The ccbill scrub

[Jel]

I never realised just how many sales I could be losing everytime ccbill set their scrub into overdrive...

I have a sponsor that recently switched to VXS billing, and man oh man the figures are eye opening for sure. I still have links to change, but how's this for October:

CC Bill -
Uniques 7849
Sales 3
Ratio 1:2616

VXS Billing -
Uniques 6586
Sales 18
Ratio 1:366

This is just one program, the others in their portfolio have been converting just as 'better', although the traffic numbers aren't really high enough to post and do an honest comparison. Looking through the other programs I use that process with ccbill I see amazingly high ratios of 1:2250, 1:2080, 1:1700 and so on, when I *know* I convert way better than that with those programs.

How can there be such a major major jump like that? I know a certain amount of measures need to be put in place, but fuck, really? I'm getting caned on ccbill sponsors this month and it sucks, but hey, there's swings and roundabouts as we all know, but when I see proof like that it makes me wanna cry!

I'd love to hear from a ccbill rep when and why they seem to have their scrub set so hard, isn't it ultimately costing themselves money also?

[emmanuelle]

As a paysite owner, I have no issue with ccbill's scrubbing. The scrubbing is for a good reason; to weed out fraud (and therefore chargebacks). Chargebacks really p*** me off. Finally, since it is ccbill's merchant account that I am using, I want them to do everything they need to, to manage their own chargeback average. I don't want them going under because of scamming surfers.

[Sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

As a paysite owner, I have no issue with ccbill's scrubbing. The scrubbing is for a good reason; to weed out fraud (and therefore chargebacks). Chargebacks really p*** me off. Finally, since it is ccbill's merchant account that I am using, I want them to do everything they need to, to manage their own chargeback average. I don't want them going under because of scamming surfers.

That's pretty much exactly correct. If a merchant is using their own merchant account through a PSP like VXS, then they are free to blow it up with too many chargebacks. If CCBill allows too many chargebacks and the IPSP master merchant account goes down... then EVERYBODY that is using CCBill will go down.

[Sperbonzo]

In Fact, the hard scrubbing is on the reasons why CCbill is such a reliable, solid option for third party processing. IMO

[koolkat]

The only thing I have noticed about ccBill which is frustrating is that sometime they decline a transaction only to approve the same credit card 2 minutes later when the person reruns it with the same info. I have probably lost quite a few joins because the person never retried!

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

As a paysite owner, I have no issue with ccbill's scrubbing. The scrubbing is for a good reason; to weed out fraud (and therefore chargebacks). Chargebacks really p*** me off. Finally, since it is ccbill's merchant account that I am using, I want them to do everything they need to, to manage their own chargeback average. I don't want them going under because of scamming surfers.

what about those who sign up with perfectly legit cards with perfect credit and still get declinded? for sure its happening as i've tested it myself at a couple places (tho not ccbill).

i think if ccbill really wants people to stop bitching about scrubbing they need to let affiliates see when a card is declinded. someone could think they are getting 10-20 declines a day and blame the scrub but in reality could only be 1-2 and just isn't promoting properly or has poor traffic. personally i find the big sites that use ccbill still convert well.

[Jel]

I hear you on the need for a level of scrubbing, but those numbers make me think - wtf? Agreed BlackCrayon, that would be a good thing for ccbill to show. I've tried myself to join a few sites via ccbill, both my cc's were declined every time

[xxxjay]

The was the old processor for Triple X Cash that didn't scrub anything...I used to love sending traffic to them then becasue the conversions kicked ass...only problem, they accepted every sale that looked like a valid 16 digit number and went under.

Paycom and CCBill scrub for a reason. They are the only 2 CC processors I feel confident with. If you are happy with the lightened scrub from the new company -- beware, it may come and bite you in the ass at some point.

[Kenny B!]

I understand why CCBill has to scrub like they do, what gets me are the amount of failed rebills attempts, are they scrubbing rebills too?

[corvett]

hello, this is mark from ccbill, i happen to know a bit about how our fraud scrubbing works, to answer one of the questions posed above, rebills are not scrubbed, only initial transactions...if a rebill does not go though, it is normally because the bank will not allow us to settle that transaction due to some reason on the account (card was canceled, nsf, etc), unless the subscription was canceled, obviously

[Toby]

Just tossing out a couple of thoughts that have crossed my mind in regards to scrubbing.

