If You Were Inventing the Link List Today...

Useless · 2012-01-11, 11:30 PM

So, if you were creating the link list today, as if it hadn't already been around since Greenie invented the Internet, what would you do? What sort of features would it have? What would it look like?

Replying "I wouldn't bother" is not acceptable.

Bill · 2012-01-11, 11:51 PM

well, I figure you gotta break it up into 'backend' and 'frontend' - with frontend being anything that can be seen by surfers, backend being all link &content management, submission, approval, security, testing, etc.

and that's a fucking interesting question...

Bill · 2012-01-11, 11:59 PM

well, google hates competition and hates the very idea of linklists - so it has to be made to look like it's NOT a linklist, structurally. That means massively greater complexity.

So at minimum you need something like a script that contains, as a plugin, wordpress. The linklist and blog must fuck and give birth to the b-ll-og.

And, the old model of reciprocal linking must be changed at it's structural root - you have to automate a way to constanly be changing recips.

mOrrI · 2012-01-12, 04:31 AM

Well linklists are pretty much a directory IMO.

since you gather the "best links there are in the web"....

Maybe the reciprocal links should be made diferent, maybe not the old main page to main page, but maybe main page to enter free site page and then the main page of the free site to the linklist...

Also in terms of back end the more automated the better...
Who need to figure out what is best for u, since now a days there exists a ton of scripts that do a tons of stuff...

Today everyone is a webmaster, since you can set a blog in 5 minutes.

As a part of Google hatting linklists... well I will say that my linklist is my best ranked site...

LowryBigwood · 2012-01-12, 11:27 AM

I'd make a site for today's surfers and not worry about recip links.... Like a tube site!

Greenguy · 2012-01-12, 12:32 PM

I'd make it look like my last link list, Sunshine Lesbians

pc · 2012-01-12, 12:33 PM

I would definitely add FACEBOOK/TWITTER/OPEN ID LOGIN buttons for one fast click login, ( people tend to be very lazy in these days ) and like delicious or stumbleupon allow for bookmarking unlimited amount of sites for each user, sort of a private bookmarks with option for public display. Like LowryBigwood suggested recip link for bookmarks would be a big NO NO, also you need to disable unique links URL and somehow incorporate counter for how many users already bookmarked the same link.
Allowing submitters/users to populate submitted links to other sites in network would be a nice addition with one simple setting.
Having ability to post to incorporated blog and open forum with one login is another nice addition, but starter of this topic know this already

Things like auto tagging, rewards for comments and ratings, auto newsletter for registered users, extracting meta data from submitted links, everything that will make submitter / book-marker adding new link fast and painless.
Reciprocal links could be awarded with higher positions on your pages and / or additional listing on other sites.
Some of the stuff I already implemented into my sites, on some I'm still working.
Link lists are not dead, like UW stated in his latest posts, they just need little re-invention.

2c

Simon · 2012-01-12, 12:41 PM

Just my opinions here. I think Lowry is on-target.

The links you really want are those you get because the surfer adds your link somewhere. The old 1-to-1 reciprocal linking, or almost any detectable pattern of linking, is a waste of time and can do more harm that good. But wasting time is bad enough.

As far as I'm concerned the only two ways a Link List can be valuable in today's Internet are either to: 1). return to it's roots and just be a clean and simple list of great porn, dropping all of the flashy ads and graphics to become a very simple list of links; or 2). become something brand new, which is not what I'd do so I'll leave that for others to discuss.

I'm thinking a very simple Link List, almost all text, designed *only* for the surfer's benefit. Make the links valuable to the surfer so they'll bookmark, return, share. Later, if the traffic warrants it, you monetize it somehow. But from day one you start building your mailing/newsletter list.

May turn out that the list is the reason to do it.

Just my rambling thoughts. © 2012

Useless · 2012-01-12, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon

I'm thinking a very simple Link List, almost all text, designed *only* for the surfer's benefit. Make the links valuable to the surfer so they'll bookmark, return, share. Later, if the traffic warrants it, you monetize it somehow. But from day one you start building your mailing/newsletter list.

