Question from a photographer...

[tortus32]

I'm just curious as to how much adult content vendors pay photographers for new content?

I'm a photographer and I'm thinking of doing some adult work and I'm trying to find out what the pay is like.

Suppose a set of 300 images of just a single girl, posing nude, perhaps a toy.

The reason I'm asking is that I was approached by a site called suicidegirls.com and they only pay $200 per set. It's soft core, no toys or insertions. You have to sign away your rights completely and you can only shoot for them for two years.

Does this sound fishy? I does to me!

Then I was on a modeling board where someone does shoot for them and they claim that all other adult sites pay far less. What? Can that be true?

I'm trying to get some hard numbers to show these people that other adult sites do pay more.

Any input?

Thanks,

Bill

[emmanuelle]

Take the $200 and run. Few people are interested in a 300 pic set, other than to weed out the best 100 of the bunch. Furthermore, $200 is a good deal (for the photographer) for a softcore set.
The business is much different than it was a few years ago, or even 2 years ago. Digital SLR's have broken the $1000 threshold, and everybody fancies themself a photographer these days.

While not disparging your work, (as you know, I truly appreciate your style); technically excellent photos are not required for the net, and rarely recognized.

We have access to technically perfect and more artistic photographers, but prefer to shoot at a slightly less quality in the name of efficiency. For $150-$200 I can shoot a model for 4 hours, and get 20 sets of solo content, including toys plus about 40 minutes of video.

Interestingly enough, our most artistic (and technically proficient) content is the least popular with our members. Webmasters love it, but it's a tough sell.

[tortus32]

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

For $150-$200 I can shoot a model for 4 hours, and get 20 sets of solo content, including toys plus about 40 minutes of video.

Wow, really?

I can't find any model that will work for less than $150 an hour, especially if it's adult stuff - which I haven't really done yet. So far I do mainly non-nude foot fetish work, and even then they want at least $100 an hour, and they set a minimum of 3 hours at that rate.

I just did this set:
http://www.shoekittens.com/free/brooke_dee/
http://www.shoekittens.com/free/brooke_dee2/
http://www.shoekittens.com/free/brooke_dee3/

What I did for that set is I found a client who needed t-shirt models (foulmouthshirts.com) - he paid the models $300 each and I just had them do the foot fetish stuff while they were at my sudio. I've worked for that guy, and with the one models before, so it went rather smoothly, plus besides getting the images, I made $100 for myself as the t-shirt guy paid me a total of $700.

What I really didn't like about suicidegirls.com is that they make you sign something so you can only shoot for them for the next two years.

[emmanuelle]

You are paying hardcore rates for sure. Find yourself local models rather than relying on OMP- those girls are pretty savvy.

I've made it my quest to hire a girl from every restaurant along the busy boulevard nearbye. So far 2 waitresses, a bartender and a McDonald's manager :-) Not one has been paid more than $200 (for 5 hours with toys) and all have been happy. They have a great time, and refer their friends. I've already got the McDonald's girl's younger sister booked for the day after her 18th birthday!

[tortus32]

I've tried that at local places, and it never works out.
Maybe becasue I'm a guy?

They usually run away dialing 911 on their cell phones - lol!

Maybe a local newspaper ad would be better.

Also, if you're paying $200, how much could you expect to sell the images for?

[RawAlex]

Tortus, you are paying "New York" rates in what has become a midwestern business. Unless you are doing insertion or b/g g/g sets, the cost for models is relatively low these days. You may be shooting the wrong girls, ones that are already making $100 an hour standing around in a T-short.

I personally would recommend staying away from suicide girls. There have been some fairly bad stories about them. Further, signing any contract that limits you ability to shoot when and where you want, unless they are paying you major, major dollars is a no-no. They are, IMHO, trying to fuck you over.

