Cheating is 1000% more than a year ago? - Page 2

kristian · 2004-07-01, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cleo
That is where you and I are different kristian, I see nothing wrong with working in the porn industry. If I had a child I would have no problem with them working in this industry when they were old enough and this is what they wanted to do. Personally I think being able to set one's own hours and stay at home with family is a very good business to be in.

So let's not hijack this thread because my values are different then yours and just leave it as we have different views of life. I admit that the color of the sky is a bit different color where I live. Most of my friends have children and most of my friends are either same sex couples, trannies, strippers or sex workers so regular family values just don't fit very well.

As far as going to paid submit is is something that I see coming and will just go with the flow after a few of the major lists do.

Fair enough. I understand now.

I'll just say a couple more things.

The sky is the same colour in the UK (although I think I understand what you mean).

I agree about the porn lifestyle. I was lucky enough to retire from my first career by the time I turned 25. Now I'm enjoying carving out a new career in porn. However, I'd be willing to bet your own mother never wanted to see her daughter pimp hookers from a brothel, and go on to peddle internet porn. As I said, you'd need to be a parent to understand this, and how your comments (despite tone) could be construed as offensive.

That's all

Tommy · 2004-07-01, 12:23 PM

I have spoken with a large tgp that is charging

he told me that in a short time it has turned in to his largest source of income

I am working on it and will be charging NEW submiters very shortly

Surfn · 2004-07-01, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alphawolf
With what Tommy stated...

How many of you plan to go with paid submissions?

I only have 2 traffic pumps open to the public. When I get enough trusted submitters those will be private.

Opti · 2004-07-01, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tommy
I have spoken with a large tgp that is charging

he told me that in a short time it has turned in to his largest source of income

I am working on it and will be charging NEW submiters very shortly

Not many linklists have the hits for each new site to justify taking only paid inclusions.

I could see "cartels" of linklists banding together to allow common paid partnership accounts though.

If someone like Tommy sets up their paid inclusion program first, and does it in such a way that all the medium sized linksites could participate and earn revenue via the program.. I could see them tieing up the market nicely right now

Tommy · 2004-07-01, 01:07 PM

it would have to sort of be set up like a avs model

lots of sites selling memberships at a fixed price and getting paid for their memberships that they sold

1 database of passwords that allow submits to all particpating sites

Alphawolf · 2004-07-01, 01:28 PM

A revshare program for LL's? Man.

What % of submissions would stop submitting if you were paid inclusion only?

Would this potentially slow down the amount of NEW sites you list, and your bookmark surfers start to look elsewhere?

As a newbie this sorta sucks for me, but I'd understand why the bigger LL's do it.

And if paid submissions will mean less NEW slots then the entry fee should garner a bit more traffic with fewer listings.

That's a win-win situation...for those who can afford it.

Alphawolf · 2004-07-01, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tommy
it would have to sort of be set up like a avs model

lots of sites selling memberships at a fixed price and getting paid for their memberships that they sold

1 database of passwords that allow submits to all particpating sites

Yeah- I was going to ask about something like that. If multiple lists go at it alone some may get left out of the loop.

If the top traffic lists could get together and streamline all submissions to a single place to get links in multiple LL's that would be very cool.

D-man · 2004-07-01, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Greenguy
I don't think I'm adding 1/3rd of the sites submitted to me - too many scammers or uneducated webmasters. The bad part is that you can't really tell one from the other

I agree - my public submit is a trash bin - I have not allowed any galleries other then partners for going on two years - hardest thing to catch is the ones doing the server side random redirects -
For partner requests one thing I look at is if they submit a gallery is there a real site back at www.whatever.com/index.html - if so then they make it to the next level

caringneo · 2004-07-01, 10:40 PM

I agree that many newbies make mistakes. Some of them do it unintentionally, some do it with purpose. But you can't entirely blame this on newbies.
As some of the fellow webmasters mentioned, it is also an excuse for some guys to make money. IMHO, Charging for a submissions may not be that effective as it sounds(Though it might help to some extend)
Look at the submission pages of some TGPs. They call fellow webmasters "bastards"(Ofcourse very few guys put a small sentence saying, sorry if you are a honest webmaster", that's fine) Atleast it is the bandwidth, content and work of these bastards which greatly conribute to their sites. I agree that there are lot of FHG and Hosted free sites, still it is the regular submitter who makes the difference.
I am not here for an argument. Tomorrow, if I become a big TGP/ LL owner I might also just do what others are doing, because I am also lazy and want to make more money and make my life & work easier.
Neo

PS: All the above are just my humble opinion and didn't mean to hurt anyone or meant for argument. Sorry if I annoyed anyone. I didn't mean it..

