Which Spons are Ready for 2257 Change?

[MrYum]

Very well said MadMax

Yea, this is a pain in the ass. But, even IF this comes to fruition and we have to comply as the regs currently stand...it's not the end of the world. Yea, I'd most likely pull some domains until I can bring them up to speed. Yea, I'll lose use of about half my content...maybe more. But, this business and the folks that are serious about it are pretty resilient.

Also, there is no way in hell these regs will do a damn thing to stop CP. You're absolutely right...sponsors...ESPECIALLY US sponsors don't touch that crap anyway.

I'm sitting tight until we know more about what will be NECESSARY to comply with...cuz it appears pretty obvious that these regs are far too reaching. When the time comes, I'll either swap out free site images based on niche...with content I have all the docs on. Or, I'll yank the domains...most of em are old and pull very little traffic anyway...no big loss.

Speaking of which...time to get back to work! No matter how all this shakes out...I'm in this for the long term...and I need mo traffic! Here surfer surfer

[domweb]

Originally Posted by MadMax

If we end up with a system where most or all of the free hardcore is only available on sponsor tours I think all our bottom lines will fatten up. My primary revenue stream comes from Fetish Philes, which doesn't host any hardcore images anyway

Max...I agree in principle to what you are saying. But consider one thing.

A big reason that Fetish Philes and other big link lists are successful (besides you busting your ass) is that you have ALOT of folks submitting sites to you.

If this law is not junked in the courts, I am betting your submissions will dry up fast. Unless I misunderstand your business model, most link list surfers come in for the free porn, find what they like and get upsold to the paysite.

So if the free sites go away...why would the vast majority of the public come to a link list for the first time? A Google or Yahoo search will turn up as many paysites.

True, your site covers an interesting variety of niches, not avialable in many places...but for the majority of link list owners I forsee problems with attracting new customers.

But hey, what the hell do I know? It'll be interesting to see it all shake out. Perhaps the link list is a much more resilient animal than I understand.

[Linkster]

domweb - most of us in the LL biz (at least the ones that have been around for a bit) already filter down the number of submitters due to overused sponsor content - and some do not accept any sponsor content.
The good submitters we have will continue on with their bought content that is documented (and Ive noticed over the last year that most of the submitters already have a 2257 link on their free sites) and only the submitters that we would have declined anyway will go out of biz.
I dont think the LL biz will be affected at all except for some minor annoyances when it comes to the advertising material we use (banners etc)

[Chop Smith]

Originally Posted by domweb

...So if the free sites go away...why would the vast majority of the public come to a link list for the first time? A Google or Yahoo search will turn up as many paysites.

My opinion -
1. Sponsors will step up the production of hosted free sites and free hosted galleries. (Solves the hold damn issue)
2. Sponsors will make special deals with trusted webmasters to provide documentation for sponsor provided content. (Hell, I know about 20 or so LL and TGP owners that I would open my entire catalog to if they would actively promote my sites)
3. LL and TGP owners will increase their own production of free sites and galleries and submit to their "inter-circle". (Someone told me that 'networking' was important in this business.)

[RawAlex]

As Linkster said, link sites are for the most part already filtering out repeated and overused sponsor content, while rewarding the presence of fresh sponsor content, fresh paid content, and unique content created by amateurs to promote themselves. I recently moved to block certain sponsor content, and I am much more fussy these days about the actual content.

That being said, trusted submitters who have shown good taste will always be able to get good sponsor content listed, those posted I trust to use good content and use it well.

As for IMLIVE, let me just point out that they are not in the US:

Sobonito Investments Ltd.
1 Griva Digheni St.
Stavros Pittas court. 4th floor
Limassol 3030
CY

For them as such, this isn't a direct issue, but rather an issue for people who use their content and ads as a secondary producer. They have stated an opinion (and one that in legal terms I think is actually correct), and they are choosing how they will do business. It will be up to individual affiliates and partners to decide how they will handle promoting their program as a result.

Canadian citizenship is now open.

Alex

[Toby]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

...Canadian citizenship is now open.

Ummmm, can we move Canada south a bit first, like about 1500 miles? I'm not a big fan of snow.

