DUPLICATION - A Business Lesson Learned!

[MarkTiarra]

Anyone who knows me, knows I just like to share good advice I get or have sometimes and this falls in that category.

In the last couple weeks I have been helping quite a few people launch new programs and consulting to help them grow what they have and the one thing that comes up time and time again is what I like to call "Enterpeneur Syndrome." This is where a business wner is so accustomed to doing all the work that he/she has trouble letting go of any of it and duplicating their efforts through the use of outside help.

The usual reasons are:

1) Fear of it not being done to their standards.
2) Logic of "why pay someone else to do what I can do anyway?"

My response to those concerns:

1) Usually no one else will work to your level but there is only one of you and you only have so many hours to get things done. If other people do things say eith 60% of your effectiveness, it only takes two people to beat your productivity (by 20%). Of course you will have to go through finding good people and dealing with ones that don't do well but it's just like sales where you get through the crap to find the gems. It's worth the effort.

2) Do you want 100% of $10,000 per month or 50% of $100,000 per month. It's as simple as that.

Without duplicating your efforts through other people working for you, you have a much lower ceiling of income. The goal is not to own a job but to own a business. You want it to live and breath even if you go on vacation.

None of this is rocket science but I see so many of my peers stuggling to grow their businesses and being totally stressed out with how much they have to do. You don't have to work hard - you have to work smart! Add hard work to working smart and you get great results but make sure you don't give up your quality of life either. And make it your goal to grow a business and not a job... make it your motivating question when you make decisions (am I makeing more work or am I making business growth happen?) and you'll find yourself in a much better place in not too long.

Or I could be a complete idiot and you should just flame the shit out of this thread. =]

[Greenguy]

You do also have to have money to pay these extra people you speak of & I'd bet that most of the posters here on this particular board are 1-2 person operations.

Take me for example: with the Link O'Rama, MrMaryLou is the ONLY person I'd trust with the work that he does for me (and I'm not talking about reviewers) but there are still times when I decide it'd be easier for me to just do something myself because I am anal to the point of insanity (no joke)

Just Part 1 alone - not too many people here will pay 2 people to do something that they can do themselves, regardless of if they have time or not.

[Useless]

I'm not flaming you here, MT, but if you admit that others won't do the work as well as I can do myself, then "Duplication" isn't an inappropriate title. Maybe "Pay a Filipino to Fuck Up Your Web Pages" would be more appropriate.

Obviously, there are things I simply cannot do myself. When I wanted a paysite tour designed and realizing that I'm an uskilled loser, I hit up my mate Urb - 'cause there's no fucking way I can do that (and I knew Urb wouldn't require me to fix spelling and grammar errors like those sweatshop designers). But if I could create a quality product like that - I'd find the time to do it myself. Call me budget-conscious. Call me cheap.

When it comes to things I can do myself, I'd have to be really busy in order to justify paying someone else to do it and dealing with the aggravation that goes along with dealing with other humans.

[RawAlex]

I also think that nature of many people here is not only to duplicate, but to improve on something and attempt to make the next one better. Coming up with a decent gallery and then duplicating it 1000 times is fairly mechanical, and I suspect the laws of diminishing returns will come into play pretty quickly on this concept.

While it is to your advantage (always) to sub out work when you can afford it and when the work can be done sucessfully (and at a profit to you) by a third party, for the most part people here have more time than loose money, and more desire to do thing themselves and develop ideas on the go rather than sitting back and supervising others.

Perhaps as a result many people where will remain small to medium players, but not everyone is destined for greatness and a 20 person staff in the office.

Alex

[karomesis]

I have strengths, and I have weaknessess. My modus operandi is to emphasise my strengths by focusing on what I do best, while using other people/rhesus monkeys to make my weaknessess lack the sting they posess.

I am not a CSS/XHTML codemaster, I may have the potential to be one someday with alot of hard work and time, but right now I want to focus on building a business and being as creative as possible, so I outsource those tasks to the sacred codemasters

Obviously, my ability to outsource is limited by my financial condition but I think there are some people who are inherently better than others at certain things, some people code from birth it seems, while others struggle with even the basics. And some people can play sports well, while others make my grandmother look like emmit smith.

That's just the way it is.

[Mr. Blue]

As I see it one of the problems is finding people that will put out decent work. Let's take designers for example, there's tons of them, but are they necessarily good at what they do? Are they just photoshop guys/gals that have never actually worked as a submitter themselves. Do they know what sells? If they did, why would they have to work for someone else?

