Fur - how can anybody be comfortable with this?

eman · 2006-04-21, 07:51 AM

A couple of nights ago the BBC screened a programme featuring Paul and Heather McCartney's campaign to ban the trade in dog and cat fur. It amazes me that such a campaign should even be necessary, but sadly the trade in fur is currently at an all-time high.

This horrific video shows animals being skinned alive at a Chinese fur farm. I couldn't watch it all in one sitting. It's one of the most dreadful things I've ever witnessed.
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/videod...video=fur_farm

The TV programme showed extracts from another video in which a frightened but passive GSD (Alsation) was removed from a sack, struck across the face, tied to a fence and then skinned alive.

This cruelty has to stop.

China supplies more than half of the finished fur garments imported for sale in the United States. Even if a fur garment's label says it was made in a European country, the animals were probably raised and slaughtered elsewhere—possibly on an unregulated Chinese fur farm.

You can read more about the campaign here http://www.furisdead.com/feat-heathermills.asp

Jim · 2006-04-21, 07:59 AM

I can't help notice the word peta in the url. That alone makes me not believe a word said. When you look up the word hypocrite in the dictionary, you find peta

2/3s of all animals rescued by peta are put down. And yet, they actively protest humane societies for trying to find people to adopt abused or neglected pets. And when they can't find someone to adopt, they put them down.

I have not looked at the video nor will I. And only because it has peta in the url.

ronnie · 2006-04-21, 09:29 AM

Seems peta often causes more problems then they help. Talk about fanatics. Of course fighting for animals is great, but how they go about it...

ronnie

sue-fl · 2006-04-21, 09:55 AM

I can't believe they use dogs and cats that is disgusting. I also did not look at the clip, can't stand stuff like that. Poor animals

Cleo · 2006-04-21, 10:04 AM

Yeah throw another steak on the grill and walk over to it in your leather shoes.

One of the main reason that I'm a vegetarian is living on farms when I was young.

I do own some leather shoes, we live in an imperfect world, but have no great love of leather either.

The problem with Peta is their fanatical.

Jim · 2006-04-21, 10:16 AM

Fanatical and Hypocritical, Cleo

Surfn · 2006-04-21, 10:19 AM

If I were King of the world I would round them all up and skin them...

SirMoby · 2006-04-21, 10:46 AM

I understand that many animals are treated badly in the fur trade but what about the animals used to make other products?

eman · 2006-04-21, 11:21 AM

Some years ago I saw a TV programme about cats being served up in restaurants in China. The recipe called for the flesh to be of a certain consistency and texture which could only be achieved by plunging the live cat into boiling water, just for a few seconds, so that the fur came away with finger pressure.

The still alive cat was then taken into the kitchen for cooking.

I haven't got an issue with PETA - I don't know enough about them.

My sole purpose in posting was to draw attention to the appalling cruelty inflicted upon animals in China. That's the central issue - not PETA.

stuveltje · 2006-04-21, 11:31 AM

i believe the china people eat all, fom cats and dogs and snakes, i have seen everal programs about it on telly, i will not look at the vid.......

RawAlex · 2006-04-21, 11:44 AM

As my current girlfriend is Chinese, I have had some interesting insights into how china works and what chinese people have lived through.

Chinese people don't lose anything in making food. They have lived for many, many generations with little food, not enough food, and not regular enough supplies of food. So they eat more animals than we would consider (including dogs, cats, and about a million others you wouldn't even think of) and they tend to eat ALL of them.

There is no real rules against animal cruelity in China, so over many years techniques have been developed for the slaughter and processing of these animals that would not be up to our standards here.

Remember also that outside of the cities, many chinese still do not have things like fridges or ice boxes, so most of their food is "bought live" and killed at home, or killed at the market place where they buy it.

The life experience is totally different.

PETA is famous for shocking videos and revealing situations that would offend western (specifically American) eyes. They don't, however, propose any alternatives that are workable or attempt to make things better. They don't have a solution how to feed millions of chinese that would be without enough to eat, but they sure can protest and make a fuss.

If you are not bringing a solution to the table, protesting is just blowing hot air and making yourselves look important.

I don't condone what the people in these videos are doing, I don't think it is right, but I also don't think that it is representive of the entire chinese experience, no more than your local puppy mill is a good indication of how dogs are normally bred for commerical sale.

