1001 questions from a newbie.... me.

[Kisa]

Let me preface this by stating that I knew nothing about freesites, etc until about a month ago. After that, I decided that I wanted to give it a try. Of course, I had no idea how to actually build a website outside of yahoo site builder! So I signed up with reliablehosting and tried really really hard not to make an ass of myself. Over the course of the past couple of weeks I found myself chanting the same mantra over and over, 'neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed to have an affair with a programmer...' Anyway, I really like it and aside from the occasional 'what the F?' response to some content, I'm forging ahead.

So here I go:

This is my site-

http://www.sexysascha.com

and here's my blog (I did not have the patience for thumblogger since I was already teaching myself webdesign) http://sexysascha.sensualwriter.com/

1. My approach is to just pretty much be myself. I don't really know enough to do anything otherwise. I'm submitting and so far that's going okay with a couple of exceptions. I blocked all IPs from Russia which also means Layered Technologies. So I'm getting some kickbacks from those plus some others who say I'm not a freesite??

2. Revshare vs. per signup? No clue.

3. I don't understand PornAccess??? I keep going back thinking it will unravel but everytime I try to understand their system, there's just sort of a dead humming in my brain.

4. Are the conventions like the one just in Amsterdam worth it? (mostly, I just want to go.)

Okay, I'll spare you the other 997 questions I have. And yeah, I'm a little nervous about being so forthcoming....

And if you just read all of that! Then THANK YOU!!!

[annie_cash]

Originally Posted by Kisa

So I'm getting some kickbacks from those plus some others who say I'm not a freesite??

If you are submitting your site to link lists (ie: Link-o-rama, Penisbot, etc) you will get rejected because your site is not the kind of "freesite" they list. These free sites are composed of an index page that leads to a main page with links to the galleries and yours is more like a hub. Maybe this will help.

[Kisa]

Thanks Annie- That makes sense. So freesite follows a specific format... hmmm... I see... thank you for taking a look

[Bill]

Well, I'd say you should start with persignup, but ultimately it's personal preference. Most people try to get the right balance of the two kinds of sponsors.

It's very cheering to get a few $30-40 signups when you are starting out.

Most people here will suggest you start building up your traffic by building and submitting freesites. It's the cheapest and safest way to start. However, nothing is as easy as it used to be, so even with freesites you'll have to make some effort getting private submitting acounts with some of the linklists.

The work you've done buildng your site will give you most of the skills you need to build freesites.

Study the sponsors. They write the checks, so you need to understand them.

[ned02]

You have a warning page which makes your second "welcome" page redundant.
If your gonna stick with the warning page then put all that written crap on it too.

They came for the "porn" you better start dishing it up fast.
Most surfers make a decision on whether to stay or not in under 3 seconds.
You have nothing to attract their eye.
Your "welcome" page is way too tame and way to complicated. You give there wanker instructions on what you are going to do and when. Wankers don't care! Wankers want porn and they want it now...not a set of crappy instructions. If your porn is good they just might buy some.
Surf around baby, it's no holes barred out there...tame equals lame!

Personally the warning page will only kill your ranking at Google and every other search engine on the planet.
Lose it fast and give the surfer some content on first contact.
It's rough out there and sales are freakin' hard to come by.

Also the mumbo jumbo about the site not being for the sexually repressed yaddy yaddy ya...no one cares...they came for porn so give 'em the porn.

As far as per sign-up or rev share it don't make shit all of a difference. The surfer has no idea what per sign-up or rev share is anyway. If you think the ref code is gonna influence their decision whether to buy or not, well that's just nonsense.
The real name of the game is to team up with a sponsor that won't cheat you blind no matter what kind of payment you choose to receive.
Larry's O.K. but his payout thresholds are very high. Makes it hard for a newbie.

Good Luck

[NY Jester]

Just a word to the wise.. do not change your main domain site to the "freesite" format mentioned above. The key is to build several (hundred) mini free sites on one domain in separate directories. sexysasha.com/freesite1/ sexysasha.com/freesite2/ and right on down the line.

I cant answer on pornaccess because Im not a webmaster of their program.

Id go with PPS until you get some traffic and see that what you're doing is bringing results


as for your blog...I'd install wordpress on your domain and save the traffic for your own domain rather than a free host. But if thats not an option, then Id write your posts as if you were the customer and describing what you saw..and dont use CLICK HERE to send the surfers off. hilight keywords in your post and link from that.

