newbie's first site a "mess"

[beholder242]

I finally got my pay site completed after spending several months on it, off-and-on, and have been submitting it to link lists and banner exchanges.

For the most part, I've had decent luck on the link lists, but one of them declined me and wrote back, saying the site is a "mess". I realize that it's not going to be perfect for a first site, and it could use some adjustments, but how exactly is it a "mess"?

I'm open to constructive criticism.

http://www.filipina-fantasy.com

[Prawnie]

Hi beholder, At a quick glance I would suggest tyding up your main.html. When viewed in 800x600 your screen needs to scroll sideways to see the whole page.
I personally put everything inside a 700px table and any additional tables inside at 100% and work from there.

Check your pm. I have redone your coding and included the coding for you. Its only rough, but it wil give you some idea and you can play around with it

[plateman]

useally you dont do a pay site like that with all those traffic leaks, maybe unless you have different doorways into it, most pay sites should be clean and build other free sites to drive traffic to it... hope that helps..

[beholder242]

Originally Posted by Prawnie

Hi beholder, At a quick glance I would suggest tyding up your main.html. When viewed in 800x600 your screen needs to scroll sideways to see the whole page.
I personally put everything inside a 700px table and any additional tables inside at 100% and work from there.

Check your pm. I have redone your coding and included the coding for you. Its only rough, but it wil give you some idea and you can play around with it

Is this something like what you were suggesting?

http://www.filipina-fantasy.com/main1.html

[beholder242]

Originally Posted by plateman

useally you dont do a pay site like that with all those traffic leaks, maybe unless you have different doorways into it, most pay sites should be clean and build other free sites to drive traffic to it... hope that helps..

To be honest, I'm not sure if what I've built qualifies as a free or pay site.

A friend set me up an affiliate program off his server (http://fantasy.asianbabecams.com is the portal) and then I built my site to drive traffic to him, but I had to do things this way because I didn't have the ability to modify his site and add all the link lists and such. Plus, I had the domain name gathering dust and decided to try to get my money back out of it.

Forgive my newbie-ness, but could you explain what you mean by "traffic leaks"?

[Prawnie]

Originally Posted by beholder242

Is this something like what you were suggesting?

http://www.filipina-fantasy.com/main1.html

Nothing there, but I looked at main.html and its much better. No scroll bar at the bottom now

Originally Posted by beholder242

To be honest, I'm not sure if what I've built qualifies as a free or pay site

Me neither. I have no experience with webcam sites. However, when I first went to your page, I was greeted by 16 cams, all accessable. The average lurker out there in pervyland wants something for nothing. By showing all the cams at once, the site holds nothing back to capture the potential member's interest.
Maybe for this main page have either one live cam, or a looping movie of an older session to give the lurker some idea what is inside.
With this, I would put a caption saying " Get access to all the live cams", explaining the chat pay system and a link to either a tour page or to your join page.
If you want to show all 16, make only one clickable.
I was taught.. "give too much away and you will wont get the sales".
If its a paysite you want, take a look at some of the sites out there and see how they are structured.

Forgive my newbie-ness, but could you explain what you mean by "traffic leaks"?

If it is a paysite you intend to do, I always make the site as clean as possible. No recips (simple terms a button or text link to another site) for tgps (thumbgallery post), LL's (Linklist), directories or toplists. They serve no purpose on your site and you want to keep the viewer on your site, not send him away, hence traffic leaks. They clutter up your page, distract the viewing public and in my honest opinion, detract from the overall appearance of the site.
All that is needed is content relevant to your site. Your main priority is getting the public interested, keeping their interest when they are at your site and then convincing them that you have something fantastic to offer..

What plateman is talking about is your page resembles a freesite which is used by paysites to advertise their site and content. Its like a mini tour site which like a gallery will drive the traffic to your site with the potential to sign up.

Hope this helps

[MrYum]

Hey there Beholder

Yup, that's one of my 'canned' decline messages. My script doesn't allow a custom message with each site, so I have these 'canned' reasons set up.

