Something is up with the way CCBill uses cookies

[Cleo]

I was doing tests to make sure that the webmaster's ID is being carried correctly on some hosted stuff.

Only in the first set of hidden fields is the information correct as I cleared the browser's cookies first.

Without a browse's cookies cleared I only see my webmaster ID in the first one. I have no idea who's ID is in the other two. Also other fields are showing incorrect old infomation.

So are we getting credited with CCBill sales or are we losing sales due to old cookies being read? Does CCBill use something besides cookies?


IE with all its cookies cleared
<input type=hidden name='ageVerifyConfirm' value='NONE'>
<input type=hidden name='referringUrl' value='http://foxy-angel.com/tour/join.php'>
<input type=hidden name='referingDestURL' value='http://foxy-angel.com/tour/'>
<input type=hidden name='system' value='3e8570b4c512c369b769e67fab962501'>
<input type=hidden name='allowedTypes' value=''>
<input type=hidden name='pricing' value='FULL'>
<input type=hidden name='byPassDeactive' value=''>
<input type=hidden name='serviceInfo' value=''>
<input type=hidden name=ccbill_referer value='656559'>
<input type=hidden name=referingURL value='http://foxy-angel-shemale-promotions.com/hostedgalleries/8-04/04/foxyangel.php?656559'>
<input type=hidden name=referingDestURL value='http://foxy-angel.com/tour/'>

Safari which I use all the time and never clear its cookies
<input type=hidden name='ageVerifyConfirm' value='NONE'>
<input type=hidden name='referringUrl' value='http://foxy-angel.com/tour/join.php'>
<input type=hidden name='referingDestURL' value='http://foxyangel.com/ccbill/OLD-19.95-price-index.htm'>
<input type=hidden name='system' value='c04e773bb3f66795a23993f182f3af79'>
<input type=hidden name='allowedTypes' value=''>
<input type=hidden name='pricing' value='FULL'>
<input type=hidden name='byPassDeactive' value=''>
<input type=hidden name='serviceInfo' value=''>
<input type=hidden name=ccbill_referer value='630598'>
<input type=hidden name=referingURL value='http://www.foxy-angel.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=714'>
<input type=hidden name=referingDestURL value='http://foxyangel.com/ccbill/OLD-19.95-price-index.htm'>

Mozilla which I don't use a lot and also do not clear its cookies.
<input type=hidden name='ageVerifyConfirm' value='NONE'>
<input type=hidden name='referringUrl' value='http://foxy-angel.com/tour/join.php'>
<input type=hidden name='referingDestURL' value='http://www.foxyangel.com/tour/join.php'>
<input type=hidden name='system' value='745c65c59185415fd9b6a6f519b097c2'>
<input type=hidden name='allowedTypes' value=''>
<input type=hidden name='pricing' value='FULL'>
<input type=hidden name='byPassDeactive' value=''>
<input type=hidden name='serviceInfo' value=''>
<input type=hidden name=ccbill_referer value='668614'>
<input type=hidden name=referingURL value='http://www.foxyangell.com/'>
<input type=hidden name=referingDestURL value='http://www.foxyangel.com/tour/join.php'>

[RawAlex]

Cleo, this is the reason that a number of scammer sites out there have been opening multiple sites in 1x1 iframes and other methods to get the cookies set to their code, knowing that the cookie will persist and they will get credit for sales other people make.

It is potentially the largest scam so far this year.

Alex

[Bunnyhop]

wow that's crazy...thanks for the headsup on this...I may have to start rethinking sponsors using CCBill for the time being...

[Cleo]

Oddly enough when I told IE to not accept any cookies and cleared all of them first I still see my ID.

<input type=hidden name='ageVerifyConfirm' value='NONE'>
<input type=hidden name='referringUrl' value='http://foxy-angel.com/tour/join.php'>
<input type=hidden name='referingDestURL' value=''>
<input type=hidden name='system' value='3e8570b4c512c369b769e67fab962501'>
<input type=hidden name='allowedTypes' value=''>
<input type=hidden name='pricing' value='FULL'>
<input type=hidden name='byPassDeactive' value=''>
<input type=hidden name='serviceInfo' value=''>
<input type=hidden name=ccbill_referer value='656559'>
<input type=hidden name=referingURL value=''>
<input type=hidden name=referingDestURL value=''>

[Tommy]

I can never make any money with cc bill sponsors

I have had sponsors that I made money with on i bill and epoch and acpay
when they switched to ccbill my checks dried up

[Cleo]

So what other choices are there for amateur paysites besides iBill which IMO suck even worse?

