Found domain name in blacklist :(

[Yahook]

Thanks for you answeret RawAlex, but you didn't answered my question about closing your submit page like DangerDave? It will help you better then you do now.

[RawAlex]

I feel that I cannot find good submitters with a closed submit page. I have made changes within my system (including using fiarly aggressive blacklist / IP block setup) that gets me some really good new submitters, that quickly become regular submitters.

I am considering moving to a prefered submitter situation, where a number of people would have priority access over the masses, and the number of submits from the masses would be only to fill in what the prefered people don't do. However, that isn't in the cards YET.

Alex

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Yahook

As for rape - there is difference between bsdm and rape - if you don't work in this niche you don't understand it. Rape is illegal, bdms is not.

Okay... well, I work in the bdsm niche just a little. So I do understand that part.

Yahook, I quoted your post but the rest of this isn't really directed at you specifically. It's for anyone who doesn't see that this is a very simple thing here.

What I don't understand here is that:

(i) some people seem to be warning others that if they use the wrong hosting they won't be listed on some links lists; and
(ii) other people seem to be trying to talk about whether banning hosting companies is a good idea, and if there's some way to provide a list of all the banned hosting companies.

Okay, I get the first group, they're sparing a few valuable minutes to spread the word that you need to be very careful these days about what neighborhood your sites are in. So if someone accidentally got in with the wrong crowd they can move instead of being punished like the rest who choose to live there.

But the second part of the discussion just baffles me. It's not anyone else's problem that some hosting companies allow spammers, scammers, bot operators, illegal content, and all sorts of other problems on their servers. There are too many good hosting companies to worry about posting lists of the bad ones.

All someone needs to do, if they want to be listed by the bigger/better link lists, is two things:

1. Get hosted by a reputable hosting company that's known for taking a hard line against that crap.

2. Most important... don't actually be a spammer, scammer, or other kind of cheating fuck.

Seriously, all the talk about improving the system is off the track. If it would be of benefit to link list owners to do it they would do it. It's not to their benefit to rearrange things the other way. Plus, it would benefit the scumbags who try to abuse the system, so it's not likely to get changed.

To any webmasters here who just want to get listed, and who aren't cheaters already, just move to reputable hosting and forget about this problem.

Simon

(didn't we cover all this in yesterday's OTB?)

[Scooter]

so noone whanna show that list of banned hosting companies? or this is top secret information? lol

[Surfn]

Only cheaters want to know that list.

[RawAlex]

Actually, let me correct Surfn here: Cheaters and honest people both want to know. Cheaters will profit from that information much more than honest people would.

Again, it comes to numbers: If I can get rid of 100 cheaters and as a result also decline 1 honest webmasters, I cannot and will not change policies for that 1 person in order to create 100 more problems for myself.

I also will not provide information that will allow those 100 cheaters to circumvent policies put in place to stop them from fucking my surfers over and wasting my time.

I will also say this: The list of "banned hosts" is fluid. If I said "goodhost.com" is not banned, and that I will list everyone there, then all the cheaters will move over there tomorrow and I will be fucked again.

If I get fucked too often, then I will have to charge to review sites, because the time required to handle it would be too high.

Alex

[sundiver]

Originally Posted by Simon

Okay... well, I work in the bdsm niche just a little. So I do understand that part.

Yahook, I quoted your post but the rest of this isn't really directed at you specifically. It's for anyone who doesn't see that this is a very simple thing here.

What I don't understand here is that:

(i) some people seem to be warning others that if they use the wrong hosting they won't be listed on some links lists; and
(ii) other people seem to be trying to talk about whether banning hosting companies is a good idea, and if there's some way to provide a list of all the banned hosting companies.

Okay, I get the first group, they're sparing a few valuable minutes to spread the word that you need to be very careful these days about what neighborhood your sites are in. So if someone accidentally got in with the wrong crowd they can move instead of being punished like the rest who choose to live there.

