Freaking idiots - can I vent here?

[Kath]

Had a conversation yesterday with a marketing rep for a major affiliate program and I was SHOCKED at how much this guy did NOT know... no knowledge of traffic, 'Net sales (he has a degree in sales & marketing though, he was quick to point out), and ZERO experience... yet this guy works with webmaster via customer service to help them (get this...) increase their sales and conversion ratios. WTF?!?!?

What pisses me off though is that it's guys like this that ruin it for the truly knowledgeable and valuable sales reps, marketing gurus and consultants in this industry. Speaking as someone who has dabbled in that end of the biz, it's outrageous that these in-your-face marketing guys are ruining it for those who have been doing quality work behind-the-scenes for years...

We all know who some of these people are - we've all met them, and shook our heads thinking "how did he/she get this job?"

I hate to vent but I'm at the "all I can stands and I can't stands no more" fork in the road....

Thanks.

[Raven]

And, to continue Kath's rant....I can no longer use the word 'consultant' as it's become a dirty word these days, with all of the misrepresentations and lack of education and unwillingness to pay for the ones who DO know how to do it right.

Text is important...essential; yet, no one is willing to pay for it.

Financial planning is essential for every business model; yet, no one is willing to pay for the ones who have the ability to plan for the long term.

Marketing is essential; yet, no one has a budget and wonders why they can't get their name branded or can't get affiliates to join their one site program.

When advice IS given, free or otherwise, I'm constantly met with resistance...and the client totally ignoring what I consider to be common sense.

One guy wanted 10 thousand descriptions written, all marketable text.....four words each. I remember posting I would do them for one dollar a piece...and, let me tell you it is not easy to come up with four marketable words when ten are needed...and the guy told me I was crazy.

[Torn Rose]

That’s what happens when people hire based on a piece of paper and not actual ability. Pretty amazing when your company is based on traffic you hire someone who thinks that has to do with cars.|badidea|

[JenC]

I couldn't agree with you more Kath. I had a similar experience with a sponsor. They had one of these sites that was "multi niche" like "teen lesbians" which could go into either teens or lesbians. (but it wasn't teen lesbians, I'm just giving an example)

So I was asking which way should I approach it for TGP, as a teens site or as a lesbians site. (this is a bad example because I know everyone's gonna say "teens site!" but you know what I mean)

Anyway the outcome, which is the whole point of the story, is that the guy said to me "I have no idea. I've never even seen a TGP." I was frustrated to no end.

Marketing good and services is one thing, but I think marketing adult is an entirely different ballgame. You have to be really perverted and think like the surfer. I don't think it's something that a person with a degree can just walk into.

[Kath]

Originally posted by JenC
I don't think it's something that a person with a degree can just walk into.

EXACTLY!

I am SO thankful that my first years were spend "in the trenches" building free sites, working with traffic, learning the ropes from the ground up. I see so many writers, webmaster resource folks, etc. that just have ZERO experience in this arena, yet write about it as if they'd lived it.

True - I'm no Internet millionaire, traffic guru or SEO whiz - but at least I know the difference between TGP and AVS. lol

I had one such marketing expert ask me for an anagram list a few years back because he couldn't make heads or tails of all these "initials for things" that webmasters use. "What's a LL?!?" he asked me at one point, "A Lesbian List? Why do we care if people work with Lesbian Lists - we don't even have a lesbian site?" *rolls eyes*

|goodnight

[Sean416]

I say out them. name some names. |afro|

[MrMaryLou]

Sounds like a case of sheep skins to me Oh wait they went to school for 4 years so that means they know it all LOL

[Cleo]

I love it when I'm at the shows and a rep in one of the booths asks me what I do and I saw run a link list and then they ask me what that is.

[murray]

Originally posted by Cleo
I saw run a link list and then they ask me what that is.

You have a link list?

Nah seriously some ppl are just plain mornons and dont belong in the industry. One thing im kinda proud of at OutbackCash is that the people you talk to have been doing this for many years and actually know what a LL is.....A Lunch Lady

[maxdaforce]

so how do these guys get a job like that?
its not often you see them advertised on webmaster boards and you'd think they would be the ideal place?

[Phoenix]

say the names

[docholly]

Originally posted by JenC
I don't think it's something that a person with a degree can just walk into.