[Kisa]

Thanks for your input Ned. I appreciate it! I guess all that stuff is the marketing person in me who went from being an overpaid, Bay Area ad exec to just another casualty of this grandly fucked up economy. From the few weeks I've been around, I can honestly say that if some of the people running this industry were out there contributing in more of the mainstream companies, we'd be much better off! I'm serious! I can't tell you how many dumbasses who are supposed 'internet marketing' geniuses, I've worked with! If I make even a couple of dollars doing this then it's a bonus because really I became obsessed because of the structure of it all and what I'm learning is invaluable! Seriously, porn webmasters need to takeover everywhere- my snobby neighbor is an executive at CNET and thinks himself the master of internet marketing. I promise anyone of you could do his job ten times over in your sleep!

About the warning page, I thought that was required? But I don't mind getting rid of it. So am I screwed already because google has been crawling my site like crazy the past week?

NY Jester- thanks so much for your advice too! Yeah, I like what you said about the structure and that's basically what I've been doing without really knowing if that's what I was supposed to be doing. hahaha

Yeah I can definitely install wordpress on my domain... I never thought about the 'sending people' away thing. SEE! All those years in the internet/ tech industry and I never thought of that! And NO! That's not why I lost my job! heh Maybe one of you should take over Yahoo....

Okay, this is all great advice. I'll definitely be making the changes. Thanks so much. I can't wait to learn more-

[Useless]

First, let's establish what your site is. It is, of course, a free site, but, as stated, it is far from being the type of free site that most link lists will considering listing. But you don't need to change anything about your current site to get in on the free site game. You'll want to learn how to optimize it for sales and drive traffic to it from your submitted free sites though.

The free sites which they want are incredibly simple little things consisting of four pages: An index/warning/reciprocal link page, a 'main' page, and two photo or movie galleries. Take the time surf link lists like This Depraved World, Liquisexxx, Floyd's Dirty Porn Links, and PerveSpace. Surf their category pages and analyze what you see listed there.

There's nothing at all wrong with a warning page and the search engines aren't going to penalize you for having one. Most people here use warning pages on their hubs, link lists, etc, as do I, except I tend to warn people that there is adult content ahead by having Flash movies of porn stars scrogging on my warning pages. Some have extremely minimalistic warning pages, like yours, while others use it as a massive link trading platform.

1 - I'm not sure why you'd deny Russian IPs. China is considered an all-around useless traffic source, so go ahead and deny them, but not Russia. As you've discovered, a few Russians own some very powerful traffic sites and you'll want to have a good relationship with them.

2 - On the topic of revshare versus per sign-up, the most important thing for you is finding a niche that you enjoy and a sponsor (or several) that makes it easy for you to promote them, exempli gratia, easy to find link codes, content, banners, etc. You'll find it far simpler and quicker to promote something that you enjoy and can understand why others would enjoy it as well. Stay way from anal creampie snowballing for awhile - Ponygirl has that covered.

3 - If you don't understand PornAccess, then don't promote them. That was easy!

4 - I've been to a couple of conventions and didn't do any business at them. Some people, such as Ramster and Preacher, are much more business-minded than I, so they have the ability to pursue business contacts, even at a party. I fail in that aspect, as I do in many aspects. I go to hang out with people and tend to forget the whole purpose for the convention. And in all reality, my business plan is very different from theirs, so I have no great to strike up a conversation with a sponsor rep, unless, of course, she's a cutie.

[ned02]

Originally Posted by Kisa

I guess all that stuff is the marketing person in me who went from being an overpaid, Bay Area ad exec to just another casualty of this grandly fucked up economy.

Just by the way, if your looking to replace the income of an overpaid Bay area exec, don't believe anything you read about incomes in the adult industry, especially if you are a newbie. It will take you years and years to come even close to replacing an executive salary. If you're lucky and put in a good forty hour week, you may make enough to buy a case of the cheapest beer once a month.

If you have a family to support or a mortgage etc.. then do the porn thing on the side, on weekends only, and get out there and find another day job.

The "grandly fucked up economy" as you put it, has absolutely had an effect on the adult biz as well.
Not to mention years of steadily declining sales due to the overwhelming quantity of free stuff out there.

As well you seem to think that porn business people are leaders in the internet marketing field.
Well just for the record, that may have been a long time ago.
Porn marketing has been surpassed and out gunned by mainstream innovation for a good while now.

Also to note, get more opinions! If this forum exists what are the chances there will be others like this out there?
Every board has it's slant and the more hills you look at the better.

