A sad day for adult

[emmanuelle]

I don't want to link to another board with the details, but here is the headline:

Extreme Associates Loses Obscenity Appeal, Court Ducks Privacy Issue in Reversing Lancaster


PENNSYLVANIA - The United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit reversed on Thursday an earlier decision by federal judge Gary Lancaster to throw out the obscenity indictment against adult entertainment company Extreme Associates.


|confused|

[RawAlex]

It looks like the appeals courts sided with the government and have reinstated the obscenity charges against Extreme Associates.

http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-.../s_402201.html

For those of you who were posting about your first amendment rights to sell and distribute whatever consenting adults do might want to take a moment and consider the implications.

There is the potential that adults can consent to acts that would be legal between them but obscene to show to others.

I don't wish this on anyone, but I have little pity for those who bring it upon themselves.

Alex

[RawAlex]

A little side note: If you pay very close attention to this story, the whole prosecution hinges on a purchase made by a US Postal Inspector and delivered by the US mail to him. As I mentioned earlier this month, I stopped handing video editing and production for US companies as the customs now requires a long declaration as to the content of video tapes and a statement that the materials are "not obscene". Sadly, there is no easy measuring stick to determine obscenity for materials that travel by courrier or mail, as there is no way to tell where or when they will be inspected and which community standard will be applied.

This case may have way less to do with the internet, and may have way more to do with the old amateur action BBS case (circa 1994). Please consult google for more information for those of you who might not have been around when that one happened:

http://www.google.com/search?q=amate...en-US:official

Alex

[SirMoby]

Time to start learning Canadian, "Eh".

[emmanuelle]

Originally Posted by SirMoby

Time to start learning Canadian, "Eh".

Even still, we're tied somewhat to the US no matter what we do. The only alternative is to switch to EU hosting and billing (as well as business registration etc). Since one cannot have Visa USA as well as Visa EU, those Visa USA rebills would be sacrificed.

[Hammer]

It's not a bad day for adult unless you believe the spin the writer put on it. The only thing that happend was that the appeals court found that the judge that threw the charges out had no grounds to do so, so now it goes to court like it should have in the first place. I'll be very surprised if Extreme loses on obscenity grounds in the end after the court decides the case. It is possible that he'll lose on the charge involving using the U.S. Postal Service to send obscene material to a conservative community in Pennsulvania.

Frankly, I'm glad to see this go to court because it can at least lead to some kind of tangible way to define 'obscene' so we don't all have to run around in the dark.

[GonZo]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

A little side note: If you pay very close attention to this story, the whole prosecution hinges on a purchase made by a US Postal Inspector and delivered by the US mail to him. As I mentioned earlier this month, I stopped handing video editing and production for US companies as the customs now requires a long declaration as to the content of video tapes and a statement that the materials are "not obscene". Sadly, there is no easy measuring stick to determine obscenity for materials that travel by courrier or mail, as there is no way to tell where or when they will be inspected and which community standard will be applied.

This case may have way less to do with the internet, and may have way more to do with the old amateur action BBS case (circa 1994). Please consult google for more information for those of you who might not have been around when that one happened:

http://www.google.com/search?q=amate...en-US:official

Alex

I think those guys are still in jail too. Another BBS that never crossed over to the web.... of course its hard to do so if your ass is in jail.

[RawAlex]

Gonzo, you are very correct. The "bad old days" of the BBS world was fraught with these sorts of dangers. The desire to ship images by floppy disk rather than super slow download speeds was high, and the marketability of the product was high as well.

Sadly, most people at that time (and I suspect, still to this day) are not aware of the implications of mailing their adult product to their customers. The question of obscenity here may have little to do with the world wide web, and everything to do with the same theories and principals that were in play in 1994.

Alex

[Ramster]

I buy US based businesses with income and/or traffic fleeing the country cheap.

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by GonZo

I think those guys are still in jail too. Another BBS that never crossed over to the web.... of course its hard to do so if your ass is in jail.