- Do affiliate transactions have a higher level of scrubbing?

- Do accounts with a higher chargeback percentage get scrubbed harder?

I guess what I'm really asking is do all transactions by a particular processor get scrubbed the same?

[Jim]

You have got to be careful with processors with less than great scrubbing, you will get screwed sooner or later. We had a processor called ABM with Ultracash. They seemed to accept everyone. It made a lot of people a lot of money. But, after a few months, they said our chargeback rate was so high they had to keep our few million dollars they owed us. After a year, they said chargebacks ate up all the money and we actually owed them money.

[koolkat]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

i think if ccbill really wants people to stop bitching about scrubbing they need to let affiliates see when a card is declinded. someone could think they are getting 10-20 declines a day and blame the scrub but in reality could only be 1-2 and just isn't promoting properly or has poor traffic. personally i find the big sites that use ccbill still convert well.

Actually, as my primary processor, I do have access to cards which are declined and the reason (typically a very vague reason for something such as Declined by Bank or Transaction Declined). As I said, seeing when they decline, it is kind of frustrating when I see it approved 2 minutes later when the customer re-runs it. I just wonder how many sales I have lost because the customer didn't try to re-run it!

[emmanuelle]

Originally Posted by koolkat

I just wonder how many sales I have lost because the customer didn't try to re-run it!

Are you certain that every bit of info re entered is the same as the first time around? With my merchant account, I often see people succeed the 2nd time around because they have entered a new card number, or formatted their address differently. Apartment addresses seem to be pretty tricky.

[GenXer]

I have one paysite that uses CCbill, and I do appreciate their making sure the chargebacks can be as low as possible. But as an affiliate, the conversion ratios are terrible. I no longer promote any programs that use CCbill as their only processor. I had to take any ccbill based affiliate program I had off of all of my sites due to it not being worth it for the terrible conversions.

[corvett]

Originally Posted by Toby

Just tossing out a couple of thoughts that have crossed my mind in regards to scrubbing.

- Do affiliate transactions have a higher level of scrubbing?

- Do accounts with a higher chargeback percentage get scrubbed harder?

I guess what I'm really asking is do all transactions by a particular processor get scrubbed the same?

Icq me if you have questions, while we are careful at what we release to clients regarding our internal system/scrubbing, etc, I am especially overly cautious what I will mention on public message boards, other than generalities, for obvious reasons

45471840

[Jel]

Thanks for chiming in everyone, I'm still very new at this so it's always good to hear the other side of the coin so to speak. I guess what I can't understand is from my own experiences, having been declined evry time I've tried to join a site, when all is good and the info matches up exactly. I have no problem buying content, paying hosting etc. with my cards, so when I see those numbers I kinda scratch my head at them.

I appreciate what you are saying, and that obviously there is a need for a certain level of scrubbing, but I'm sure I'm not alone is seeing when the hard scrub is 'on' as opposed to 'off', I am wondering why it isn't consistent - why would there be a need to set it harder from one week to the next? Maybe a rash of stolen cards/numbers perhaps?

As I say, I'm still new a this in the grand scheme of things, so it's always good when more experienced people than I explain things that aren't clear to me. Thanks, and if anyone can answer those coupla new questions I have I'd be grateful

[RawAlex]

Come back in six months and make the same comparision again. I think you will find that your sponsor that recently switched will have tightened things up on their new processing as well, and you will be back to making about the same number of sales.

CCBill has a pretty strong scrub, but chargebacks with them (from my experience) are pretty low.

Alex

[LB]

CCBill generally hits the affiliate more than the program owner, because their tracking does lose a lot of affiliate codes ... not a massive percentage but a noticable one.

Programs who use ccbill in a cascade or use their own affiliate tracking software (eg nats) tend to do much better for me. So in short the sales are just as good with ccbill, but its often the affiliate tracking where the numbers are being dropped.

[Boogie]

This entire thread simply solidifies for me the growing need for webmasters to diversify their revenue stream from different sponsors and different billers