I usually only use the 'mess' decline when there's more than one reason for rejecting the site.
And I'm hoping to get the submitter to come to these forums to ask for assistance. Glad to see you took that advice...the folks here will definitely be able to help

After a quick re-review of your site, the reasons for decline;

The recip table looks kinda oogly (not a decline on its own).
I don't allow page counters.
Your PK recip button isn't linked. Also I highly doubt that PK would list a site with her recip below the enter link. Hoping her button isn't just there to make it appear that the site was submitted to her...that would be a bad thing.
Your mouseovers are incorrect...they should only state the sponsor site url...nothing more.
And finally, there's really no content on your site. Just sponsor links driving the asian cam site.
If you want to push traffic to that site, you'll do much better with some form of free site structure that's acceptable to link lists. Which was exactly why I pointed you to this board

[beholder242]

Originally Posted by MrYum

Hey there Beholder

Yup, that's one of my 'canned' decline messages. My script doesn't allow a custom message with each site, so I have these 'canned' reasons set up.

I usually only use the 'mess' decline when there's more than one reason for rejecting the site.
And I'm hoping to get the submitter to come to these forums to ask for assistance. Glad to see you took that advice...the folks here will definitely be able to help

After a quick re-review of your site, the reasons for decline;

The recip table looks kinda oogly (not a decline on its own).
I don't allow page counters.
Your PK recip button isn't linked. Also I highly doubt that PK would list a site with her recip below the enter link. Hoping her button isn't just there to make it appear that the site was submitted to her...that would be a bad thing.
Your mouseovers are incorrect...they should only state the sponsor site url...nothing more.
And finally, there's really no content on your site. Just sponsor links driving the asian cam site.
If you want to push traffic to that site, you'll do much better with some form of free site structure that's acceptable to link lists. Which was exactly why I pointed you to this board

OK, to address each item.

The recip table looks nasty because everyone's got their own unique, non-standard recip of varying sizes and modifying them is typically a no-no. Personally, I prefer graphic links, like you see after you enter, although they do use extra bandwidth.

I missed assigning the link on PK's recip graphic. That is fixed. I put it where I did because (if memory serves) her rules did not specify that it had to be above the Enter button, but did have to be on the page that I submitted to be linked to. I covered my bases and put her links on the index.html and main.html pages.

Which sponsor links are you referring to when you talk about mouseovers?

I'm confused about something...could you explain a bit more about the criteria needed to submit my site to your link list in the "Live Webcams" category? And what would qualify as an "acceptable free site structure"?

[MrYum]

Originally Posted by beholder242

OK, to address each item.

The recip table looks nasty because everyone's got their own unique, non-standard recip of varying sizes and modifying them is typically a no-no. Personally, I prefer graphic links, like you see after you enter, although they do use extra bandwidth.

I missed assigning the link on PK's recip graphic. That is fixed. I put it where I did because (if memory serves) her rules did not specify that it had to be above the Enter button, but did have to be on the page that I submitted to be linked to. I covered my bases and put her links on the index.html and main.html pages.

Which sponsor links are you referring to when you talk about mouseovers?

I'm confused about something...could you explain a bit more about the criteria needed to submit my site to your link list in the "Live Webcams" category? And what would qualify as an "acceptable free site structure"?

Yep, if you try to use everyone's regular recips and that many recips...things tend to get ugly. However, very few if any link sites have a problem with you using text only links (as long as you leave the anchor text intact). This enables you to build cleaner recip tables while still using a fairly large number of recips. If you want to use the exact recips the link lists provide, it almost demands fewer recips to keep the site looking clean.

Ah, my bad...just assumed PK wanted her recip above the enter link like almost all other link sites. If she's good with it, that's all that matters

The mouseover comment pertains to the 'chat free with blah blah blah' part of your mouseovers. Most link sites prefer a simple url only mouseover if mouseovers are used at all. Ex. "www.domain.com"

Also, just noticed you've got java script on the main page. Another no no on free sites for many link lists...mine included. Too many exploits and lack of webmaster control when pulled from another domain.