If you find a good designer, are they reliable? Everyday you see someone on some forum bitching and complaining about paying someone to do work and them not delivering or not delivering on time.

Some people are lucky, the first time they hire someone they manage to catch that lightning in a bottle that will benefit them immensely, but in the adult biz that's rare.

As I grow, yeah I would like to hire someone else, but right now would I want to spend 1 hour building something for myself or 2 hours looking over the work of someone I hired.

[Halfdeck]

I have plenty of chores I'd hire people for, but the biggest obstacle for me is money. If a LL owner is pulling in 80k a month, he can afford to pay 2k a month / reviewer, but that's not where I stand. What I'm looking for is someone who measures up to my standards, and I won't find that offering 15 bucks an hour (or will I?)

[[BV]]

Delegation is the key to success, but it's too bad most entrepreneurs (like myself) have a problem with delegating certain tasks out.

I'm so anal about shit I even check to make sure my lug nuts are tight after I have my tires rotated.

However, I don't have any problems if I know nothing about what's being delegated out.

[cd34]

There is a difference between being self employed and running a business and I think Mark's underlying idea might have been misread.

If you are self employed, you are directly responsible for your destiny. If you take off a few days, your revenue will fall off.

If you run a business, you are indirectly responsible for your destiny. Properly chosen employees/subcontractors will provide continuity when you are away. i.e. you take a 4 day vacation, revenue might fall slightly, but the overall entity should still be running.

An entrepreneur needs to learn how to delegate and how to find reliable partners, and, needs to learn how to communicate. Greenguy's problem is typical... it may be easier for him to just do it than to try to outsource it because it will get done exactly the way he wants. Or, it might be difficult for him to communicate an idea well enough for someone else to do it.

All tough issues to deal with as you grow, but, definitely issues to keep in teh back of your mind.

[karomesis]

Do they know what sells? If they did, why would they have to work for someone else?

Because some people are better than others at any given task or more prone to excell at it.

As I see it one of the problems is finding people that will put out decent work

True enough, I had to wait 3 weeks just to find a designer who could do a CSS design, but it was well worth it.

[cd34]

and I think Mark's other point was probably:

it is better to hire a specialist at a task than it is to learn how to do that task yourself in many cases.

For instance, it might be easier to hire a programmer than it is for you to learn how to program.

[MrYum]

Originally Posted by cd34

and I think Mark's other point was probably:

it is better to hire a specialist at a task than it is to learn how to do that task yourself in many cases.

For instance, it might be easier to hire a programmer than it is for you to learn how to program.

Yup, I'd agree that Sparky hit Mark's points on the head

I've done the outsourcing thing with some basic html work...thinking it was more productive to pay someone else to do grunt work rather than doing it myself. Long story, but the short version is...it was a complete and utter fiasco. Not only was the project delivered 90 days late and after fairly extreme measures on my part to extract it...the work was less than 70% complete...AND I had to redo what had been done.

That said, I will indeed jump into delegating various things again...when resources allow and the right individuals can be found. Being self employed is great, but I prefer to own a business where I oversee operations rather than performing them myself.

Sparky's latter point about specialization is another scenario where delegating comes into play. Sure I could learn programming given enough time, yet myself and a partner are currently paying a programmer to develop / troubleshoot / repair a script.

I could also learn how to do slick graphics and design, but that's not my forte' and my time is more productive in other areas. So, I'm currently working with Mark on the redesign of FPP as the job will be done sooner and more professionally then if I did the project myself.

[Useless]

I still think GG's main point rings true for this crowd.

Originally Posted by Greenguy

You do also have to have money to pay these extra people you speak of & I'd bet that most of the posters here on this particular board are 1-2 person operations.

Most of us are single person operations. We don't run anything larger than the domains you know us by. We are not companies in the classic sense. Outside the example I presented in my initial post, I can't imagine what I would need or even want to contract out for.

[tickler]

Originally Posted by cd34

For instance, it might be easier to hire a programmer than it is for you to learn how to program.

After 30 years in the systems and programming world, I have seen a lot of people who try to get into it for the money, and they maybe last a year. Not everybody is cut out to be detailed and precise with what they do.

I remember ripping a strip off a CSR at one of the billing companies, because he tried to tell me that the bug with referred WM commisions not being credited only affected my account. If some programmer is writing bad code that says "do this with one account, and do something else with the rest" they should be history.