But the second part of the discussion just baffles me. It's not anyone else's problem that some hosting companies allow spammers, scammers, bot operators, illegal content, and all sorts of other problems on their servers. There are too many good hosting companies to worry about posting lists of the bad ones.

All someone needs to do, if they want to be listed by the bigger/better link lists, is two things:

1. Get hosted by a reputable hosting company that's known for taking a hard line against that crap.

2. Most important... don't actually be a spammer, scammer, or other kind of cheating fuck.

Seriously, all the talk about improving the system is off the track. If it would be of benefit to link list owners to do it they would do it. It's not to their benefit to rearrange things the other way. Plus, it would benefit the scumbags who try to abuse the system, so it's not likely to get changed.

To any webmasters here who just want to get listed, and who aren't cheaters already, just move to reputable hosting and forget about this problem.

Simon

(didn't we cover all this in yesterday's OTB?)

thanks for detailed reply. =)

just wanna add a few things to previous posts made by Yahook, Scooter and me.

1) nobody clearly stated what are you fighting against. I do understand your position when you talk about cp or other illegal shit. yes. hosting company must prevent such kind of activity. but when you're are talking about cheaters who redirect traffic from freesites in example, I do not understand, how can hosting company prevent this. they do not do anything illegal, right? the reason why I'd want to clear this up is that I know some hosting companies which are banned, but they never hosted any illegal stuff. so we are coming to a conclusion: poster should be hosted with wellknown company like isprime, webair or something like that. I believe this is stupid. if I know some good and honest hosting provider, whose pricing policy is more attractive for me than isprime's one I think I can use it. you think I can't, because you don't know this hosting provider (you don't know who are this guys so they are possible cheaters. that's a normal psychological reaction). that's what is usually called 'conflict of interests'. everybody should make his or her own choice - would they rather host their sites with hosting company they like or submit this sites to link lists which do not like this hosting company. business is always finding a compromise. but. business has at least two sides. in our situation those sides are posters and owners. the only reason for this discussion is that some link list owners play unfair. you want poster to everything while you do nothing. at least you could send a one-time banning notification. cheaters won't read it, for a honest poster it can be useful. you want us to respect your work, and we do so. the only thing we want from you is to show some respect to our work. that's first.

2) I believe banning for own nameservers is stupid. 'bogus whois hosting'. lol. do not give access to the shared blacklist to those idiots who do not know what is dedicated server. it wouldn't be a problem, but it is, because some owners just ignore appeals.

3) all the hosts mentioned in this topic are Russian hosting providers. in fact almost all Russian hosting providers are banned. (I mean Russian hosting providers who allow adult material) that makes link list posting for Russian newbie* webmasters really hard and even impossible**. I know that's not your problem I'm just trying to explain why we are worrying about this so much***.


__________________
* most experienced Russian webmasters have epassporte account or credit card, so they are able to get a hosting by foreign company. but actually even for an experienced webmaster this is really incovinient due to different reasons. once again I want to point out, that not all of the banned Russian hosting providers host any kind of cheaters or illegal stuff. some of them are banned just because they are not 'known and reputated' for american webmasters.
** only when talking about link lists which ban hosting providers.
*** especially for Surfn. non of the webmasters posted in this topic are newbies.

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by Surfn

Only cheaters want to know that list.

hahaha only cheaters can hide there real rules lol

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by Scooter

hahaha only cheaters can hide there real rules lol

Findpics rule (currently #22):

" We reserve the right to refuse listings and service to anyone. This is a private website. You can be declined, refused or have your listing removed for any reason. We reserve the right to blacklist domains, email addresses, hosts, and IP addresses without notice, and without notification. If you submit multiple sites that violate the rules, you domain(s) will be blacklisted without notice. We do NOT send decline messages. If your don't like it, get a lawyer and waste your money. :-)"

Sundiver: It isn't about getting the hosts to not list cheaters. If you think that is our logic, then you really did miss the point.

