Blogging and the Wisdom of Crowds

[walrus]

I have been suffering from insomnia recently so I went looking for things to read that might actually be boring enough to make my eyelids close voluntarily.

Unfortuntely, I found an article that had the reverse affect and supports a concept that I have been gently pushing for awhile now in that as porn bloggers, we need to embrace the community aspect of blogging to really reach the potential of the marketing medium we have chosen. I think the article expresses it much better than I can so I'll post the link for debate. Now there is a whole bunch of web 2.0 marketing stuff their as well, so I'm sure I can find something to bore me to sleep very shortly.

The Article

I admit I don't get out as much as I should but some of the blogs that I think work great as stepping stones for debate are Xlog, One Perverted Chick and MsNaughty's blog (sorry, I'm sure there are a bunch of others but like I said, I dont get around often) but all three of these sites usually post something that I could find easy to debate across blog plateforms. Anyone else interested.

Sorry, my lack of sleep has me not thinking really clear and rambling a bit so I hope that this post makes some sense

[ponygirl]

I wish I had insomnia, I'd get more done

I'm going to read that tomorrow and I'll let you know my 2 cents, for what it's worth

[virgohippy]

The three you mentioned are damn fine blogs - I hope I can add my unfinished project to that list when the time comes...


I think if I just put half as much energy into a real blog as I put into posting here I'll be all set.

Interesting find. Gives me just the motivation I need to push forward with my quest for a true blog.

[virgohippy]

What I found to be most interesting was the value placed on flexible data, software, and business models. Although, I imagine anyone working with porn can probably attest to these concept pretty easily.

Set inclusive defaults for aggregating user data as a side-effect of their use of the application.

The first thing that comes to mind for me is the equivalent of valuing content based on view count and possilby anonymous surveys/voting. I'm sure there's more, just can't think of any at the moment. Anyone else?

I think I need more practice at thinking up stuff to make this one work:

Design for "hackability" and "remixability."

[Simon]

I feel honored to have Xlog mentioned in this way.

I'm only part way through page one of the five-page article you posted, Walrus, but you can definitely count me in for some cross-blog debates.

[ponygirl]

Interesting article.

I must admit, when I started a blog it was basically one of those 'this is a cool idea, let's try it' type of things. A personal blog fits perfectly with those of us who have those PAY ATTENTION TO ME personalities

What I didn't quite get at the time was the whole 'dynamic' aspect of blogging. It IS really hard to keep it updated, it takes a lot of time, and I don't know anywhere near enough about the whole thing yet. Technorati, permalinks, trackbacks, RSS - I knew nothing and am still on a very steep learning curve that I'm trying to cram in between everything else I'm doing. For someone who is used to 'build, submit and forget' this is a real challenge, and the community aspect of blogging is an area where I am sorely lacking.

'If it were merely an amplifier, blogging would be uninteresting. But like Wikipedia, blogging harnesses collective intelligence as a kind of filter. What James Suriowecki calls "the wisdom of crowds" comes into play, and much as PageRank produces better results than analysis of any individual document, the collective attention of the blogosphere selects for value.'

I read the linked blurb about Suriowecki's theory and find this very interesting. It's funny because I was just having a conversation with hubby about how things like Youtube & blogging are going to affect the future, giving 'regular' people as a whole more power and influence than ever before. Big business and government cannot stop the information from flowing, and I think their control over society is going to decline as the collective group becomes more adept at sharing ideas and opinions in a more global way. I love this line:

'large groups of people are smarter than an elite few, no matter how brilliant—better at solving problems, fostering innovation, coming to wise decisions, even predicting the future.'

Which fits perfectly with my thoughts that one person (or political party, or corporation) controlling the masses is just not working and has to change.

So Walrus, when you talk about the community aspect of blogging, especially in 'adult' blogging, how do you suggest we incorporate that into our own blogs and business models? For myself, I want my blog to be personal, while at the same time to be a way to drive some traffic to my other sites, rather than a sales-generating machine. I have found a few good ones out there that are similar, but wading through a ton of splogs and babelogs (and what I call deadblogs - ones that haven't been updated in 6 months) to find the 'real' blogs is tough. Then when I do find them, I'm really at a loss as to what to do other than trading links. I guess I need to work on my blog social skills lol.