[RawAlex]

Sparky, it should be pointed out (for balance only) that Mark runs just such a company - one that some of us might outsource some work to. Not to say that there is a underlying agenda, but there you go.

If I was building, say, 200 free hosted galleries for a paysite, I might outsource that. If I had a programming project that required exactly "this this and this", I could see outsourcing that. But most of us are not only doing donkey work, but we are also evolving our product as we go. Giving them off to someone else to build would likely require many more man hours to correct and redirect the work at each step.

That being said, I have some things on my desk that are, well, beyond my skill set, so yes I am looking for programming help on those issues. But that will require someone who is willing to do some "sweat equity" into owning part of an interesting project.

Alex

[Viper]

I currently have 1 person working part time for me and although the work she does may not always be as "good" as my work, that work wouldn't get done if it was just me. But I can teach and train her until it's more than good enough. It's also a matter of finding out what that persons stengths and weaknesses are. There are some things she's way better at than I am and so I try and move more of those types of things to her.

For me though, it's not so much about hiring someone to do some work for me. For me it's "trust". I don't want to teach someone how to do the things I do and then have them go off and compete against me. Nor do I want to have a company or someone do some work for me and then they use the results for their own benefit afterwards (eg: text descriptions, reviews, thumbs, galleries etc.). Frankly I'd like a solution so I could get more help.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by MarkTiarra

...The usual reasons are:

1) Fear of it not being done to their standards.
2) Logic of "why pay someone else to do what I can do anyway?"...

Originally Posted by cd34

and I think Mark's other point was probably:

it is better to hire a specialist at a task than it is to learn how to do that task yourself in many cases.

For instance, it might be easier to hire a programmer than it is for you to learn how to program.

No, I think he's speaking about things that you can do yourself.

I am a bit of a hypocrite about this, because I do have reviewers & I can review myself, but I can make more money doing other things & paying the reviewers.

I'm also doing work for other people that I know they can do on their own, but for whatever reason, they outsourced it to me, which is fine.

Of course, neither of those things brought in 10 times my original revenue either

How many people remember the mess that was Adult Buffet after James(?) left for a 3 month vacation? Every time I think about not doing it myself, I think of that.

Personally. I'd like to hear Jim's opinion on things.

[jds]

There are many good reasons for me today to outsource many of my tasks and transform them in duplicatable tasks to make it a full time job for an employee.
The problem is for me, how long is it gonna take for me to teach him the real use of it, the tips and tricks to make sure this tasks work 200% efficiency ... I think it's faster that I do it myself and I'm sure it'll done the way I want. If I take someone that's already qualified for it, why wouldn't he do it for himself, it will surely pay him more.

[Jim]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

No, I think he's speaking about things that you can do yourself.

I am a bit of a hypocrite about this, because I do have reviewers & I can review myself, but I can make more money doing other things & paying the reviewers.

I'm also doing work for other people that I know they can do on their own, but for whatever reason, they outsourced it to me, which is fine.

Of course, neither of those things brought in 10 times my original revenue either

How many people remember the mess that was Adult Buffet after James(?) left for a 3 month vacation? Every time I think about not doing it myself, I think of that.

Personally. I'd like to hear Jim's opinion on things.

I know you would like to hear my opinion on this. As I told you, I am not sure if I was asked by our mutual friend not to mention it or not. So, I will do it without using too many details.

There really is no reason to do much work at all in this business. All you really have to do is to convince a major linklist owner first, that you have many more connections than they do. And, that it would be in his or her best interest to turn over all preselling of advertising and all monies from that linklist to you. And then after avoiding phone calls for several months, and after finally being hunted down, you give that linklist owner a tiny percentage of what is rightfully due to him or her. Thinking back Mark, you know what I mean, right?

The best way to stay in this business by taking their money is to swindle someone so bad that they are embarrassed to bring it to the public eye.

Or I could be a complete idiot and you should just flame the shit out of this thread.

Probably the only thing you said that people who know you would believe you said without some sort of agenda behind it.

[DJilla]

Originally Posted by Jim

The best way to stay in this business by taking their money is to swindle someone so bad that they are embarrassed to bring it to the public eye.

Jim... I remember reading in a recent medical journal that under certain circumstances violence can be used to recover from embarrasment.

These posts were an interesting read and I'd like to add my 2 cents. Maybe not applying directly to this biz because obviously like GG said many sites are run by ma and pa shops chasing every buck. But, after many years and several successful businesses and loosing the one woman I really probably should have held on to, I came to one conclusion which is even for type A personalities who probably need this advice more than any and really has served me well.