Surfn · 2004-07-01, 10:45 PM

Tommy · 2004-07-01, 11:16 PM

caringneo
you go ahead and post whatever you think, dont worry about offending anyone

this is not about newbies that make mistakes, This about spyware, dialers, consoles and viruses

I think it should be a small ONE TIME fee of 10 to 50 dollars for a submit account that allows maybe 4 to 5 submits a day

if you notice I said I wanted to charge new submiters not newbies.
just webmasters who dont have any submit history with me

1) The cheaters wont find it profitable anymore paying 50 bucks for each submit account that gets blacklisted after 2 days

2) your gonna see the name on the creditcard, so they cant keep signing up for new accounts pretending to be someone else

soggy · 2004-07-01, 11:29 PM

I have no problem with pay submits. Hell maybe Tommy would list my free sites then! Just kidding Tommy. This has been a topic for a long long time. I remember a huge thread on adultnetsurprises board. If it keeps the trash out then it is a win win! BTW any word on DD opening up applications for his LL again? I sure do miss his traffic but understand him going that way as well. Keep up the good work everyone!

soggy

caringneo · 2004-07-02, 05:42 AM

Tommy,
I agree with you 100%. Charging a small fee which is affordable to everyone and with the main purpose of keeping the cheats away is fine.
I was only mentioning about those guys who charges 100s of dollars for a submit pass or a gallery spot and put lame excuse like, its due to cheating webmasters we had to charge.
If I can get my galleries and freesites posted at big places for real small prize, I would also be happy to buy a submit pass. (Though what is affordable for a US webmastrs might not be affordable for me unless I make lot of sales....sigh....!)
Thanks fo the reply Tommy

Neo

finnbear · 2004-07-02, 08:01 AM

If you pay for listing you want to see your site/gallery in good position, not in the bottom of the page after hundreds of others. If everyone must pay LL/TGP owners can't give everybody a good position.

Also, many webmasters submit to 100+ LLs/TGPs every day. Even $10 for an account would make it expensive, so small LLs/TGPs will drop and new ones won't come, unless they don't charge for submitting. When/if that happens, only webmasters who already have big porn empire and enough sells pay the price and others use small lists where you can submit for free.

grzepa · 2004-07-02, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cleo
Looking at my admin I would say that it is mostly from the former U.S.S.R. countries.

I think it is due to the mind set of having to work around the system in order to succeed.

I agree , good point its a result of beeing fucked by the systen for years...

Opti · 2004-07-02, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tommy
I think it should be a small ONE TIME fee of 10 to 50 dollars for a submit account that allows maybe 4 to 5 submits a day

if you notice I said I wanted to charge new submiters not newbies.
just webmasters who dont have any submit history with me

1) The cheaters wont find it profitable anymore paying 50 bucks for each submit account that gets blacklisted after 2 days

2) your gonna see the name on the creditcard, so they cant keep signing up for new accounts pretending to be someone else

that sounds good about the one time fee Tommy.. it will achieve the main objective without actually have to charge anyone per submission... Sounds like it could even be a good add-on to the global blacklist system.. but instead of it being a blacklist.. could be a whitelist that linksites use to automatically mark submits as "partner accounts"

You talked about it as a revenue source though.. Would people be able to pay for submits too to generate ongoing income from it?

*edit: If the "service" is free to linklists to use too everyone would use it and make the one time fee seem very reasonable.. (that still doesnt help me as a linksite user of the service to make money from it ongoing though.. a better model would generate ongoing income imho)

doublep · 2004-07-02, 12:13 PM

One of the biggest problems right now is site builders creating multiple accounts - I have been paying extra close attention to accounts that are created here by webmasters over the last few month or so, I have noticed that there are site builders creating several accounts at once in anticipation of the 1st one they use being deleted. So, all accounts that have zero submissions after 7 days are now deleted here.

Who are these webmasters? In my experience mostly from Poland (the biggest offenders are operating from this country) and the former USSR. It got the point that I have even considered banning the whole county from the server, which would be a shame really - why should I deny a whole country from accessing my resource because of a few bad apples. Plus, I do have 1 or 2 Polish submitters here who are honest.