[RawAlex]

We tried... a couple of times Canada has tried to get one or more of the carribean islands to become part of Canada, but each time it failed. Too bad, if that happened, you would know EXACTLY where all the Canadian porn would come from!

Alex

[MadMax]

Originally Posted by domweb

It'll be interesting to see it all shake out. Perhaps the link list is a much more resilient animal than I understand.

Linkster covered a couple of the major points, so I'll hit a couple more. The LL model is quite resilient for several reasons. Only about half of my submissions come from the US, the rest come from around the globe. I'd say about 50% of my submitters always use paid content, and the foreign webmasters will continue to use any hardcore free content they can get their hands on from the sponsors. They'll have a better chance of getting this content listed as well if US webmasters can't touch it anymore.

I think Chop was right on point when he said that we'll see a lot more HFS from sponsors, as well as a lot more FHG. They're going to need to make up for the promotion they'll lose from affiliates who can no longer use the free content they supply, so that in itself will provide a steady stream of fresh sites for LL owners to list.

Depending on how the "Secondary Producer" issue shakes out in the end, I think the biggest shakeup for LL owners will be that we'll have to drop a good number of our listings because submitters will be pulling the sites, and that will happen across the board. From that point on new submissions will have much more paid content, and those webmasters who are unable or unwilling to buy content will fade away.

Sponsors will be forced to offer more non-hardcore banners, and until they come up with them my advertising options will suffer, but I was about to revamp all my advertising anyway

The good submitters who buy content will continue unaffected, sponsors will have to cater even more to LL and TGP owners, and there will be less free hardcore overall. This, I believe, will be a benefit to LL owners in the long run. We'll also probably see a couple new ideas born of necessity.

Amusingly enough, I think the biggest change that will be brought on if these new rules fly is that there will be much more domestic porn production since the only acceptable forms of ID would be US issued identification.

Nice Job Gonzalez, I'm sure the Moral (sic) Majority will be very proud of you and your boss for making sure MORE porn gets produced in the US

Some good posts here. Just one point Max, overseas IDs are acceptable.

There is a need for some law to tighten up the Adult Internet, this one just went way to far and will be struck down IMO.

There are sites out there with models looking 15+ and some of them have too many for it to be a coincidence. Most from what I see are in Russia/Ukraine. The models look very unhappy.

Cutting down these sites abilities to hide behind a curtain is needed, this act will not hurt them IMO.

But the future is good for those who stay the course. Free content was already losing it's appeal and more will be buying content. Any business relies on a strong supply basis of it's content and contrary to what some think this is not the traffic business.

Free hard-core content will be tough to find, because you will need to get the models approval to give out her documents to anyone who asks. In the US where lawyers are looking for people and reasons to sue this could be an opportunity to make money. So forget about old content being 2257 compliant, it isn’t. Unless you have taken the model release to an attorney and he said it is.

All of a sudden the hardcore content available for free has taken a nosedive. Now think of all the pirate sites. None have documents. Tell them to remove the content or you report them for being non-compliant with a law that puts them in prison for 5 years.

I suspect someone like Frukster will get the first visit they can only go to hot link access and that's it. Reduction of peer to peer, google will have to change it's tack, unless I'm wrong this means less free porn.

Less kids working from their bedroom or dorm, less part timers and not a surfer less. Might even help to make surfing the adult net a more enjoyable experience.

I'm not shutting up shop. In fact I'm employing another full time picture corrector/video editor to help us cope with demand.

[Linkster]

domweb - just so there is no misunderstanding - if free content goes away - which I think it will - submissions wont dry up for LLs - it will just make less work for us having to dredge through the BS submits to get to the paid content submits which is about all we list.

You also asked why a surfer would go to a LL when looking at Google or Yahoo - the main reason is that the LLs pretty much hold the top positions for most words and phrases searched for on the adult side of the Search engines - with the TGPs coming in second - its very rare to see a paysite listed in the top listings except for their specific name of the site because they dont have a lot of crawlable content (outside the members protected area that Google can get to).
And I dont believe that will ever change.