Alex

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Findpics rule (currently #22):

" We reserve the right to refuse listings and service to anyone. This is a private website. You can be declined, refused or have your listing removed for any reason. We reserve the right to blacklist domains, email addresses, hosts, and IP addresses without notice, and without notification. If you submit multiple sites that violate the rules, you domain(s) will be blacklisted without notice. We do NOT send decline messages. If your don't like it, get a lawyer and waste your money. :-)"

Sundiver: It isn't about getting the hosts to not list cheaters. If you think that is our logic, then you really did miss the point.

Alex

Poster rule #1
I can reserve the right to delete you from my submit base. i reserve the right to delete any recip that stays on my free sites if you don't list my sites. i reserve the right just say: "go to the hell if you're stupid webmaster!"

[Surfn]

Originally Posted by Scooter

Poster rule #1
I can reserve the right to delete you from my submit base. i reserve the right to delete any recip that stays on my free sites if you don't list my sites. i reserve the right just say: "go to the hell if you're stupid webmaster!"

You are now on my banned list. I hope that's what you wanted. There is no appeal for you. Have a nice day

[RawAlex]

Scooter, would you like a shovel? You can dig a hole for yourself faster than just using your hands.

I wouldn't expect anyone to keep a recip up on a site that wasn't listed. I wouldn't expect anyone who is blacklisted to continue to submit to me (but many stupid people with automation tools do anyway).

YOU ARE THREATENING TO DO EXACTLY WHAT I WANT YOU TO DO.

So that isn't a threat, is it? I hope more that it is a promise.

Alex

[sundiver]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Sundiver: It isn't about getting the hosts to not list cheaters. If you think that is our logic, then you really did miss the point.

Alex

you either didn't bother to read the whole post or didn't understand what I'm talking about.

Originally Posted by sundiver

... you want poster to everything while you do nothing. at least you could send a one-time banning notification. cheaters won't read it, for a honest poster it can be useful. you want us to respect your work, and we do so. the only thing we want from you is to show some respect to our work. that' first.

[sundiver]

and once again: when you ban somebody it's your own choice and your right. this dicussion is caused by adding to the shared blacklist. (bl.usefulscripts.com)

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by Surfn

You are now on my banned list. I hope that's what you wanted. There is no appeal for you. Have a nice day

don't forget about this dude
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/?u...dultlinks.com/
compare it with for example with this:
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/?u...-sex-links.com
and also i think you know that PB WP adult-list.com also own russian "cheaters" lol they cheat google hahah

[Surfn]

Originally Posted by Scooter

don't forget about this dude
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/?u...dultlinks.com/
compare it with for example with this:
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/?u...-sex-links.com
and also i think you know that PB WP adult-list.com also own russian "cheaters" lol they cheat google hahah

The ban is in effect on all my sites. I see that you were getting listed on one of them. Have a nice life

[natalie]

We need to be able to add pics to posts

Cos the "Digging Your Own Hole Award" has to go to Scooter and Sundiver!

[Mr. Blue]

You have to play within the rules that the owners and operators of LL/TGP's set forth. If they blacklist a host, you can either change hosts or not submit. It's really just that simple...it's their pages, their traffic, their rules, and if you don't like it, don't submit.

Complaining will get you nowhere...there's good reasons for blacklisting certain hosts, etc. I've had to do that on my TGP, because of the sheer quantity of cheaters coming from one host. Do innocent people get blacklisted, yep, but that's not my problem.

The question I have to ask though is, why are these people so married to their hosts? I've changed my host a bunch of times...mainly because of upgrades, etc, but it's not a biggie to change. Or, just pay for a second hosting account. LL's don't burn that much bandwidth, even a cheapy account at a place like dreamhost could cover your needs and you could use that to submit.

Honestly, you either want to play by the rules or you don't...this isn't rocket science and complaining will get you nowhere, well, it might get you on a few more blacklists

[Yahook]

If you have 100+ domains it's not too easy even to change NS servers... Sure you can use two hostings at the same time, one for posting and one for your other projects. But why to spemt more time and to pay more, if you can use one hosting you like most of all?