Why are they doing it? This is the tricky question for me - if they were creating multiple accounts, subbing sites, then redirecting after a while, I could understand the reasoning behind their actions. But they don't - some of them sub sites, they get knocked back, some get a reason as to why they were rejected. Do they fix the problem - No. They carry on submitting with the same problems - the account gets deleted, they set up another.... an so on.

Another curious thing I have noticed. Is that some of them actually get it right - then shoot themselves in the feet. They sub a site, it gets listed, they sub more, they get listed. Then for no apparent reason some of them create another account under a different identity, and start subbing acceptable sites with both accounts. I catch them, I get suspicious, I delete them.

Tommy · 2004-07-02, 12:26 PM

doublep, these are free submit accounts ???

doublep · 2004-07-02, 12:32 PM

Hi Tommy - yeah. The fill out the form, they get a validation code to activate the account, then they can start subbing.

dareutwo · 2004-07-02, 09:52 PM

For me a Free site is an Ad -
I can promote a sponsor, I can promote Jays, I can promote Marks. Makes no difference to me, it's simply an ad.
Since it's an ad, how to get the most eyeballs on it?

Paid to get listed on Tommy's? of course.
Paid to get listed on GG's? of course.
Paid to get listed on .... ? of course.

At some point the Idea of the internet being FREE, will end. And I believe it will start in the Adult arena, where every other internet concept has developed.

Do I expect a Top Listing through a Paid listing? NO, if Everyone else has paid too.

I simply think this model will become the norm in the next 12 months.
For those in this as a business (full or part time), those who aren'te won't even be a concern. For the latch key webmasters, those days, and IP numbers may be numbered.

Surfn · 2004-07-02, 10:06 PM

I think paid is a good idea if applied in the right manner. I doubt that I would ever charge on my traffic pumps. I have over 40k in unique pages I've built the last 6-7 years and have enough trusted friends that I can update 8 months a year without repeating.

With advent of sponsor hosted galleries and sites, especially with quality of some of them rising, I could probably operate close to 14 months without a repeat on a couple dozen traffic pumps.

That said I would probably buy a submit pass at a nominal fee to a couple of places to keep my feet wet, or check that my marketing strategy is still effective. Which is pretty much what I'm doing now anyway.

Alphawolf · 2004-07-02, 10:10 PM

I bet if people paid for the right to submit they would put more effort into their free sites.

As someone about to embark on this, I'd really rather the model Tommy mentioned. Basically, paying as an unknown to eventually become a 'trusted' webmaster and be able to submit quality sites for nothing eventually.

If I get 'x' amount of declines I go back into the paid pile for another bit of time as a penelty.

Granted, webmasters outside the US may not have easy means to pay Link Lists and a small fee to US residents may be a chunk of change. However, their sponsors pay in US dollars so that cancels it out a bit.

dareutwo,

I like your observations and agree with you.

Mateusz · 2004-07-03, 07:49 AM

I think other major problem is ignorance. As a newbie I know something about that - since one and a half year I have learned a lot but I still 'pay' for my primary mistakes (backlists at some major LL's and TGP's)
First of all most newbies think they are anonymous and if once they screw something, they will start few hours later with new identity - in fact it's is pure fiction.
Second problem is they don't know some facts about AB... they know the rumors about easy money but most don't know they have to work continually for few months to get these nice letters from sponsors

Next problem is imitation - everyone is looking for pattern to start with but most offen it ends with copying all site design and changing sponsor links
The final problem is that they don't really know what they want to do. It ends with often server changings, file deleting and such things which are found by TGP/LL owners as cheating.

As you can see I'm from Poland.. some of you still got me on your blacklist (I know I deserved it in past - didn't want to cheat anybody but for some reasons I mentioned seconds ago I found myself there..) but I've learned a lot and I finally know what I want to do. I belive all of you have no reasons to say I'm cheater now - of course blacklisting is unavoidable but sometimes we should give others second chance - it's a pity but as old truth says people learn best at their own mistakes

Tommy · 2004-07-03, 05:38 PM

so your saying you were a cheater and now your not ???

I always wondered about the other side
what they were doing, if they noticed the changes, etc etc
I would be intersted in knowing some of your old domains/emails

how you use to cheat and what you made from it

and why you gave it up

your not andi kuhn are you ???