I have way too much to learn, I'm really glad there's some good teachers here

[walrus]

Originally Posted by ponygirl

So Walrus, when you talk about the community aspect of blogging, especially in 'adult' blogging, how do you suggest we incorporate that into our own blogs and business models? For myself, I want my blog to be personal, while at the same time to be a way to drive some traffic to my other sites, rather than a sales-generating machine. I have found a few good ones out there that are similar, but wading through a ton of splogs and babelogs (and what I call deadblogs - ones that haven't been updated in 6 months) to find the 'real' blogs is tough. Then when I do find them, I'm really at a loss as to what to do other than trading links. I guess I need to work on my blog social skills lol.

I have way too much to learn, I'm really glad there's some good teachers here

I agree there is an overabondance of crap out there that makes just searching decent blogs a difficult task for any one person. But as a community, the task becomes much less daunting. Plus, like you already said, breaking that build and submit mentality is a difficult one, blogging is a long term commitment which means that it's easy to get either discouraged or allow changes in prority as results are slow to come and it's hard to take it on faith that doing so will benefit you in the long run.

So, I guess what I am suggesting is that we, those who are participating in this thread, form a community and spend a little time each day checking out eachothers blogs....and leaving comments or doing trackbacks to them, or some combination of both. In other words , we generate conversations with each other. You, when you post, are pretty easy to do that with because you look at porn from a different perspective, a female one. In the long run, I think that can and will generate a lot of interest. Plus, others are much more likely to comment when they see others have on a post.

Simon also posts stuff that its pretty easy to converse about. As an example, he talked about pube dye yesterday. It was reallly pretty simple to work that into a trackback from my blog and still post a little porn to go along with it.

You and Simons blogs are pretty easy for me to keep up on simply because of your RSS feeds. Your feed is used on XXX Blog Feeds and I use the xlog feeds in my sidebars on almost every blog I do. Therefore, I would suggest using a RSS reader to keep tabs on whats going on at a few of the blogs plus when you leave a comment or a trackback, subscribe to the comments RSS feed. That way, you know and are able to follow the dialog.

Also, as a community, when we find others we invite them in and try to grow.

Yes, it would take time but, based on everything I've read, would in the long run pay dividends much worth the time.

[virgohippy]

Originally Posted by walrus

Plus, others are much more likely to comment when they see others have on a post.

I can vouch for this. Back when I kept a private little personal blog I noticed comments seemed to come in waves - a bunch at once, or none at all.

[GrosCochon]

Great post, great tread. This article was incredibly interesting for a clueless newbie like me. It made me understand a little better the concept behind blogging. It also makes me think that my original concept for my blog is obselete, and closer to a very slow tgp rather than a web log. This has given me ideas, I made a much bigger effort in writing a text about the gallery that I posted today and offering to users to interact with my blog.(post a comment)

It took me a long time to decide how I was going to enter the adult biz and decided when I discovered blogging through this site They essentialy suggests to mass produce low quality blogs and update them automatically with plugins. The posts in those blogs will generally be 1 line of text, with one thumbnail going to a gallery. Right off the start it seemed a bit odd to me, seeing as how blogs are supposed to seek search engine traffic which is attracted by good text? I'm sure it works well for a few, but seems like an uninteresting way of doing things. I'd much rather focus on a small amout of blogs with high quality content..

Originally Posted by ponygirl
For myself, I want my blog to be personal, while at the same time to be a way to drive some traffic to my other sites, rather than a sales-generating machine.

I surfed around on the blogs posted in the various signatures, and I have to say they are amazing!

So my newbie question/rambling to you pros is, do you think it is possible to only have one (or a few) quality blog as a main source of income? Or do you absolutely need other types of sites(like how ponygirl has that liquisexx site) in order to make any money?