Alex

stuveltje · 2006-04-21, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eman

Some years ago I saw a TV programme about cats being served up in restaurants in China. The recipe called for the flesh to be of a certain consistency and texture which could only be achieved by plunging the live cat into boiling water, just for a few seconds, so that the fur came away with finger pressure.

The still alive cat was then taken into the kitchen for cooking.

I haven't got an issue with PETA - I don't know enough about them.

My sole purpose in posting was to draw attention to the appalling cruelty inflicted upon animals in China. That's the central issue - not PETA.

lobsters are cooked alive too and how you call those little things ...schrimps? a lobster does make a sound when it get boiled alive, a kind of high sound thing, ofcourse i dont agree with what they doing, but lobster or cat, both alive cooking but both food for people........i dont know for real what to think about this.

Cleo · 2006-04-21, 12:06 PM

Watch the movie Powder where he touches the dying deer that the hunter just shot and then touches the hunter so that the hunter can feel what the dying deer is feeling.

eman · 2006-04-21, 12:16 PM

I want to do something to help stop this cruelty. There is no justification for skinning a dog, or any other animal alive.

Perhaps I should send Lady Heather McCartney a link to this thread to give her some idea of the low regard in which PETA is held. She might do better to go it alone.

ponygirl · 2006-04-21, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuveltje

lobsters are cooked alive too and how you call those little things ...schrimps? a lobster does make a sound when it get boiled alive, a kind of high sound thing, ofcourse i dont agree with what they doing, but lobster or cat, both alive cooking but both food for people........i dont know for real what to think about this.

cats are cute, lobsters aren't.

To me, clubbing baby seals is abhorrent, eating lobster is not. It's really hard to draw a line - I guess it would depend on your circumstances. If my children were starving to death, would I cook a cat? Probably.

I don't like any type of animal abuse, the least we can do is treat them humanely.

Ponygirl

emmanuelle · 2006-04-21, 12:26 PM

I don't wear fur and never will.
I do however find it a little unsettling that people's shock seems to be more about the slaughter of cute animals or ones that we consider pets, and not about the pain & suffering of all animals in the interest of fashion.
What makes a cat's suffering any more acute than that of any other fur bearing mammal?

stuveltje · 2006-04-21, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponygirl

cats are cute, lobsters aren't.

To me, clubbing baby seals is abhorrent, eating lobster is not. It's really hard to draw a line - I guess it would depend on your circumstances. If my children were starving to death, would I cook a cat? Probably.

I don't like any type of animal abuse, the least we can do is treat them humanely.

Ponygirl

i agree with you, only we talk here about different countries, we have enough food, china probably not, but an animal is an animal, lobster or cat, cow or pig, eskimos eat seals, they also kill seals for their skin, like we in holland kill cows and pigs, and rabbits and whatever we kill to eat and to make clothes off, for us cat is an pet, for china its food, again i dont know what to think about this

bunky2u · 2006-04-21, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RawAlex

As my current girlfriend is Chinese, I have had some interesting insights into how china works and what chinese people have lived through.

Chinese people don't lose anything in making food. They have lived for many, many generations with little food, not enough food, and not regular enough supplies of food. So they eat more animals than we would consider (including dogs, cats, and about a million others you wouldn't even think of) and they tend to eat ALL of them.

There is no real rules against animal cruelity in China, so over many years techniques have been developed for the slaughter and processing of these animals that would not be up to our standards here.

Remember also that outside of the cities, many chinese still do not have things like fridges or ice boxes, so most of their food is "bought live" and killed at home, or killed at the market place where they buy it.

The life experience is totally different.

PETA is famous for shocking videos and revealing situations that would offend western (specifically American) eyes. They don't, however, propose any alternatives that are workable or attempt to make things better. They don't have a solution how to feed millions of chinese that would be without enough to eat, but they sure can protest and make a fuss.

If you are not bringing a solution to the table, protesting is just blowing hot air and making yourselves look important.

I don't condone what the people in these videos are doing, I don't think it is right, but I also don't think that it is representive of the entire chinese experience, no more than your local puppy mill is a good indication of how dogs are normally bred for commerical sale.

Alex

what he said. It's all cultural and relative. A century or so ago in the states and in Canada people didn't have ice boxes and what not. People still needed to eat and a lot of the time it was a fresh kill. We can assume that the animals were killed quickly before they were butchered.

