New Link O'Rama Rules

[Greenguy]

I added 2 new rules to the Link O'Rama today.

23. Your site has to look decent at 800x600 - if I have to scroll to the right to see the entire page or things just look "off", it will be declined.

24. No sites with 3rd party counters will be listed. Get some stats on your server. (edited 07-26-04 - seethis post (http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?s=&postid=72197#post72197) )

#23 is common sense & is actually put in place to benefit you as well as me. No one likes to look at shitty sites.

#24 is, well, a sign of the times :)

Now, with the no counter rule - we will be going thru sites starting on July 19th (over 3 weeks from now) & sites that are currently listed & have counters will be pulled at that time.

[Surfn]

I wish I could submit |sad|

[Alphawolf]

Who has the most number of rules of any of the well known LL's?

BTW, linkorama is showing as a PR5 on my toolbar just now, whereas many other sites have gone up in PR. Hmm.

A result of those adult sites manually PR0'd by Google?

Caught the thread about PR updates on WebmasterWorld.

My primary domain went from PR4 to PR5 with no recips. :)

[Cleo]

Rule number 23 has been my rule also for a very long time. :)

I stopped using counters a long time ago. Most TGPs have had them banned for a long time. Basically it comes down to the fact that you are letting someone else execute on your pages.

I'm in on the no counter rule. I've been thinking of doing this for a long time anyway.

[Surfn]

I believe GG read my post in the counter thread which stated that my few sites taking public submits will have counters banned by September. ;)

[Greenguy]

Actually, my LOR's index page went from a 6 to a 5 last June as well - but then it was a 7 for most of July :D

I'm not too worried about it - PR updates usually take a week or so before things are final.

[f69j69b]

Hi Greenguy

I use a script to get my stats on my free sites. Its not a counter nothing shows on my sites. My question is would this be banned by your rule #24

Fred

[Useless]

Originally posted by f69j69b
Hi Greenguy

I use a script to get my stats on my free sites. Its not a counter nothing shows on my sites. My question is would this be banned by your rule #24

Fred

I do the same the thing. I have a hidden java script on each free site's index that does much of what sex tracker does (hits, uniques, referrers, browsers) and everything is generated at my site, not somewhere else. I'd have to assume that this too will be banned since it would be a monsterous pain in the balls for reviewers to determine the difference just by seeing the code. I don't blame them with the recent bullshit being pulled out there. It's nice to be able to check your real time stats every 5 seconds though.

[mb]

I'm pretty sure he means using a service like sextracker which is notorious for baiting surfers to click on the graphic and sending them to popup/dialer/adware hell.

I second what greenguy is doing.

marc
hoes.com

[stuveltje]

Now, with the no counter rule - we will be going thru sites starting on July 19th (over 3 weeks from now) & sites that are currently listed & have counters will be pulled at that time.

*faints* got always listed at your site, i can understand your counter rule for counters like sextracker and that other redirected thing, i always used paycounter, now you made me think because what the other counters did paycounter could do too, my server stats sucks ( although me have a good host) .so even i am not happy right now because i have to go thru my sites again to change things.........i will change them.Its your site and it are your rules. Now i need something what gives me good stats, any suggestions?

[beefcake]

Originally posted by stuveltje
*faints* got always listed at your site, i can understand your counter rule for counters like sextracker and that other redirected thing, i always used paycounter, now you made me think because what the other counters did paycounter could do too, my server stats sucks ( although me have a good host) .so even i am not happy right now because i have to go thru my sites again to change things.........i will change them.Its your site and it are your rules. Now i need something what gives me good stats, any suggestions?

|sad| |verysad| no counters????????

[Fonz]

First thing on my agenda: Remove counters from freesites :D

[Linkster]

Originally posted by mb

I second what greenguy is doing.



