a affiliate who uses my content for evil

[Mike]

This is too funny... it's like being back in 1994

I will gladly hear from programs who doesn't want me to use their hosted galleries (with their thumbnail on my sites) to promote their program. I will gladly remove them in a hurry if they contact me and complain about the traffic I send from all my sites.

I highly doubt any of them will thou because they'll lose quite a lot of traffic then.

TopBucks, SilverCash, NastyDollars, TripleXcash, RealityCash are just a few of those I use. Contact me if you want to be removed from any of my Thumb TGPs and of course other Thumb TGPs in this business.

[Torn Rose]

Your right Mike, this is too funny....

Too funny you are only seeing HALF the story....

Explain the trojans/virus/whatever Norton said that was trying to install on my PC.

Do you do that as well?

The shit that setoff my Norton ***IS*** what started this, everything else is just the topping.

Funny how this point has yet to be addressed.....

[Bill]

There's only one reason to use a fucking free host for a fucking thumb TGP, and that's because you are a fucking crook who fully and consciously intends to fuck people over, right from the get go.

Bragging about your fucking thumbtgp income and the goddamn thing is on a fucking freehost autodownloading trojans? Who the fuck is the idiot and the crook in this case?

The copyright issues with thumb tgps have been discussed from one end to the other on dozens of boards. It's always been a risk, and thumbtgps have always been vulnerable to copyright holders. You should have known this before you started with your fucking autoinstalls.

A fucking freehost... So, do your traders know you been downloading trojans on their traffic?

It's shit like this that ruined the TGP biz. Used to be a nice business.

[DangerDave]

Mike, you might be surprised who does respond to this topic/thread... and you may see some changes..

I could go build a thumb TGP today and use ND content to make nice big thumbs and send all 99% traffic to ARSRI.. would ND worry... maybe they will now..

That's fine if you want to take that approach so long as you understand that every thumb TGP (I've yet to come accross a no-skim one of any significance) is using content illegally including those you trade traffic with. Even if they don't link to you from the stolen images, why would you even want to be associated with such thiefs? And why is kloot being used as the scapegoat when already there have been a few regulars on this board that have posted in this thread admitting their crimes? Surely Greenguy you didn't realize just today what a thumb TGP is and the practices they use - why have you waited till now to voice your opinions when all you have to do is browse around this board and see thieves soliticing business from and promoting their business to fellow thieves. Using your earlier examples, would you allow the promotion and discussion of spam, bestiality, CP, and warez to take place on this board?

deleuze? Since when did GG decide on the laws of copyright and fair use.. You seem to be blaming him for everything.

There are plenty of us that dont use circle-jerk crap, and run thumb TGPs. It's perfectly doable and perfectly legal..

Kloot is no scapegoat... he was just the first to publically have the law enforced against him. Torn is still 100% correct

DD

[deleuze]

Originally posted by Torn
Funny how this point has yet to be addressed.....

Funny how you consider this an issue. Can you please direct me to the spot in your terms where it says one is not allowed to place your content on a page that may set off someone's Norton antivirus? If it's not there, then this happenstance has absolutely nothing to do with content theft. Your lack of sophistication leads me to believe you've been away from the internet for the last 5 years. I'm surprised you even know what a hosted gallery is because you obviously don't know who uses them and why they use them. Nor do you know who else makes them and why they make them. Marketing them in your sig with your terms (which by the way, I still can't for the life of me find on your site) is like advertising mailer creatives and then shutting down an affiliate for bulk mailing because the creatives were only meant for e-mailing friends and family. Sure it's your content and your site and you are most likely in the right, and that's cool so as long as you understand that you are alone in this position and will be fighting this battle alone as there has been an implicit agreement between thumb sites and sponsors that predates your offering of hosted galleries and will continue to exist long after you realize very few sites are capable of sending you significant traffic with the rules you adhere to.

[Torn Rose]

LOL... yeah all alone... all by myself.....

[DangerDave]

deleuze! or is that "deluded"?!

I'm surprised you even know what a hosted gallery is because you obviously don't know who uses them and why they use them

Circle Jerk TGP'ers are only ONE group that use them. There are plenty of others that use them perfectly legally and appropriately.

Sure it's your content and your site and you are most likely in the right, and that's cool so as long as you understand that you are alone in this position

He is not alone..! in any way.. Anyone uses my content on a circle jerk thumb TGP they will be hearing from me. So that's two.. and I have no doubt more will come.

implicit agreement between thumb sites and sponsors that predates your offering of hosted galleries

?? Where would I find a copy of this agreement?????