The advice is to pay for every single service you can afford to have done for you and doesn't REALLY need to be done by you. Accept that other people are lesser mortals than yourself and might always deliver a slightly less product than you can come up with and incorporate that into the plan. Why? Two major reasons: one is that you as the leader are really required to THINK! Supervise everything you can and let go. Think about how to get the next client, how to grow your company, how to get ahead of the curve, and concentrate on implementing the plan. A successful plan always involves a team and the star player is rarely the coach for a reason. If you're always tied up doing menial tasks, your not going to be able to think your way to riches.

The other reason is if you are an independent businesperson then you probably are doing it for a reason such as freedom, control of destiny, a better life with family and friends, blah, blah. What happens to most entrepreneurs is that they really end up putting these things off in favor of working 18 hours a day on the belief that just as soon as they attain x,y, or z goal they will "take some time off", have a vacation, play ball with the kids and so on. But the reality is that those leisure time events rarely happen and the entrepreneur keeps plugging away for years and has missed everything else. Life is short and shit happens. If you make your own hours then be sure to use them on the things you imagined you would NOW! Don't wait. Quality of life is only while you have it! Years down the road you'll really appreciate the wisdom of not wasting it on just chasing money. Everybody probably has several stories of people who rose to the top through hard work and relentless dedication and then years later lost it all.

If a mope is available for peanuts, feed him the best peanuts he ever had. If someone is smarter than you and you can pay him, do it and congratulate yourself on a job well done as you go boating. Most of the most successful have THOUGHT themselves into their success.

[MarkTiarra]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

No, I think he's speaking about things that you can do yourself.

I am a bit of a hypocrite about this, because I do have reviewers & I can review myself, but I can make more money doing other things & paying the reviewers.

I'm also doing work for other people that I know they can do on their own, but for whatever reason, they outsourced it to me, which is fine.

Of course, neither of those things brought in 10 times my original revenue either

How many people remember the mess that was Adult Buffet after James(?) left for a 3 month vacation? Every time I think about not doing it myself, I think of that.

Personally. I'd like to hear Jim's opinion on things.

Yeah I was mostly just trying to make the point someone made better than I did above, which is to try and build a business vs. being self employed. Obviously if you are happy and making a comfortable living and enjoy the work you are doing, there is no reason to have to duplicate anything. My point was that most of us fall into the trap of wanting to grow something larger but getting in our own way for the reasons I mentioned.

[MrYum]

Originally Posted by DJilla

Jim... I remember reading in a recent medical journal that under certain circumstances violence can be used to recover from embarrasment.

These posts were an interesting read and I'd like to add my 2 cents. Maybe not applying directly to this biz because obviously like GG said many sites are run by ma and pa shops chasing every buck. But, after many years and several successful businesses and loosing the one woman I really probably should have held on to, I came to one conclusion which is even for type A personalities who probably need this advice more than any and really has served me well.

The advice is to pay for every single service you can afford to have done for you and doesn't REALLY need to be done by you. Accept that other people are lesser mortals than yourself and might always deliver a slightly less product than you can come up with and incorporate that into the plan. Why? Two major reasons: one is that you as the leader are really required to THINK! Supervise everything you can and let go. Think about how to get the next client, how to grow your company, how to get ahead of the curve, and concentrate on implementing the plan. A successful plan always involves a team and the star player is rarely the coach for a reason. If you're always tied up doing menial tasks, your not going to be able to think your way to riches.

The other reason is if you are an independent businesperson then you probably are doing it for a reason such as freedom, control of destiny, a better life with family and friends, blah, blah. What happens to most entrepreneurs is that they really end up putting these things off in favor of working 18 hours a day on the belief that just as soon as they attain x,y, or z goal they will "take some time off", have a vacation, play ball with the kids and so on. But the reality is that those leisure time events rarely happen and the entrepreneur keeps plugging away for years and has missed everything else. Life is short and shit happens. If you make your own hours then be sure to use them on the things you imagined you would NOW! Don't wait. Quality of life is only while you have it! Years down the road you'll really appreciate the wisdom of not wasting it on just chasing money. Everybody probably has several stories of people who rose to the top through hard work and relentless dedication and then years later lost it all.

If a mope is available for peanuts, feed him the best peanuts he ever had. If someone is smarter than you and you can pay him, do it and congratulate yourself on a job well done as you go boating. Most of the most successful have THOUGHT themselves into their success.