I'll third this one :) good rule and being added to LFS as well

[stuveltje]

I'll third this one good rule and being added to LFS as well

Oh you guys make me cry so much now|verysad

Oke thats it me gonna go thru what..... about 2500+ pages and removing my counters...........*faint* grin its only the 7 time i have to go thru all my pages, i am getting used to it|violin|
Hya linkster|waves|

[Greenguy]

Copy cats :D
(of course, others gave me the idea anyway - LOL)

I only care about coutners that I can see while surfing, but with the java ones that are working behind the scenes, as long as Norton or Zone Alarm doesn't go off while reviewing, you should be safe :)

[Useless]

Originally posted by Greenguy
Copy cats :D
(of course, others gave me the idea anyway - LOL)

I only care about coutners that I can see while surfing, but with the java ones that are working behind the scenes, as long as Norton or Zone Alarm doesn't go off while reviewing, you should be safe :)

Phew!!! I was worried. I promise - my little hidden counter won't ring any bells or whistles. Though, I may just begin to leave it out if more and more link lists become sensitive to it. It's jsut nice to see which site is being referred by which list. Helps me to decide how to lay out my recips for future sites.

[stuveltje]

I only care about coutners that I can see while surfing, but with the java ones that are working behind the scenes, as long as Norton or Zone Alarm doesn't go off while reviewing, you should be safe ahhhhhhhhhh, now you made me happy, because i realy want to keep my counters on my linksites , will try to remove most counters of my free sites, and will start in future to get used to look at my server stats! Thanks:)

[Cleo]

I find using my Analog stats for daily stats and AWStats for everything else gives me far more info then I ever got from any of the free counters.

[stuveltje]

AWStats

Yep kezza from link fabulous pointed me on that one this morning, after me was crying seeing GG post about his new rules ( just joking GG:)!) well i have tried different counters, but from start i use paycounter its easy and all and gives me alot of info, the rest redirected me and all, i am trying paid counter (netstats)on one of my linksites now, is cool to see about foreign traffic, but still they dont give me the info i see at paycounter, i check my paycounter everyday, that way i find out when something is strange like hotlinking and all. Till now me still happy with paycounter, so i am still glad they didnt fuck up....yet

[Cleo]

Personally I would love it if someone wrote a bit of code to remove PayCounter from all of my pages. Between all my domains I have PayCounter code on probably about one million or so pages. I stopped using them close to a year ago now I think.

[stuveltje]

Personally I would love it if someone wrote a bit of code to remove PayCounter from all of my pages. Between all my domains I have PayCounter code on probably about one million or so pages. I stopped using them close to a year ago now I think.
Why did you stopped using them cleo?

[Cleo]

Putting free counters on your pages hurts your listings at many places or even keeps you from getting listed and the stats from them suck anyway often being very inaccurate.

Once I leaned how to use my server stats there just wasn't any reason to use them anymore.

[Jan Barnes]

Cleo,

The way I see it, free counters have been useful in tersm of showing the referrers to a specific page. While my server stats give excellent statistics for each of my domains, they do not show the referrers to each specific page.

For example, I may have 20 small free sites under a domain. If I submit all of them to a bunch of link lists, the best way to see which ones got listed is to use a counter on the front page of each free site. For all of my free sites, I like to go through them once every 6-12 months or so to see which ones are still listed, or if any have been dropped. Then, I resubmit or update links as necessary. If I do not have referrer stats for each page in question, the only way is to use google to search for return links, and that is a pain in the ass. I really miss hitbox, their free counter was excellent.

[Surfn]

AWStats provides all the info on individual pages.

Pages-URL (Top 10) - Full list - Entry - Exit

[stuveltje]

The way I see it, free counters have been useful in tersm of showing the referrers to a specific page. While my server stats give excellent statistics for each of my domains, they do not show the referrers to each specific page. thats what i mean and its great, but i will look into AWstats if they provide all the things i have at paycounter i realy will consider to replace paycounter for awstats.

[TinCan]

Originally posted by Cleo
I find using my Analog stats for daily stats and AWStats for everything else gives me far more info then I ever got from any of the free counters.