Mateusz · 2004-07-03, 06:12 PM

As I wrote I didn't want to cheat anyone but it could be discovered as I did it on purpouse - here is example..
Some sunny day I made free site (let's say it was free site but these days I wouldn't call it this way :].. never mind...) and it was accepted by few bigger link list like cleo, smut gremlins (this domain still blacklisted there) etc. Got some hits but of course it wasn't enough to get any sale.. Let's say I was dissapointed, probably as all newbie webmasters, becouse this sort of sites didn't bring me tons of easy money (we are talking about 1 or 2 free sites) so I started to think... what shall I do to make my wallet full of green... I decided to make some galleries... as I remember I was shocked with bandwich usage they produced so I decided to use free host.. of course I already forgot about those several free sites and didn't even think of copying them to new server or sending some info to LL owners.. as a 'experienced' webmaster I had 404 redirection to FPA or something like that and LL owners discovered that and banned me quickly - now I know its obvious but that days I didn't realize consequences...
I quess I could post more examples but probably most of you had similar problems at the beggining - the only difference is that most of you started your adventure with adult buisiness when it wasnt so popular ( I mean fresh blood trying it) as these days and than there were no needs and/or possibilities to ban anyone..

2004-07-01, 01:28 PM	#31
Alphawolf Don't come to Florida for vacation. We're closed. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 1,874	A revshare program for LL's? Man. What % of submissions would stop submitting if you were paid inclusion only? Would this potentially slow down the amount of NEW sites you list, and your bookmark surfers start to look elsewhere? As a newbie this sorta sucks for me, but I'd understand why the bigger LL's do it. And if paid submissions will mean less NEW slots then the entry fee should garner a bit more traffic with fewer listings. That's a win-win situation...for those who can afford it. __________________ Regards, AW Weekly Pay. Sites That Convert. Start Pimpin' Today!

2004-07-01, 10:40 PM	#34
caringneo Oh! I haven't changed since high school and suddenly I am uncool Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: PLANET EARTH Posts: 259	I agree that many newbies make mistakes. Some of them do it unintentionally, some do it with purpose. But you can't entirely blame this on newbies. As some of the fellow webmasters mentioned, it is also an excuse for some guys to make money. IMHO, Charging for a submissions may not be that effective as it sounds(Though it might help to some extend) Look at the submission pages of some TGPs. They call fellow webmasters "bastards"(Ofcourse very few guys put a small sentence saying, sorry if you are a honest webmaster", that's fine) Atleast it is the bandwidth, content and work of these bastards which greatly conribute to their sites. I agree that there are lot of FHG and Hosted free sites, still it is the regular submitter who makes the difference. I am not here for an argument. Tomorrow, if I become a big TGP/ LL owner I might also just do what others are doing, because I am also lazy and want to make more money and make my life & work easier. Neo PS: All the above are just my humble opinion and didn't mean to hurt anyone or meant for argument. Sorry if I annoyed anyone. I didn't mean it.. __________________ Anal Gays Last edited by caringneo; 2004-07-01 at 10:52 PM..

2004-07-01, 10:45 PM	#35
Surfn If you don’t take a chance the Angels won’t dance Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Earth on occasion Posts: 8,812	__________________ Surfn's Links Are you a partner?

2004-07-01, 11:16 PM	#36
Tommy NYC Boy That Moved To The Island Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,940	caringneo you go ahead and post whatever you think, dont worry about offending anyone this is not about newbies that make mistakes, This about spyware, dialers, consoles and viruses I think it should be a small ONE TIME fee of 10 to 50 dollars for a submit account that allows maybe 4 to 5 submits a day if you notice I said I wanted to charge new submiters not newbies. just webmasters who dont have any submit history with me 1) The cheaters wont find it profitable anymore paying 50 bucks for each submit account that gets blacklisted after 2 days 2) your gonna see the name on the creditcard, so they cant keep signing up for new accounts pretending to be someone else Last edited by Tommy; 2004-07-01 at 11:19 PM..