When you are poor and starving you make do with what you have. That is something most Western societies agree on... they just have a hard time wrapping their heads around skinning something that's alive. Our societies tend to Humanize animals... we transpose our feelings on to them, we think of them as having human like characteristics... all that is fine.

In China and other Asian countries, a dog is a dog and can be eaten. They are very certain that the dog, cat, pig has no emotions or feelings and is put there for their consumption.

As per the fur trade... those who like fur don't care where it comes from. They care if it looks good on them...

bunky

stuveltje · 2006-04-21, 12:42 PM

mm what makes fur so different from leather? leather stuff is more sold then fur, and both involved animals killed for their skin, and not to mntion the crocodile skin, snake skin

Lemmy · 2006-04-21, 12:43 PM

I have no more of a moral problem with people eating cats, dogs or baby seals than I have with them eating cows and pigs, but no-one has ever gone hungry because he couldn't kill an animal in a horribly painful way.

Being at the top of the food chain gives us the power to do whatever we want to those creatures below us. They're all living beings with feelings, both emotional and physical. How we treat them is a measure of how evolved we are as humans.

binxgook · 2006-04-21, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemmy

I have no more of a moral problem with people eating cats, dogs or baby seals than I have with them eating cows and pigs, but no-one has ever gone hungry because he couldn't kill an animal in a horribly painful way.

Being at the top of the food chain gives us the power to do whatever we want to those creatures below us. They're all living beings with feelings, both emotional and physical. How we treat them is a measure of how evolved we are as humans.

Well said Lemmy

Jim · 2006-04-21, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunky2u

As per the fur trade... those who like fur don't care where it comes from. They care if it looks good on them...

bunky

My Mother left my wife 2 full length Mink Coats. One Brown and one Black. Damn, she looks good in them

I don't like the killing of Cats, Dogs or any other domesticated animal. But I do like my leather coat, leather belts, leather boots, steaks and my favorite...cold lamb chop sandwiches

We have those pointy front teeth for a reason (I forget, what are they called

). And the reason isn't to chew celery.

Cleo · 2006-04-21, 03:14 PM

Haven't eaten meat or fish in over twenty years and I'm very healthy and don't crave meat at all.

Useless · 2006-04-21, 03:38 PM

Leather is most often a product of an animal that is being slaughtered for its meat AND hide.

Fur is most often a product of animal being slaughtered for its hide. A cosmetic thing, not a survival thing.

But whether one chooses to consume, wear, or make a pet of any living being, it shouldn't be so fucking much to ask that those animals be given a little respect. I eat meat and I own leather goods, but I don't want the animals' lives to be full of pain and torture and I sure as hell don't want them skinned alive. I'm far from being a perfect human (I eat KFC on occasion), but I at least I have some level of understanding about our bond to the other furry fuckers wandering this planet.

Lemmy

Jim · 2006-04-21, 03:40 PM

Both of my daughters tried to stop eating meat. For both of them, it ended on Thanksgiving

Really, I wish Beef didn't taste so damn good. And I wish I could stop getting pepperoni on my pizza...I know it would be much healthier but, it's just too tasty and I am too weak

But, my hat's off to you Cleo for being able to do it. My only real problem is peta. They are just homeland terrorist's with flunkies to do the dirty work. Could you imagine if everyone did what peta wants them to do? They want all animals to run free. Imagine the cat population, the dog population...all running the streets making more and more babies.

And what about the number 2 person at peta? She has diabetes and uses drugs that were tested on animals. Her response when asked..."It's OK because she gets to stay alive to save more animals".

ehhh...I am getting way off track. peta is just one of those hot buttons with me. Years ago, I worked with an ex-employee of peta and even though he still believed in what they were doing, by telling me, he convinced me they were just a cult.

2006-04-21, 07:51 AM	#1
eman Solipsists of the world unite Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: xxx axis Posts: 639	Fur - how can anybody be comfortable with this? A couple of nights ago the BBC screened a programme featuring Paul and Heather McCartney's campaign to ban the trade in dog and cat fur. It amazes me that such a campaign should even be necessary, but sadly the trade in fur is currently at an all-time high. This horrific video shows animals being skinned alive at a Chinese fur farm. I couldn't watch it all in one sitting. It's one of the most dreadful things I've ever witnessed. http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/videod...video=fur_farm The TV programme showed extracts from another video in which a frightened but passive GSD (Alsation) was removed from a sack, struck across the face, tied to a fence and then skinned alive. This cruelty has to stop. China supplies more than half of the finished fur garments imported for sale in the United States. Even if a fur garment's label says it was made in a European country, the animals were probably raised and slaughtered elsewhere—possibly on an unregulated Chinese fur farm. You can read more about the campaign here http://www.furisdead.com/feat-heathermills.asp Last edited by eman; 2006-04-21 at 07:56 AM..