Damn well I guess Im going to have to start learning how to use my server stats too...I have a question though...I see an Analog and an AWStats option on my server stats too...Can anyone tell me what is the difference between the two?? And to switch back and forth between the 2 options could take up to 24 hrs?? WTF?? Anyone wanna school me on this??? Thanks.

[xfalmp]

Originally posted by Cleo
Personally I would love it if someone wrote a bit of code to remove PayCounter from all of my pages. Between all my domains I have PayCounter code on probably about one million or so pages. I stopped using them close to a year ago now I think.

http://www.editplus.com/

I really like this program, it's like a Notepad improved. It'll let you open hundreds of files at once and search/replace all the opened files. The string being searched can have regular expressions, so it should do exactly what you want. I'd give it a try... if you don't know about regular expressions, leave me a PM and I'd be more than happy to help you with it.

This is not a offfer for Cleo specifically, anyone can feel free to PM me if needed.

[Cleo]

If I had to choose I would go with AWStats.

Much better reports and much nicer to use.

Analog stats looks like something from an old terminal interface that only a geek could love.

[JanTM]

I have AWstats on my server as well. But is there a way to:

1. Have it update automatically every day?
2. Have information from all domains at one place (like Paycounter)

I kind of like being able to see all my domains at once. As it is now I have to go to a specific URL on each domain and manually update the AWStats every time I want to see what is going on... and that is only on that domain. Then I have to do the same thing on all my domains.

[Cleo]

Not cheap but looks like all that and even better than sliced bread. :)
http://www.x3scripts.com/x3tracker.html?

[JanTM]

Hehe... OK I have to admit it. What I had in mind was a lot closer to "free" than it was to "$750" :D

[ladydesigner]

Does anyone know anything about this?
http://www.mrunix.net/webalizer/

That's the stats that my server has. Seems ok except like other people mentioned, if you build free sites off of a domain, you can't see where the traffic's coming from to that particular site, gallery or whatever.

[MrMaryLou]

Counters we dont need no stinking counters I count checks |jester|

[stuveltje]

Counters we dont need no stinking counters I count checks |waves| still i love all the info a counter gives me...........|violin| me go for awstats thing i think

[thrillho]

Originally posted by ladydesigner
Does anyone know anything about this?
http://www.mrunix.net/webalizer/

That's the stats that my server has. Seems ok except like other people mentioned, if you build free sites off of a domain, you can't see where the traffic's coming from to that particular site, gallery or whatever.

I'm not sure if this is what you're referring to, but if you mean the list of referral url's are all from your domain, webalizer can be configured to ignore those. It will then only list url's from other domains. I emailed my host about this, and they took care of it for me.

Not long ago, I posted the url for a free program I use that analyzes downloaded log files on your pc--
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8497

[ladydesigner]

Thanks thrillho. I'll e-mail my host about this. :-)

[burunduk]

hi!
I have a next questions:
1) I usually make thumbs for all sets of pictures => for my future free-sites, and 2 weeks ago I made thumbs for all sets pictures which I have (600pics => 30free-sites). And now for optimization my free-sites on 800*600 I must remake all thumbs ??? or I can change only width & height in src teg for thumbs??? e.g. I have thumbs 145*217, whether I can write in src teg width=100 & height=150 ??? if all thumbs remake = this is VERY big work!..

2)With what help browser the reviewers my sites look ? if I optimized my site 800*600 & in my browser (without various panels or toolbars e.g. google, yahoo tollbars, etc.,) I see my site without scroll, but if reviewer have in his browser google toolbar or any other - he will see with scroll => and my site will be declined! pls, explain!

thanks!

[abe]

Burunduk.
1. I think making 600 thumbs would take me about 5 minutes. Are you making them manually? For the case: here you find a free thumbnail program: http://www.fookes.com/ezthumbs/index.php?1.8c
Changing the size in the scr always cost loading time.

2. I think they only care about horizontal scrolling. Vertical scrolling will not be a problem I think.

[JanTM]

Originally posted by abe
2. I think they only care about horizontal scrolling. Vertical scrolling will not be a problem I think.

