lax rules or is it just me?

[ponygirl]

I've been noticing recently some submitters getting a little more, shall we say, adventurous I see a few things I would have normally rejected (or gotten rejected) for passing through. Borderline blind links and banners, mostly - although I'll be the first to say I know there's no trying to screw the surfer or anything like that. Most of the time, these sites are listed where they're submitted, big guys included, and I'm thinking maybe I'm being too uptight??

I thought about this when I recently changed my rules. I don't want it to be a free-for-all, and I certainly don't want to be telling anyone it's ok to put blind links on your sites, but maybe it'll encourage some change in the freesite model, which could be a good thing. Or do we need to get tougher again & rein it in?

any LL owners care to comment?

[Lemmy]

I've relaxed my reviewing habits a lot lately. I don't count seconds on movies or pixels on pics. If the freesite as a whole looks decent I'm not going to decline if a link opens in a new window. If a banner looks like a banner I don't care if it has thumbs on it. But if I think the submitter is actively trying to deceive the surfer I'll decline no matter how perfect the site is otherwise.

I have also tried to reduce the number of rules to a minimum, just keeping the essentials. I don't think anyone will take that as an invite to screw me over, because hardly anybody reads them anyway.

Having said all this, I have also become quicker, much quicker, to hit the ban button. I have a lot of patience and understanding for honest mistakes. I'm willing to think outside the box and communicate with submitters and there have been occasions when a submitter has convinced me that I was unreasonable. But if you're just a lazy cheating fuck you're out.

[LowryBigwood]

Sometimes it's easy to put up a blind link and not even realize it. I am sure I am guilty of it more than once.

I allow a little flexibility with what I will list, I actually want the submitters to change it up and try new things. Just don't try to deceive the surfers as Lemmy said. I am pretty easy going and my rules are standard.

[ladydesigner]

I've also recently started going easier on some rules - like blind links. I also don't count clip times, picture sizes (unless they are obviously way too small), etc. That being said, I think I've become very "Ban Happy". I've gotten so tired of repeating myself to submitters that can't take the time to read my rejection emails that I now ban first, ask questions later.

[Licker4U]

Originally Posted by ponygirl

I've been noticing recently some submitters getting a little more, shall we say, adventurous

Can you make up some examples that are similar to what you're getting? I know I got a site that had between paragraphs, a line linked to the tour that said something like "Why are you waiting?" That in and of itself is blind but another webmaster said that since in the preceeding and following paragraph the pay site was mentioned they would let it ride. That's very borderline to me.

[SheepGuy]

I'm easy, I've always been easy
I don't get a lot of crap submissions anyways

[ponygirl]

ok, I definitely see a pattern here

I see a lot of flexibility from the smaller linklists (of which I include myself ) and some of the bigger ones too...mostly the ones that seem to be anal about the rules are established LLs, but not too many of the ones on this board actually. I've seen a general loosening of the rules over the past few months, which is why I tried to be pretty broad in my new ones - most of the stuff I'm really concerned about don't have much to do with the actual site design anyway.

Originally Posted by Licker4U

Can you make up some examples that are similar to what you're getting? I know I got a site that had between paragraphs, a line linked to the tour that said something like "Why are you waiting?" That in and of itself is blind but another webmaster said that since in the preceeding and following paragraph the pay site was mentioned they would let it ride. That's very borderline to me.

yep, like that, plus I get some with links like 'see the videos here' or 'see more free movies' which go to the pay site...now most paysites have video tours now so I guess it's not false, but I always built assuming that type of link is blind. Also I remember we had a discussion a while back about what was considered one link (pic & text placement, for instance) and I see a few thumb type banners with text links, only the text link is pretty far from the thumb, if you know what I mean.

I'm not really declining for that stuff, especially if I know the submitter, I just was wondering what everyone else was doing

Like Lemmy & ladydesigner, I do find my ban list getting pretty long, though. I'll send a few rejection emails if there is a problem, but after a couple three of them, you kinda know they're not reading them.

Originally Posted by SheepGuy

I'm easy, I've always been easy

who, YOU???

[Useless]

This is a cyclical phenomenon. Once or twice per year the free site community seems to test its boundaries to see how far it can go before being slapped on the muzzle. (My kids do the same thing when I let them out of their cages.) I've been seeing more large thumbs (not even banner-like) linked to tours, which aggravates the piss out of me - and the resurgence of "More blah blah Here" linked text. I'm generally pretty laid back while reviewing and tend to overlook most deviations, but that's the kind of crap that makes me want to slap someone with the string of anal beads I stole from a dead gay homeless guy.

[Fonz]

I've been going easier on the "blind links" too but still count pictures, movie length etc. You got to have some structure in the sites you list IMO

[plateman]

blind links? movie length? grammer?

I am pulling my hair out with all of the submitters that are clearly using a submitter on auto and free hosts and just total shit sites being submitted...with other LL that I've never heard of...


all I will say now is the day is comming...very soon at that infact

[Preacher]

I figure what really can I say when I submit pic sites to movie only linklists.

As above though, I've been banning new submitters like mad.

The submitters I have are great. Getting new good submitters seems a rare but welcome occurance nowadays.

[ponygirl]

I agree with UW, it seems every so often I start seeing the rules being pushed to the limits...then either LL owners start getting stricter, or maybe rules start changing a bit.

the thing that kind of ticks me off is that I'm a submitter as well as an LL owner, and I don't like people trying to get away with things that I wouldn't try to get away with. I'm a real stickler for rules, I guess that's what comes from being a civil servant for a while So I figured the less rules I had, the less I'd have to worry about enforcing.

