Have you used an outsourcing company??

[Shannon G]

Tell me your recommendations!

We've got some stuff to outsource, and I'm trying to narrow down who I want to work with. Some have contract periods that might be longer than we need. Others have outrageous "setup" fees.

Who have you worked with who's got a good talent pool, flexible contract periods, and fair rates?

Outsourcing groups can feel free to post since I know you will anyhow, but I'm really looking for personal experiences.

Thanks!!

[Certifiedbitch]

hi Shannon G, been reading some bad feedbacks with different outsourcing companies the past few days on GFY (sorry to mention this board here) just so you know.

[Genbucks: Sean]

A problem I find with outsource companies is that you normally end up with workers who have very poor english so you'll end up spending a good deal of time correcting grammatical errors.

[spazlabz]

well, my experiences with outsourcing companies is mixed. The workers I have had in the past were good, hard working people. But the management of the companies left something to be desired, and I know on more then one occasion the workers would be working for more then one clients stuff at a time. The solution I have is that I hired one guy that I knew and trusted and he has brought more, equally reliable people to us. So now we have a whole crew that works only for us and at a much lower cost then what we would be paying an outsourcing company and the worker gets a much better 'salary' then they would working for a company.
It's true you have to help with some of them on grammar and I have grown to hate the word 'URGE' heh heh but once you get them used to how you want stuff done it is a mutually beneficial arrangement and all parties involved are happy. About the text though..... I tend to want to write as much of the text as possible just because i think i am better at it then they are. having a complete tour designed that looks a lot better then i could do is worth an hour of going through the text and re-writing it for them to copy/paste in

[Greenguy]

I've never used one, but we've banned a few from posting here because of their continuous spamming

[Greenguy]

Forgot to ask - what are you looking to have done? I know there's a lot of posters here on the board that are not technically an "outsourcing company" but they do side projects from time to time

[Useless]

Oddly enough, I worked very, very briefly for an outsourcing company, but they didn't refer to themselves as an outsourcing company, which is actually a pretty smart marketing decision. All I had to do was pick content and create thumbs for the gallery templates that some graphic designer built. I spent much of my time fixing the gallery code so that the thumbs linked to the full size pics. After a few weeks I realized how deeply the owner had his head in his ass and I gave up. It was the only time I've felt sorry for a sponsor. They had know idea how sloppily things were being handled.

I'm a very cheap person, so I can tell you this: cheap and quality are like Michael Jackson and any woman. They are very rarely seen together.

[Jey P]

Hello Greenguy, I run an outsourcing company and we work per-project too.
Just so you don't think I'm spamming or anything I won't use my sig in this thread
Would you let us run a contest on your board ?
I was thinking on giving away some freebies, like gallery designs or a FPA.
What do you think ?

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

I know there's a lot of posters here on the board that are not technically an "outsourcing company" but they do side projects from time to time

I think that is where a lot of the confusion lies. What is the definition of outsourcing? In brick & mortar businesses, outsourcing is when a company hires an outside firm to do something at cheaper rate, when the company already has a department handling such work. Online, if you hire an outsource company to do your graphics, but you don't have an in-house designer anyway, it's not oursourcing. Same with anything. If you don't have someone in your company already doing it, it's not outsourcing. That being said, I'm still not a fan of thosed damned outsourcing companies. You are much better offer hiring individuals who specialize in certain tasks.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Jey P

...Would you let us run a contest on your board ?...

No thanks - we're not big on "contest" threads.

[ForestL]

Hey shannon

Feel free to hit me up to discuss your outsourcing needs

We offer weekly, Bi Monthly and monthly rates for all our employees

I have 3 guys available for immediate hire and all work Great with our clients

118156620
revforest AT hotmail.com

http://www.qualityoutsourcing.com

[facialfreak]

I would recommend Panky from http://www.icando4u.com . She has done a lot of work for me. She's professional, talented, and English is her native language.

