The End Of Illegal Tubes Starts HERE

[xxxjay]

I had a meeting with an industry lawyer today. An ISP got slapped for $32M for DMCA violation. It should be interesting to see how the spills into tubes.

$32M Louis Vuitton judgment shows limits of ISP safe harbors
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/09/32m-louis-vuitton-judgment-shows-limits-of-isp-safe-harbors.ars

[Cleo]

We can dream :)

[Pagan]

*IF* the only content that was available to the illegal tubes was poor quality, short clips I might agree. Most ISPs won't be caught, and frankly could care less. Big guys like Roadrunner don't blink even when presented with documentation that they are hosting illegal sites using blatantly pirated software. It wasn't, "Prove it", it was "So what? We don't have the manpower to check on this stuff, even with a complaint".

I think sponsors also have to consider what it does when their content is splattered all over the web (and no, I am not speaking of the limited free content we affiliates are permitted to use for promotion). If surfers get it all for free, why bother buying? Make the tube clips low quality and short and give the affiliates a bit better quality and longer so that we can show the freeloaders WHY they should subscribe. How dismal is the conversion rate from a tube site versus bandwidth and investment?

Not all ISPs are in countries that care about copyright or 2257. In some respects, targeting the ISP just drives the illegal operators offshore and onto hosts where anything goes, including underage crap. Is this really the best way?

[faxxaff]

It's much easier to go after people if you hold a trademark, but without you have much less leverage. LV sued eBay and won 300 Million US$ in compensation for pirated goods being offered on eBay auctions.

[tickler]

xxxjay it does look promising that the pieces are starting to fall into place to kneecap the tubes

Most ISPs won't be caught, and frankly could care less. Big guys like Roadrunner don't blink even when presented with documentation that they are hosting illegal sites using blatantly pirated software. It wasn't, "Prove it", it was "So what? We don't have the manpower to check on this stuff, even with a complaint".
Well I guess that adding some manpower to do it will become a cost of doing business because the alternative fines/jail cost a lot more. |whisper|

And as faxxaff mentioned trademarks are easier to push internationally. In these cases LV is a French company going after American companies in the USA.

Not all ISPs are in countries that care about copyright or 2257. In some respects, targeting the ISP just drives the illegal operators offshore and onto hosts where anything goes, including underage crap. Is this really the best way?
They may find themselves in even bigger shit in some of those countries also.

Just look at the copyright suit in South Korea against 10,000 heavy uploaders who could face millions in fines(or worse) each.
http://tech.yahoo.com/news/afp/20090813/tc_afp/skoreaitinternetpornography_20090813063524
The case may or may not work as far as copyrights, but at the same time 10k uploaders have been identified to the cops in a country where porn is illegal. |boobies||club|

[bDok]

A new hope. If I wasn't posting from my iPhone I'd insert a pic of star wars here. ;)

[Tommy]

what ya need is someone to win and collect a large sum of money from a tube site

once its profitable to sue everyone will

[Toby]

what ya need is someone to win and collect a large sum of money from a tube site...

Quite often collecting is far more difficult than winning.

Collecting a judgement, particularly when the company and/or owners are offshore can be next to impossible.

[StrokeKing]

I think that's exactly the problem - a judgment is one thing, but collecting is another. With most of these guys offshore/insulated you can bet that they're here to stay.

I recall 8-10 years ago people talking shit about galleries like they do Tubes now - and NNTP - and torrents. Don't get me wrong - I still recognize it's a far larger problem.

Instead of expecting these type sites to go away - isn't the answer to adapt - provide sites with member-driven content and interactivity that simply can't be supplied over rip-n-post tubes?

I dunno, caught me on a bad night I guess.

[StrokeKing]

You could certainly expect that at least ONE link in the offshore chain is located in the US - and thus open to litigation - but as long as the sponsors still pay out high volume copyright infringing affiliates - they're not going anywhere.

[Vivaldi]

I'd say once YouTube fall all will fall ... till then dream on

[tickler]

Quite often collecting is far more difficult than winning.

Collecting a judgement, particularly when the company and/or owners are offshore can be next to impossible.

You could certainly expect that at least ONE link in the offshore chain is located in the US - and thus open to litigation - but as long as the sponsors still pay out high volume copyright infringing affiliates - they're not going anywhere.
Yeah, the courts could drop a lien on their income sources, and being ®TM may be applied through international treaties.

Also if they ever step foot somewhere that is friendly to the court they can be corraled to face a judge

[BadWolf]

The End Of Illegal Tubes Starts HERE

Glad to hear it. Send me a postcard when they're all gone.

[flip.green]

Not much here to get excited about chinese knockoffs are one thing tube sites are something else entirely

[Paul&John]

Can't the big guys send DMCA to google? http://www.google.com/dmca.html
So they simply will be banned from google, I think the most traffic is coming from there.. What do you think?

[becky]

The problem is no one is going to cough up the cash it takes to truly fight the tubes sites in court and try to get a favorable decision. And even if you do, it will be near impossible to get any of them shut down. More money and time to pursue your judgment / damages.

[xxxjay]

Can't the big guys send DMCA to google? http://www.google.com/dmca.html
So they simply will be banned from google, I think the most traffic is coming from there.. What do you think?

People type "porn" and they get porn. Google likes this. It might actually be a disadvantage have a linklist even.

:(

[Paul&John]

But i still think won't hurt to try.

[blinki bill]

fighting with illegal tube sites is next to impossible for me, it's like fighting a torrent...

I think the big tubes can do it even without search engines, a lot of people that don't even watch porn will name the biggest ones...
these kind of sites are paradise for the surfers and as long the url is short if will have traffic without any help from SE's

[ArtWilliams]

The problem is no one is going to cough up the cash it takes to truly fight the tubes sites in court and try to get a favorable decision. And even if you do, it will be near impossible to get any of them shut down. More money and time to pursue your judgment / damages.

Microsoft has had some success against pirates but only because they have deep pockets and huge political influence in Washington. This in turn means that the politicians make the piracy a trade issue with foreign leaders. Sadly, porn companies will never have this power.

[thefandango]

My view is you are fighting a losing war against tubes. My mates can name a few of the big tube sites and they have little or no interest in porn or the industry. It seems that the adult tubes ride the you tube wave - ie - when people can't find porn on you tube they think "ah there must be porn versions" and bang! one search does it all.

In a way the endless gateway pages, pop-ups, hijacks and never ending funnels that only ever lead to a subscription form, coupled with the fears over giving credit card details to an industry most people perceive as "dodgy" and linked to "dodgy" people, has been the industries own downfall perhaps and led to the increase of people visiting tube sites as well?

[Evil Chris]

It still feels like the the Wild West out there.

[GonZo]

It still feels like the the Wild West out there.

Looks more like the Bronx to me . . .

[tickler]

Looks more like the Bronx to me . . .
More like wild animals that got loose from the zoo! |loony|

Does Eric really expect people to buy his excuse about grabbing the money from the TJ tube skin just to fight tubes |kissass|

BTW |thumb GoFuckGfy |catfight|

[xcore]

It still feels like the the Wild West out there.
And it will be like this. Even if some countries will get rid of this pain - there will be always some ways to create it somewhere else...