2004-07-02, 05:42 AM	#38
caringneo Oh! I haven't changed since high school and suddenly I am uncool Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: PLANET EARTH Posts: 259	Tommy, I agree with you 100%. Charging a small fee which is affordable to everyone and with the main purpose of keeping the cheats away is fine. I was only mentioning about those guys who charges 100s of dollars for a submit pass or a gallery spot and put lame excuse like, its due to cheating webmasters we had to charge. If I can get my galleries and freesites posted at big places for real small prize, I would also be happy to buy a submit pass. (Though what is affordable for a US webmastrs might not be affordable for me unless I make lot of sales....sigh....!) Thanks fo the reply Tommy Neo __________________ Anal Gays

2004-07-01, 12:23 PM	#27
Tommy NYC Boy That Moved To The Island Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,940	I have spoken with a large tgp that is charging he told me that in a short time it has turned in to his largest source of income I am working on it and will be charging NEW submiters very shortly

2004-07-01, 01:07 PM	#30
Tommy NYC Boy That Moved To The Island Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,940	it would have to sort of be set up like a avs model lots of sites selling memberships at a fixed price and getting paid for their memberships that they sold 1 database of passwords that allow submits to all particpating sites

2004-07-01, 11:29 PM	#37
soggy If something goes wrong at the plant, blame the guy who can't speak English Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Florida Panhandle Posts: 304	I have no problem with pay submits. Hell maybe Tommy would list my free sites then! Just kidding Tommy. This has been a topic for a long long time. I remember a huge thread on adultnetsurprises board. If it keeps the trash out then it is a win win! BTW any word on DD opening up applications for his LL again? I sure do miss his traffic but understand him going that way as well. Keep up the good work everyone! soggy

2004-07-02, 08:01 AM	#39
finnbear You can now put whatever you want in this space :) Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Finland Posts: 534	If you pay for listing you want to see your site/gallery in good position, not in the bottom of the page after hundreds of others. If everyone must pay LL/TGP owners can't give everybody a good position. Also, many webmasters submit to 100+ LLs/TGPs every day. Even $10 for an account would make it expensive, so small LLs/TGPs will drop and new ones won't come, unless they don't charge for submitting. When/if that happens, only webmasters who already have big porn empire and enough sells pay the price and others use small lists where you can submit for free. __________________ My free porn sites

2004-07-02, 12:13 PM	#42
doublep If something goes wrong at the plant, blame the guy who can't speak English Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Europe Posts: 306	One of the biggest problems right now is site builders creating multiple accounts - I have been paying extra close attention to accounts that are created here by webmasters over the last few month or so, I have noticed that there are site builders creating several accounts at once in anticipation of the 1st one they use being deleted. So, all accounts that have zero submissions after 7 days are now deleted here. Who are these webmasters? In my experience mostly from Poland (the biggest offenders are operating from this country) and the former USSR. It got the point that I have even considered banning the whole county from the server, which would be a shame really - why should I deny a whole country from accessing my resource because of a few bad apples. Plus, I do have 1 or 2 Polish submitters here who are honest. Why are they doing it? This is the tricky question for me - if they were creating multiple accounts, subbing sites, then redirecting after a while, I could understand the reasoning behind their actions. But they don't - some of them sub sites, they get knocked back, some get a reason as to why they were rejected. Do they fix the problem - No. They carry on submitting with the same problems - the account gets deleted, they set up another.... an so on. Another curious thing I have noticed. Is that some of them actually get it right - then shoot themselves in the feet. They sub a site, it gets listed, they sub more, they get listed. Then for no apparent reason some of them create another account under a different identity, and start subbing acceptable sites with both accounts. I catch them, I get suspicious, I delete them.

2004-07-02, 12:26 PM	#43
Tommy NYC Boy That Moved To The Island Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,940	doublep, these are free submit accounts ???

2004-07-02, 12:32 PM	#44
doublep If something goes wrong at the plant, blame the guy who can't speak English Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Europe Posts: 306	Hi Tommy - yeah. The fill out the form, they get a validation code to activate the account, then they can start subbing.

2004-07-02, 09:52 PM	#45
dareutwo You can't disprove anything with evidence that doesn't exist Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NW Minnesota - pop 865 +/- 1 Posts: 2,038	For me a Free site is an Ad - I can promote a sponsor, I can promote Jays, I can promote Marks. Makes no difference to me, it's simply an ad. Since it's an ad, how to get the most eyeballs on it? Paid to get listed on Tommy's? of course. Paid to get listed on GG's? of course. Paid to get listed on .... ? of course. At some point the Idea of the internet being FREE, will end. And I believe it will start in the Adult arena, where every other internet concept has developed. Do I expect a Top Listing through a Paid listing? NO, if Everyone else has paid too. I simply think this model will become the norm in the next 12 months. For those in this as a business (full or part time), those who aren'te won't even be a concern. For the latch key webmasters, those days, and IP numbers may be numbered. __________________ This is me Mark's-Links

