Grand Jury in Kansas takes all day to decide a nude statue isn't obscene

xxxlaw · 2012-10-27, 05:22 PM

t took a Johnson County, Kansas Grand Jury all day to figure out that a fairly cubist statue of a nude or partially nude hiker girl taking a picture of herself isn't obscene - and to me, the real news is that it took all day to reach that conclusion. Here's the story and what I had to say about it.

http://www.kshb.com/dpp/news/region_...ue-not-obscene

It took them all day to come to the conclusion that this highly stylized work that suggests vanity and narcissism, self-adultation and self-worship - which is after all the root of all of the problems that' have plagued humanity from the start - possesses serious artistic value? (And the absence of that "serious value" is one of the three things that must be proven to render any work obscene. No matter how prurient the appeal of the work, no matter how shockingly and patently the work offends contemporary community norms of what is permissible or accepted, IF it possesses serious artistic value, it cannot be obscene. Why? Because our Patriot forefathers correctly came to the judgment that all of society itself would become the victim - if any expression that adds to the debate about the basic questions about humanity - could be outlawed, criminalized, and taken out of society's view. That's a distinctively American value, what we invented, and what sets us apart from the rest of the world. Remember, it was a Statue of Liberty our immigrant ancestors looked up to when they arrived in New York harbor, not a Statue of "Decency".)

One hundred and fifty years ago, my Great Grandfather, then 16, was fighting insurgents all through Kansas in the Civil War, and forty years ago, I left 30 pounds behind as I trained to become an Army officer at Fort Riley. I'd like to think that we, and all of the others who've served in the military to protect American values, were fighting/serving for exactly this same right of every American to freely express and communicate their point of view through any means that can affect minds. Bravo to the Grand Jury. It's only tragic that the decision was not obvious to them in ten minutes.

Read about what obscenity is and is not here: http://www.xxxlaw.com/obscenity/index.html

ecchi · 2012-10-29, 05:35 AM

Think yourself lucky it only took a day. Over here the government would probably ordered an enquiry consisting of a panel of top judges, retired politicians and members of the public (all highly paid). They would question everyone involved, a large number of experts on obscenity, anyone with an opinion, and a large number of people with no interest or qualifications whatsoever. They would go on fact finding missions to Amsterdam's red light district, Bangkok, and anywhere else they could find the flimsiest excuse to arrange a junket to. Then after five years and several million pounds wasted, they would publish a five hundred page report on the matter. The report would finish with the conclusion that "The statue is of a girl who is either naked and partially naked. The public perception of the obscenity varies across the country, with people in cities being more tolerant to states of undress than people living in more rural areas. Age is also a factor in the perception of the obscenity, or non-obscenity of nudity or partial nudity. Thereby it is the conclusion of this enquiry that the statue is either obscene or not obscene."

bxy · 2012-10-31, 04:33 PM

ecchi, now that's English Humor!

CD Smith · 2012-11-02, 02:07 PM

Yeah, only a day? Wow. That in itself is amazing to me. Had you said a month it would have been less amazing, but still somewhat amazing.

When governments and legal authorities take forever to decide on the least little thing, especially one that is obvious as shit to the rest of us, and they cost the taxpayers tens of thousands if not millions of dollars to reach those decisions, it actually doesn't surprise me in the least. In light of all that this one day decision seems quite expedited to me.

jaYMan · 2012-11-05, 01:38 AM

Never heard of courts deciding anything in just a day lol.

xxxlaw · 2012-11-06, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaYMan

Never heard of courts deciding anything in just a day lol.

In a grand jury, it's not an "adversary" process. The only lawyer present in the prosecutor. He presents his evidence and makes his argument, he leaves the room, and eventually they vote. It does not take a unanimous verdict, just a majority. Everyday, men get indicted in fifteen minutes or less. Because these proceedings are secret until unsealed by the court, you won't be reading about them in the papers.

Yes, it's astounding that it took a big chunk of a day to reach this result - merely a nonsexual statue - and that's handwriting on the wall for this Industry about Johnson County, KS.

