-10-24, 06:45 PM	#24
ecchi Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: About to be evicted!!!! Posts: 4,082	Firstly congratulations to emmanuelle for noticing it was in a frame, give the lady a cigar. I (and most of us) should have realised that too, so we all deserve a kick in the ass for not doing so. However that gets me really confused, because I can see no benefit they could get from this, nor can I see any way they can use this to their advantage later. I really hope you (kalle7) get an answer from them, and when (if) you do, please post and let us know what it is, because I can think of no reason other than they are friends of yours trying to help you out that they would do this.

2005-10-24, 07:03 PM	#25
ecchi Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: About to be evicted!!!! Posts: 4,082	I just did a whois lookup, and it appears to me that this domain was used for a similar site to yours but has now shut down. Three possibilities occur to me: 1. Have you ever paid a traffic company for hits? Because a lot of them buy or rent expired domains and put the client's site in a frame in these domains. In other words, if you have paid for traffic, this might be what you have paid for. 2. They may be planning to open another similar site soon and do not want the domain to look closed, so are putting your site on their domain as a temporary stop gap. If that is the case then you are effectively getting what I said in point (1) but not paying for it, so quit moaning and start getting grateful. It is free traffic and the domain is reasonably well ranked so you are lucky. 3. The same scenario as (2) but for a different reason. They may have closed down and run off and have put your site up so it looks like they are still there (kind of the Internet equivalent of shops who put up a notice saying "Closed for refit, reopen next month" then do a runner owing rent etc.). This could be a little more worrying, but I cannot see how you can ever be held accountable for their debts, and their dissatisfied customers will still want a "Russian Girl" type site, so some of them will probably sign up for your site, so you will get a few sales out of this. Bottom line I spent about a month writing a script that searches out good expired domains, and I spend a lot of money buying them when it finds them. I then put gateway pages to my existing sites on them. This is exactly the same as you got here (except that for SE reasons I don't use frames), but I spend time and money doing it. You got it for free. Now obviously you want to keep an eye on them in case they are going to start doing something dishonest, but until then enjoy the freebie. You are like the guy who moans about all the $50 notes in his wallet taking up too much space. (A couple of other point occurred to me after I posted this, but rather than edit this post and confuse people who had already read it, I have posted them as new posts after this one.)