That's already been done. It's called The Hun.

Ramster · 2012-01-12, 01:44 PM

I'd make a "link list" where people could join as a community and make it so they can post links to their favorite pics, videos and so on. A Social club so to speak.

Toby · 2012-01-12, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon

...you monetize it somehow...

That's easy, just include a fair amount of your own links within the mix. I've been making a comfortable living doing just exactly that for some time now, but with a TGP instead of a Link List.

Bill · 2012-01-12, 04:44 PM

I have never seen a person put up a link to a tube site or a tube site page. Do you folks see a lot of that kind of thing? care to show examples?

I'm unconvinced that tube supremacy is caused by people posting links to tube sites, or any natural linking. Is that what you folks think causes it?

Embeds maybe. I've seen some blogs using embeds.

Bill · 2012-01-12, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenie

I'd make it look like my last link list, Sunshine Lesbians

Definitely elements of that - but with broader footprint and more content depth.

The new content scroll on the index, definitely.

Toby · 2012-01-12, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

I have never seen a person put up a link to a tube site or a tube site page. Do you folks see a lot of that kind of thing? care to show examples?

I'm unconvinced that tube supremacy is caused by people posting links to tube sites, or any natural linking. Is that what you folks think causes it?

Embeds maybe. I've seen some blogs using embeds.

It's the embedded clips that are responsible for the high number of one-way back links to the large tube sites.

dunc · 2012-01-12, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramster

I'd make a "link list" where people could join as a community and make it so they can post links to their favorite pics, videos and so on. A Social club so to speak.

I was thinking along these lines

Bill · 2012-01-12, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toby

It's the embedded clips that are responsible for the high number of one-way back links to the large tube sites.

The math doesn't seem to fit - high numbers? Maybe.

It's not like everywhere I go I see blogs/splogs with embedded tube clips. I see a few, and they are less common all the time. Embeded sponsor clips are just as easy to use, and make more sense for the blog owner.

I was told the big tubes buy links on a mass scale, and maintain link-buying programs - dunno if it's true.

The most common explantion for tube domination I hear is that they fulfill google algrorithm specs for visitor stickiness and visit times, and direct access to content, rather than links to content, which google devalues. That and rumors of link buying.

I personally can't say I see much natural one-way linking, aside from teh embeds, and I don't see that many embeds. Maybe I'm not looking at the right places.

Toby · 2012-01-12, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

The math doesn't seem to fit - high numbers? Maybe.

Yes, high numbers of embeds. Remember, we're talking about "illegal" tubes for the most part, with long clips. Those are what are getting embedded.

How many pseudo tube sites are out there that are nothing more than scraped embedded clips from other tubes? I can think of several off the top of my head, a few of which used to be large TGPs.

Maj. Stress · 2012-01-12, 06:40 PM

I would build a community blog where people could make blog entries to your site that describes a site, movie clips or pic set that they have. Could even be a blog entry about their favorite phone sex service, sex toy, etc. Linking could be one to one or link from the root of the domain that actually has some juice. This is assuming the blog submitters know a little seo and how to build internal pr. Not that pr has as much weight as it used to but it might still help a little.

Then I would start my own adult social site (twitteresque) and add the "like" button feature. Do you need more details or can you follow it from there?

(I see Ramster has stolen part of my idea already)

Toby · 2012-01-12, 08:27 PM

When you boil it all down it always comes back to the same thing, having site content that people will want to share with others and will come back tomorrow to see what's new.

Bill · 2012-01-12, 10:22 PM

lol, which is roughly equivalent to saying forget it.

we shall see, we shall see.

Bill · 2012-01-12, 11:01 PM

lets see, what would you need to accomplish that, assuming real time and realistic expense levels.

You would need a tube script, a blog script with multiblog support, a bbs script, some staff of personalities to populate teh bbs and blogs and give visitors a reason to stick and use the script functions. And a TGP script, and last and arguably least, a linklist script. And a master CMS platform to hold and support all the sub-scripts.

