A>B>C Recips for linklists?

[xxxjay]

I've been playing around with making the recips for free sites listed go to
:

33.3% Back To Jays
33.3% To Snizzshare
33.3% To Other sites I have in my network

I want people opinion? Is this bad? SE wise it should help because it is widely known that straight recips can lead to penelty.

What do you guys think?

Jay

[pornhitzman]

That will probably not help you at all. Building a quality site will..

[JackDaniel's]

I've seen a lot of LL owners (especially big ones) rejecting free sites for having their recips along with others that are not linking to a LL (for example Snizzshare).

I think that is pretty bad for the business.

[ladydesigner]

I think that is pretty bad for the business.

I agree! Jay, I used to submit free sites to you but stopped when you started adding links into your recip tables to snizzshare. I suspect many others did as well. As a link list owner, I reject people's sites for including recips that have links to non-link lists on their sites.

[spacemanspiff]

I think that is pretty bad for the business.

I'm not sure what you're saying here JD. It's bad for business when LL reject freesites with ABC recips, or it's bad for business for FS builders to use those types of recips.

Personally, I think the traditional LL model is in the shitter right now (at least compared to what it used to be), and I wonder why every time someone comes up with a new idea a lot of folks dig in their heels.

I think Jay's idea has merit, and should be explored.

[JackDaniel's]

I'm not sure what you're saying here JD. It's bad for business when LL reject freesites with ABC recips, or it's bad for business for FS builders to use those types of recips.


It's bad for both ! It's bad for free site submitters when their sites get rejected and it's bad for LL owners when free site submitters stop using ABC recips because of the rejections.

[tigermom]

I don't work with recips to sites other than the LL for the reasons mentioned above (rejection by other LL's). I don't think it's a bad idea, SEO-wise though. It's probably better than the current model.

[Greenguy]

...33.3% To Other sites I have in my network......that redirect to Snizz Share |couch|

I'm rejecting sites that I see linking to non-link-lists in their recips, seeing as the recips are there as a way of linking back to the link list that you have submitted to.

Don't even think this is a tube site thing - it's a non-link-list thing - what the other site is is irrelevant.

[spacemanspiff]

For the LL owners that are rejecting freesites with ABC recips because other LL are rejecting them, I assume the reason for that is your not seeing any benefit (other than providing content to your surfers) from them, like link juice or traffic.

Is this correct?

[Greenguy]

There is another aspect to all this & I'll be completely honest with it: the 1st time I saw a Jay's recip linked to Snizz Share instead of his link list, I thought it was a shady way to get traffic & links to Snizz Share. It's not like he came here & started a thread & said this is what he wanted to do & ABC & whatever. They just started to pop up when I was reviewing.

I also wondered how long it'd take for a big link list to add paysite link codes to their recips.

If other Link Lists want to accept them, then so be it. But I see it as another "slippery slope" that I don't want to tread on.

[Useless]

I too think that a link list's reciprocal link should be a direct reciprocal link and not a link to some other site. I can't argue the SE benefit of that type of linking and we all know that Jay is a respected SE strategist - but I really don't feel that recip links are the proper place to push traffic or link juice to our other properties.

[papagmp]

For me as a FS builder, the problem is getting my sites declined at the big-traffic LL's because there are non-LL links in the recip.

As an LL owner, it's trying to keep track of the mess. Why should I send traffic to site B if site B lists no sites with links back to me? And how the hell would I know if site B links to site C and site C has links back to me? Fuck, I'm confused already |loony|

[sue-fl]

I know nothing about SEO all I know is I can't submit to Jay's any more because of your change in recips. and I miss the traffic you used to send.

[Lemmy]

If it doesn't link back to the listing site it's not technically a reciprocal. I'm not against thinking outside the box, but here I definitely see the slippery slope argument.

[Buncha]

Jay,

Are you declining FS that use a custom recip? For example, instead of the snizzshare recip, using a textlink to Jays frontpage on top and a category link on bottom.

Jay's XXX Links
CATEGORY

[xxxjay]

I'm not sure what you're saying here JD. It's bad for business when LL reject freesites with ABC recips, or it's bad for business for FS builders to use those types of recips.

Personally, I think the traditional LL model is in the shitter right now (at least compared to what it used to be), and I wonder why every time someone comes up with a new idea a lot of folks dig in their heels.

I think Jay's idea has merit, and should be explored.

Thanks man, I doubt there is anyone that can say they are doing better now than they were 5 years ago. You have to shake things up once in a while.

Does everything have to stay in 1999? The rest of the internet has moved on and evolved. I still pay a reviewer more than enough so other people get free traffic.

Snizzshare is a 100% legit (abliet fake) "tube" site, it damn sure is no Redtube or Tube 8. After some surfer sees pornhub.com do you think they will every go back to a linklist again?

That all aside, the linking methods we use worked great 5 years ago, but Google is hip to recip linking and it will actually hurt you. Don't believe me, read up:

http://www.webmasterworld.com/link_development/3434655.htm

http://www.knoge.com/make-money-online/205-search-engine-optimization/360-why-reciprocal-links-dont-work.html

Hell just look "Google Repicolal Linking":
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLL,GGLL:2007-50,GGLL:en&q=google+reciprocal+linking

Why do we insist on sticking to a method that just dooms up to failure?

That's the one thing that really frustrates me with this who linklist game is most people refusal to evolve.