[darksoft]

Epoch seems to be one of the big boys now. I haven't trusted ccbill in ages.

[buttface_mcgee]

i noticed this exact same thing today too. i cleared cookies, clicked through my gallery to the tour and on to CCBill and it was fine. went back and did it again, and some other ID was in there.

how did this other ID get in there in the first place? i didn't visit any other ccbill sites between visits.

[swedguy]

There's a way for the paysite owner to change the webmaster ID very easily, even if the webmaster sent it through a proper CCBill linking code.

I've asked CCBill why it's possible to do this, but I've never received an answer.


A possible explanation why you still see your webmaster ID even after you have cleared your cookies is that they use both cookie and IP tracking.

[AcidMaX]

Being a programmer I can say that Epoch kills CCBILL. I have written multiple billing platforms for paysites and hands down Epoch beats CCBILL for sales, integration etc. I think Epoch is just an all around better company.

Andy

[Tommy]

how hard is it to set up epoch

[AcidMaX]

Originally posted by Tommy
how hard is it to set up epoch

Depends on what you are looking for , Epoch has many of the same features that CCBILL does although their webmaster admin isnt as put together. Othewise setting up Epoch is just as easy technical wise. They have the htaccess scripts if thats what you want to use.

The nice thing about epoch is they post all sales data, cancels etc etc to a database of your own, as opposed to grabbing sales data from their site (like CCBILL).

As far as paperwork etc I dont think its anymore difficult then CCBILL is, and last I heard the cost is still the same.


Andy

[Cleo]

So I could just duplicate the existing tour for Epoch and it could use the same password file that CCBill uses so they both could coexist then?

I see some using www.aacsp.com is that another good option?

What kind of money would it cost to do cascading billing using more then one processor?

[AcidMaX]

Originally posted by Cleo
So I could just duplicate the existing tour for Epoch and it could use the same password file that CCBill uses so they both could coexist then?

I see some using www.aacsp.com is that another good option?

What kind of money would it cost to do cascading billing using more then one processor?

You could duplicate the tour and signup for both CCBILL and Epoch and let the webmaster choose who to send traffic to.

If you want to do cascading billing then you would have to have some affiliate software in place to give the webmaster an affiliate code which would be static no matter who the processor is. Since the codes for Epoch dont work with CCBILL etc there would have to be that intermediate software to track clicks etc. As far as money that depends on if you get a custom solution or a solution like NATS or Mansions product.

I have never used AACSP you might want to talk to the Outback Cash guys for their opinion, I believe that is who they use.

Think of things this way.....

When you run a site and let CCBILL process the checks, what happens to the money when someone doesnt cash a check? If you send me a check and I forget to cash it, you dont get that money back, CCBILL does. I have heard people say they see upwards of 15%-20% increase in revenues when they move to their own affiliate program over using CCBILL/EPOCH's affiliate software. This is because they charge you 13+% to bill, then keep that extra money. Although I have not seen these numbers first hand these are all statements people have made.

HTH
Andy

[Cleo]

Guess Angle and I will be stopping by www.epochsolutions.com on the showroom floor.

[AcidMaX]

Just keep in mind my statement of the 15+ % is Epoch as well. The only way you make more money is with your own affiliate software. But Epoch is definitely a good processor and personally I think they convert sales better than CCBILL.

Andy

[Cleo]

So ballpark figure for something like FoxyAngel.com to have her own affiliate software? No cascade billing or anything, just something basic like what CCBill is providing now.

I'm guessing that this means she would have to get her own merchant account which is probably not that easy to do.

[AcidMaX]

Originally posted by Cleo
So ballpark figure for something like FoxyAngel.com to have her own affiliate software? No cascade billing or anything, just something basic like what CCBill is providing now.

I'm guessing that this means she would have to get her own merchant account which is probably not that easy to do.

No you can use Epoch and/or CCBILL with any affiliate software. I think you can rent mansions product for $300 a month and it has cascading in it. No merchant account is needed.

