The thought about global GUBA removing

[kit]

I just found this topic right now:
http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=578659
And I want to support it.
What think link site owners regarding global GUBA blacklisting on our sites?
To be honest, GUBA do their business just because they sell access to the stollen content. They have no any rights to this content, absolutely.

[Ramster]

To me these guys look like thiefs.

[Toby]

I see little difference between GUBA and Fusker. They're both making money via unauthorized use of copyrighted content.

[RawAlex]

Up until today, Rabbit's Reviews and others were listing them as a valid paysite. Directly or indirectly your traffic was headed there. Thankfully, they have dropped them off.

Our industry should be smart enough not to shit where we eat, but I guess some people need to be dragged into the public light to see said light.

Guba, Fusker, and anything of that sort is a major "no go" any time for me.

Alex

[2msacras]

I'd add imagecash (at least I think that's the name) to the list

[kit]

As I said, I'll remove them. On this week.
But I want to discuss it with other link site operators. RawAlex joint this fight before me and I agree with him and TheBestPorn and RabbitsReviews webmasters.

But such action have result when they become global. If nobody else can't decline them, the total result will equal zero.

[MrYum]

I've never listed any of those crapholes...nor will I

Good to get this out there though and make sure list owners are fully aware of exactly how Guba and those like them work.

[Jim]

You guys are so 8 years ago

[Linkster]

Jim - really - I agree - the damn site and the other 50000 just like it have been around for 10 years that I remember, and people are just now starting to worry about it? WTF?
Ive got an idea - lets shutdown Usenet too - since they are really the thieves - oh yeah I forgot - they dont exist.
I suppose the next thing we'll hear is a call to shut down all of the affiliate paysites out there that have their own newsgroup scanner inside the members area too??????

Ive got an idea - why dont we try to innovate and do some things like the mainstream is doing and add popups to our sites - hell we always get accused of it by the media - why not make a profit off of it like mainstream does???

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by kit

As I said, I'll remove them. On this week.
But I want to discuss it with other link site operators. RawAlex joint this fight before me and I agree with him and TheBestPorn and RabbitsReviews webmasters.

But such action have result when they become global. If nobody else can't decline them, the total result will equal zero.

Do you mean that you approved of this practice until yesterday?

*****

Like we discussed on the show last night, it's not gonna go away (usenet) so the best thing we can do is not endorse it & draw attention to it or P2P sites & whatnot.

[RawAlex]

Jim, usenet sites have been around for a very long time indeed. Third party newsgroup readers have been around a very long time. However, Guba is different, and their recent changes have certain pushed them into a whole new realm.

Basically, they extract the images and dump the newsgroup postings. Then they filter them, sort them by subject, and so on. They remove certain types of images (apparently CP and other subjects) and then present the images in thumbnail format without any reference to the usenet posts they come from.

They also collect video clips and movies. They transcode these to whatever format you will like including making them available for ipod and PSPs.

They apparently also collect content from P2P networks and similar setups.

They charge by the month for access to these services.

Now, if I was to go and take stuff from the usenet and open a paysite with it, you guys would drum me out of here faster than (name not mentioned) would call me names.

The usenet is a cesspool of illegal activity. Just providing access would make them an exempt carrier (if they just provided access). However, because they filter, edit, convert, organize, and re-distribute the content in a format other than the usenet format, they are very likely far over the line.

Don't let the little "usenet" sign at the door blind you to what is in fact going on. Content theft is content theft, no matter how it is done.

Alex

[Toby]

These sites have been around for years, but the laws are changing, catching up (slowly) with the Internet. The Wild West days already long gone, but they'll soon be a distant memory.

A ruling yesterday in the Perfect10/Google court case could have major implications.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...y/13928636.htm

Also, I'm sure these sites are not 2257 compliant. As a secondary producer they don't need to have the individual model documents, but they do still need to be able to point back to the source of the images, who do have the requisite documentation. Since their sources most likely stole the images, they have no documented source to refer to.

[Greenguy]

Alex - you missed the radio show last night & we covered all that. Jim & I agree with you that it's a very bad thing & the people that run GUBA are scumbags, so we all pretty much agreed to not endorse them.

[Linkster]

Alex - those arent recent changes - theyve done that since 1996 - so has every one of the other services that do exactly the same thing (and this includes some affiliate programs paysites members areas which give their members that extra 500,000 pics by having access to Usenet as well) - and based on the few that Ive looked at they all have been doing this forever.

The only reason this came to the forefront recently is that they sponsored some stuff in Vegas and then the other day skinned another board as they have started really pushing their WM affiliate program.

Again - this is not something that is going to go away - but like Greenie says - most of us dont endorse it.

You would think that this would have hit the fan back when the record companies were going after the P2P services, since Usenet is still a "great" source of music CDs - for free of course if you have something like Agent to retrieve them - I know I could fill up my 30G IPOD in two days with all of the MP3 rips of music CDs posted there every day

Of course someone will start looking into the Affiliate programs paysites here pretty soon and another tool the paysite owners use will go down the tubes - I know most of them have already pulled their advertising on their tours that they provide access to the Usenet (a few years back)


Seems like someone always has to police the internet - since we cant seem to fight off the Govt very well we might as well cut away all of the long time ways of advertising that we have had in the past ourselves - hell - maybe we should just borrow that shotgun from Cheney and shoot both of our own feet

[[BV]]

Linkster,

I've never been worried about USENET users cutting into my sales at all because the average user is probably reading with Outlook Express and on their shitty ISP's news server. These servers hardly cache anything for very long making it hardly comparable and worth it to spend 25 bucks a month for a good pay site membership. Maybe even after viewing some of your Usenet promo clips.