I dont see the serious free site makers changing their biz too much - they are mostly already compliant and even among the serious submitters we have too many sites to list every day

Madmax - I dont think many sponsors will be coming out with any more softcore banners as they would still have to meet the 2257 for the source pics they use - and the ones that were really concerned back when COPA became an issue again have already made up their softcore banners and tours but will still have to meet all of the requirements of this new rule

[RedCherry]

I know I'm going through my old sites and removing any sexually explicit content from the site, and marking off the domains as I go. Pain in the butt, but have to do it. Only content I have pic ids and model releases will I leave up, and then limited. Prob going to get the Komply script too to help document my sites.

I just THANK GOD all the content I have shot for my site doesn't fall under the regs. I still quote 2257, but none of it is explicit.

[Sinistress]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

We tried... a couple of times Canada has tried to get one or more of the carribean islands to become part of Canada, but each time it failed. Too bad, if that happened, you would know EXACTLY where all the Canadian porn would come from!

Alex

Actually that's not entirely accurate, because there was an offer to the Canadian government not too long ago from some small island in the Caribbean, and our government turned it down. I'll see if I can find you a link...

[Sinistress]

Okay yeah its a string of about 40 islands it looks like "Turks & Caicos" in the Caribbean, and the idea of the "region" becoming Canada's 11th Province has been presented to our federal government twice before now, and shot down both times. Its in the works of being presented again, with some interested politicians on both sides, (lower level politicians that have yet to present the idea to Parliament)

[pornrex]

Originally Posted by Sinistress

Okay yeah its a string of about 40 islands it looks like "Turks & Caicos" in the Caribbean, and the idea of the "region" becoming Canada's 11th Province has been presented to our federal government twice before now, and shot down both times. Its in the works of being presented again, with some interested politicians on both sides, (lower level politicians that have yet to present the idea to Parliament)

I for one sure hope that this does come to fruition. IT would be nice for Canadians to have a place to go to where its warm during the cold winter months and have the dollar at par full time. And besides, Turks & Caicos are absolutely gorgeous destinations. Can you just imagine how many Canadians would rush to secure some form of residency down there should this process be accepted? WOW!
Count me in if that happens!!

[tickler]

I'll be on the first flight down when it happens!

For Paul, I figure you are doing the right thing based on several points!

1) Since I have worked in systems for a long time, most people do not realize there are rules laid out for information that is gathered. Like when you fill out a personnel form, that information can only be used for the purpose gathered like checks, and benefits, etc. The company can not turn around and sell it to some vacuum cleaner company.

So I hope all your models info have a statement permitting you to disclose the information to other parties.

2) Been doing some reading up on this latest bit of BS. Particulaly with regards to Canada which has some of the toughest privacy laws in the world. Providing personal data without authority can result in fines from $10,000-$100,000 depending on how the charges are laid(read misdemeanor or felony for the US crowd).

There was already a somewhat similar case in Canada which probably lays some ground work for any 2257 challenge. It basically laid out that personal information on Canadians can not be disclosed to the US DOJ, even if requested under the US PATRIOT Act, which would have likely get a more favorable reception!

Oh well!

Finally, some of you may not know that it is legal for women to go topless in Canada. Just wish a bunch had shown up to say hello to Bush when he was here! |shocking|

One final point.
Several people have mentioned Traci Lords. As a lawyer said on another board, she did have the 2 required pieces of ID. This newest regulation says nothing about the producer having to be able to distinguish fake IDs. What's a passport from Zambia look like?

Originally Posted by tickler

One final point.
Several people have mentioned Traci Lords. As a lawyer said on another board, she did have the 2 required pieces of ID. This newest regulation says nothing about the producer having to be able to distinguish fake IDs. What's a passport from Zambia look like?

No she only had one, to my knowledge.

[ponygirl]

Originally Posted by tickler

There was already a somewhat similar case in Canada which probably lays some ground work for any 2257 challenge. It basically laid out that personal information on Canadians can not be disclosed to the US DOJ, even if requested under the US PATRIOT Act, which would have likely get a more favorable reception!

