Would these sites be accepted?

[gaydemon]

I'm working on a project for myself which involves creating small free sites. The sites have several restrictions due to how they are created but the main idea was to create very straight forward, clean (maybe too clean), good free sites that actually might give something to the surfer AND the link lists / directories that list them in terms of good content etc.

So with that in mind, would for example these sites be accepted on any major Straight link lists (with gay categories):

http://sites.pornisation.com/four_yo...uples_fucking/

http://sites.pornisation.com/latino_...r_ready_to_fu/

http://sites.pornisation.com/4_incre...amateur_cocks/

http://sites.pornisation.com/horny_bear_cubs/

http://sites.pornisation.com/ricky_b...2_black_cocks/

Please feel free to critisize. But I think the above free sites gives you a picture of what the restrictions are as well. Layouts are kind of rigid but still try and make them look different.

Are they too clean? Not enough difference in layouts and looks? Would they be accepted?

[Fonz]

They look pretty clean to me. But a few things:

- You're only allowed to use 3 outgoing links per page. On your index pages you're using 6-7.
- Some of your pics are rather small (600 on the long side) LL owners prefer pics a little bigger.
- Also try to avoid mixing movies and pictures, while some LL owners won't mind this others will.
- 4 galleries for a freesite is too much for me personally (it makes reviewing last longer and I'm a lazy bastard )
- try to avoid using banners that contain images that could be seen as clickable thumbs but take you directly to the paysite.
- and don't use subdomains for your freesites

Other than that they look pretty ok to me.

[Mateusz]

Unless you have some kind of arragement with LL owner - NO

You are breaking to many rules to have your sites listed on a standard LL
- subdomains
- to many outgooing links
- some reviewers may not like banners that look like clickable thumbs http://sites.pornisation.com/4_incre...ocks/main.html

And why the hell you need 4 galleries?
From what I've seen those sites with 4-6 galleries are always in gay niche

--------- edit

Ahhh, Fonz replied quicker.. again

[gaydemon]

Really? Interesting..

So:

• I had a mistake in my templates. It should be 4 links in total per index page (except the landing page which would have more due to reciprocal links).
  
  Out of those 4 links, 2 would be the eaxct same (sponsor) link. So is it only really possible to have 3 links that goes to another domain?
  
  But does that also mean I can only have 3 reciprocal links on the landing page? How can you then trade with more than 3 sites?
  
  
• The picture sizes are as big as they come, thats what we as affiliates are provided with by sponsors. So very little choice. Believe me, I've tried to push sponsor to provide better pictures for blogs and sites.
  
  
• 3-4 galleries on gay free sits are pretty much a standard. It can be less but most use 4 galleries.
  
  
• subdomains, why? Subdomains are there to organize or split up a domain if it contains more than 1 site. which this domain does, the main pornisation.com is another site and works differently where as sites.pornisation.com is dedicated to hosting free sites. Sounds like a odd rule to me..
  

It sounds like the straight side of link lists have a lot more to choose from, if I use any of those rules on gaydemon (which is one of the largest gay link lists still existing) I would not have any sites left to list.

Gay free and AVS sites are in 90% of cases really bad, no one creates good sites anymore. At least not that I get to see. So it does surprise me a bit that straight link lists are able to keep such strict rules.

I do wish gay sites where better.. but unfortunatley they are not.

Anyway thanks for those points. Not sure then how I can get accepted its things that are hard to follow.

Originally Posted by Fonz

They look pretty clean to me. But a few things:

- You're only allowed to use 3 outgoing links per page. On your index pages you're using 6-7.
- Some of your pics are rather small (600 on the long side) LL owners prefer pics a little bigger.
- Also try to avoid mixing movies and pictures, while some LL owners won't mind this others will.
- 4 galleries for a freesite is too much for me personally (it makes reviewing last longer and I'm a lazy bastard )
- try to avoid using banners that contain images that could be seen as clickable thumbs but take you directly to the paysite.
- and don't use subdomains for your freesites

Other than that they look pretty ok to me.

