Bill, I own 3 LL myself, and review daily. If for some reason I will be away from the PC for a few days, I put a notice on the submit page, but usually catch up on all submits within a weeks time. Links are in my sig.

I also am doing the reviews for Licker4U's LL while he is in Afghanistan. I run those like I do my own sites.

Best Wet Pussy http://www.best-wet-pussy.com

Girls That Squirt http://www.girls-that-squirt.com

Hairy Pussy Links http://www.hairy-pussy-links.com

Want to hear something semi humorous? I lost almost all of the submitters at my largest link list when I stopped reviewing and re-scripted it to list their links automatically upon submission. I'm told that the 3-4 remaining semi-regular submitters don't mind the lack of competition. (I don't have any daily submitters.) There are days when the casual observer viewing the index might wonder who owns the site, Simon or Red Cherry. :)

As much as having more submitters might be beneficial from a fresh content standpoint, it's also a pain the ass, especially if one is as anal as I am, which is why I don't go whoring for more. I really like knowing that I don't have to check the site because the current few active submitters never do anything that annoys me. OK, there's one guy whose English isn't the best, so his titles sometimes make me cringe, but I can live with that.

It's actually quite difficult to design a link list that is mutually beneficial to both the owner and the submitter. On one hand, you want to get traffic to the listings so that you can please the submitter and create loyalty. One the other hand, if the surfers aren't pausing on your ads, owning the link list is a waste of time. I keep an eye on where my revenue is coming from, so I know that I earn more from banners than I do listing FHGs. I also know that I hardly ever see a sale created by the uppermost banner spot on my index, no matter which sponsor or banner I use. I'll probably end up removing it again, which will bring the listings up another 300 pixels. But then I'll feel foolish for not using that space!

A lot of link list owners need to heed Simon's advice about generating traffic. We're beyond a decade past the build it and they will come era of internet porn, yet many owners still sit around hoping for traffic to increase by pure will power. Good luck with that.

I'd be happy to see some level of evolution in the free site/link list wing of this industry, but I doubt it will occur. Though the status quo is forcing everyone out of business, the forces of change are weak.

good thread. i think i get a lot of value just by being listed on a list that has been around for awhile...high traffic or not, its a good linktrade. which is my main desire is good se ranking. i always considered the linklist traffic to be feeder traffic to get my freesite off the ground, so to speak. but maybe im wrong who knows. thats just the way i always looked at it. so good old linklist that actually gets the site updated is ok in my book, i never expect too many hits. obviously we need traffic flow for the system to work but....

as for the revolution of freesite/linklist biz model!!! i like it, whats the plan?
although, i also think that nobody works as hard at it as we used to. whenever i put a good amount of solid focus onto freesites they seem to still do very well.

-abatis

Huh. That's definitely a curious effect.

http://www.filthyearl.com/ , right? I just checked it out, got a nice look. And the submit system works well. What link list software is that?

I don't think I said anything about it, but I thought that was a real interesting experiment. Now that I look closer I think it's even more interesting.

I only submit my blogs to 3 ll's now. Rest either send nothing, or the rules don't suit me. A LL needs to build a case for why it deserves my submission, because in the long run I will probably be sending them more traffic than they send me.

No. http://www.pervespace.com/ Earl was a defunct link list that I re-opened as an automatic list instead of having it sit there doing nothing. I'm still waiting to see if the traffic will build as a non-recip list. As you'll see on both sites, I'm currently experimenting with popunders. So far, the popunders have proven to be worthless at creating sales, and I'll probably use them strictly as a means of traffic trading between my own sites after I'm thoroughly convinced of their relative worthlessness.

The script is a custom mish-mosh.

Ahhh I see.

Just tried to sign in for a subbing account at pervespace, it wasn't intuitive as to how to do that. How does one sign up?

Clicking the webmaster link takes me to a login page with no extra info.

I searched back thru your recent posts, the first I came across was the thread about filthy earl, and it had a auto-submission system, so I concluded mistakenly lol.

I saw pervespace come up in the popunder, you know, I didn't immediately recognize it as a linklist, thought it was a kind of paysite, untill I saw that scrolling list of links.

---

A custom mishmosh eh? Howd you manage that?

You selling copies?

A search for linklistpro takes one to an aggregator page.

Huh, also curious.

I was watching the trend of subbing blogs to about 3 dozen lists and directories. I hadn't started to do that with my blogs, and was a bit surprized when someone in another community declined to link with me because I didn't do that, altho my blog was way older and had more posts and more real posts.

I kinda thought everyone was just subbing the hell out of blogs these days, with what I thought was a possibly dubious sense of its search engine value.

Well, I figure we start out with an increased partnership between a certain clan of builders and a group of middle-to-middle-lower level linklists.

The middle-to-middle-lower has a bit more freedom to experiment than the big linklists - wether we like it or not, we're all to some degree dependent on their (the big guys) specific positions and structures, so we A. dont want to fuck with them in a way that might cause traffic losses, and B. have to be aware that if they experiment we pretty much have to follow along, and if they don't, we also have to follow along.