Emma, we need to talk... I like McDonalds girls

Alex

[emmanuelle]

We don't sell our images, with 40+ updates/week, we can only keep up with supplying our sites. Once in a while I will shoot something for a friend, like this weekend's tranny shoot. I'm not making a profit off of that, it's more of a backscratching situation. On top of it all, I am not comfortable with handing out the model's id to purchasers. My girls trust me, and I'd hate for someone down the line to be irresponsible.

Probably the easiest solution is to shoot a variety of pics and either use content brokers, or offer a package to webmasters directly. Your girls are usually cute, and there's plenty of people looking for enough material of one girl to put out a single girl site.

You could also team up with an established program or network, and run a co-op deal for a new paysite.

[tortus32]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Tortus, you are paying "New York" rates in what has become a midwestern business. Unless you are doing insertion or b/g g/g sets, the cost for models is relatively low these days. You may be shooting the wrong girls, ones that are already making $100 an hour standing around in a T-short.

I hear ya. I guess I'm just in the wrong location for this business.
I'll have to go back to shooting weddings for 2 grand a pop - lol!

[Cleo]

I wonder how much to shoot the clown?

We are paying 500 to each tranny for an evening of shooting which is usually hardcore and involves both stills and vids. The male models get around 100 or sometimes nothing.

[tortus32]

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

We don't sell our images, with 40+ updates/week, we can only keep up with supplying our sites. Once in a while I will shoot something for a friend, like this weekend's tranny shoot. I'm not making a profit off of that, it's more of a backscratching situation. On top of it all, I am not comfortable with handing out the model's id to purchasers. My girls trust me, and I'd hate for someone down the line to be irresponsible.

Probably the easiest solution is to shoot a variety of pics and either use content brokers, or offer a package to webmasters directly. Your girls are usually cute, and there's plenty of people looking for enough material of one girl to put out a single girl site.

You could also team up with an established program or network, and run a co-op deal for a new paysite.

I guess I'll just have to give up the idea of making money shooting content.
I'll just stick to doing content for my own site, and doing weddings I guess.

Thanks,

Bill

[emmanuelle]

Originally Posted by Cleo

I wonder how much to shoot the clown?

I can sell that

[emmanuelle]

Originally Posted by tortus32

I guess I'll just have to give up the idea of making money shooting content.
I'll just stick to doing content for my own site, and doing weddings I guess.

Thanks,

Bill

Bill, we're not trying to discourage you. Do what makes sense for you. For some people, doing what they love is more important that attaching a high dollar to the product. You can make money selling content, but it's more of a quantity over quality scenario these days.

[RawAlex]

Bill, Emmanuelle is right: This isn't to discourage you, but you have to look at the business in the light of what the consumer (ie: paysite owner or free site builder) is willing to pay for content.

If the girls cost you $150 an hour with a 3 hour minimum, then you need to structure your shooting to obtain the most product in that given time. Have all your setups ready to go, keep things simple, keep your lighting general, perhaps shoot video at the same time (behind the scenes at the photo shoot) and so on. You have to find ways to make your situation make money, either by changing the costs or changing your end product.

If your setup time is too long, or you time per set is too high, there is no way to make the money you need to turn a profit in the game. You might also have to look in other places to find models, more amatuer than pro, in order to keep your bottom line reasonable.

Alex

[juggernaut]

When I was shooting I did use an ad in the new paper. It cost me $70 at the time and I got a bunch of responses but only 1 girl was worth shooting. I would sit back and really crunch your numbers. If a girl is charging $150 per hour, this is how I would get some of them down to maybe $100 if you can. Ask how much experience they have. You'll find alot of them don't have much and are in need of the money. But either way you can still pay the $150 per hour you end up making $50, and if you do like Alex says, IE orginize everything like a tight ship you can get 2 to 3 sets in those hours and thats $100 to $150 in your pocket for 3 to 4 hours of work. When I was doing this it was worse as there was no digital and the cost for production was just crazy. I would not pass up this opertunity, but I would also be very careful. Is that company going to be buying all the time? You need to get stuf in writing and set in stone before you really move forward.