Tickler - do you have any other info about this, I would be interested in looking it up, thx

Ponygirl

ps - I have yet to see (or be lol) a topless woman walking down the street in my town, altho the precident was set not too far from here

[Tommy]

so paul are you giving out the docs to webmasters that have bought content ??

[Lemmy]

Originally Posted by Tommy

so paul are you giving out the docs to webmasters that have bought content ??

Yup, he gives a nice pic of the model holding up two legible forms of ID plus signed model release in every set.

[gt68lt70]

Originally Posted by Tommy

so paul are you giving out the docs to webmasters that have bought content ??

I have bought content from Paul in the past and I got all the docs.

I wish sponsors would at least give the docs for their banners...

[spookyx]

Originally Posted by domweb

I am not a lawyer. Laymans opinion:


They only way to hit a non-US citizen is to freeze acoounts in the USA. So, unless you have a bank account in the US, I don't see how they can touch anyone but US citizens.

They might (and I stress might) be able to "seize" a .com website reg'd or hosted in the USA. its like when the feds go after anyone, they love to seize property and make you show you are not guilty to get it back.

sieg heil g.w.

[amber438]

Originally Posted by gt68lt70

I wish sponsors would at least give the docs for their banners...

That has been the problem I have been experiencing. I've been switching banners to either soft or all text and a lot of sponsors do not have em..
Also, I bought a lot of content from a few companies and a few have not even responded to a request, and they are quite big. It would piss me off royally to can that content.
Some, of course, have gone out of biz and there's nothing that can be done about it. One content supplier that had superb bi content is gone. I bought a lot from them too.. Another good gay provider is gone too..and that content is in one of my avs sites.. Hard to replace gay biker content..

[guitar riff]

Anyone else like me have a Fucking Migraine YET????

Well When Sponsors do start posting all the stuff we will need what we need to do on the board is See if GG& Jim will make a sticky Post to those spons and Hey they Might even get a few referrals from WM's for the links to them :-)

[guitar riff]

Also Paul Wouldnt the Privacy Statement if any that you and a model signs between you and them , how would that play into this would it trump the law or would the law trump it???

And Also PLease some state exatly what is onsidered Sexually Explicit Now I hear so many damn things anymore I asked My lawyer but he had to look it up in the statutes and havent gotten the answer yet.

[tickler]

Originally Posted by ponygirl

Tickler - do you have any other info about this, I would be interested in looking it up, thx

Okay dear you can start here:
http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/Jdb-txt/...05BCSC0446.htm
It's actual court stuff, so a long read, and a lot to try digesting. Make your own conclusions.

Originally Posted by ponygirl

ps - I have yet to see (or be lol) a topless woman walking down the street in my town, altho the precident was set not too far from here

I kive next to a beach which is mainly a younger crowd. So I see it occasionally. Have also seen it up at Washago. Also some of the dancers at my favorite strip club set outside on the patio topless working on their tans.


Paul, I can't find the actual article at the moment, but, it really doesn't really matter 1,2,3...pieces of ID. What I was getting at is under Sec. 75.2 Maintenance of records a)2) "Producers may rely in good faith on representations by performers regarding accuracy of the names" and I assume IDs.

Paul, also some reading for you:
http://www.avn.com/index.php?Primary...tent_ID=228409
Maybe they are trying to leave the back door open by requiring a US issued ID.

amber438:
Sec. 75.4 If the producer ceases to carry on the business, the records shall be maintained for five years thereafter.
Even if they have gone out of business, they are still required to maintain records for 5 years. So hopefully you can still retrieve some of the info.

RedCherry:
Just removing the pics might not be enough. This wording (including but not limited to Internet computer site or services) has me thinking that if you just have the content. it must be documented also.



One thing that does PO about this is that I 90% of the time only use softcore content and hold back the hardcore for maybe a future paysite. But, because the set(s) have hardcore in them, I still need to go through the BS.

A question for maybe Alex. Any takes on this wording from 75.8(d) "any known major entry points".


Found a side-by-each comparison of the old vs. proposed vs. actual 2257 here:
http://my.execpc.com/~xxxlaw/2257Tables5.24.05.htm