2006-04-21, 10:04 AM	#5
Cleo Subversive filth of the hedonistic decadent West Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Southeast Florida Posts: 27,936	Yeah throw another steak on the grill and walk over to it in your leather shoes. One of the main reason that I'm a vegetarian is living on farms when I was young. I do own some leather shoes, we live in an imperfect world, but have no great love of leather either. The problem with Peta is their fanatical. __________________ Free Rides on Uber and Lyft Uber Car: uberTzTerri Lyft Car: TZ896289

2006-04-21, 10:19 AM	#7
Surfn If you don’t take a chance the Angels won’t dance Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Earth on occasion Posts: 8,812	If I were King of the world I would round them all up and skin them... __________________ Surfn's Links Are you a partner?

2006-04-21, 11:21 AM	#9
eman Solipsists of the world unite Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: xxx axis Posts: 639	Some years ago I saw a TV programme about cats being served up in restaurants in China. The recipe called for the flesh to be of a certain consistency and texture which could only be achieved by plunging the live cat into boiling water, just for a few seconds, so that the fur came away with finger pressure. The still alive cat was then taken into the kitchen for cooking. I haven't got an issue with PETA - I don't know enough about them. My sole purpose in posting was to draw attention to the appalling cruelty inflicted upon animals in China. That's the central issue - not PETA. Last edited by eman; 2006-04-21 at 11:31 AM..

2006-04-21, 11:31 AM	#10
stuveltje Live and learn. And take very careful notes! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Sunny Holland Posts: 6,157	i believe the china people eat all, fom cats and dogs and snakes, i have seen everal programs about it on telly, i will not look at the vid....... __________________ Canadian Sexlinks - submit Erotica search -submit

2006-04-21, 07:59 AM	#2
Jim Banned Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Mohawk, New York Posts: 19,477	I can't help notice the word peta in the url. That alone makes me not believe a word said. When you look up the word hypocrite in the dictionary, you find peta 2/3s of all animals rescued by peta are put down. And yet, they actively protest humane societies for trying to find people to adopt abused or neglected pets. And when they can't find someone to adopt, they put them down. I have not looked at the video nor will I. And only because it has peta in the url.

2006-04-21, 09:29 AM	#3
ronnie Wheither you think you can or you think you can't, Your right. Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: midwest Posts: 2,274	Seems peta often causes more problems then they help. Talk about fanatics. Of course fighting for animals is great, but how they go about it... ronnie

2006-04-21, 09:55 AM	#4
sue-fl You can now put whatever you want in this space :) Join Date: May 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 2,837	I can't believe they use dogs and cats that is disgusting. I also did not look at the clip, can't stand stuff like that. Poor animals

2006-04-21, 10:16 AM	#6
Jim Banned Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Mohawk, New York Posts: 19,477	Fanatical and Hypocritical, Cleo

2006-04-21, 10:46 AM	#8
SirMoby Jim? I heard he's a dirty pornographer. Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 2,706	I understand that many animals are treated badly in the fur trade but what about the animals used to make other products?

2006-04-21, 11:44 AM	#11
RawAlex Took the hint. Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 5,597	As my current girlfriend is Chinese, I have had some interesting insights into how china works and what chinese people have lived through. Chinese people don't lose anything in making food. They have lived for many, many generations with little food, not enough food, and not regular enough supplies of food. So they eat more animals than we would consider (including dogs, cats, and about a million others you wouldn't even think of) and they tend to eat ALL of them. There is no real rules against animal cruelity in China, so over many years techniques have been developed for the slaughter and processing of these animals that would not be up to our standards here. Remember also that outside of the cities, many chinese still do not have things like fridges or ice boxes, so most of their food is "bought live" and killed at home, or killed at the market place where they buy it. The life experience is totally different. PETA is famous for shocking videos and revealing situations that would offend western (specifically American) eyes. They don't, however, propose any alternatives that are workable or attempt to make things better. They don't have a solution how to feed millions of chinese that would be without enough to eat, but they sure can protest and make a fuss. If you are not bringing a solution to the table, protesting is just blowing hot air and making yourselves look important. I don't condone what the people in these videos are doing, I don't think it is right, but I also don't think that it is representive of the entire chinese experience, no more than your local puppy mill is a good indication of how dogs are normally bred for commerical sale. Alex