[Cleo]

Originally Posted by tortus32

I'll just stick to doing content for my own site, and doing weddings I guess.

If I ever get married, wow is that a flock of flying pigs outside of my window, that's what I want a photographer that shorts porn and weddings. Should make the family wedding album much more interesting. This is us at the wedding and here we are at our honeymoon fucking…

[RawAlex]

Juggernaught hits on the other important issue: Digital cameras means that more shots don't cost more money. It isn't "hold the button until the memory card is full" but it certainly is shoot pretty much as much as you can.

The web also tolerates more amateur looking sets as well. Don't always go for the glam - just toss a chair, a light, and a girl, and shoot like mad. You can use these intermediate sets to cover the time you are paying for.

You may also find that having a second shooter would help you out. You shoot the glam glam stuff, and they shoot the girls in a secondary area in between bigger shoots. Whatever it takes to turn it into "most content for money spent". The higher end places might not buy the B-roll stuff, but you can jam the leftovers into a $99 download package and sell it 100 times. It all depends on where you are going with this.

Alex

[juggernaut]

Originally Posted by tortus32

What I really didn't like about suicidegirls.com is that they make you sign something so you can only shoot for them for the next two years.

Sorry man did not see that part. NO FUCKING WAY!!! Not unless they are paying you a salary and getting you the models. Who is going to retain the rights of the images and for how long? Look at some of the old content floating around now and its a niche. I bet those shooters never ever thought they would be able to re-sell that stuff 20 years later. Bottom line is you need to protect yourself and YOUR MODELS!!. Fact is this site needs you more then you need them. They like your work, they contacted you. You make a living doing weddings and thats what life is about. Putting food in your mouth an clothes on your back. try and get them to relax on their requirements and then let them know you will talk business. If not then like everything else, something is fucked up and I would walk away..

[tortus32]

Thanks guys.
Yeah, these guys are crazy.
They actually make you sign away all rights to the images they buy from you for $200 - LOL!!

I'm pretty quick and I do have a tight ship for a studio.
In a two hour shoot I can get 450 to 500 shots, and that's with the model changing outfits 3 or 4 times.

I might try and put together some set packages and put them up for sale.

Is there somewhere online where I could upload sets and sell them like that?

[juggernaut]

You can put up a small site showing off some samples of your stuff. I know most of the webmaster boards have a resources section that you can place in. Also I don't know I might be wrong but the amount of images you are talking about seems high for a set. Look around some of the other sites selling content and see how many they are offering. I think the most I have seen is like 180 images and thats with good and bad ones, they are not sorted out so all the images are good usable shots.

[tortus32]

Thanks guys, as usual, great advice by all!

[emmanuelle]

Re: the 2 year comittment. Are you certain that's intended for you? Suicide girls normally has girls submit their own pictures, and it makes more sense for them to sign the girl to exclusivity. I suspect that you might be reading the standard agreement that they give to indie girls.

[emmanuelle]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

You may also find that having a second shooter would help you out. You shoot the glam glam stuff, and they shoot the girls in a secondary area in between bigger shoots.

What we usually do is have one shooter, and one person preparing the next scene and dumping cards. It makes everything run very efficient and helps us to get the maximum value out of our girls.

[tortus32]

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

Re: the 2 year comittment. Are you certain that's intended for you? Suicide girls normally has girls submit their own pictures, and it makes more sense for them to sign the girl to exclusivity. I suspect that you might be reading the standard agreement that they give to indie girls.

Nope.
They were emailing me directly.

[Servhot]

I think it doesn't matter how many pics are in a set what price you can get for it. More important will be they are different and not shot like with a video cam

[tortus32]

Originally Posted by Servhot

More important will be they are different and not shot like with a video cam

LOL!

Do people actually buy that sort of crap?