I fucking hate this board & I hate this business - friends? HA!

[Greenguy]

Holy shit - the last few days have been a fucking nightmare!

Let's start with the program that gave me a verbal commitment to advertising on here when I saw them in Miami. Jim & I said that was great, we'd get them the info & whatnot & they asked if they could do a little pre-ad promotion on the board, so we allow them to post threads about the program here in the main forum, assuming that they'd be starting to advertise on Sept 1st (remember, it was in Miami in Aug, so that was the next ad cycle)

Sept 1st - nothing. More posts that we let slide. Oct 1st - nothing. More posts that we let slide. So Nov is approaching & we really want to get the ball rolling. So we call our contact who tells us to call their boss & guess what? The boss has no fucking clue who we are & no idea what we're talking about. Just fucking great.

So in the main time, the person that said they were going to take out ads gets into a few little pissing matches with moderators, which happens from time to time, but instead of asking Jim or me to take care of it, the take it to the boards. One mod is no longer around, partly because of this. The other mod doesn't post as much, again, partly because of this.

Now they're not taking any ads, because the rates we quoted them for the package that they wanted were too high. Mind you, they have been "advertising" their program on the board for months & that they got the same package price that everyone on the board is offered.

Money clouded my eyes & I probably lost a lot of trust in 2 people that I considered close friends. <to self> Way to go, asshole!

***

We also have an advertiser that pulled their ads July 1st that thinks they deserve to get the same treatment now as they did back then. I didn't want any of this to come out in public, and even got on ICQ with the owner so that it wouldn't. But one of their employees felt the need to tell Jim & me how to run our fucking board. This board is not a fucking hobby! I'm not gonna lie - I can live without the money this board makes, but Jim would be on hard times if this board wasn't around. I do truly wish that this board was ad free - no banners, no referral links, no sig files, etc - but it's not. A board like that does not exist. Jim & I have to do our best to take care of our paying advertisers & for an old advertiser - and someone that I consider a friend - to call me out on my own fucking board is horse shit!

You know what? A "friend" wouldn't assume that they could post in a paid ad spot. A "friend" wouldn't let his employees shit on me on my board. So much for that "friendship" I guess.

The term "professional courtesy" was also thrown around a lot during my ICQ conversation. I don't see a link to here on there site, but I do see links to 4 or 5 other boards/resources.

I'm not even going to touch on the shit that I let them know about that they fucked up behind the scenes - that I did not go to the board with as a "professional courtesy"

***

Then I get an ICQ from another friend that wants me to break my submit rules on LOR so they can have their workers submit multiple sites to me in the same 24 hour period - 100 of them! And it's not like they are personal sites, they're for the program this person works for. Sure, I let all my friends spam up my link list with sites for the program they are working for with no revenue to me.

I tell them that if they're making free sites, why not make Hosted Free Sites for all affiliates - this way, they avoid the submitting process & the sites are eventually all listed (I'd be fucking nuts to throw an extra 100 links onto my site in one day) Hell - they already have Hosted Galleries - you'd think this would be the next logical step, right? The reply to this (from my friend's boss) was that the only credit I'd get would be the recip link, but that they can give me content to make my own sites to promote their program.

***

And I haven't even touched on the amount of people that post, but can not read. Go to the thread that I started asking for webmaster referral programs & count the number posts (there are 9 as of this post) - I can't believe this many people are so greedy to make a few bucks off referring me that they can't take 5 fucking minutes to read my 1st post!

I have to make rules for these type of threads because if I didn't, there'd be people signing up to the board just to spam their program - that's not what I'm looking for! I want to help those that help me & help this board. That's why I have all these silly fucking rules in the thread & why I had to put in big bold letters how many posts you needed to have before you could promote yourself.

***

...and to top it off, in the middle of typing up this little fucking novel, I get a call from someone we banned from the board because they were spamming a lot. He's confused as to why he can't log into the board - and he wants advertising rates!