2006-04-21, 12:06 PM	#13
Cleo Subversive filth of the hedonistic decadent West Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Southeast Florida Posts: 27,936	Watch the movie Powder where he touches the dying deer that the hunter just shot and then touches the hunter so that the hunter can feel what the dying deer is feeling. __________________ Free Rides on Uber and Lyft Uber Car: uberTzTerri Lyft Car: TZ896289

2006-04-21, 12:16 PM	#14
eman Solipsists of the world unite Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: xxx axis Posts: 639	I want to do something to help stop this cruelty. There is no justification for skinning a dog, or any other animal alive. Perhaps I should send Lady Heather McCartney a link to this thread to give her some idea of the low regard in which PETA is held. She might do better to go it alone.

2006-04-21, 12:26 PM	#16
emmanuelle 0100011101100101011001010 1101011001000000100001101 1010000110100101100011 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,441	I don't wear fur and never will. I do however find it a little unsettling that people's shock seems to be more about the slaughter of cute animals or ones that we consider pets, and not about the pain & suffering of all animals in the interest of fashion. What makes a cat's suffering any more acute than that of any other fur bearing mammal?

2006-04-21, 12:42 PM	#19
stuveltje Live and learn. And take very careful notes! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Sunny Holland Posts: 6,157	mm what makes fur so different from leather? leather stuff is more sold then fur, and both involved animals killed for their skin, and not to mntion the crocodile skin, snake skin __________________ Canadian Sexlinks - submit Erotica search -submit

2006-04-21, 12:43 PM	#20
Lemmy You can now put whatever you want in this space :) Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Next door to a kid with a moped. Posts: 1,492	I have no more of a moral problem with people eating cats, dogs or baby seals than I have with them eating cows and pigs, but no-one has ever gone hungry because he couldn't kill an animal in a horribly painful way. Being at the top of the food chain gives us the power to do whatever we want to those creatures below us. They're all living beings with feelings, both emotional and physical. How we treat them is a measure of how evolved we are as humans. __________________ BUY MY PORNSITES!

2006-04-21, 03:14 PM	#23
Cleo Subversive filth of the hedonistic decadent West Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Southeast Florida Posts: 27,936	Haven't eaten meat or fish in over twenty years and I'm very healthy and don't crave meat at all. __________________ Free Rides on Uber and Lyft Uber Car: uberTzTerri Lyft Car: TZ896289

2006-04-21, 03:38 PM	#24
Useless Certified Nice Person Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Dirty Undies, NY Posts: 11,268	Leather is most often a product of an animal that is being slaughtered for its meat AND hide. Fur is most often a product of animal being slaughtered for its hide. A cosmetic thing, not a survival thing. But whether one chooses to consume, wear, or make a pet of any living being, it shouldn't be so fucking much to ask that those animals be given a little respect. I eat meat and I own leather goods, but I don't want the animals' lives to be full of pain and torture and I sure as hell don't want them skinned alive. I'm far from being a perfect human (I eat KFC on occasion), but I at least I have some level of understanding about our bond to the other furry fuckers wandering this planet. Lemmy __________________ Click here to purchase a bridge I'm selling.

2006-04-21, 03:40 PM	#25
Jim Banned Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Mohawk, New York Posts: 19,477	Both of my daughters tried to stop eating meat. For both of them, it ended on Thanksgiving Really, I wish Beef didn't taste so damn good. And I wish I could stop getting pepperoni on my pizza...I know it would be much healthier but, it's just too tasty and I am too weak But, my hat's off to you Cleo for being able to do it. My only real problem is peta. They are just homeland terrorist's with flunkies to do the dirty work. Could you imagine if everyone did what peta wants them to do? They want all animals to run free. Imagine the cat population, the dog population...all running the streets making more and more babies. And what about the number 2 person at peta? She has diabetes and uses drugs that were tested on animals. Her response when asked..."It's OK because she gets to stay alive to save more animals". ehhh...I am getting way off track. peta is just one of those hot buttons with me. Years ago, I worked with an ex-employee of peta and even though he still believed in what they were doing, by telling me, he convinced me they were just a cult.