[Greenguy]

That's what I love about outsourcing companies - they have no clue what you need form then, but they know they can do it

[Mr. Blue]

Originally Posted by facialfreak

I would recommend Panky from http://www.icando4u.com . She has done a lot of work for me. She's professional, talented, and English is her native language.

Panky's very articulate and has a great understanding of the business. If I had a little more $ I would probably go to her first.

[STEVEN]

I would recommend not outsourcing work to outsourcing companies. Anything that was touched by an outsourced individual and delivered to me has been sub par, and that's being kind. Worthless would be more accurate.

And It is even more frustrating to continue to tell someone what you want, over and over - and realize you have no shot at getting this.

And for the record, I am not talking about your typical programmer/graphics designer/etc - I am pointing the finger right at those who are outsourcing firms.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by STEVEN

And for the record, I am not talking about your typical programmer/graphics designer/etc - I am pointing the finger right at those who are outsourcing firms.

My point as well. If the term outsourcing is in their name, I wouldn't touch the spamming bastards.

Hire dedicated designers and coders for work that you want done right, not jacks of all trades, experts at none.

[CamZ_Dan]

we have been using xxxoutsourcing.com they are pretty good but as with all outsourcing they need a lot of micromanaging

[cd34]

I've used a few outsourcing companies in the last few years. The problem has always been communications related. Either in the work document or even the lack of English being a primary language. I currently have two employees that I have hired, one in Poland, one near me and the issue I still find, no matter what the distance is:

If you cannot see the people face to face, you are adding a communications barrier. Unless you are an excellent technical writer, or can convey exactly what you need, whether you outsource or hire contractors, you will have some communications issues. Language barriers further compound the issue.

However, that's not to be said that there aren't good outsourcing firms out there. One competitor of mine outsources online technical support to an Indian firm and after going through 7 companies, has found one that is rather decent. Another competitor of mine outsources programming, and flies to India once a month to coordinate. They have had rather good luck with that company, but again, they are constantly dealing with issues on a daily basis to keep up. I think they are saving money in the short run. I don't know whether they are outsourcing the maintenance of the application or not.

As for web design, I believe there are facets of this that can be outsourced, IF you can provide enough guidance. Same with programming. If you have tight enough constraints, it can work.

The biggest problem I've seen, and I've been called in to fix a few Project Management fiasco's with outsourcers, is, things progress too far before there is a checkpoint. A misunderstanding or miscommunication that takes place three weeks ago results in a lot of wasted effort.

However, I have yet to see an outsourcing firm that has ever turned down a project regardless of their technical capabilities. If you're going to outsource, check with some other people to see what their experience has been.

Personally, I've not had enough good experiences that the upfront cost savings is worth the effort. And I'm finding that even with my employees, having face to face time is very important to convey ideas and draw pictures (since my web drawing skills suck). I'm extremely lucky that my guy in Poland and I communicate quite well -- that's not to say there haven't been difficulties, but, in the long run, I can tell him what I want and it gets done.

[$5 Submissions]

Hi Shannon,

I own and operate Webmasterlabor.com and we've been offering project-based webmaster data, text, research, traffic generation, and analytics services since November 2003 so I'm quite familiar with your concerns re outsourcing. Here's my thoughts on your situation:

IMHO it all boils down to 1) what services you are looking to outsource 2) what your expectations are 3) what your time resources are and 4) your long term goal.

1) What services are you looking for? There is a broad spectrum of work that can be outsourced. However, as one gets closer and closer to the end of the spectrum that requires cultural sensitivity and connection, the outsourcing process gets trickier. The most common example of this is design work. Outsourcing paysite tours has psychomarketing and culture specific visual cue dimensions that require a lot of familiarity with Western European/American culture/mindset. Hence, this type of work is probably best left to US/EU/CAN/AU designers OR non-western outsource outfits that have Western managers well-versed in this type of marketing OR completely non-western outsource outfits that have a PROVEN track record of producing commercial-grade designs. Lower-rung promotional material work like template galleries, banners, buttons, etc can be easily outsourced offshore since these build on your existing themes/brand or can be standalone disposable campaigns. Bottomline is, the closer you get to bulk promo materials, offshore outsourcing makes more sense. Just make sure to implement a quality assurance program or at least contract with an outfit that will guarantee revisions/fixes for your materials.