The best thing for you to do right now is find a real job and keep porn a hobby.
Surf it deeply, make a few purchases, observe, take notes, build your site and have fun, because unless you have a massive amount of capital to pump into a leaking ship you really are not going to make any kind of serious coin.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Kisa

From the few weeks I've been around, I can honestly say that if some of the people running this industry were out there contributing in more of the mainstream companies, we'd be much better off! I'm serious! I can't tell you how many dumbasses who are supposed 'internet marketing' geniuses, I've worked with! ... Seriously, porn webmasters need to takeover everywhere- my snobby neighbor is an executive at CNET and thinks himself the master of internet marketing. I promise anyone of you could do his job ten times over in your sleep!

Ain't that the fuckin truth.

And we spend our own money doing this, not investment money.

Mainstream is a pit of degenerates and frauds with antique business models, compared to the adult sector.

However, despite all the claims about the money in adult - claims inflated and invented by the media - ultimately the pool of money in mainstream is much much bigger.

The business owners in adult are way more honest tho. Affiliates get treated better.

---

And, the end of the 'long tail' and the centralisation of traffic is a trend affecting adult as much as mainstream. Which is another way of saying the adult game has gotten a hell of a lot trickier than it used to be.

It's not like the old days. Way back at the turn of the millenium.

[Kisa]

thanks again for all of this. Yeah, that's the one thing I can't figure out is the money part. I've had a lot of fun figuring out how to build things and working on making things better, etc but that whole 'income' thing hasn't really registered because from day one, I haven't been able to figure out why anyone would buy a pass or join???? I mean sure there's the logical reason of getting the whole package or just making it easier and knowing exactly where to go but with sooooo much content out there, I'm not sure the average consumer would be satisfied with one membership even if it's a megapass???? I don't know. Just can't figure that one out...

As far as money out there in the world goes, I think the money any of us made a few years ago regardless of the industry is more or less gone. I don't think we'll be seeing those gravy days for a long time. When I look back a few years ago at what my husband and I were bringing in, I'm a little shocked. Everyone was overpaid but we became accustomed to it and it's not that we were buying homes we couldn't afford, or livin' large... it's that the home prices had over inflated just as the salaries did. And the cost of living in general had readjusted. So the salaries may have seemed big to the rest of the world, but out here, they were simply average and didn't exactly go a long way. It's a mess. It really is a mess. So no, I don't have delusions on that end of this but it has filled a space of time and kept me distracted. It has been like a giant puzzle and so I've enjoyed it. There REALLY IS a big gap between what women like, want, etc and what men like! This experiment continues to fascinate me.

Russia. Well, I lived and worked in Russia for a long time and I know the laws and I know the criminals. My paternal side of my family is Russian, I speak the language and it's all very close to my heart but I don't want them going anywhere near my site. Porn is illegal in Russia, which is a joke. It's beyond laughable this law. Yeah, porn is illegal but there are no laws against filming or photographing the underage. And I'm guessing Russia rationalized their mass trafficking of this crap as the rest of the world's problem... not theirs. In reality, it's not that hard to track some of these assholes but the Russian government will not cooperate. I used to have so much fun in Moscow but I can tell you that working in Russia is a bit like this . It's getting so bad over there with the dropping oil prices, Putin's obsession, etc.... But that's a whole other story! Layered Technologies is constantly being called out for their relationships to RBN and other known criminal orgs in Russia but it's likely that Layered is hardly the only company either working directly with or simply supplying a service to an unknown criminal entity. And yeah, China is right there with them and their intent is definitely malicious and much more ominous to our country as a whole. So I guess you could say that my blocking of IPs is more symbolic than anything. It doesn't really add up to anything.... just my own little personal protest.

Oy- well now I'm kind of bummed out But I'll be over it in a couple of minutes....

[ned02]

Originally Posted by Bill

The business owners in adult are way more honest tho. Affiliates get treated better.

Highly debatable.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by ned02

Highly debatable.

mebbe so. I only make a few hundred a year in mainstream anymore, so perhaps things have changed a lot from the days when I was working on both, and mainstream sponsors were notorious for being difficult to deal with.

mebbe adsense changed all that.

The mainstream vs adult topic has been discussed many hundreds of times over the years, so it's hardly like this is the first time i've heard your argument be made.

but, if you think mainstream sponsors are great, and adult sponsors are untrustworthy, why bother with adult?

Like I don't already know the answer to that rhetorical question.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Kisa

I haven't been able to figure out why anyone would buy a pass or join????