So, we talk up partnership and see who salutes.

---

Then I figure we have to experiment. The current "blog" stuff is an example of the type of experiment. We have to figure out some ways to mix up the linking patterns, because predictable repeated linking patterns have been a part of the downfall.

I figure we start by making and linking things that look and act differently than the "freesite".

If we can figure out how to do it in a way that doesn't suck.

I'd be happy to list your sites :)

Declined to link with you because you didn't submit your blogs to LL's or did I misunderstand you?

I am often surprised by people who don't want to link with a blog, because they get a nice juicy front page link on a TLD, and if using wordpress 90% of the SEO is already done for you.. so its a good solid site. They are the types of links i would be chasing if it were me :)

Exactly. They said I wouldn't have any traffic cuz i didn't have the same 30+ links to lists they had. And suggested I sub this 5 year old blog to have traffic worth linking too, and then they might link. Nice keyword matching in the names too. Such is life.

To be fair to them, it's not like it was a blog with big traffic. I suck at blogging.

Sounds like you had a lucky escape Bill. Pointless subbing a blog with a nice root link to a bunch of directories where you get buried on domain.com/category/page1234567.html, no matter how much the initial burst of traffic.

Complete waste of time submitting to blog directories - think about it if you eventually get a 100 posts on your blog and thats not difficult - the directories end up with a 100 backlinks and all you gets is a crappy listing and and poor traffic.

You get better traffic to a blog if you submit it to some of the bigger LL and Tommys and Shemp both accept blogs now as well.

Regarding the issue of more LL folding , Is that such a bad thing? My take is that the less LL competing for surfers will result in more traffic from the bigger LLs.

Another reason why a lot of smaller LL are closing is that the owners are just assholes - nothing pisses me off more than getting a rejection e-mail from a minnow because my recip is for the wrong category. This instantly gets that LL assigned to the shitlist for 2 reasons ,

a) - because the wm is an asshole for being so picky
b) - because the wm is dumb fucktard , if you really believe that category recip linking is still beneficial to your LL , then you just don't have a clue about SEO in 2010 and its doubtful that you can send any traffic.

So I think its a good thing that some of the smaller LL are being removed from the scene. I checked my stats to one of my sponsors and noticed that hits from LL are more than hits from TGPs - and I don't submit as regularly as I should. Based on those numbers I still think its worth it to submit to LL.

On the topic of LL's and lols. I got a rejection email the other day of a Free Site I submitted back in 2008, nice of him to let me know. :)

-N

I still have an active LL, although I'm a little behind on reviews right now for personal reasons. I try to keep up to date and have a group of good regular submitters. Don't know how much traffic is sent, probably not much, but it's still live if that's the main criteria :)

good point...

fwiw, In the 2 or 3 years I've been subbing, I haven't seen any small list become a big one. It seems to me we are destined to have 3 or 4 big list and a bunch of small/mid sized ones. In an environment where things change weekly, even daily, I am surprised the status quo is still firmly intact in the world of link list.

Just a question on submitting. I am trying to clean up the look of my index pages by using just a one line text recip. Not the usual 2 line (LLs main index and the a Cat. link.) Do you all feel that a good thing or bad thing?

Damn Just saw my post count "666"

I switched my LL to single line one url recips sometime ago.

I think the old recips look so nineties now. :D

Thats what I was thinking. And it makes the page look very clean.

When i get some time I am going to clean up all my recips , just a single link and any LL that don't accept it I will cut from my submit - All the guys that send me good traffic from LL accept it anyway , except for PB and they send me less traffic than the others anyway.

I reckon its a good move

I switched a year ago to single text link for my LL as well and I don't care if there is 6 recips or 30. Looks far cleaner with 30 single line recips then it does with 15 double link recips.

Being a middle to low list I don't mind experimentation from quality submitters.

If anyone is on Greenguy's trusted list let me know and I can give ya my partner submit page which allows just about anything. Submit picpost, gallery, blog, avs, freesite or ?? As long as there is content and it's easy to find then its usually good to go.

I'd like to think that my clitpass.com is somewhere in middle to low list too. I just checked listed links for last 7 days and some got more than 10 hits, but some got 1, 2 or 0.
It's a PARTNER LL and sites are listed without reviewing but I check them once in a while.
Bill you are welcome at my place anytime. Apply for account link is on webmaster page. Rules are pretty much the same as everywhere else, I'm not picky as long as the submitters are fair.
As to generating traffic, I myself try to build free sites and galleries to, but lately I come from work to late to be able to build something.

yeah am at least one month behind. To much other stuff going on the last couple months, GF troubles, moving, university studies, work, it goes on and on.
In return for waiting in subque for 2 months sites are listed as new for at least 4 months if not longer.
....I don't mostly list my own, I list my trusted submitters + a couple of fhs.

I review on a semi-regular basis. I will get a couple weeks behind on occasion, but I do eventually catch up.

Traffic isn't all that high, but has been growing month after month.