Thanks in advance

[walrus]

Originally Posted by GrosCochon

So my newbie question/rambling to you pros is, do you think it is possible to only have one (or a few) quality blog as a main source of income? Or do you absolutely need other types of sites(like how ponygirl has that liquisexx site) in order to make any money? Thanks in advance

Blogging is a long term commitment and I think it would take a few years and a lot of experimenting to get to the postion that a few quality blogs could be ones main source of income. Therefore, having a strategy that does more than just quality blogs makes sense to me.

Whether that strategy is to build splogs like explained at zippedsites or build freesites / galleries. Honestly, I think a freesite / gallery strategy will work better for you than the splog route but since I don't build freesites or galleries thats purely an opinion and i have absolutely no facts to base it on.

I do know some people who started building galleries and have moved on to mass splogging and clain they are having much better success as mass sploggers.

Either way, I think you need both a short term and a long term strategy to be successful.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by ponygirl

... I'm really at a loss as to what to do other than trading links. I guess I need to work on my blog social skills lol.

One thing that will help is to review the comments waiting for approval. It's hard to start a dialogue unless the comments appear after they're posted.

[GrosCochon]

Originally Posted by walrus

I think you need both a short term and a long term strategy to be successful.

So I'll have to keep updating and learning to produce higher quality texts and posts on my main(s) blogs, while start producing splogs to get the money rolling. That sounds logic, thanks for the reply.

I guess the money is somewhere at the end of a long hard learning path, but it's worth it. And whats great about learning this biz is that people are always willing to help

[jayeff]

There are some serious pitfalls in trying to generalize about blogs.

I run a string of health-related sites and for them it is vital to provide something which is both readable and informative. Those blogs also seem to be very interactive, since people love to talk about what ails them. But I think it was the people at blogger.com who estimated that overall around 96% of blog comments - if you include the acceptable comments which say something relevant but then mention "btw I have posted on a similar topic over at..." - are spam.

Porn however, for the majority is primarily visual, so while it is good to add text for the benefit of the search engines, you would need a very individual "take" on the topic or style, for too much text not to get in the way. Fetish and swinger sites can be exceptions. Solo sites or photographer's sites too. But I don't think the majority of porn blog webmasters would be best served by going too far in that direction.

[ponygirl]

I haven't been here much the last couple of days so I just read all of the replies here, and I just have to say THANK YOU for the multi quote function!

Originally Posted by walrus

So, I guess what I am suggesting is that we, those who are participating in this thread, form a community and spend a little time each day checking out eachothers blogs....and leaving comments or doing trackbacks to them, or some combination of both. In other words , we generate conversations with each other.

I have lots of opinions and always have lots to say, but usually I just sit back and listen. I'll be honest, when I thought of blogging, it was a pretty one sided idea. I have a hard time being part of a community (that antisocial tendency ya know ) Being at GG&J has helped me with that but I still have to push myself to communicate with others, online and off. It's hard to even post that LOL but just so you know where I'm coming from. Having said that, I want to make changes to my routine to do this, because I really do love blogging and like the idea of a 'blogging community' with the people here.

Originally Posted by GrosCochon

They essentialy suggests to mass produce low quality blogs and update them automatically with plugins. The posts in those blogs will generally be 1 line of text, with one thumbnail going to a gallery.

see, to me that's not really a blog. I'll venture a thought that this is just a fad, a new way to deliver an old product. I also think that it will die out once people realize that it's easier to do a tgp than keep a blog updated, even with sponsors offering blog tools. (that's just my opinion though, I may be wrong)

Originally Posted by GrosCochon

So my newbie question/rambling to you pros is, do you think it is possible to only have one (or a few) quality blog as a main source of income? Or do you absolutely need other types of sites(like how ponygirl has that liquisexx site) in order to make any money?

make money?? LOL Seriously, I think in this biz you need to have a really diverse network to make any money at all. Link list, tgp, hubs, freesites/galleries, other types of pages...find out what you like to do and do lots of them. You need to build up lots traffic and then figure out what to do with that traffic. Money takes a long time and lots of experimenting, the biggest thing you need is time. Measured in years

Originally Posted by Simon

One thing that will help is to review the comments waiting for approval. It's hard to start a dialogue unless the comments appear after they're posted.

see above personal admission, Simon Truthfully, I'm not used to getting real comments, I'll have to actually start looking more often.

consider me professionally reproached hehe

Originally Posted by jayeff

Porn however, for the majority is primarily visual, so while it is good to add text for the benefit of the search engines, you would need a very individual "take" on the topic or style, for too much text not to get in the way. Fetish and swinger sites can be exceptions. Solo sites or photographer's sites too. But I don't think the majority of porn blog webmasters would be best served by going too far in that direction.