2004-07-02, 10:06 PM	#46
Surfn If you don’t take a chance the Angels won’t dance Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Earth on occasion Posts: 8,812	I think paid is a good idea if applied in the right manner. I doubt that I would ever charge on my traffic pumps. I have over 40k in unique pages I've built the last 6-7 years and have enough trusted friends that I can update 8 months a year without repeating. With advent of sponsor hosted galleries and sites, especially with quality of some of them rising, I could probably operate close to 14 months without a repeat on a couple dozen traffic pumps. That said I would probably buy a submit pass at a nominal fee to a couple of places to keep my feet wet, or check that my marketing strategy is still effective. Which is pretty much what I'm doing now anyway. __________________ Surfn's Links Are you a partner?

2004-07-02, 10:10 PM	#47
Alphawolf Don't come to Florida for vacation. We're closed. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 1,874	I bet if people paid for the right to submit they would put more effort into their free sites. As someone about to embark on this, I'd really rather the model Tommy mentioned. Basically, paying as an unknown to eventually become a 'trusted' webmaster and be able to submit quality sites for nothing eventually. If I get 'x' amount of declines I go back into the paid pile for another bit of time as a penelty. Granted, webmasters outside the US may not have easy means to pay Link Lists and a small fee to US residents may be a chunk of change. However, their sponsors pay in US dollars so that cancels it out a bit. dareutwo, I like your observations and agree with you. __________________ Regards, AW Weekly Pay. Sites That Convert. Start Pimpin' Today! Last edited by Alphawolf; 2004-07-02 at 10:17 PM..

2004-07-03, 07:49 AM	#48
Mateusz Screw you, guys. I'm going home. Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Gliwice, Poland Posts: 996	I think other major problem is ignorance. As a newbie I know something about that - since one and a half year I have learned a lot but I still 'pay' for my primary mistakes (backlists at some major LL's and TGP's) First of all most newbies think they are anonymous and if once they screw something, they will start few hours later with new identity - in fact it's is pure fiction. Second problem is they don't know some facts about AB... they know the rumors about easy money but most don't know they have to work continually for few months to get these nice letters from sponsors Next problem is imitation - everyone is looking for pattern to start with but most offen it ends with copying all site design and changing sponsor links The final problem is that they don't really know what they want to do. It ends with often server changings, file deleting and such things which are found by TGP/LL owners as cheating. As you can see I'm from Poland.. some of you still got me on your blacklist (I know I deserved it in past - didn't want to cheat anybody but for some reasons I mentioned seconds ago I found myself there..) but I've learned a lot and I finally know what I want to do. I belive all of you have no reasons to say I'm cheater now - of course blacklisting is unavoidable but sometimes we should give others second chance - it's a pity but as old truth says people learn best at their own mistakes Last edited by Mateusz; 2004-07-03 at 07:52 AM..

2004-07-03, 05:38 PM	#49
Tommy NYC Boy That Moved To The Island Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,940	so your saying you were a cheater and now your not ??? I always wondered about the other side what they were doing, if they noticed the changes, etc etc I would be intersted in knowing some of your old domains/emails how you use to cheat and what you made from it and why you gave it up your not andi kuhn are you ???

2004-07-03, 06:12 PM	#50
Mateusz Screw you, guys. I'm going home. Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Gliwice, Poland Posts: 996	As I wrote I didn't want to cheat anyone but it could be discovered as I did it on purpouse - here is example.. Some sunny day I made free site (let's say it was free site but these days I wouldn't call it this way :].. never mind...) and it was accepted by few bigger link list like cleo, smut gremlins (this domain still blacklisted there) etc. Got some hits but of course it wasn't enough to get any sale.. Let's say I was dissapointed, probably as all newbie webmasters, becouse this sort of sites didn't bring me tons of easy money (we are talking about 1 or 2 free sites) so I started to think... what shall I do to make my wallet full of green... I decided to make some galleries... as I remember I was shocked with bandwich usage they produced so I decided to use free host.. of course I already forgot about those several free sites and didn't even think of copying them to new server or sending some info to LL owners.. as a 'experienced' webmaster I had 404 redirection to FPA or something like that and LL owners discovered that and banned me quickly - now I know its obvious but that days I didn't realize consequences... I quess I could post more examples but probably most of you had similar problems at the beggining - the only difference is that most of you started your adventure with adult buisiness when it wasnt so popular ( I mean fresh blood trying it) as these days and than there were no needs and/or possibilities to ban anyone..