[gaydemon]

I've always tried to speak out about using less content, I dont like giving away too much. But in the gay market, you can pretty much get whole paysites for free now. There are so much content and affiliates uses HUGE amount of content in whatever way they promote sites. So if you want to compete you got to at least have a certain Minimum.

For example these free sites I showed here mostly have 36-48 pictures, this means that some larger gay link lists wont list them, not enough content! Which is why I only list them on my own sites to provide my traffic with clean galleries, and on Manpics200.

Gaydemon, Manpics2000 and Hunkhunter I belive is the only Gay link lists with a higher amount of traffic.

Originally Posted by Mateusz

Unless you have some kind of arragement with LL owner - NO

You are breaking to many rules to have your sites listed on a standard LL
- subdomains
- to many outgooing links
- some reviewers may not like banners that look like clickable thumbs http://sites.pornisation.com/4_incre...ocks/main.html

And why the hell you need 4 galleries?
From what I've seen those sites with 4-6 galleries are always in gay niche

--------- edit

Ahhh, Fonz replied quicker.. again

[gaydemon]

What If I offered two versions of site in terms or URL:

http://www.pornisation.com/4_incredible_amateur_cocks/

http://sites.pornisation.com/4_incre...amateur_cocks/

I guess I could always put a robot.txt file in the www telling it not to spider or index those pages.

Seems silly though because they way ive designed these would mean there might be some PR on them at some point, but not on the www.

[Fonz]

Originally Posted by gaydemon

I had a mistake in my templates. It should be 4 links in total per index page (except the landing page which would have more due to reciprocal links).

Out of those 4 links, 2 would be the eaxct same (sponsor) link. So is it only really possible to have 3 links that goes to another domain?

But does that also mean I can only have 3 reciprocal links on the landing page? How can you then trade with more than 3 sites?

3 outgoing links per page means that you can put up 3 links maximum that point to sites outside your freesite, recip links aren't included in those 3 links. You can have 15-20 recips on your index page (I don't know where you make the deifference between index and landing page, they're both the same to me).

Originally Posted by gaydemon

The picture sizes are as big as they come, thats what we as affiliates are provided with by sponsors. So very little choice. Believe me, I've tried to push sponsor to provide better pictures for blogs and sites.

Bigger LL's such al Link-o-Rama require that you have pics with at least 1200 px on both sides combined (length + height). So if you want to egt listed there I suggest you try to find bigger pics.

Originally Posted by gaydemon

3-4 galleries on gay free sits are pretty much a standard. It can be less but most use 4 galleries.

Yeah I heard something about that, never understood why.

Originally Posted by gaydemon

subdomains, why? Subdomains are there to organize or split up a domain if it contains more than 1 site. which this domain does, the main pornisation.com is another site and works differently where as sites.pornisation.com is dedicated to hosting free sites. Sounds like a odd rule to me..

That's an old rule from when sites on subdomains where synonym to freehosting accounts. Mysite.Freehost.com etc. So the user didn't have control over his hosting. I know this is not the case for you but it's a standard rule for so if you want to get listed on the "straight" sites it's best you fiollow it.

[gaydemon]

Thanks for the explenation. Much appriciated.

About those outgoing links. Does 1 banner and 1 text link, both linked to the same URL count as 1 link or 2 links?

Originally Posted by Fonz

3 outgoing links per page means that you can put up 3 links maximum that point to sites outside your freesite, recip links aren't included in those 3 links. You can have 15-20 recips on your index page (I don't know where you make the deifference between index and landing page, they're both the same to me.

I guess straight link lists have such a lot bigger choice from what submissions to accept that you can have these strict rules. I wish we could have the same in the gay side of it. Its pretty awful what we got being created now days, very few good old site builders left.

[Fonz]

Originally Posted by gaydemon

About those outgoing links. Does 1 banner and 1 text link, both linked to the same URL count as 1 link or 2 links?