People throw that word around frequently. "Degree" but quite frankly, like many things in life, it's what you put into it that counts. Obviously these cases were there only for a quick fix of money, without learning exactly what they were marketing.

The sad part is, as a de-greed consultant, I find it more difficult to sell my expertise than someone else product. I would rather contract myself, than sell my services.

[Kath]

Originally posted by maxdaforce
so how do these guys get a job like that?
its not often you see them advertised on webmaster boards and you'd think they would be the ideal place?

No... I'm not going to name any names....

That being said - a lot of these people get hired via the "homie hook-up" that works behind the scenes of this industry - or any other for that matter. It happens everywhere. The "in" crowd, the "popular kids" - all that kind of stuff.

I'm not claiming that all the "popular" ones are clueless marketers, but some that I have talked to - and many that I have heard about from other webmasters - fall into this group.

Again I have to say that it is a sad thing for the true marketers/consultants of this industry that have done some amazing behind-the-scenes work @ programs, services and companies throughout the 'Net. It's unfortunate that they are sometimes lumped in with these clueless wonders - it's like the old saying about some ruining it for all... I hate that.

[Useless]

And I get emails from these guys all of the time. Christ! I know I'm not sending them traffic. I don't need to hit them up on ICQ so they can inform me how to send them some. I'm unproductive as it is. Talking to them will just make me even more undproductive, if that is at all possible.

LL - Legendary Lama

[JenC]

I'll name names....mine was a sponsor who's name is banned here. Most of you know who that is. However I still use them. They convert well for me.

[bdld]

indeed, i've come across a few as well. no experience in this biz at all.









Read the rules

[Sheri Santiago]

I feel your pain Kath, I run into reps like this at all the shows, it amazes me how some of these kids get jobs in marketing. College won't teach you how to build a TGP or what skim ratios are.

[Tev]

Couldn't agree more Kath.

Standard line from a huge chunk of reps to make more money.

"Send me your traffic"

I think a lot of people are hired locally vs from out of the community.

Conversley I do know some reps that started out clueless and have taken the time to learn this biz and can give more advice than just "send me your traffic".

But for the most part.......

[CaptainJSparrow]

You know though:

It's kind of a thankless job that those college kids have (begging for things that they don't even understand), and most of them fail and move on to (bother folks in) other pastures after a few months to a year.

And...the people that can do the job, the ones with experience, are usually the ones that own their own sites/companies and have no desire to take a cut in pay, and get a boss, just to go work for a big company/player on the 'net. The big companies aren't willing to hire folks with experience because it would entail huge salaries/benefits packages and guarantees, at the least, to get them to come work there.

[Far-L]

Kath... I totally respect your right to vent and agree with what you are saying but I do have sort of a split perspective on this subject...

There are those industry "vets" that don't really do much of anything but say "you need to have affiliate program"... "I can get you tons of webmasters" ... "everyone knows me" and one comes to find out that they actually don't know crap and that they are not respected by anyone of substance and in short that they will be well on their way to bluffing their way into another set of newbies soon enough.

Then, I must say that I have witnessed someone that came in knowing absolutely zip and a few months later has a complete insider's grasp. Ynot Bob is an excellent example to name a name of someone that has impressed me in that way. When he took over that company it was a train wreck on the verge of collapse in the hands of veterans/insiders and he came in, learned from scratch, and turned it around.

So, while it is annoying anytime someone talks about something and puts on airs and hasn't a clue, I say keep an eye out and take a deep breath, and wait to see what they make of themselves. It might not be worth two cents but you can put it in your pipe and smoke it....

[Linkster]

Far-L (hiya by the way) - I agree to some extent - there are examples on both ends of the spectrum like you gave - the problem I see is that there are a good 30 "major" aff programs out there that have reps that don't understand the basics of traffic manipulation, SE positioning, terms used in the industry etc. There are "very few" that at least will say - "I dont know but I'll find out". It would seem that the program owners accept this as "normal" without taking into consideration that their bottom line is probably suffering a 10-20% reduction because of it - maybe that 10-20% isnt worth the cost of a rep that has some knowledge, however I can do the math and can see that to raise the profit that much by the addition of someone knowledgeble and shit-canning the reps that are just taking up breathing air would be a good boost to a programs productivity and reputation among the WMs out there that do make part of that bottom line for the company.

The only analogy I can think of right now is that most companies have "greeters" who have been programmed to say "welcome to Walmart - come back every day" and it is a waste of their money.