I think what people have to realize is that a blog is very different from other, more traditional porn sites. A blog with just a pic and a couple lines of text to me is not a true blog anyway. Your traffic is going to be very different than say a TGP or LL - the traffic I want can actually read (just kidding, but you know what I mean ).

Now just going off the top of my head here but to give you an idea of how I think to make money from a blog:
Reader doesn't surf porn because they've had a bad experience/don't know how to/think it's beneath them/are embarrassed to/whatever. They like to read, though, and find some interesting blogs that are titillating/erotic/interesting/dirty...They keep coming back to the blog because they like it. One particular post talks about something they find exciting, and it's got a link to a gallery of pics or something (I usually link to galleries instead of posting pics right on my blog). Now, they like this person's blog, they've been coming back a while, hmmm...maybe they will try some of this porn stuff. They'll check out my other sites and see what's there or maybe buy a membership from a site I've promoted to see what it's all about.

There's my sale. Now that's pretty simplistic, but that's what I'm thinking of when I look at the long term of blogs like mine. I really don't expect sales directly from the blog, I hope to get some new surfers coming to my other sites from a more non traditional traffic source.

anyway, that's a pretty big post I need a cup of tea so I'll stop there and let someone else say something

[walrus]

Originally Posted by jayeff

There are some serious pitfalls in trying to generalize about blogs.

I run a string of health-related sites and for them it is vital to provide something which is both readable and informative. Those blogs also seem to be very interactive, since people love to talk about what ails them. But I think it was the people at blogger.com who estimated that overall around 96% of blog comments - if you include the acceptable comments which say something relevant but then mention "btw I have posted on a similar topic over at..." - are spam.

Porn however, for the majority is primarily visual, so while it is good to add text for the benefit of the search engines, you would need a very individual "take" on the topic or style, for too much text not to get in the way. Fetish and swinger sites can be exceptions. Solo sites or photographer's sites too. But I don't think the majority of porn blog webmasters would be best served by going too far in that direction.

First, I don't think I'm addressing the majority of porn blog webmasters. I'm addressing those who are already doing something a little different or those that may want to do something a little different. I'm encouraging people to look at doing something different.

What most people pass as good advice to porn bloggers is nothing more than repackaged good advice to free-site builders or gallery builders. If that was my main goal, I'd be much better off building free-sites since link lists are much bigger traffic pumps than any blog directory.

On the other hand, I think almost everyone would agree that the way people are using the web is going through a change. Blogging, as described in the article I posted seems to be working very well in mainstream and I think it would be personally shortsighted to not study it and find ways to adopt it's principles in an adult environment.

Am I encouraging people to experiment....yes. Am I experimenting....yes. Does the experiment have a basis for success....I believe so. But notice, nowhere do I advise anyone to abandon what you would consider traditional porn blogging.

[walrus]

Originally Posted by ponygirl

I have lots of opinions and always have lots to say, but usually I just sit back and listen. I'll be honest, when I thought of blogging, it was a pretty one sided idea. I have a hard time being part of a community (that antisocial tendency ya know ) Being at GG&J has helped me with that but I still have to push myself to communicate with others, online and off. It's hard to even post that LOL but just so you know where I'm coming from. Having said that, I want to make changes to my routine to do this, because I really do love blogging and like the idea of a 'blogging community' with the people here.

I'm a pretty anti-social type myself which is why you'll find I have very few posts outside of this topic. It's also why you'll see me places like OTB, listening silently.

[virgohippy]

I see a lot of people using blogs as a way to enhance intimacy in personal relationships.