Then, sources of exclusive content, a model of content submission by users, and the standard assmblage of non-exclusive content. In effect, you are building a big elaborate old-fashioned paysite.

The only really hard part is the staff of personalities, the rest is just money and time, a bit pricey, but doable.

It's the people that make a social site model work, and the most important people are the first adopters and initial personalities. So, it can't be just any staff, it has to be a collection of real characters.

The model of content submission by users would be a critical part - somebody would have to think that out and you might have to get scripts written to backend it.

Let's see, what else might be critical? What else could you do that would make the whole thing explode?

Then there is the other strategic question - if your whole business model is to give away more and more content to get traffic - the general trend - then monetizing with content pretty much guarantees a pattern of diminishing returns.

So, you are still stuck in a monetizing dead end.

So, the real question is, how should/would/could a 'next big thing' model make money?

At least, you'd want to have your own content production paysite system to service your next big thing site - and it could also provid e the exclusive content you need to get visitors to stick.

Bill · 2012-01-12, 11:04 PM

Another path to consider - what if everyone agreed to make freesites way artier and funnier and more complex and crazy and shit?

then linklists become boutique suppliers of porn, rather than lowrent suppliers - attract a different class of sticky customers.

basically, a cultural change.

Toby · 2012-01-13, 12:32 AM

I do pretty well at getting people to come back day after day. The sharing part, not so well, but I haven't really put much time, thought or effort into that either.

Bill · 2012-01-13, 04:33 AM

A fully tricked out drupal installation, joomla also, but drupal is arguably more stable, would accomplish a lot of those things I mention.

Thing is, if this would work, presumably some one among us would be trying it. (Perhaps they are and we aren't holding it up as a model? Maybe marc or kit or possibly tommy is trying it on the qt?)
So presumably there is some principle not yet understood?

Porn bbs's work (for sticky) because they allow surfers to earn the equivalent of reputation points with stolen content.

Tubes work because of stolen content, or the appearance of stolen content when purchased or sponsor-provided content is involved.

Stolen content, the thrill of stealing in a heavily regimented and repressive social strata, might be the missing principle.

So - make them feel like they are getting away with stealing = sticky?

Useless · 2012-01-13, 08:04 AM

So, somewhere between amazingly simple and awesomely complex would be the goal.

In my own fragile opinion, pc and Ramster are on to something with social media/community being a big part of it.

I'll try to add more later, but I'm currently working on my first cup of coffee.

2012-01-11, 11:30 PM	#1
Useless Certified Nice Person Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Dirty Undies, NY Posts: 11,268	If You Were Inventing the Link List Today... So, if you were creating the link list today, as if it hadn't already been around since Greenie invented the Internet, what would you do? What sort of features would it have? What would it look like? Replying "I wouldn't bother" is not acceptable. __________________ Click here to purchase a bridge I'm selling.

2012-01-12, 04:31 AM	#4
mOrrI You can now put whatever you want in this space :) Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 1,083	Well linklists are pretty much a directory IMO. since you gather the "best links there are in the web".... Maybe the reciprocal links should be made diferent, maybe not the old main page to main page, but maybe main page to enter free site page and then the main page of the free site to the linklist... Also in terms of back end the more automated the better... Who need to figure out what is best for u, since now a days there exists a ton of scripts that do a tons of stuff... Today everyone is a webmaster, since you can set a blog in 5 minutes. As a part of Google hatting linklists... well I will say that my linklist is my best ranked site... __________________

2012-01-12, 11:27 AM	#5
LowryBigwood Don't get discouraged; it's usually the last key that opens the lock... Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Dallas, Tx Posts: 1,203	I'd make a site for today's surfers and not worry about recip links.... Like a tube site! __________________ Free Porn Buddy \| Porn Buddy Blog

2012-01-12, 12:32 PM	#6
Greenguy The Original Greenguy (Est'd 1996) & AVN HOF Member - I Crop Pics For Thumbs In My Sleep Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Blasdell, NY (shithole suburb south of Buffalo) Posts: 41,771	I'd make it look like my last link list, Sunshine Lesbians __________________ Promote POV Porn Cash By Building & Submitting Galleries to the Porn Luv Network