DD

[Torn Rose]

Hey URB, instead of the 1-2 pages I asked for the new KatCash design you are working on, I may need 5 to 10 extra pages for all the rules... let me know how much this will cost.









(Just Kidding of course, I will add those myself!)

[deleuze]

Originally posted by DangerDave
?? Where would I find a copy of this agreement?????

DD

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=implicit



The funny thing is when this issue arose a few months ago, I was about the only one defending the sponsor because as you said Torn is still in the right legally. However, with the other incident, the sponsor sent out an e-mail to affiliates stating that they had just realized what was happening and did not want their hosted galleries used in such a way. I have absolutely no problem with sponsors choosing to allocate their content in such a way and in fact, it does make a certain amount of sense. I do have a problem however with a sponsor displaying complete ignorance towards the business they choose to enter and then use this ignorance to attack and ruin someone in an attempt to make themselves look more righteous and uphold a certain mode of operation that is no longer the norm. It's reactionary behaviour at it's finest and I would have just loved to see how things would have played out if Torn came to this board bitching because a site like Madthumbs was using his thumbs illegally to send him 20 signups/day.

[Stouch]

I have a purely hypothetical question.

If I were promoting Katcash on a TGP gallery using your content would I be able to submit my gallery to a thumb TGP?

Bearing in mind they will use a thumbnail as the enticement to visit the gallery, and in all likelihood be operating a skim?

Where would I stand as a submitter, ie would you term my account and report me to my host? And what action would be taken against the thumb TGP in question?

Would I be restricted to sifting through the 1000's TGP's out there in order to find those that dont skim.

Although hypothetical these are valid concerns for a potential affiliate.

[Mike]

Originally posted by Torn
Your right Mike, this is too funny....

Too funny you are only seeing HALF the story....

Explain the trojans/virus/whatever Norton said that was trying to install on my PC.

Do you do that as well?

The shit that setoff my Norton ***IS*** what started this, everything else is just the topping.

Funny how this point has yet to be addressed.....

Listen Torn, when you trade with sites, as MANY MANY MANY webmasters do, you will sometimes end up with a trade who will add dialers, chained exit or exploits to his sites. Only thing you can do is to remove the trade and move on.

But calling people piss ants, cheaters, ect is just too far out for me and we sure got a good laugh over this.

Anyone who knows me, and there are a few who does, know I fight cheaters with all I got. If I spot a cheater I don't let go before he's down and stay down.

It's your business and I respect that.
I will of course not add your hosted galleries on any of my sites when you don't want it.

But for now I give up... best of luck with your business.

[Phinneus]

This is truly an amazing topic and has made me aware of a few things

this isnt jsut tgp owners involved........also includes submitters that use sponser content.

you submit to thumb tgps?
do they skim?
guess who is a cheater?

you tgp hosting it and cant forget the host(if they dont respond with action) sponser coud go apeshit on the whole chain......do they?

no of course not....cause its making them income

as for installers popups etc I dislike them 100% and woudnt knoledgly trade with a site using them. but to each is own....he can piss of his surfer all he wants its his site.

but ill go back to lurking jsut wanted to state a point that this is an easy way of cancelling account for more then jsut the tgp owner......imagine submitting for months and months and getitng your traffic up to liek 100k a day.........and your main sponser decides he dont liek his content posted on thumb tgps.....your gonan get the shaft same way kosk or whatever his name did.

so choose your sponsers wisely.

pz,
Phinneus

[Greenguy]

Originally posted by deleuze
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=implicit

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=copyright

[Dr Bizzaro]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=drama

[rowan]

No one seems to have mentioned this yet.

http://www.out-law.com/php/page.php?...1677&area=news

Regardless of how you feel about a tiny thumbnail of your content *sometimes* going to trades, it may still be fully legal in the eyes of a US court.

[buttface_mcgee]

the theory behind skimming works to the sponsor's benefit. every trade script i have used is set up to return at least 2 to 3 clicks for every click i get in trade. both parties are set up to do this. so yes, while one click on your thumb may not go to your gallery, my TGP will receive net 2 or 3 clicks in return for that which will click on your gallery.

skimming is NOT cj. CJ sites are set up to send ALL clicks to trades, and if i were a sponsor, i would probably take issue. however, i don't know of any TGPs offhand that don't skim 5% or more to trades in return for at least twice the number of clicks sent. sponsors and TGP owners both benefit.