For adult blogging, I imagine talking about sex, masturbation and fantasies in much the same way would be of interest to those explorers of the erotic mind. Not everyone responds primarily to visual stimulation, afterall. It's an intimacy thing - getting to know how a person thinks and causing an erotic reaction within that mind can be very arousing.

Personally, I'm more attracted to people I have a feel for then people I've rarely interracted with, and flirtation is a sure fire way to get me horny.

EDIT - and when I get horny I like to use my Fleshlight. (That's product placement for you.)

[walrus]

Leave it to a hippy to bring "feelings" in this

But you do raise an interesting point and that is...considering perceptual modes. But that really is a bit off topic so.....

[virgohippy]

Originally Posted by walrus

Leave it to a hippy to bring "feelings" in this

Originally Posted by walrus

But you do raise an interesting point and that is...considering perceptual modes. But that really is a bit off topic so.....

You're right, discussing mode of perception is off topic. Forgive me: the article you introduced is filled with technical stuff... I'd rather think of what the applications of all that technical stuff might be.

If the topic is attempting to figure out some long term strategies, the use of "feelings" tactics, like a bunch of friendly posting, trackbacking, and commenting bloggers interacting with each other through adult blogs in an uninhibited manner, seems very web 2.0 AND marketing friendly. No?

Since OTB was brought up, imagine how much publicity FetishClub could gain if Simon was jived in a public blog-o-sphere as much as he is in those private webmaster chats. Doubtless, it would be entertaining if the surfers to learned how to play along too.

All that friendly banter/debate/play becomes the unique "database" that's valuable, rather then the "I have a blog script" part. And posts become more easily exportable in an emotional sense so surfers/viewers are more likely to spread the content for you.

Or maybe I'm just not getting what this thread is all about.

[walrus]

Actually, it was me that was about to head off topic, your comments really weren't. Sometimes I'll do that....be thinking of something to say but realize that it would detract from the thread and instead of just stopping where I am, I'll write something to remind myself not to do so since I reread from 3-4 posts up to make sure I stay on track and if I read whatever it was that sent my mind running in the wrong direction, the reminder gets me back in line.

Sorry, I didn't mean to say that you were going off topic.

And yes, you are getting it, it's exactly the type of thing I'm talking about.

[jayeff]

Originally Posted by virgohippy

Doubtless, it would be entertaining if the surfers to learned how to play along too.

Go visit Amazon, some would say home to one of the earliest and best known "Web2" applications, pick a best-seller and count the number of reader reviews. Think about that number in relation to the number of copies Amazon are likely to have sold. Do the same exercise on Overstock or any sites of that ilk. Consider that at their peak, all of Yahoo's chatrooms combined, although the numbers were hugely impressive for a single website, they didn't amount to more than a tiny fraction of a percent of the people online at any one time.

The internet is global, therefore in some corner of it you could surely find people discussing the digestive cycle of silkworms. I have a friend who sells hand-made duck lures. Far more obscure topics all have a home and an audience, but as O'Reilly himself points out, "Every significant internet application to date has been backed by a specialized database". The internet is primarily a search space, whether someone be looking for text from "War and Peace", for pictures of a stranger's holiday in the Antarctic, or for a christmas gift for grandma. Although interactivity is a much-touted feature of the internet and it does appeal to many people, what you might almost call voyeurism - peeking into other peoples' lives and interests - has a far greater appeal.

That is not the impression you will get if you start visiting certain types of blog regularly. But then when I was opposed to the Vietnam war I spent a lot of my time with other protestors and it was easy to forget that most of the world simply couldn't care less about what was going on in SE Asia. Blogger.com however, found that over 90% of users' blogs were gathering dust and estimated that around 96% of all blog comments - including those with superficially on-topic comments but which nevertheless slip in "I have written on this topic at..." - are spam.

What does any of this have to do with this thread? Bear with me...

There is nothing to prevent anyone creating a blog. Over time their writing skills will improve and they will learn how to introduce more interesting information and/or opinion. It will often be natural to mention other bloggers and to be mentioned by them. The audience will grow and a handful from that audience will contribute material of their own. But that is an explanation of a process: it is not a formula for successful blogging, particularly not successful commercial blogging.