First off - I doubt that they are still in jail - they really didnt end up with that much time. I know his wife got 2 yrs and 2 months and I seem to remember he had a shortened term as well??
Second - understand that the videos that they were selling would be considered obscene in most communitites as they were rape and beast movies.
Third - they were set up by the postal inspector as they had a disclaimer on their site that specifically was written to protect them from that at the time
A good recollection of what really happened is here - http://www.totse.com/en/law/high_pro...es/aabust.html
Last - there are a lot of cases that were happening at the same time that did not ever go to court as they were thrown out - the closest we came to having anything happen is because a bunch of us had pics of a pornstar up that happened to have lied about her age (Traci Lords) and as soon as we found out we all took them down.

[Allfetish]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

This case may have way less to do with the internet, and may have way more to do with the old amateur action BBS case (circa 1994). Please consult google for more information for those of you who might not have been around when that one happened:

http://www.google.com/search?q=amate...en-US:official

Alex

That was an interesting case. A little before my time (I was 16 then ) yes.

I worry that'll just use such a thing to establish a precident and an expectation that the internet should be subject to the same laws due to crossing state lines. At leas within the US. I guess I hae little faith.

And, yes, I agree. It is a sad day.

[GonZo]

Originally Posted by Linkster

First off - I doubt that they are still in jail - they really didnt end up with that much time. I know his wife got 2 yrs and 2 months and I seem to remember he had a shortened term as well??
Second - understand that the videos that they were selling would be considered obscene in most communitites as they were rape and beast movies.
Third - they were set up by the postal inspector as they had a disclaimer on their site that specifically was written to protect them from that at the time
A good recollection of what really happened is here - http://www.totse.com/en/law/high_pro...es/aabust.html
Last - there are a lot of cases that were happening at the same time that did not ever go to court as they were thrown out - the closest we came to having anything happen is because a bunch of us had pics of a pornstar up that happened to have lied about her age (Traci Lords) and as soon as we found out we all took them down.

Now you have me wondering where I read they had his ass in jail for so long. Ill go digging....Jeff Hunter isnt exactly who would have an accurate account.

Actually I bet Far L would rememeber Am Action was actually competition for HomeGrown BBS... but Far L had a magazine.

I do remember that the tapes were pretty damn illegal even by our standards now. The EFF was a pretty hot supporter of them becaause of the Postal Inspector issue... I remember later they dropped their support.

Makes you wonder why the EFF [who still is around] wasnt leading the charge on this .xxx and Acadia fight from the begining.

I think Ill call and check. I bought a lifetime membership.

[Linkster]

Then you probably remember that Windy City was even more "fringe" although they did well enough for themselves - and after they released the CDs of all of their content for other BBS's to use they kinda dissappeared as well

[GonZo]

Originally Posted by Linkster

Then you probably remember that Windy City was even more "fringe" although they did well enough for themselves - and after they released the CDs of all of their content for other BBS's to use they kinda dissappeared as well

Windy City, The General.... McHenry's, Rusty And Edies.....
I remember a OneBBSCon when Rusty and Edie can out to the jaccuzzi totally raw.

I think thats where Far L got his tips on raw doggin' in the hot tub.

[Linkster]

That wouldnt be a sight Id wanna see
I remember running into them at a smaller get together in Ohio - cant even remember except that it was a holiday inn in some small town.

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

I don't wish this on anyone, but I have little pity for those who bring it upon themselves.

True. I was introduced to Rob Black this summer by KB (like it was supposed to be cool or something). I refused to shake his hand. None the less, I still wish him luck in court. A lot is riding on it.

[ronnie]

I remember when I first got online, BBS was the thing, Windy City was the big name, and thought that stuff was hot back then.

ronnie

[Verbal]

Originally Posted by GonZo

Windy City, The General.... McHenry's, Rusty And Edies.....
I remember a OneBBSCon when Rusty and Edie can out to the jaccuzzi totally raw.

I think thats where Far L got his tips on raw doggin' in the hot tub.

Ahh McHenry BBS.. one of my first employers.

[ronnie]

Originally Posted by Verbal

Ahh McHenry BBS.. one of my first employers.

Probably remember the "Onion" or something like that, though not really adult. We use to play games online. There were a couple small ones but for the life of me I cant remember the names.

ronnie

[Linkster]

I still have a bunch of CDs full of mchenry's stuff mixed in with rustys and windy city - for the life of me I cant remember the reseller out of Florida that used to put them together and sell them to us for $10 to put in our 6-CD changers