[Yahook]

The problem is also with shared blacklist. One ll owner decided to ban hosting company and added it to shared blacklist. Another linklist owners just use it.

[RawAlex]

Yahook, if you have a great host that nobody will list, is it truly a great host?

Due to certain "features" and "options" offered by some hosts, they attract cheaters (as well as honest webmasters) who take advantage of those tools in an attempt to get more than their fair share of listings, to get listings and redirect traffic, or to sell their traffic to toolbar companies. I often thing it is in fact the toolbar guys directly trying to fuck people over.

When you choose that host, you get the "features", but you also get the baggage. A host that limits your chances to get listed isn't exactly doing you any favors.

Sundiver: I read your post VERY carefully. Why would we want to notify anyone of banned hosts? The cheaters would run like cockroaches to the next host, and we would have to start the whole process all over again. You don't think that the host themselves isn't aware of the situation? In many cases the hosts have modified thier services specifically to disguise or obscure who they are just to help their clients screw us over. I won't post them, but there are chatboards where people spend their entire lives trying to come up with ways of fucking over link sites and TGPs.

Why the heck do you think everyone is going to partner accounts and paid submits?

Sending you a notification or saying "your host is banned" is just starting a huge game of whack-a-mole, and nobody wants to do that.

The shared blacklist (which I don't use, BTW) is just a tool like any others. I think most host bans are done on an individual level, and not as a group thing.

Alex

[Yahook]

Sundiver: I read your post VERY carefully. Why would we want to notify anyone of banned hosts? The cheaters would run like cockroaches to the next host, and we would have to start the whole process all over again. You don't think that the host themselves isn't aware of the situation? In many cases the hosts have modified thier services specifically to disguise or obscure who they are just to help their clients screw us over. I won't post them, but there are chatboards where people spend their entire lives trying to come up with ways of fucking over link sites and TGPs.

This is not for me but I will answer I understand your position. But some linklist owners even don't understand why banned hostings are in the shared blacklist - they think that this hostings host something illegal, but they already use this shared blacklist. But we are talking about simple linklist cheating, right? So every host can be in this blacklist.

The shared blacklist (which I don't use, BTW) is just a tool like any others. I think most host bans are done on an individual level, and not as a group thing.

Unfortunately some guys do that, sometimes they are small linklist. They ban hosting and add to shared blacklist. The other guys use it. Some guys can even delete listed sites from this host to be sure there are no cheaters listed. Then the poster needs to change hosting because he don't know who banned him.

As for closing submit form. I think it's not too difficult to do that if you have some traffic on your linklist and big webmaster database and if it's not too difficult to get an account. Good guys who use banned hosting will contact you with the examples of their sites, and you will get lots of new posters. And this system will be rather more profitable for me too.

[Yahook]

Lots of linklist owners who ban hostings will not write in this thread - I think they are afraid of attention of good webmasters to their linklists. Sure it's more profitable do not write at all.

And I respect very much the linklist owners who write in this thread and say the truth.

[Yahook]

Cos the "Digging Your Own Hole Award" has to go to Scooter and Sundiver!

Natalie, I know Scooter, he is linklist owner too and his linklist is better than a linklist of Surfn for SE traffic for example.

[Mr. Blue]

Originally Posted by Yahook

But why to spemt more time and to pay more, if you can use one hosting you like most of all?

Because you'll get listed

You have a choices you can make...here they are:

1. Stay with your host and just don't submit to LL's that have it banned.

2. Get a new host and move your pages.

3. Get a second host - use that to submit to LL's that have the first host banned.

Those are your options. If you don't want to correct the problem, that's fine, but there's no sense in complaining about it. The more you complain, the more people wonder why you're so attached to a hosting company.

We've all had to change hosting companies for one reason or another...it's not that big of a deal.