Yes. Its the sideways scrolling that is a problem... not up and down. :)

[SlickRick]

Originally posted by Greenguy

Now, with the no counter rule - we will be going thru sites starting on July 19th (over 3 weeks from now) & sites that are currently listed & have counters will be pulled at that time.

Hey GG

Question You say your removing sites with counters on them out of your database.

What trouble would someone get if they removed your return links off the pages they may have with counters?

[stuveltje]

marker of premium sex links, was so sweet to install the awstats script thing , so me save now with stats, well untill i have removed all my counters and make the folders for all my domains, but its a nice replacement|bananna| THANK YOU MARKER!!!!!|waves|

[Greenguy]

Originally posted by SlickRick
What trouble would someone get if they removed your return links off the pages they may have with counters? None :) We figured that would happen so if there's a counter & no recip to me, the link will just be pulled.

[SlickRick]

Originally posted by Greenguy
None :) We figured that would happen so if there's a counter & no recip to me, the link will just be pulled.


I was thinking last night after I posted my question. but you would prod get to the sites with counters before I would on my end. Anyhow Ill try to pull the counters off the pages. but I doupt i'd get them all before you got to them.

[Greenguy]

No one that has counters on their sites when we go thru them will be blacklisted - the sites will just be removed.

Sorry I wasn't clear on that in my 1st post :)

[xfalmp]

Originally posted by thrillho
Not long ago, I posted the url for a free program I use that analyzes downloaded log files on your pc--
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8497

How big are the files you are analyzing? I gave it a try and I didn't have luck trying it on some big files. :(

[xfalmp]

Originally posted by JanTM
1. Have it update automatically every day?

I have mine on crontab.. ask your server support to add it to your crontab for you.

[thrillho]

Originally posted by xfalmp
How big are the files you are analyzing? I gave it a try and I didn't have luck trying it on some big files. :(

My log files are generally between 1 and 2 1/2 megabytes (in the compressed .gz form that I download--unzipped, they're probably anywhere from 15 to 40 megabytes). Depending on the size, it's taken between 10 minutes and an hour for a file to be analyzed. Xlogan's decompression function is really slow--it's a little better if you unzip it and then have Xlogan analyze it that way. But it's still really slow. The first couple of times I tried to use it, I thought it had frozen on me. But, as I said in the other thread, if I have the time to start it up and let it run while I do something else, it gives the stats for every hit, every file, every request, etc.
Also, from the download page you can get to a forum moderated by the guy who wrote the program. He'll answer questions and take suggestions.

[Greenguy]

I had to make an adjustment to the "no counter" rule:

24. No sites with 3rd party counters will be listed. Get some stats on your server.

The rule should have stated this in the 1st place - sorry for any problems this causes.

[stuveltje]

I am slowly getting inline to removing all my counters n( i have an holiday and as soon i am behind my puter my hubby and kids pull me by my hair away from it), i have (like suggested earlier in this thread) awstats i like that one too, and i have to say counters will always be a traffic leak so there is a good thing at the end of this.

[Mike@MS]

Hello, guys!
I was just told about this anti-counter thread, please let me introduce the other side. Not to promote or anything - just to clarify things.
I know these days people do worry about the malicious activities.

I'm a programmer of the masterstats.com counter, so this would be pretty technical.
We use plain and simple Javascript code for our counter, that anybody who can read - can read.
We don't use <script src=URL> - so, after you got your counter code nothing could be changed and your user will not download and/or execute nothing you are not aware of.
Looking at the code (I can send an example in case you're interested) you can see that we don't collect any "more personal" info about the user's system - or you can take my word on that. Actually we don't collect any info about the users' OS, plugins, browser type, screen resolution etc.

Right now this Javascript code is being executed about 12 mln times/day on different systems, browsers etc. - without any complains. Or if something is wrong - we fix it.