Well, it's not a rational decision making process that results in a sale.

We're assisting a biochemical reward process in the surfers brain.

It's pretty much the ultimate in impulse selling.

[ned02]

Originally Posted by Bill

if you think mainstream sponsors are great, and adult sponsors are untrustworthy, why bother with adult?

Actually Bill I think all affiliate programs, be it adult or mainstream, cheat their asses off.

I believe there is wide spread fraud on every level and at every turn on the part of affiliates, sponsors and surfers alike.

The biggest part of the problem is the business model on which the sponsor/affiliate relationship is based.

The "trust me I'm gonna pay you" model is hopelessly outdated and anyone participating in it should be very aware that they will in fact get burned at some point.

[Kisa]

Originally Posted by ned02

Actually Bill I think all affiliate programs, be it adult or mainstream, cheat their asses off.

I believe there is wide spread fraud on every level and at every turn on the part of affiliates, sponsors and surfers alike.

The biggest part of the problem is the business model on which the sponsor/affiliate relationship is based.

The "trust me I'm gonna pay you" model is hopelessly outdated and anyone participating in it should be very aware that they will in fact get burned at some point.

well that's another bummer Ned....

anywho- when I got back today, I changed my welcome page... took off all the text you so hated Added content-- still have the warning page up. Think I'll keep it up for now and no time today to adjust anything else BUT I did do what you suggested and I must admit, it looks much better thanks

[tigermom]

Your site looks nice Kisa but it's not a freesite in the way Linklists mean. Here's the thing, you need to bring in masses of traffic to your site to make sales, be them revshare or PPS. Targeted traffic is the name of the game in adult. Your site is fairly general, hardcore babe sort of site, which in my experience is a difficult niche to make sales in, if it can even be called a niche. You may want to explore other niches and focus on something more specific.

As for traffic, you can either start playing the SEO game, or try one of the established traffic sources such as Linklists and TGP's. There's a learning curve for both, but if you get it right, it does generate traffic right away (quality of that traffic is debatable though, especially with TGP).

Adult marketing can be profitable, but it does have a huge learning curve. Take your time and learn, learn, learn. Go over the newbie forum and dig up old threads from the past year or two - make yourself a large coffee and just take a few hours, or days, to do your homework.

Best of luck with it!

[Useless]

Wow - I wrote an absolutely brilliant post here BECAUSE I AM A BRILLIANT GUY, stayed on topic, tried to be helpful and I've been all but ignored. Perhaps I should have been more negative. You seem to respond to that. Are we possibly related? I've noticed that when I try to assist my family, they don't acknowledge my efforts either.

I'm returning to my newbie forum sabbatical until a generous amount of compliments are bestowed upon me by several new board members. But not now. I'm currently quite inconsolable.

[docholly]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Wow - I wrote an absolutely brilliant post here BECAUSE I AM A BRILLIANT GUY, stayed on topic, tried to be helpful and I've been all but ignored. Perhaps I should have been more negative. You seem to respond to that. Are we possibly related? I've noticed that when I try to assist my family, they don't acknowledge my efforts either.

I'm returning to my newbie forum sabbatical until a generous amount of compliments are bestowed upon me by several new board members. But not now. I'm currently quite inconsolable.

Well I read every word on your 1st post here (the 1-4 points) and I'd like to dispute #4.. since you provided numerous photo opts that have lasted almost a year on some folks avatars.. ok maybe in rotation..and you did get to have some porny chick sit on your lap --at least that was the rumor I heard.. so SOMEONE (besides me) thinks you should come to more WM events.

[Kisa]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Wow - I wrote an absolutely brilliant post here BECAUSE I AM A BRILLIANT GUY, stayed on topic, tried to be helpful and I've been all but ignored. Perhaps I should have been more negative. You seem to respond to that. Are we possibly related? I've noticed that when I try to assist my family, they don't acknowledge my efforts either.

I'm returning to my newbie forum sabbatical until a generous amount of compliments are bestowed upon me by several new board members. But not now. I'm currently quite inconsolable.

Hey! I took your advice! I also explained and then admitted that my blocking of Russian IPs was really a pointless endeavor on my part Actually, your post was very thoughtful and helpful. Nothing phases me anymore. Someone can tell me I'm a complete dumbass and I would just shrug with an 'and so?' But seriously, I went back and read your post several times. So thank you very much. You are very wise and generous and I am eternally grateful!!