***

I'm going fucking nuts & I'm taking some time off - fuck this board - fuck the people I posted about above - and most importantly fuck me for thinking I could put out a board that people can do business on without being spammed to fucking hell with idiotic ignorant posters.

Be With You

[buttster]

Hang in there GG, tomorrow will be a better day!!

[koolkat]

GG... it's Friday... enjoy the weekend. Have a beer on me. It will all be better Monday morning (well probably not, because there will be a new bunch of people causing problems), but anyways... it's never going to end, as long as you are in business, so don't sweat it too bad. I've gotten used to people complaining and telling me how I need to run things. On my site Boobs and Balls, it is totally free, has thousands of members and thousands of free amateur photos. Do you thing that satisfies people? Nope... some want to complain because there isn't enough to their satisfaction, or they don't like this, or don't like that. I just ignore the crap... if they go away, who cares, because they aren't paying anyways! Same here... just delete, or close the thread and pay them no more attention. When they see it bothers you, then they win... don't let that happen!

[Raven]

GG...can I repost your sentiments on my board?

What is it with these people?

They think these boards run by themselves and they cost nothing.

Sig tags are so out of whack, no wonder the people who pay to play, don't want to pay anymore. Their return on investment is lost in the shuffle.....and the things posters try to get away with?

At one point, my sig tag reflected that I was a sig nazi with a toxic demeanor....people have left my board because I am so strict on spamming....but, hey, it's a fucking business...nowhere else on the planet does anyone do as much for free as this industry does.

Then, I saw your new rules and I was in tears...rejoicing that Hallelujah ..someone else understood.......

[JenC]

[Linkster]

Greenie - I know that this has been a bad week for all of us - and my little problems that became a pain in your butt didnt help

However - remember back when you had the page at another board - and the reason that you went to this - (no not the money part cause I understand what you guys have to put up with for that part) but the sentiment of all of the LL owners and all of the people that got a great start in this biz because of you - your willingness to listen, teach, and help without ever worrying about a thanks or fuck you. And still do it to this day - your posts to a guy that needs help getting his little free site listed, or even when someone is trying to break into this - are more helpful than you ever get credit for - except in the eyes of the people that receive that help.
Those people are the people that are still here and still try to help out others just like you do, and thank goodness there is a board like this that gets all of that crap out of the way so that the newbie can really learn, and friends can really talk as well as do business ina spam free environment

THANK YOU my friend

[amadman]

Just step back for awhile and take a break gg.

When you get back you can try to fix what you decide needs fixing and fuck the rest.

This is still the best board around. And it would really be a shame if it fell apart.

[CelticTiger]

Originally posted by Greenguy
The reply to this (from my friend's boss) was that the only credit I'd get would be the recip link, but that they can give me content to make my own sites to promote their program.

For fuck sake - a recip link???! I nearly choked when I read that one.

Gee that was very kind of them. Can bills be paid with recip links?

A recip link???? |goodnight

[D-man]

Greeny - I know how ya feel - I know it's not a help but I have been dealing with the same shit myself -

Time for a drink and a BJ - I'll send Jay over for the BJ if you want and I'll have a drink! - Cheers

Keep you head up!

DON"T LET THE MAN GET YOU DOWN!

[ponygirl]

From a newbie point of view....
please excuse me if I'm getting senti-fuckin-mental, but GG -you and the people who post here are really an inspiration to those of us who are newbies looking for a place to go. I came to this board because it seems to be one of the few greatly respected ones in the biz...most of the people here are friendly, knowledgeable and willing to share their expertise with all of us. I think every business has its share of people who want to make a buck by getting around the rules, and this is no different, except that when you are at the top, yours are the rules everyone tries to break.
Boards like this (& the people who are here to help and learn) are what is going to make this industry better...slowly but surely weeding out others that are not serious or that are looking to cheat. We need people like you who speak out with rules & boards so that the biz doesn't just turn into a raging free-for-all, no good for anyone, including the surfers.
I know I can come here and get honest answers & information, that you are tough (here & on LOR) but fair, & if I get a site listed on LOR then I know I did ok and can feel good about it.