1 if the text is right below the banner

[gaydemon]

Ah ok,

I presume then that if you have 1 text link on the top of the page, then some "stuff" then a banner at the bottom the two links counts as 2 even if they are linked to the same site.

Interesting, in gay terms the sites I've created are seen as very bare not enough links and banners..

You got any an example of a perfect / very good straight free site?

Originally Posted by Fonz

1 if the text is right below the banner

[Licker4U]

Fairly good straight free site: Here Got a sale yesterday

[Bill]

The gay linklists you mention are like a blast from the past - 1999 rules - it's been wondered many times why they still have the rules they do.

I've subbed sites to you and the other 'big names' in the gay linklist world - and oddly enough, gotten better ratios subbing smaller sites to the straight linklists. ( But maybe I built too clean. )

That could be just a coincidence - but I don't like building sites with 48-50-60 pics to get ratios that are the same or less as sites with 24 pics.

Here's a 'straight linklist' gay site that just made a sale today. Not my best niche, so I'm willing to share it. Not the greatest site...

http://www.gay-interracial-xxx.com/redhead-jarhead/

Yes, those sites you showed would be considered too clean for good sales by the standards of the 50pic gay linklists. Kind of similar to sites I subbed there.

[faxxaff]

Originally Posted by Fonz

That's an old rule from when sites on subdomains where synonym to freehosting accounts. Mysite.Freehost.com etc. So the user didn't have control over his hosting. I know this is not the case for you but it's a standard rule for so if you want to get listed on the "straight" sites it's best you fiollow it.

I think this old rule requires review. We all know how to make a difference between freehosts and domains owned by a submitter. Subdomains are very powerful tools with proper use.

[1freepornfinder]

I like the look of the sites and don't care about the subdomains...

[gaydemon]

Thanks

Its good information though, I actually find it easier to design a site if there are straight guidelines to follow, then at least there is something to aim for.

For me, the only rule that I have problems with and will find hard to solve is the content. On these examples I have used the content as its provided by the sponsors. IE there isnt anything better quality wise from those sponsors.

I should also mention that the sponsors are carefuly selected based on how they have performed over a year on gaydemon.com. So its high converting sites (revshare) which obviously people like since rebills are high on them.

[elKabong]

Originally Posted by gaydemon

For me, the only rule that I have problems with and will find hard to solve is the content.

That problem is simple to solve: buy content.

There are plenty of content providers that sell excellent quality pic sets for $20 or less. Here's a good place to start looking: GG&J Resources

[Mateusz]

Originally Posted by gaydemon

For me, the only rule that I have problems with and will find hard to solve is the content. On these examples I have used the content as its provided by the sponsors. IE there isnt anything better quality wise from those sponsors.

Free content shouldn't be a problem if you dont push just few paysites all the time and/or sponsorts that are oversaturated.
But... from what I'm seeing you are about to submit gay free sites only, and that could be a problem even if you were using bought content. You should spread your submits over few categories

[Sven800]

Originally Posted by Licker4U

Fairly good straight free site: Here Got a sale yesterday

Personally I hate that type of layout since there are tons of thumb nails and I always end up clicking them expecting to see the larger picture. I guess I find that way of laying out a freesite a bit misleading.

[Licker4U]

Originally Posted by Sven800

Personally I hate that type of layout since there are tons of thumb nails and I always end up clicking them expecting to see the larger picture. I guess I find that way of laying out a freesite a bit misleading.

If a surfer is in the mood to click a thumb, and it's not clickable, maybe he/she will click a text link to get to the "good stuff". I consider it "eye candy". To each his own, it worked for me

[gaydemon]

maybe you should try gaydemon again? I wouldnt say gaydemon is a blast from the past, have you seen my site recently? Its format, design, coding and how it works is as up to date as you can get. Certainly not a blast from the past, very much still alive and kicking.

Traffic to free sites from gaydemon is also very good.