See this would be the process. You have an affiliate software, you still use Epoch / CCBILL for billing but they dont send the checks, you do. So they do the processing, you have your own affiliate software for click tracking, sales tracking etc. Then you could even set a limit , say $50 minimum for checks. Then at $50 you send the checks, if someone doesn't cash a check its your money instead of CCBILL's money or Epoch's Money.

You can also look at x3scripts.com they have Partner Soft but its like $7500.

I think the best bet would probably get something like MPA3 to start at $300 a month and then $750 for Epoch. So for about $1000 to start you could have cascading billing, an affiliate software, cut your own checks and probably see an increase in revenues of near 20% with the cascading billing and cutting of your own checks.

The othe scenario is I could probably give you some advice and such on how to write your own basic affiliate program, I think you know some programming, I'm not sure of your experience level and I dont know if you plan on growing your sites or not etc. But if you want just email me at webmaster@smutlinks.net and we can discuss it further if you want to take it offline.


HTH
Andy

[Cleo]

I'l let Angel know since it is her site, I'm just the traffic whore who feeds it traffic, and maybe mail you about this.

Using CCBill or Epoch for processing still doesn't solve the problem of their rather high processing fees.

As her largest affiliate I would like to see better affiliate tracking then what CCBill seems to provide.

I was hoping that maybe someone from CCBill will comment on my first post in this thread.

[FiReC]

Originally posted by AcidMaX

The nice thing about epoch is they post all sales data, cancels etc etc to a database of your own, as opposed to grabbing sales data from their site (like CCBILL).

Andy

You guys are killing me. CCBill has these same POSTBACK features you just have to dig for them a little bit. I use them on nubiles.net

I do agree the tracking does suck on CCBill, however it can be fixed quite easily. As far as tracking using cookies and IPs, here are the two problems.

Cookies: get deleted, new browsers block them, spyware removers nuke them.

IPs: dynamic IP's and proxys really fuck it up. I know because I tried to use IP protection on our members area and found that ALOT of people were behind dynamic and or proxy IPs that are constantly changing.

So how do you fix it with CCBill? implement your own session tracking using the affiliates ID at the end of the linking code, ie http://refer.ccbill.com/cgi-bin/clic...?coupon=611105

You can then carry the ID all the way to the join form, which takes precedents over the cookie. No more losing sales to lost cookies or dynamic ips.

[AcidMaX]

Originally posted by FiReC
You guys are killing me. CCBill has these same POSTBACK features you just have to dig for them a little bit. I use them on nubiles.net

I do agree the tracking does suck on CCBill, however it can be fixed quite easily. As far as tracking using cookies and IPs, here are the two problems.

Cookies: get deleted, new browsers block them, spyware removers nuke them.

IPs: dynamic IP's and proxys really fuck it up. I know because I tried to use IP protection on our members area and found that ALOT of people were behind dynamic and or proxy IPs that are constantly changing.

So how do you fix it with CCBill? implement your own session tracking using the affiliates ID at the end of the linking code, ie http://refer.ccbill.com/cgi-bin/clic...?coupon=611105

You can then carry the ID all the way to the join form, which takes precedents over the cookie. No more losing sales to lost cookies or dynamic ips.

What do you mean you guys? First off I am not talking about POSTBACK. Postback is when a sale is completed. With a postback you can add a member, log the sale, etc etc with information you send to Epoch/CCBILL that gets returned on a successful signup. Yes you are right both companies have that.

I was speaking of the CCBILL Data Dump features vs. Epochs.

There are many different parts to processing. There is data collection/sorting/processing, there is postback which allows you to do multiple things including add a user, or anything else you want.

I have all the documentation and extensive experience with integrating with CCBILL and Epoch if anyone needs the docs feel free to let me know and I can send them to you.

Andy

[FiReC]

My point is that you can get all that data (signups, cancels, refunds, chargebacks, etc) posted to your own DB so you can do what you want with it.

It sounds like Epoch will post cancel, refund, chargeback data to you after its happend, which is cool and something that CCBill doesn't do, but this doesn't mean the data isn't available for your DBs with CCBill. It's just a little more work to parse it

Thats really beside the point tho, this thread was originally about CCBills linking codes falling short, and by default I think they do. I offered my solution above and I hope it can help some people out.