Next - the redirections. First of all, if the user clicks the MS counter image he opens a pop-up, so, he actually won't leave your page (target=_blank in the counter code). Then, our stats says that only 1-2 visitor of 1000 clicks the counter icon, which means 0.1-0.2%. They are all taken to the ranking pages of the appropriate category, so all adult/erotic sites will redirect to http://erotic.masterstats.com/

This is probably a subject to change - but webmasters will be notified as they always are in case of any changes on our side. The part of the new targeting will be the storefront - plane and simple, no any downloads, dialers or whatever was mentioned.

The counter is affiliated with Proadult.com, so you could be sure, no malicious things will ever happen.

And the last thing - it was mentioned that you can use your server logs. Sure you can. In case you have it, in case you have purchased the proper sofware, in case your server is powerfull enough to analyse the huge logs. If you have all these things you better run your own logs and have more precise data than we can ever give you, no doubt.

But if your site is hosted at some regular hoster's old busy overloaded servers you probably don't have all these things or don't want all the hustles.

Or if your servers already are busy with the regular jobs, or if you don't want to invest in customary log analysing sofware.

We keep stats plain and simple, easy to switch from site to site, easy to compare, easy to see all kinds of summaries. Right now we're preparing the new 2.2 GHz AMD64 Opteron Quad servers for this project together with the huge disk arrays. (Oops, I'm sorry, I'm actually not the hardware guy - it shows
processor : 3
vendor_id : AuthenticAMD
cpu family : 15
model : 5
model name : AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 848
stepping : 10
cpu MHz : 2193.624
cache size : 1024 KB

I think they are in fact 2.4GHz, the latest 64bit ones). Here we have our little soapbox :)

Our counter plain responce time is in most cases 0.07-0.08sec (from the server in the same colocation), when it grows above 0.3s my cell rings :)

Here you can see a fresh example of the internal counter speed (1000 hits stats per each Apache child before the proxy stage)
[Sun Aug 1 19:49:45 2004] [notice] Child 3153 stats:
0.01 0.02 0.03 0.04 0.05 0.06 0.07 0.08
99 749 98 33 10 4 6 1
[Sun Aug 1 19:49:47 2004] [notice] Child 3162 stats:
0.01 0.02 0.03 0.04 0.05 0.06 0.07 0.08 0.09
88 720 123 39 16 5 7 1 1

(1st line is timing in sec, 2nd line - number of hits)

Well, guys, I'm just a leader programmer of the project, and may be we're not the very best counter out there (please, let me know if we're not). I just want to say, IMHO it's not all bad in using counters.

Thanks!

Mike Blazer
Programmer at MasterStats.com

[Greenguy]

Originally posted by Mike@MS
...IMHO it's not all bad in using counters... 5 years ago it was considered a good idea to use free hosting, but then the bad hosts started to outnumber the good hosts & it was just easier to ban them completely.

The same is now true for counters :(

[Surfn]

Originally posted by Greenguy
5 years ago it was considered a good idea to use free hosting, but then the bad hosts started to outnumber the good hosts & it was just easier to ban them completely.

The same is now true for counters :( Unfortunately I have to concur on this point |sad|

[Mike@MS]

This sounds a bit odd to me, like: there are adware/malware programs on the Internet, there are trojans, - let's stop using any software!
I know - time passes by, good services are getting worse, but for example Google shows that it's not always like that.

IMHO the whole point of such webmasters' boards is to share experience, to get to know that this service stinks, but that one and another one are decent, so, let's migrate etc.etc.

There also are blacklists to stop using indecent services...


Mike Blazer
Programmer at MasterStats.com

[Surfn]

Mike@MS

You aren't the first to accuse me of being "a bit odd" and probably not the last.

[Mike@MS]

It's not you, I mean the whole idea:
matches could burn your house, lets forbid using matches all over the country!

That's ok, it's up to you until it's up to you. But the anti-counter rule does not leave it on your decision.

[Greenguy]

If each time I ordered a Fruit Cocktail at whatever restaurant I was at & then got hit inthe head with a hammer, well, I'd stop ordering Fruit Cocktails :D

It's the "one bad apple" syndrome & it's much easier to ban all free hosts, all sponsor content & all counters than it is to have 5 different reviewers remember that this one is ok but this one is bad....