2012-01-12, 12:41 PM	#8
Simon That which does not kill us, will try, try again. Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Conch Republic Posts: 5,150	Just my opinions here. I think Lowry is on-target. The links you really want are those you get because the surfer adds your link somewhere. The old 1-to-1 reciprocal linking, or almost any detectable pattern of linking, is a waste of time and can do more harm that good. But wasting time is bad enough. As far as I'm concerned the only two ways a Link List can be valuable in today's Internet are either to: 1). return to it's roots and just be a clean and simple list of great porn, dropping all of the flashy ads and graphics to become a very simple list of links; or 2). become something brand new, which is not what I'd do so I'll leave that for others to discuss. I'm thinking a very simple Link List, almost all text, designed only for the surfer's benefit. Make the links valuable to the surfer so they'll bookmark, return, share. Later, if the traffic warrants it, you monetize it somehow. But from day one you start building your mailing/newsletter list. May turn out that the list is the reason to do it. Just my rambling thoughts. © 2012 __________________ "If you're happy and you know it, think again." -- Guru Pitka

2012-01-11, 11:51 PM	#2
Bill Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip! Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,914	well, I figure you gotta break it up into 'backend' and 'frontend' - with frontend being anything that can be seen by surfers, backend being all link &content management, submission, approval, security, testing, etc. and that's a fucking interesting question...

2012-01-11, 11:59 PM	#3
Bill Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip! Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,914	well, google hates competition and hates the very idea of linklists - so it has to be made to look like it's NOT a linklist, structurally. That means massively greater complexity. So at minimum you need something like a script that contains, as a plugin, wordpress. The linklist and blog must fuck and give birth to the b-ll-og. And, the old model of reciprocal linking must be changed at it's structural root - you have to automate a way to constanly be changing recips.

2012-01-12, 12:33 PM	#7
pc Shift Out / X-On Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: unknown Posts: 2,298	I would definitely add FACEBOOK/TWITTER/OPEN ID LOGIN buttons for one fast click login, ( people tend to be very lazy in these days ) and like delicious or stumbleupon allow for bookmarking unlimited amount of sites for each user, sort of a private bookmarks with option for public display. Like LowryBigwood suggested recip link for bookmarks would be a big NO NO, also you need to disable unique links URL and somehow incorporate counter for how many users already bookmarked the same link. Allowing submitters/users to populate submitted links to other sites in network would be a nice addition with one simple setting. Having ability to post to incorporated blog and open forum with one login is another nice addition, but starter of this topic know this already Things like auto tagging, rewards for comments and ratings, auto newsletter for registered users, extracting meta data from submitted links, everything that will make submitter / book-marker adding new link fast and painless. Reciprocal links could be awarded with higher positions on your pages and / or additional listing on other sites. Some of the stuff I already implemented into my sites, on some I'm still working. Link lists are not dead, like UW stated in his latest posts, they just need little re-invention. 2c

2012-01-12, 01:44 PM	#10
Ramster Life is good Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 11,687	I'd make a "link list" where people could join as a community and make it so they can post links to their favorite pics, videos and so on. A Social club so to speak. __________________ Pornstar Legends \| Live Cam Model Shows \| Hungarian Girls Skype: robmurray999

2012-01-12, 04:44 PM	#12
Bill Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip! Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,914	I have never seen a person put up a link to a tube site or a tube site page. Do you folks see a lot of that kind of thing? care to show examples? I'm unconvinced that tube supremacy is caused by people posting links to tube sites, or any natural linking. Is that what you folks think causes it? Embeds maybe. I've seen some blogs using embeds.