But the main reason why I'm creating my own free sites no is because the submissions I get are such low quality. They might follow the "modern day" rules but they look terrible. Sure they have only 3 outgoing links per page but they are a mess, ugly and inspire nothing.

So this is why I've started my own network of sites.

Originally Posted by Bill

The gay linklists you mention are like a blast from the past - 1999 rules - it's been wondered many times why they still have the rules they do.

I've subbed sites to you and the other 'big names' in the gay linklist world - and oddly enough, gotten better ratios subbing smaller sites to the straight linklists. ( But maybe I built too clean. )

That could be just a coincidence - but I don't like building sites with 48-50-60 pics to get ratios that are the same or less as sites with 24 pics.

Here's a 'straight linklist' gay site that just made a sale today. Not my best niche, so I'm willing to share it. Not the greatest site...

http://www.gay-interracial-xxx.com/redhead-jarhead/

Yes, those sites you showed would be considered too clean for good sales by the standards of the 50pic gay linklists. Kind of similar to sites I subbed there.

[gaydemon]

Thanks for all the informaiton and comments.

I've tried to learn from what you all have mentioned and redesigned all 15 templates.

I would really appriciate it if you could take time and have a look and let me know if these sites stands a better chance at getting listed than my previous ones.

please keep in mind that the content is something I cannot do much about, and I fail to see why you would want to buy content rather than using sponsor provided content.. Isn't the point of a free site to give surfers a taste of what they can get?

Anyway, so here are a few examples:

http://www.pornisation.com/sites/you...s_jerking_off/

http://www.pornisation.com/sites/young_hung_and_bold/

http://www.pornisation.com/sites/twinks_screw_tbd/

(full list of all sites and templats can be found here: http://sites.pornisation.com/)

Please ignore the large recip table on the warning page, I'm just testing out what link lists to use and the amount of traffic they have.

Thanks!

[VicD]

Feel free to add some here http://diamondsexlinks.com/

[spacemanspiff]

I've always made an exception to my "too much content" rule (not that I really have a rule like that) with gay sites since so many of the gay link lists have/had a 50 pic minimum. If I didn't I wouldn't have anything to list.

I'd lost those sites as is.

[gaydemon]

I was just about to try and start submitting some of my sites to the larger link lists but will probably not even try.

Most of the link lists asks you to choose a specific reciprocal link button based on what type of content, while I can see why they want that, its totally impractical and not possible to do if you try and create a larger amount of good free sites.

not only that, half of the reciplinks (HTML) are so old and bad HTML that it would break my xhtml designs.

It just seems to me, that the whole link list and submitter relationship is so one sided, making it very difficult for the submitters.

The rules also are strict but fail to address the issue with design and looks, Ive seem some pretty horrible looking sites which I would never want to list. They do comply to the rules though..

Sorry, thats my moan..

So what I wonder is it really worth it? Is the traffic so great that it makes up for all the extra work it takes?

How much traffic can you expect to a single listing, and for how long?

[Bill]

It IS kind of a hassle, dealing with category recip links. Cat recips, as they are called, have this very weird history.

And sorry to tell you, but dynamic sites with xhtml might get looked on with suspicion by some of the better 'straight' linklist owners - if you are well known and trustworthy you can do it, but a new submitter coming in with dynamic sites might be rejected as a possible cheater.

And yes, the relationship is very one-sided - but thats life, one-sided relationships are common everywhere you look. And ESPECIALLY common in the adult traffic biz.

I feel much the same way about places like altagay - gee thanks, you want me to give you 60 pics for you to give your surfer all the jerk-off content he needs. On the other hand, places like altagay accept blind links and more agressive ads.

So I think it boils down to what you've become accustomed too.

How much traffic can you expect to get from a single listing? Not that much. The actual number varies with subniche, but gay traffic is about 20% of straight traffic. It's been a while since I measured actual traffic numbers - however, I'd say that the number is still slowly declining overall, and will probably decline more.

How long does it last? Well, the initial burst doesn't last long, about 2 weeks per listing, but then you get dribbles of traffic for quite a while.