Damn...that deserves repeating!

Very well said DJ

[MarkTiarra]

Originally Posted by DJilla

Jim... I remember reading in a recent medical journal that under certain circumstances violence can be used to recover from embarrasment.

These posts were an interesting read and I'd like to add my 2 cents. Maybe not applying directly to this biz because obviously like GG said many sites are run by ma and pa shops chasing every buck. But, after many years and several successful businesses and loosing the one woman I really probably should have held on to, I came to one conclusion which is even for type A personalities who probably need this advice more than any and really has served me well.

The advice is to pay for every single service you can afford to have done for you and doesn't REALLY need to be done by you. Accept that other people are lesser mortals than yourself and might always deliver a slightly less product than you can come up with and incorporate that into the plan. Why? Two major reasons: one is that you as the leader are really required to THINK! Supervise everything you can and let go. Think about how to get the next client, how to grow your company, how to get ahead of the curve, and concentrate on implementing the plan. A successful plan always involves a team and the star player is rarely the coach for a reason. If you're always tied up doing menial tasks, your not going to be able to think your way to riches.

The other reason is if you are an independent businesperson then you probably are doing it for a reason such as freedom, control of destiny, a better life with family and friends, blah, blah. What happens to most entrepreneurs is that they really end up putting these things off in favor of working 18 hours a day on the belief that just as soon as they attain x,y, or z goal they will "take some time off", have a vacation, play ball with the kids and so on. But the reality is that those leisure time events rarely happen and the entrepreneur keeps plugging away for years and has missed everything else. Life is short and shit happens. If you make your own hours then be sure to use them on the things you imagined you would NOW! Don't wait. Quality of life is only while you have it! Years down the road you'll really appreciate the wisdom of not wasting it on just chasing money. Everybody probably has several stories of people who rose to the top through hard work and relentless dedication and then years later lost it all.

If a mope is available for peanuts, feed him the best peanuts he ever had. If someone is smarter than you and you can pay him, do it and congratulate yourself on a job well done as you go boating. Most of the most successful have THOUGHT themselves into their success.

That is the quote of the century man. In a few paragraphs you said what probably 100 books tried to get people to understand. Well put.

[Fonz]

Originally Posted by DJilla

Jim... I remember reading in a recent medical journal that under certain circumstances violence can be used to recover from embarrasment.

These posts were an interesting read and I'd like to add my 2 cents. Maybe not applying directly to this biz because obviously like GG said many sites are run by ma and pa shops chasing every buck. But, after many years and several successful businesses and loosing the one woman I really probably should have held on to, I came to one conclusion which is even for type A personalities who probably need this advice more than any and really has served me well.

The advice is to pay for every single service you can afford to have done for you and doesn't REALLY need to be done by you. Accept that other people are lesser mortals than yourself and might always deliver a slightly less product than you can come up with and incorporate that into the plan. Why? Two major reasons: one is that you as the leader are really required to THINK! Supervise everything you can and let go. Think about how to get the next client, how to grow your company, how to get ahead of the curve, and concentrate on implementing the plan. A successful plan always involves a team and the star player is rarely the coach for a reason. If you're always tied up doing menial tasks, your not going to be able to think your way to riches.

The other reason is if you are an independent businesperson then you probably are doing it for a reason such as freedom, control of destiny, a better life with family and friends, blah, blah. What happens to most entrepreneurs is that they really end up putting these things off in favor of working 18 hours a day on the belief that just as soon as they attain x,y, or z goal they will "take some time off", have a vacation, play ball with the kids and so on. But the reality is that those leisure time events rarely happen and the entrepreneur keeps plugging away for years and has missed everything else. Life is short and shit happens. If you make your own hours then be sure to use them on the things you imagined you would NOW! Don't wait. Quality of life is only while you have it! Years down the road you'll really appreciate the wisdom of not wasting it on just chasing money. Everybody probably has several stories of people who rose to the top through hard work and relentless dedication and then years later lost it all.

If a mope is available for peanuts, feed him the best peanuts he ever had. If someone is smarter than you and you can pay him, do it and congratulate yourself on a job well done as you go boating. Most of the most successful have THOUGHT themselves into their success.

Damn, that one sure got me thinking... well done DJ

[Surfn]

Originally Posted by Fonz

Damn, that one sure got me thinking... well done DJ

Oh shit!!! Look out now!!