Tigermom- thanks for taking a look. That was nice. Yeah, I'm definitely all over the place in terms of content... just been trying to figure out what sponsors have what, etc.. It's tough. The niche thing cracks me up because I swear just plain ol' straight fucking is now a niche... maybe it's just a niche no one wants to see)) But this is how I ended up here. Last month, I was skypeing with a porn obsessed German friend and he kept sending me links and my response was always, 'please stop and Jeez! That's NOT what I would want to see anyway!' so he asked what I would like to see if I was interested (trying as he was to be a very clever and tricky little perv). So I played his game and started searching. I ended up on Tiava and became so frustrated because I couldn't find just some basic sexy sex (only way I know how to describe it). And then the worst of the worst of the worst was when I got stuck in those porn sites that won't let you out! WHAT THE F? Anyway, thus began my obsession. My husband and my male friends have been quick to point out that I'm quite out of touch with the male mind and to dirty it up! So I'm trying... I'm just a sucker for sweetness. In that first clip on my welcome page, the whole reason I chose it is because the guy takes his hand and gently strokes her back! hahahahaha... not really a $$ generating approach!

Back to the niche thing...it's hard because everything is so saturated. I don't know. Maybe I could be blowjobs and banjos or titfucking and tubas.... Either way, I agree that I need to start finding a focus

I've learned so much on this board already. I'm still trying to figure out what cheating is. I would just like to say that I would never cheat. I'm kind of a geek this way. So if anyone ever receives a submission from me and thinks it a bit screwy please tell me because I'm much more likely to make a really stupid mistake than to deliberately deceive. I'm finally getting up to speed on the submitting thing and having much more success. The first couple of times were embarrassing. My recips ended up in crazy places on page because I was still trying to figure out the code, and I didn't know what a 'blind' link was... stuff like that... )) I'm learning...

[NY Jester]

Useless ..some Tennis later this week?

[Star Man]

Hey,welcome to the board Kisa.Thats a cute little site you got there.Here's some friendly suggestions that could make your site even better and make you cash a little quicker.

1.Your warning page and your main page look like two different sites.If you can,try designing your warning page a bit like your main page.Surfers like consistency and it just looks better when your whole site flows.

2.The auto movie with sound on your main page is annoying and will probably cause many surfers to shut the window down immediately.Many times,porn surfers surf for porn when they really shouldn't and it's something thats done after the wife and kids are sleeping or done at work.Obviously "FUCK ME HARDER!' blasting from the speakers is instant B-B-B-B-BUSTED! so you may want to consider losing the sound.

3.Once surfers hit a new porn site,the first thing thats going through their heads is 'Wheres the free shit?' and if they don't see anything after 5 seconds of looking around,their gone.The little content your site currently has at the moment isn't much so why not toss up some free hosted galleries provided by your sponsor to start off? It keeps surfers entertained and it's one more opportunity to make a sale.

4.Looks like your running a porn site and a blog at the same time.When first starting out,I think the best thing to do would be to pick a single project and hit it hard.Then once you get it down and your making a bit of cash,pick up another project.

Anyhow,I hope my suggestions are helpful.Good luck.

[Kisa]

Originally Posted by Star Man

Hey,welcome to the board Kisa.Thats a cute little site you got there.Here's some friendly suggestions that could make your site even better and make you cash a little quicker.

1.Your warning page and your main page look like two different sites.If you can,try designing your warning page a bit like your main page.Surfers like consistency and it just looks better when your whole site flows.

2.The auto movie with sound on your main page is annoying and will probably cause many surfers to shut the window down immediately.Many times,porn surfers surf for porn when they really shouldn't and it's something thats done after the wife and kids are sleeping or done at work.Obviously "FUCK ME HARDER!' blasting from the speakers is instant B-B-B-B-BUSTED! so you may want to consider losing the sound.

hahaha okay okay. I get it. I did actually think about this but wasn't sure... I'm working on cleaning it all up right now. This is great advice.

I think for a while I'm just going to have to go remedial short-bus basic until I figure it all out thank you!

[HowlingWulf]

It sounds like you might have an easier time starting with 'for women' type porn. Check out http://www.purpledollars.com/ and maybe you can connect easier.

[Kisa]

Oh thanks Wulf! I was beginning to think the only soft stuff was that 80's Cinemax after dark stuff! Emanuelle in Thailand, Emanuelle in Spain, Emanuelle on a Plane.....

I hope Ned checks back... I made all the changes he and Starman suggested