2) What are your expectations? Are you looking merely to save money? Or are you looking to have cheap but high quality outsourcing help you expand your business? What is your conception of business expansion? Is it merely through cost savings or does it involve an economy of scale? Let me say this flat out--if cost savings is the ONLY reason a person wants to outsource then ultimately, there may be big problems down the road. At best, outsourcing due to cost just lulls you into complacency about pushing your business higher and forward. The thinking is... "Okay, I've lopped off 80% of my cost so that's 80% more profit" The problem with this is that online markets continously change. Just because you shifted X % of your costs from the liabilities column doesn't mean you automatically pocket that money. You have to continuously reinvest in your business through better marketing, research, and diversification. At worst, outsourcing simply for cost savings tempts webmasters to pick the lowest cost producer who might have quality issues thereby impacting your bottomline. Perhaps, the best way to use outsourcing is to use it as rocket fuel for your business. Use the savings to improve your business through diversification of revenue models, expansion, and research.

3) Your time is money. Make sure you spend it wisely. Most outsourcing, unless you outsource with a company that's staffed with very experienced webmasters who have run websites and marketing campaigns before, involves training. Make sure you have all your specifications and expectations well documented so that the outsourced employees can implement your directives quickly. The clearer you are in your directions, the less training. One thing to keep in mind is that your training time is also your investment in the skills base of the outsourcing company. Make sure you protect your investment by getting as much value from your leased employee as possible OR asking for a nondisclosure/non-use agreement from the outsourcer. You would not want your competitor using your 'secret sauce' in their materials.

4) Your long term goal. Outsourcing is the wave of the future. No amount of hand wringing will dispel that fact. The question becomes... do you want to be in front of the 8 ball or behind the 8 ball on this issue? Learn to manage change and have it work to put more money in your pocket. If executed properly, a well thought-out outsourcing strategy leverages the low cost of outsourcing with the high value of your ideas and strategy to produce a win-win situation. Your long term goal must always be the expansion of your business' reach and bottomline. Use outsourcing as an evolving tool to get you where you wish to go instead of just a 'hot new trend' you want to be part of.

That's my two cents on this issue. Thank you for time.

Gene aka $5 Submissions

[CamZ_Dan]

thats more like 20 cents but Ihave had good hings about you guy

[digifan]

Great post Gene.. an essay but worth reading every line of it. Also I have heard only good things about you on the boards which is not so common these days.

[digifan]

Hey cd I love you too!

[Shannon G]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

I think that is where a lot of the confusion lies. What is the definition of outsourcing? In brick & mortar businesses, outsourcing is when a company hires an outside firm to do something at cheaper rate, when the company already has a department handling such work. Online, if you hire an outsource company to do your graphics, but you don't have an in-house designer anyway, it's not oursourcing. Same with anything. If you don't have someone in your company already doing it, it's not outsourcing. That being said, I'm still not a fan of thosed damned outsourcing companies. You are much better offer hiring individuals who specialize in certain tasks.

That's where the difficulty comes in. It's very hard to hire an independent designer full-time for say 3 months... they need to be "out there" advertising their services to set up work orders for when they are finished with your contract. That is hard on both parties.

Whereas, in basically a temporary staffing arrangement, the designer has the potential for full-time employment even after the contact (whether it be an extended contract or a new client) and the client gets a full-time dedicated designer for as long as their workload commands.

[Certifiedbitch]

maybe you should try those independent designers around who can do the designs for you but on a lower rate.

[Joe]

Due to businesses backed by $5 Submissions, I've been able to make money more efficiently, easily, and quicker.

I can attest to WebmasterLabor's quality work -- If you're looking for someone to outsource almost any job, give them a shot.