Probably the simplest way to find out what link sites will list in their live webcams category is to look at some of the sites listed. Personally, when I build for cams sites...I do so with still images. Using the live cams as the upsell. You will find variance in what link lists will accept in their cams category. When I run across a link list that won't list still images in the cams category, I submit to amateur.

As to acceptable free site structure, I think most list owners are at lease somewhat flexible. Again, take a look at what's listed at some of the lists and you'll get a pretty good idea of what it takes to get listed. However, a single page of recips...followed by a page of javascript...probably isn't going to get listed in many places

Think that addresses your questions

One thing though, don't want you to think I'm raggin on ya here Beholder. Everyone has a learning curve when first getting into free sites. You're in the best place you can be to learn how to build sites that DO get listed

[Useless]

Originally Posted by beholder242

The recip table looks nasty because everyone's got their own unique, non-standard recip of varying sizes and modifying them is typically a no-no.

OK, I'm calling bullshit Most free site submitters use the text recips provided to them by the link lists. The only reason yours looks a little tacky is due to the white bgcolor. Otherwise it would look normal. It's fairly well balanced.

I'm not going to bother reviewing the rest of the site since it's obviously not a listable free site. My suggestion would be for you to first read a couple of rules pages, then surf some link lists and check out a bunch of listed free sites. That'll give you a better idea of a free site is than I can do by talking all day.

[beholder242]

Originally Posted by MrYum

Yep, if you try to use everyone's regular recips and that many recips...things tend to get ugly. However, very few if any link sites have a problem with you using text only links (as long as you leave the anchor text intact). This enables you to build cleaner recip tables while still using a fairly large number of recips. If you want to use the exact recips the link lists provide, it almost demands fewer recips to keep the site looking clean.

Ah, my bad...just assumed PK wanted her recip above the enter link like almost all other link sites. If she's good with it, that's all that matters

The mouseover comment pertains to the 'chat free with blah blah blah' part of your mouseovers. Most link sites prefer a simple url only mouseover if mouseovers are used at all. Ex. "www.domain.com"

Also, just noticed you've got java script on the main page. Another no no on free sites for many link lists...mine included. Too many exploits and lack of webmaster control when pulled from another domain.

Probably the simplest way to find out what link sites will list in their live webcams category is to look at some of the sites listed. Personally, when I build for cams sites...I do so with still images. Using the live cams as the upsell. You will find variance in what link lists will accept in their cams category. When I run across a link list that won't list still images in the cams category, I submit to amateur.

As to acceptable free site structure, I think most list owners are at lease somewhat flexible. Again, take a look at what's listed at some of the lists and you'll get a pretty good idea of what it takes to get listed. However, a single page of recips...followed by a page of javascript...probably isn't going to get listed in many places

Think that addresses your questions

One thing though, don't want you to think I'm raggin on ya here Beholder. Everyone has a learning curve when first getting into free sites. You're in the best place you can be to learn how to build sites that DO get listed

Before I listed my site on the link lists that I did list it on, I researched them and checked the recip requirements. Everyone has their own unique demands as far as link placement goes (some require index page, others are more lenient) and link type. As I said before, I like the graphic links because they stand out more, but if it's going to get me docked points to use so many graphical ones, then I can go back and change the ones that allow you to make your own link or have simple text ones.

I don't know if PK is OK with my link placement yet as I have not heard back from her.

The javascript is necessary to embed the live cams directory into the site. My server is not the same as the sponsor's server and I do not have authoring capability on the sponsor's server, so this would seem to be my only option to generate a live list of what girls are online. Personally, I'd prefer using PHP, but some link lists consider that a dealbreaker because cheaters apparently use PHP. The mouseovers on the live cams page are also not under my control. It took 3 months just to get the javascript implemented by the sponsor site's owner, so I'm not sure if I want to wait another 3 months for him to knock up something else. By that time, the domains will have expired and it'll be a moot point.