2012-01-12, 06:40 PM	#18
Maj. Stress Progress rarely comes in buckets, it normally comes in teaspoons Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Dark Side Of Naboo Posts: 1,289	I would build a community blog where people could make blog entries to your site that describes a site, movie clips or pic set that they have. Could even be a blog entry about their favorite phone sex service, sex toy, etc. Linking could be one to one or link from the root of the domain that actually has some juice. This is assuming the blog submitters know a little seo and how to build internal pr. Not that pr has as much weight as it used to but it might still help a little. Then I would start my own adult social site (twitteresque) and add the "like" button feature. Do you need more details or can you follow it from there? (I see Ramster has stolen part of my idea already) Last edited by Maj. Stress; 2012-01-12 at 06:42 PM..

2012-01-12, 08:27 PM	#19
Toby Lonewolf Internet Sales Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Houston Posts: 4,826	When you boil it all down it always comes back to the same thing, having site content that people will want to share with others and will come back tomorrow to see what's new. __________________ Latex Vixens Babes In Boots Well Heeled Women Dressing For Sex Stocking Vixens

2012-01-12, 10:22 PM	#20
Bill Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip! Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,914	lol, which is roughly equivalent to saying forget it. we shall see, we shall see.

2012-01-12, 11:01 PM	#21
Bill Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip! Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,914	lets see, what would you need to accomplish that, assuming real time and realistic expense levels. You would need a tube script, a blog script with multiblog support, a bbs script, some staff of personalities to populate teh bbs and blogs and give visitors a reason to stick and use the script functions. And a TGP script, and last and arguably least, a linklist script. And a master CMS platform to hold and support all the sub-scripts. Then, sources of exclusive content, a model of content submission by users, and the standard assmblage of non-exclusive content. In effect, you are building a big elaborate old-fashioned paysite. The only really hard part is the staff of personalities, the rest is just money and time, a bit pricey, but doable. It's the people that make a social site model work, and the most important people are the first adopters and initial personalities. So, it can't be just any staff, it has to be a collection of real characters. The model of content submission by users would be a critical part - somebody would have to think that out and you might have to get scripts written to backend it. Let's see, what else might be critical? What else could you do that would make the whole thing explode? Then there is the other strategic question - if your whole business model is to give away more and more content to get traffic - the general trend - then monetizing with content pretty much guarantees a pattern of diminishing returns. So, you are still stuck in a monetizing dead end. So, the real question is, how should/would/could a 'next big thing' model make money? At least, you'd want to have your own content production paysite system to service your next big thing site - and it could also provid e the exclusive content you need to get visitors to stick.

2012-01-12, 11:04 PM	#22
Bill Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip! Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,914	Another path to consider - what if everyone agreed to make freesites way artier and funnier and more complex and crazy and shit? then linklists become boutique suppliers of porn, rather than lowrent suppliers - attract a different class of sticky customers. basically, a cultural change.

2012-01-13, 12:32 AM	#23
Toby Lonewolf Internet Sales Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Houston Posts: 4,826	I do pretty well at getting people to come back day after day. The sharing part, not so well, but I haven't really put much time, thought or effort into that either. __________________ Latex Vixens Babes In Boots Well Heeled Women Dressing For Sex Stocking Vixens

2012-01-13, 04:33 AM	#24
Bill Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip! Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,914	A fully tricked out drupal installation, joomla also, but drupal is arguably more stable, would accomplish a lot of those things I mention. Thing is, if this would work, presumably some one among us would be trying it. (Perhaps they are and we aren't holding it up as a model? Maybe marc or kit or possibly tommy is trying it on the qt?) So presumably there is some principle not yet understood? Porn bbs's work (for sticky) because they allow surfers to earn the equivalent of reputation points with stolen content. Tubes work because of stolen content, or the appearance of stolen content when purchased or sponsor-provided content is involved. Stolen content, the thrill of stealing in a heavily regimented and repressive social strata, might be the missing principle. So - make them feel like they are getting away with stealing = sticky?

2012-01-13, 08:04 AM	#25
Useless Certified Nice Person Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Dirty Undies, NY Posts: 11,268	So, somewhere between amazingly simple and awesomely complex would be the goal. In my own fragile opinion, pc and Ramster are on to something with social media/community being a big part of it. I'll try to add more later, but I'm currently working on my first cup of coffee. __________________ Click here to purchase a bridge I'm selling.