But when you make a slick interface that everyone can use and then try to market it to the masses through a big affiliate program, now it's time for me to be a little worried.

So GUBA claims they sell the use of this interface and are not stealing content. Sounds good but I think they are flying in a big grey area by hosting the thumbs. You can't say they are just like Google because when you click the thumb you are directed to the GUBA sign up page. Google sends traffic to you if it spiders your video. Same for Yahoo and all the others that are popping up.

Also you are not going to find thousands of full length vids from Bangbros on Google video search. That would cost too much in BW for the flood. This is how you see so many full length vids and entire member areas posted on Usenet, they wouldn't do it if they had to upload it to their own server. The ISP pays for it though.

I don't want to write a book so I'll stop here for now

Cheers,
BV

Originally Posted by Linkster

Jim - really - I agree - the damn site and the other 50000 just like it have been around for 10 years that I remember, and people are just now starting to worry about it? WTF?
Ive got an idea - lets shutdown Usenet too - since they are really the thieves - oh yeah I forgot - they dont exist.
I suppose the next thing we'll hear is a call to shut down all of the affiliate paysites out there that have their own newsgroup scanner inside the members area too??????

Ive got an idea - why dont we try to innovate and do some things like the mainstream is doing and add popups to our sites - hell we always get accused of it by the media - why not make a profit off of it like mainstream does???

[RawAlex]

Linkster, I understand that Guba has been around for a long time. However, their current "sorted" interface is relatively new, but their services have been around for years.

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/tr...l=*********#top

The question comes down to the extraction process. If they give you usenet access, and you download the feeds whatnot and strip off only the iamges on your own PC, there is little or nothing illegal. When a service does that for you and resells access to the images and videos only, they have crossed a line. Stepping it up further recently, that have also started to offer transcoding and re-encoding of videos and pictures to fit IPod and PSP formats.

The most important thing at this point is that they are suddenly "down for maintenance" and I suspect they will stay that way for a while. The newest Perfect10s v. Google ruling may put a real chill on any "image reuse" sites.

Alex

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

Alex - you missed the radio show last night & we covered all that. Jim & I agree with you that it's a very bad thing & the people that run GUBA are scumbags, so we all pretty much agreed to not endorse them.

I think we all agree, but just dismissing them as "another usenet" service sort of doesn't do their scumbaggery justice.

Alex

[Toolz]

They were offline most of today, I see their back up, I guess my prayers haven't been answered

[kit]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

Do you mean that you approved of this practice until yesterday?

I promoted them, but I did'nt think about this business model so much.
To be honest, I trust to major US billings: If their bill the particular biz - it's a legal biz. As I know, the Guba billing is Paycom. (?)

Recently I read TheBestPorn and RabbitsReviews initiative. I respect them and well know them by review business, and now I think, why not support this initiative?

The majot difference between Usenet and Guba - Usenet don't try to sell access to the stollen content. Guba does.

[Pornwolf]

I'm really proud of the industry coming together in a unified way to do the right thing here. It's pretty amazing actually.

[Toolz]

Originally Posted by kit

I promoted them, but I did'nt think about this business model so much.
To be honest, I trust to major US billings: If their bill the particular biz - it's a legal biz. As I know, the Guba billing is Paycom. (?)

The majot difference between Usenet and Guba - Usenet don't try to sell access to the stollen content. Guba does.

The first statement is laughable at best, so there's nothing you won't promote morally even if it's stealing from yourself so long as a major processor bills for them? Check their join page again because it's certainly not Paycom supporting these crooks I'd already be on the phone to my rep to see what could be done about it.

Part 2, I could care less if GUBA was just a newsgroup company there's hundreds of them selling access to newsgroups you're really missing the point here, their easy search features and dumbing down Usenet for end users, as well as converting the files into different formats is the problem.

Usenet as a whole is about as bad as IRC for our biz, however in the past most of those customers probably weren't buying anyways, why make it even easier for them not to buy.

[kit]

Toolz, yes, I'm subscribed to the thousadns affiliate programs and often I just trust to the billing names. I can't verify legality of each my partner itself. Example: Do you know how much stollen content inside of paysites you promote now? Did you check each paysite?

[[BV]]

Kit,

I can see where you are coming from running sites where you have 1000's of sponsors to check out and understand. That is a huge task to deal with.

Thank god you are a GG&Jim member an ran across this thread!

I think this is a very important topic and it would be nice to see a forum just for this type of thing. A place where webmasters can go and read about (as well as give their views) about programs and issues that are NOT good for our industry. It would be a forum every webmaster should read.

Originally Posted by kit

Toolz, yes, I'm subscribed to the thousands affiliate programs and often I just trust to the billing names. I can't verify legality of each my partner itself. Example: Do you know how much stollen content inside of paysites you promote now? Did you check each paysite?

[Toolz]

Originally Posted by kit

Toolz, yes, I'm subscribed to the thousadns affiliate programs and often I just trust to the billing names. I can't verify legality of each my partner itself. Example: Do you know how much stollen content inside of paysites you promote now? Did you check each paysite?

Inside of sites I promote now? Better be none, and the difference is I deal with reputable programs that don't have a need to steal content I send outgoing traffic to about 4 places, GUBA is only based on one thing, stealing content.

[kit]

Originally Posted by Toolz

GUBA is only based on one thing, stealing content.

Absolutely.