Still images for cam sites? So, for example, you grab a bunch of the profile pics of the girls, put them on the page, and then have each picture link to the live "Who's Online" page, like I've seen others do?

I know you're not ragging on me, but I've seen too many sites get listed on link lists or come back in search results from google that when you go to the site, and see a picture of a girl that looks good, and click on her pic, you go somewhere completely where you were not expecting to go. I guess I wanted my site that if you clicked on Jemma's live cam, you went to Jemma's live chat room, instead of winding up at some entrance page that doesn't seem to have anything to do with the picture you clicked on.

[beholder242]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

OK, I'm calling bullshit Most free site submitters use the text recips provided to them by the link lists. The only reason yours looks a little tacky is due to the white bgcolor. Otherwise it would look normal. It's fairly well balanced.

I'm not going to bother reviewing the rest of the site since it's obviously not a listable free site. My suggestion would be for you to first read a couple of rules pages, then surf some link lists and check out a bunch of listed free sites. That'll give you a better idea of a free site is than I can do by talking all day.

I'm not sure if what I'm about to write confirms or denies your first comment about free site submitters using the text recips provided, but when I went through and submitted my site, many of the link list rules said that you had to use the recips as written and modifying them could cause them to not be acknowledged by the list's spiders/robots/etc. That's why I used them as provided. I could probably rearrange the recips for a tighter table.

Here's one of the things that I'm unclear on. What qualifies as a free site? For instance, NOTHING on the domain www.filipina-fantasy.com costs anything. Heck, each girls' live chat room is free with video, until you want her to get naked, then you have to pay, but the live chat room itself and everything that happens from that point on, comes from the sponsor's server. Or does my site qualify as a pay site because at some point along the line to until the viewer reaches his ultimate gratification, there is a point that the viewer must pay something? If the second is the case, then I'd say that over 50% of the sites listing on any given link list as free are in fact pay sites, and I've looked at many link lists and the destinations of those links, beyond the ones I've listed on so far. I know I'm getting technical, but I came here for guidance and advice, so....

[MrYum]

There have been a few threads on this board regarding recips and slight alterations thereto. I don't recall a single link list that was averse to changes, as long as anchor text/title tags(if used) remained intact. Someone please jump in here if I'm mis-remembering those threads.

I know what you're saying about the java script. But, the thing is...if the link site wanted to provide that content, they could just as easily sign up and use the same java script on their own pages.

The basic relationship between a free site submitter and a link list is the free site submitter provides content for the link list. The link list provides traffic in return.

Your site as it stands now really doesn't provide any content to the link list. All it does provide is sponsor links that again, the link list could easily provide themselves and keep any revenue generated.

If I were you and wanted to pursue this site as it is...I'd build small 20 or 30 pic feeder sites in sub-directories on the same domain...perhaps one for each girl. These feeder sites would be submitted to the link lists. You could use a link or two on these feeder sites back to the main site as a hub. This would provide some extra linkage to the root of the site and eventually some se traffic.

But, as the sites stands now...I think you're going to have a hard time getting it listed as a 'free site'. Because, the only free content provided isn't really even on the site

Forgot to mention...

Regarding your comments about sites with pics linking to sponsors and such. That's one of many things list lists deal with on a daily basis. Believe it or not, there are cheaters out there that change sites after they've been accepted by the link lists. Shocking I know! Cocksuckers

Some link list scripts are more adept than others at catching the assclowns. Some are not, so you very well may see sites listed that don't comply with the rules.

[Useless]

Here's a simple description of a basic free site:

Index page - Title, warning, up to 3 links out to sponsor or hub, enter link to main page.

Main page - Title, up to 3 links out, links to gallery pages.

Gallery page - Title, 10-15 thumbs linked to full sized pics, up to 3 links out.

Most free sites have 2 gallery pages, some have three. Do not go over three. You don't have to have the title printed on each page, but I personally like to see it. Keep the same style/aesthetic throughout the site. Do not put a free site on the root of your domain. Put it in a subdirectory (not subdomain), that way you can put many free sites on a single domain.