[crockett]

Originally posted by Greenguy
Jesus H Christ On A Popsicle Stick! I can't believe you guys are still talking about "traffic"

kloot took an image from Kat & Torn & used to to promote a site other than Kat & Torn's site - what's part of the illegalness of this do some of you not understand?

Holy crap I can't believe the stupidity in this thread....

Torn are you honestly telling me you are calling this guy a cheater because he used your "free" hosted galleries on a thumb TGP that skims traffic? So you are claiming because he skims traffic he is a cheater?

Or is it because he has a pop up or a tool bar install? Jesus you better not visit CNN.com those assholes have a few pop ups they must be cheating someone.. Holy crap what would you do if you visited Madthumbs.com or Sublimedirectory.com those assholes must cheat two.. I mean hell they skim traffic, guess you don't want any of their traffic either..

Greenguy I would think someone in your position would have the ability to understand the way a common day TGP works.. Jesus wake up it's not 1998.. you ever heard of UCJ, TM3, epower trader? Dose everyone that uses a traffic trading script or has a pop up on their site make them a cheater in your books? Hell you better not visit 99% of the adult programs out there because I can't count the numbers of programs that have exit consoles.

You guys are truly unbelievable, I have never once had a sponsor that had any issues about me sending hit via a TGP with skimmed traffic.. I hate to say it, but on modern day TGP's you guys are truly clueless..

[Rictor]

This thread is insane. If you don't understand how modern TGPs work you shouldn't offer hosted galleries in the first place.

[Torn Rose]

LOL... never fails.... you get one person crying "Torn called this guy a cheater" and everyone jumps in.

Please ANYONE.... show me ANYWHERE I said this guy was a cheater?

Only thing I called him was a "piss ant"….. wow.... a piss ant.... can I go any lower?

And yet still damn near everyone wants to point fingers and say "they all do it" well, no they ALL do not do it. And looking at my best affiliates not one of the top 10 uses this method. (which I got tired of looking and stopped at 10.)

But now more then one person cries "Torn said...." and they fill in the blank with whatever they want to fill it in with, but not with anything that I actually said.

All I said was **MY CONTENT** was being misused and I wanted it to stop. I couldn’t give a rat’s ass what silver cash and nasty dollars do, not my problem.

And as many times a day as I go to cnn.com I have not once had Norton popup on me warning me about anything so that was a real good argument.

Don’t use my stuff, that’s your choice, but if you use it you better use it right, and not “what everyone else said it was ok to do”.

Anyone who is a current affiliate of mine and no longer wishes to be, by all means let me know and I will terminate your account. No hard feelings here at all.

Everyone will do what they think is best for them to do…. Unless of course everyone else does something else then we will all do that instead.

[crockett]

Torn maybe my post was a bit harsh, but the reference to CNN.com was meant to be about pop ups. I really believe you should take a look at how 90% of the TGP's out there work. You will find that skimming traffic is a very very common thing.

Everybody can't be the Hun, I truly believe you just do not understand how TGP's work these days. It's ashame you took such drastic measures on someone that was following a common day practice for 90% of the TGP's out there..

You are 100% right you have every right in the world to dictate the terms your content is used. However being your terms are out of the norm of common day sponsors that provide free hosted galleries you should clearly mark this on your site that you do not allows TGP's whom trade traffic to use your FHG's.

IMO this is your fault, I read your site, I saw nothing about a TOS agreement for how to use your hosted galleries. After all how can you expect someone to not use the galleries in a certain way, if you do not tell them they can't. Again it seems you do not understand how most TGP's these days work.

BTW.. I noticed you live in Melbourne, FL. I just moved from their was right off of 192 out by 95.. was born and raised in that town.. Just moved up to Daytona Beach this last month, wish I would have known there was another adult webmaster in town.

Just as a side note I will let you know I personally run a few TGP sites, every single one has sponsor hosted galleries and I trade traffic on them by skimming same as koot was doing. Again This is a very common practice, I personally don't have pop ups or tool bars but a lot of guys do use these methods. It's just a fact of life in adult and even on mainstream websites. You clearly should dictate that you do not want traffic from sites using these methods in a TOS (which I didn't even see a TOS on your site). btw every single sponsor I have ever signed up for I have used one of my traffic skimming TGP's as my example site.. not a single one has ever complained or denied me as a affiliate.