I'm finding that I'm reviewing more based on the site itself - is there some good, easy to find content, and does it look half decent design-wise. If that's the case, then it's easier to overlook some of the other stuff. Bottom line is that I want good content for my surfers. Preacher is right in that the good submitters are great, and there's quite a few of them |blowkiss| But I know there's some more out there & I wish they'd give the smaller-but-growing LLs a chance

stuff like freehosts, some registrars/hosting companies, private whois and really bad grammar I still decline and ban for too.

I've been doing freesites for about 3 years, and I just can't help feel like we're turning a corner, soon...it feels like change is in the air

oh and Preacher don't feel bad, I've done some pretty bonehead stuff too, of course

[SheepGuy]

I'm hoping the whole index, mainpage, gallery1, gallery2, structure will eventually bite the dust. It's a fairly new thing and it stifles creativity.
Rules about blind links, minimum content, and limited ads per page are reasonable. Nobody wants to piss off the surfer. But the present format of free sites is boring to build, which makes me think we just might be boring the surfer too.
Think about it, a surfer hits an index page with the standard warning they see everywhere, exactly 3 ads and a bunch of sales text. They must know, right from that point, that they are exactly 2 clicks away from the good stuff, so they ho-hum through the intro and grab a free wank.
I'm thinking the smarter surfers just go to the hun and buy nothing there either, it saves them 2 clicks
I'm thinking if you could throw something freaky at them on the index page you might at least get them thinking WTF? Then they might pay more attention to what you're trying to sell, instead of what you're giving away.

The present rigid free site regime stifles that, and I truly miss the wild west days when rules were far less defined. I know I made a fuck of a lot more money then.

[ladydesigner]

Originally Posted by SheepGuy

I'm hoping the whole index, mainpage, gallery1, gallery2, structure will eventually bite the dust. It's a fairly new thing and it stifles creativity.

I totally agree BUT what's the solution to the standard free site index, main page, gallery 1 and gallery 2 structure? I've been thinking about this for a long time and haven't been able to come up with any new ideas. We already have one page TGP's.

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by SheepGuy

It's a fairly new thing and it stifles creativity..

I seem to remember that it has been the "accepted" structure for at least 9 years???? Although there was some flexibility about where the recips were placed and some of us still have that flexability - I dont remember another structure except for feeders, se/dmoz and avs sites

[Greenguy]

I will let trusted submitters slide on some things (but not Preacher when he submits a pic site to my movie only Link List |couch)

I know MML lets some things slide as well, but Murray is a fucking stickler

[ponygirl]

Originally Posted by SheepGuy

I'm hoping the whole index, mainpage, gallery1, gallery2, structure will eventually bite the dust. It's a fairly new thing and it stifles creativity.

Originally Posted by ladydesigner

I totally agree BUT what's the solution to the standard free site index, main page, gallery 1 and gallery 2 structure? I've been thinking about this for a long time and haven't been able to come up with any new ideas. We already have one page TGP's.

Originally Posted by Linkster

I seem to remember that it has been the "accepted" structure for at least 9 years???? Although there was some flexibility about where the recips were placed and some of us still have that flexability - I dont remember another structure except for feeders, se/dmoz and avs sites

I don't mind the structure of the freesite, obviously it still has it's fans and people are familiar with it. I agree that the two entrance pages (index & main) need to have something compelling to them, making the surfer stop and look at it, but instead of fooling with the structure, I think we need to think of different ways to present our stuff on those pages. Everyone keeps saying most of their sales come from those pages, so we must be doing something right

For freesites to change and move forward, I think we need to change the way we think about those pages, and how we present information on them. For me, the structure's fine, it's just what I do with them that I want to experiment with.

Which kinda brings me back to the original point - I see freesite builders getting a little more aggressive with their advertising tactics, which suggests what - frustration? trying to push the limits? I don't know, but I don't want to start seeing it become out of control, because I feel bad about declining good submitters and feeling like I'm being too anal about it. But when I click something and am surprised at where I end up, how is my surfer going to feel?

There are some things I've tried that I wasn't sure would be accepted, but were, so I know there are other ways to get more creative without breaking or pushing the rules

[Licker4U]

If surfers expect to see gallery links on the second page of a free site, what about putting the gallery links on the index page? Maybe they'll scroll past them to get to the enter link and bypass them altogether Anyone tried this?

[stuveltje]

at the linksites i review for i am stricted by the rules, although i am easier with trusted submitters, at my own linksite, i changed my rules huge, i wanna test something, i dont have any rules there anymore, if i like the site i will list it, blind links or whatever, if i think its oke with me i lett them thru, well only at my own linksite then.

[bluebrit]

I only opened up as a LL earlier this year but have submitted sites for much longer than that and even i have noticed a definite shift in designs being submitted since opening. I can be easy going, ( more so with people i know who submit regularly) but there are limits to what i will allow and blind links are not one of them. I do send out emails when i reject sites but like everyone else, when the same submitters keep submitting the same crap after i have sent them two or three emails, they are only a step away from the ban button. I like UW's idea of slapping them with used anal beads. I'd like some of them just to make me smile as i wade through the crap that keeps on floating to the surface. As for a new freesite format, i would welcome a change because a new layout could offer more flexibility but what format to use is the question? There are options and if i get something submitted that's a little unusual but keeps to the basic rules i will allow it because of its originality. Maybe it's time for everyone to get together and design a new layout that will be acceptable across the board. I'm open to suggestions if everyone else would go along