I have been a professional writer. I wrote for (national) newspapers and magazines and I have a book which was a best-seller in its day and is still in print, 20 years later. To get into print I had to convince someone to give me the space and that is a hurdle a blogger doesn't have to overcome. But once you have reached an audience, your readers will decide whether they are interested in what you have to say. From that perspective blogs are no different from any other media.

And the reality is that most would-be writers will get a thumbs down. That's a reality which shouldn't deter anyone who really wants to talk to an audience and believes he or she has something to say that an audience will care about. If you have the drive and talent to go that way and make it work, you have my respect and admiration. But within the context of a webmaster board, that is not a direction in which you would reasonably point very many people.

The vast majority of commercial webmasters need a much more pragmatic approach. They should spell correctly and write grammatically, but their job need not go beyond providing enough of the right text as bait for the search engines and content to keep their visitors happy and encourage them to spend money.

Unless they have a traffic source pumping in large numbers of visitors, most webmasters are likely to be better off finding ways to produce multiple blogs efficiently, since no single blog of this kind is ever likely to enjoy a huge audience. That need not and should not mean they produce unappealing "splogs", TGP's with a new face: just something which doesn't place unrealistic demands on their writing skills and/or their work schedule. For example, on a Monday write an article which appears in 10 blogs. On Tuesday write another article which appears in 2 of them and 8 more. Etc. Thus you can satisfy the search engines and your audiences and over time have a reasonable expectation of building that audience to significant numbers.

I'm all for passion and committment and I enjoy seeing both. But I also believe it is important to distinguish between what may work for us individually and what may be perceived as universally applicable.

[BadWolf]

Well, as you know, Walrus, I advocate having more of a community among adult bloggers myself over at the other forum. This is my first post here, I think, btw, so it's appropriate that I picked this thread. My focus is less on comments as I agree most comments are spam and I have comments on all my blogs turned off as I don't have the time to wade through 100+ comments to find a good one. But I think your idea of building a community of webmasters who work together is a good one.

[ronnie]

Good thread as usually from Walrus, but dang so much to read..lol

I think we really have to remember where blogging comes from, the roots. Of course we know it came from personal diary type sites/pages. The point is, most of it was started as a hobby, people talking about something they enjoy, or something they are pissed about, or whats going on in their life, ect, ect. It was not really done as a way to generate traffic or make money, it was done as a hobby in their spare time, to voice heir opinion good or bad.

I am not trying to go off topic, but just thinking, maybe if we tried changing our mindset to what blogging was and still is in some places. Not only to create better blogs, but think along the same lines as to what a real blogging community is. But are we in a catch 22, trying to create good usefull popular blogs but still make money?

Boogie bought up becoming a community a while back, reading each others blogs, posting comments, track backs, ect. Did'nt seem to go anywhere. I think it's a great idea, but how many webmasters have the time? How many do this full time and to make full time income have very full plates. Or how many work a full time job and do this on the side? I really hate to be negative, but time is so much an issue. How many would commit or keep their commitment?

As others have said, I also have turned off my comments so time back. I was just getting way too much spam and have'nt had time to put in some spam blockers. It's really getting out of hand if you ask me. Not just my blogs, but seems just about every frickn form I have on the net, even clients sites gets spammed.

jayeff did bring up a good point, the voyeurist end, peeking in the lives of others, I know it has worked for me, I just need to do more of it. That could be a great "community" to start.

ronnie

[walrus]

I've got to say that since I posted this and started playing around with it, I'm having a blast and since both google traffic and bookmarkers have risen....well, I let you be the judge.

[virgohippy]

Originally Posted by walrus

I've got to say that since I posted this and started playing around with it, I'm having a blast and since both google traffic and bookmarkers have risen....well, I let you be the judge.

I'm pleasantly surprised by the quick popularity my new blog has gained in such short time too!

I haven't even claimed my blog on technorati yet, and they're already sending me traffic.

Too bad I've been busy the past few days...