2012-10-27, 05:22 PM	#1
xxxlaw Aw, Dad, you've done a lot of great things, but you're a very old man, and old people are useless Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: On the shores of Lake Michigan Posts: 22	Grand Jury in Kansas takes all day to decide a nude statue isn't obscene t took a Johnson County, Kansas Grand Jury all day to figure out that a fairly cubist statue of a nude or partially nude hiker girl taking a picture of herself isn't obscene - and to me, the real news is that it took all day to reach that conclusion. Here's the story and what I had to say about it. http://www.kshb.com/dpp/news/region_...ue-not-obscene It took them all day to come to the conclusion that this highly stylized work that suggests vanity and narcissism, self-adultation and self-worship - which is after all the root of all of the problems that' have plagued humanity from the start - possesses serious artistic value? (And the absence of that "serious value" is one of the three things that must be proven to render any work obscene. No matter how prurient the appeal of the work, no matter how shockingly and patently the work offends contemporary community norms of what is permissible or accepted, IF it possesses serious artistic value, it cannot be obscene. Why? Because our Patriot forefathers correctly came to the judgment that all of society itself would become the victim - if any expression that adds to the debate about the basic questions about humanity - could be outlawed, criminalized, and taken out of society's view. That's a distinctively American value, what we invented, and what sets us apart from the rest of the world. Remember, it was a Statue of Liberty our immigrant ancestors looked up to when they arrived in New York harbor, not a Statue of "Decency".) One hundred and fifty years ago, my Great Grandfather, then 16, was fighting insurgents all through Kansas in the Civil War, and forty years ago, I left 30 pounds behind as I trained to become an Army officer at Fort Riley. I'd like to think that we, and all of the others who've served in the military to protect American values, were fighting/serving for exactly this same right of every American to freely express and communicate their point of view through any means that can affect minds. Bravo to the Grand Jury. It's only tragic that the decision was not obvious to them in ten minutes. Read about what obscenity is and is not here: http://www.xxxlaw.com/obscenity/index.html __________________ JD Obenberger

2012-10-31, 04:33 PM	#3
bxy WHO IS FONZY!?! Don't they teach you anything at school? Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 44	ecchi, now that's English Humor! __________________ Alien Car Show

2012-11-02, 02:07 PM	#4
CD Smith The one and only at your service Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Winnipeg, MB, Canada Posts: 669	Yeah, only a day? Wow. That in itself is amazing to me. Had you said a month it would have been less amazing, but still somewhat amazing. When governments and legal authorities take forever to decide on the least little thing, especially one that is obvious as shit to the rest of us, and they cost the taxpayers tens of thousands if not millions of dollars to reach those decisions, it actually doesn't surprise me in the least. In light of all that this one day decision seems quite expedited to me. __________________ ICQ: 31024634

2012-11-05, 01:38 AM	#5
jaYMan Lord help me, I'm just not that bright Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Middle America Posts: 109	Never heard of courts deciding anything in just a day lol. __________________ Wasteland!

2012-10-29, 05:35 AM	#2
ecchi Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: About to be evicted!!!! Posts: 4,082	Think yourself lucky it only took a day. Over here the government would probably ordered an enquiry consisting of a panel of top judges, retired politicians and members of the public (all highly paid). They would question everyone involved, a large number of experts on obscenity, anyone with an opinion, and a large number of people with no interest or qualifications whatsoever. They would go on fact finding missions to Amsterdam's red light district, Bangkok, and anywhere else they could find the flimsiest excuse to arrange a junket to. Then after five years and several million pounds wasted, they would publish a five hundred page report on the matter. The report would finish with the conclusion that "The statue is of a girl who is either naked and partially naked. The public perception of the obscenity varies across the country, with people in cities being more tolerant to states of undress than people living in more rural areas. Age is also a factor in the perception of the obscenity, or non-obscenity of nudity or partial nudity. Thereby it is the conclusion of this enquiry that the statue is either obscene or not obscene."