I'm sure you don't get told this often enough...GG you really are a great mentor to a lot of us & it would be a real shame to lose you or this board.

thanks for letting me get my 2cents in.

Ponygirl

[Chop Smith]

Originally posted by Linkster
THANK YOU my friend

Linkster, you sho spoke the truth here. I don't know how he has the time to do all that he does, but he has always been there for a 'nobody' in the biz. I bet after a short rest that he will be back doing the same.

[Torn Rose]

Greenguy.... I Love You.

Jim.... I Love You.

[kristian]

Well, I fucking love this board, and even though I've yet to meet you and Jim, I fucking love you guys too.

Greenie, this thread is painful to read. I hate to think that someone as good as you would be feeling this way. The world truly is upside down this week.

The truth is, it doesn't matter if you take a break. The dickheads will be here when you return. The only thing to do is understand that they are dickheads. I meet them everyday. They don't think - and hence conduct business - like the rest of us. These are stupid people.

They're also stupid people without morals, without an ounce of goodness. One thing I've always known about you Greenie is that you're a good person. I don't want to sound like some crazy bible-basher, but it's true. You just seem really good.

Keep in mind, Greenie, that aside from running a business you're also making a difference. You help people. You look after people you don't even know. I respect that. You've never met me and yet, for about 2 years now, you've done all you can. What I'm trying to say is there's more to what you do than business, you make a difference in people's lives dude.

Don't let these people get you down. A lot of people love and respect you.

[Toni KatVixen]

It sounds like you really need a hug for all the crap you are putting up with. Since I'm not there to give you that, here is a boobie flash for you.
Fire starter

[TheHand]

Bummer, I HATE that kind of shit.

[Kezza]

Marker and I just wanted to add out big THANK YOU here... we are one of the LL owners that you helped so much on that other board, that Linkster just mentioned... if we hadnt found you there we wouldnt be here today!



Sorry to here about all your frustrations... sounds like time off will be a good thing.

[selena]

They've all said it better than I could, GG.

Hope it is better for you soon.

[Sean416]

More Money, More Problems.

Although I am kind of dissapointed that you'd make a thread like this. You're our fearless leader! I know sometimes you feel like you're going to blow, so you just through it all out there. But the bottom line is this is a business and IMO you should keep this stuff behind closed doors. But truth be told, I am glad you shared this info with us, it makes us all appreciate what you're doing that much more.

I hope it nevers get to be too much and you continue to do what you do.

[kingdough]

i'll use my first post on your board
to say fuck me too :-)

[sando]

i can't believe what i just read! i have no clue of the ppl involved in this crazy story but... it's totally insane ppl involve in this business (affiliate program) can even think about having all for them without paying the price.
lots of guys here run paysites and all know the cost of a good advertising campain and the gain you gonna have with that.
when you see paid spots on tgps, banners on boards, etc. you know it is a serious business and am shocked ppl can think they are above the 'rules' and above the courtesy that most of guys in this industry demonstrate everyday.
If some assholes can ruin a board like this one it's a big loss for the entire community and we really can't accept that.
this board is a reference for lots of webmasters.
i can't told you what to do. you're pissed and anybody at your place must be pissed as weel.
but let's try to see the good things, we are all with you !
you can use the support of everybody in this board.
so keep on rocking cos there are good guys here.
and fuck the :-)

[MrHackula]

Hello GreenGuy,

I wish I had no idea what you were talking about. I really, really do. I can't say that. We have been going against the flow for 7+ years now.

Your board goes against the flow... That is a good thing. If you have forgotten what the flow looks like, there is always GFY for a quick reminder.

This isn't GFY. The reason it isn't is because you make an effort to improve the current state of affairs. Evolution is bullshit. If you leave a board alone, it becomes GFY. It rots. Leave an apple on the table it doesn't evolve into a lamp, it rots. Same same.