You may want to take this into consideration.. if a site skims 60-70% that means 60-70% of the hits are going to the galleries and 30-40% are going to traffic trades. Sites that do this are constantly growing in size. This means if he sent you a few hundred hits last month , this month could be a thousand or so and it will keep growing.

[DonovanPhillips]

I hate to say it, but I see several veterans here that really need to educate themselves. Crockett is preaching the gospel truth, brothers.

Whether it "sucks" or not, things work much differently now. Evolve or disappear, your choice.

Anyone that has been asked to remove Torn's hosted galleries: I'd love to invite you to replace them with mine. I get it.

EDIT TO ADD: Did you guys know that many of you are being ridiculed on other boards because of your cluelessness. But the good news is that the link to this thread is bringing new traffic here.

[pornodoggy]

I have to agree with Rictor, although the word that came to my mind is pathetic.

[DangerDave]

Oh great we definitely need more ill-informed input

skimming is NOT cj. CJ sites are set up to send ALL clicks to trades

CJ is CJ is CJ... face it... you're circle jerkers..


Why does everyone think they have to explain TGP's/CJs to Greeny... Of course he understand what they are. Christ.!


Just because people CJ/TGP and use thumbs to promote other programs sites etc doesn't make it legal or right.. The argument that "it exists .. therefore it is alright" is fundamentally flawed. Sound like the argument a spammer would use.

EDIT TO ADD: Did you guys know that many of you are being ridiculed on other boards because of your cluelessness. But the good news is that the link to this thread is bringing new traffic here.

Well that's it I am quitting the biz.. I cant stand being ridiculed on GFY it's such a reputable board.

..and now it's Torn's fault... Sheesh

You can all agree with each other, but it doesnt change the situation at all.

DD

[Meadint]

Originally posted by rowan
No one seems to have mentioned this yet.

http://www.out-law.com/php/page.php?...1677&area=news

Regardless of how you feel about a tiny thumbnail of your content *sometimes* going to trades, it may still be fully legal in the eyes of a US court.

Rowan, the issue is not about posting thumbs of other peoples images. That is toltally legal ... as long as the thumbnail is linked to the actual image (gallery). The problem here is the skimming: That a certain percentage of the clicks will go to something else than the image (gallery). There has been no ruling about that by any court as far as I know.

I agree with Greenguy and Torn that it is probably technical illegal to post thumbnails on a thumb tgp that skims a certain percentage of traffic to trades. I don't really see why Torn should put in his T&C that use of his images on a skimming thumb tgp is not allowed, when it is probably technically illegal according to the copyright legislation.

It would be appreciated tho if all the sponsors who are happy to see their images on skimming thumb tgps put in their T&C that it is OK to use their FHGs on skimming tgps. Today it's a silent understanding, but as a thumb tgp webmaster I cannot use a silent understanding to anything if I come across a sponsor who doesn't like it and decide to take me to court.

[buttface_mcgee]

Originally posted by Meadint
Rowan, the issue is not about posting thumbs of other peoples images. That is toltally legal ... as long as the thumbnail is linked to the actual image (gallery). The problem here is the skimming: That a certain percentage of the clicks will go to something else than the image (gallery). There has been no ruling about that by any court as far as I know.

I agree with Greenguy and Torn that it is probably technical illegal to post thumbnails on a thumb tgp that skims a certain percentage of traffic to trades. I don't really see why Torn should put in his T&C that use of his images on a skimming thumb tgp is not allowed, when it is probably technically illegal according to the copyright legislation.

It would be appreciated tho if all the sponsors who are happy to see their images on skimming thumb tgps put in their T&C that it is OK to use their FHGs on skimming tgps. Today it's a silent understanding, but as a thumb tgp webmaster I cannot use a silent understanding to anything if I come across a sponsor who doesn't like it and decide to take me to court.

why would a sponsor not want the TGP on which they are listed to grow their traffic and clicks as much as possible? yes they might give away 5 out of a hundred clicks. but that 5 will return 10 or maybe 20. those 10/20 will click more than once. as someone from another board said, it's the difference between 100% of 10,000 clicks or 70% of 100,000 clicks. which would you rather have? if you're a sponsor, which board would you rather be listed on?