There is only so much you can do. I am finally learning that.

I dissappear from the boards frequently for a reason: too many sites. I finally got the damn clue that I am neither immortal nor can I change the world single handed.

I am changing things and learning to program a bit. One day I realized that automation is the key to my sanity, and it is coming along day at a time.

I am not going to tell you how much I love you, what a good person you are or how much you have done for everyone else. You know these things, and to hear them again will not fix the assholes of the world.

You ever notice how much time people in this business spend telling you how to run your business? Usually people who haven't made 1% of your income? I don't have the TIME to tell anyone else what THEY should do, where do they find the time?

The minute these assholes sense a friendly soft-spot they try to take and abuse their way into it until you are left bloody and near death... All from trying to help.

What is the answer? Stop helping? No. Stop tolerating shit. Yes.
Nothing GOOD comes easy... NOTHING.

You want to do something better than the rest in this business and you will always be astonished at the number of people that will come out of nowhere to discourage you. Their sole purpose in life seems to be smashing the life out of any idea that actually improves the business. Nobody knows why. They would benefit as well, and they know it. Still, they will abuse your trust until you just stop trusting.

Man, this is turning into a rant. Suffice it to say I know the feeling, and feel your pain.

If you would like, and know a good programmer, I have a suggestion or two for easing your board related stress level. If you think I am just another knucklehead with a half assed bullshit, unworkable idea, see the thread about de-cheating HQHost. Those were the simple ones. ;-)

Opti is an absolute genius, if you don't know anyone else. (SO sayeth the elephant)

How I deal with it: Don't let them win. Get mad, stay mad, give them a bigger headache than they gave you. Learn their tricks and beat them using their own tactics. Become a total and complete tyrant, but only to those people. Learn to see them coming. Find ways to make them miserable before they even know who you are. Make it more work than it is worth to get into a position to trouble you. Most of all:

Illegitimi Non Carborundum.

At your service,

Mr. H.

When we atarted selling content on the Internet my first impression was, "What a bunch of idiots"

3 years down the line my impression is, "The idiots just stand out more than the intelligent ones"

There are lots of good people in this business who we deal with all the time and our business is based on, but every so often an idiot pops up.

Like the guy who thinks we should offer a 24 hour service so he can get the $20 worth of content he ordered so late he needs it now, or the guy who can't check the thumbnails on a set and sees it's not what he thought it was.

But as a new business with lots of newbie business men it's to be expected.

But one thing about advertising, we looked at it long and hard and decided for the return it simply was not cost effective. I feel a lot of boards are simply too expensive to advertis on.

Seems too many affiliate programs have priced it out of for reach for humble content providers.

[kingdough]

Originally posted by Paul Markham2
But one thing about advertising, we looked at it long and hard and decided for the return it simply was not cost effective. I feel a lot of boards are simply too expensive to advertis on.

Seems too many affiliate programs have priced it out of for reach for humble content providers.

sidenote - hey paul you have great content!

yea ever thought about teaming up with an affiliate program and sharing marketing costs? just an idea to solve that little market hiccup..

Originally posted by kingdough
sidenote - hey paul you have great content!

yea ever thought about teaming up with an affiliate program and sharing marketing costs? just an idea to solve that little market hiccup..

Something I want to do is put an exchange banner on our sites. It would be aimed at programs for paysite we sell content to and they would have a similar return button on their site. Both would be coded andboth would be attached to a payour system.

Done it with a couple, but need to get it expanded.

We did have an affiliate program before. But had some clients sign up, send one person who started to buy and they stopped buying. Seems it was not worth it.

[kingdough]

Originally posted by Paul Markham2
Something I want to do is put an exchange banner on our sites. It would be aimed at programs for paysite we sell content to and they would have a similar return button on their site. Both would be coded andboth would be attached to a payour system.

yea a problem you might run into is webmasters not wanting to share their content supplier.

if you can overule that objection you'll have a good strategy..