Just so nobody gets their panties in a wad I am re-doing my link tables this week back to just normal recips.

[papagmp]

it damn sure is no Redtube or Tube 8. After some surfer sees pornhub.com do you think they will every go back to a linklist again?


They will if they're running decent antvirus/spyware/addware/malware software - every one of those fuckers is propagating addware and/or malware.

[xxxjay]

They will if they're running decent antvirus/spyware/addware/malware software - every one of those fuckers is propagating addware and/or malware.

LOL...when I want to crank one off to I use pornhub.com all the time and nothing happens. Same with tube8 and redtube

[AndyS]

That's the one thing that really frustrates me with this who linklist game is most people refusal to evolve.
Top post xxxJay, that is one of the reasons I spend more and more of my time building 'free sites' that will never go anywhere near a linklist.

[Greenguy]

1999? Hell, in 97, I asked people to link to my site & I'd do the same to theirs. I don't even think the Google guys knew about Google back then :D

[DangerDave]

1999? Hell, in 97, I asked people to link to my site & I'd do the same to theirs. I don't even think the Google guys knew about Google back then :D

What gets me... is this constant haranging about "refusal to evolve", "how resistant the old guard is to change"

If "you" want to evolve... go fucking evolve..

.. but don't come here telling everyone that "we" are 'old school', or 'out of touch', or 'refuse to change'.


As has been mentioned.. we HAVE been here, doing this, since before 1997 and guess what we are still here.


Maybe we would have retired already if we had a dollar for every "new idea" that came along and then failed dismally, or disappeared - like the fad it was - in just a few months.

"We" don't always get it right, and we don't always lead the world in innovation....

BUT! "WE" have been making sure
other people get free traffic
for a fucking long time now.. and guess what "WE" still do... and I imagine in a few more years time "WE" will still be supplying traffic.


So if you want to go change shit.. go do it.. but don't forget the one rule that has existed almost since the beginning..

It is "OUR" Lists and "WE" make the rules for "OUR" Lists.... dont like them.. dont submit.. it is that simple

DD

[Useless]

What gets me... is this constant haranging about "refusal to evolve", "how resistant the old guard is to change"

If "you" want to evolve... go fucking evolve.. Anyone ever tell you that you look sexy when you're angry?
|couch|

[Greenguy]

Help me out with something - with the ABC link trades, the way Jay has it, Jay is A, the free site is B & SnizzShare is C - right?

How is this supposed to help who out as far as SE's? And who is it supposed to help - A, B or C?

[DangerDave]

Anyone ever tell you that you look sexy when you're angry?
|couch|

Angry..... Moi?

[Useless]

Help me out with something - with the ABC link trades, the way Jay has it, Jay is A, the free site is B & SnizzShare is C - right?

How is this supposed to help who out as far as SE's? And who is it supposed to help - A, B or C?ABC link trades are supposed to be a way to get around the alleged negative impact of direct reciprocal link trades. I couldn't say whether there was/is any benefit to such linking. It's always sounded so silly to me. ;) It's not as if the SEs are blind to the relationships formed between different domains anyway. "Let's say the zeros and ones in Cass' camera help you hear my father's word." (John From Cincinnati) And let's say that the zeros and ones in Google's algorithm are just as all-seeing, all-knowing.

Links to other sites within a recip have always been one of my pet peeves. Bookmark Links' recip has a second link to a review site and that bugs the shit out of me. Some of Ne*Dee's recips link directly to sales pages on the site instead of category pages. That bugs me too.

[xxxjay]

ABC link trades are supposed to be a way to get around the alleged negative impact of direct reciprocal link trades. I couldn't say whether there was/is any benefit to such linking. It's always sounded so silly to me. ;) It's not as if the SEs are blind to the relationships formed between different domains anyway. "Let's say the zeros and ones in Cass' camera help you hear my father's word." (John From Cincinnati) And let's say that the zeros and ones in Google's algorithm are just as all-seeing, all-knowing.



What UW said. :-)

[LD]

Top post xxxJay, that is one of the reasons I spend more and more of my time building 'free sites' that will never go anywhere near a linklist.

where do they go if I might ask...?

[xxxjay]

where do they go if I might ask...?


Buy more than 1 domain, put your eggs in more than one back, ... we can all be on the streets as easily as the next guy

just my opinion

[XPorn]

Hummmm....

I see your recips are still snizzing. Interesting.......

XPorn

[Greenguy]

You want interesting? I just looked at a Free Site that has this in the recips:

Jays XXX Blogs (http://www.jaysxxxblogs.com/)
BBW Porn Blogs (http://www.jaysxxxblogs.com/bbw-porn-blogs/)

This could be one of 2 things:
1 - a screw up by the FS builder (he's a "trusted" submitter as far as I know)
2 - Jay thinking that the blog site is ok where the tube site was not

If it's #2, I'll just have to restate that my problem is not with the tube site, my problem is that this is not a recip link - this FS was not submitted to and is not listed on the blog site.

|banghead|

[xxxjay]

You want interesting? I just looked at a Free Site that has this in the recips:

Jays XXX Blogs (http://www.jaysxxxblogs.com/)
BBW Porn Blogs (http://www.jaysxxxblogs.com/bbw-porn-blogs/)

This could be one of 2 things:
1 - a screw up by the FS builder (he's a "trusted" submitter as far as I know)
2 - Jay thinking that the blog site is ok where the tube site was not

If it's #2, I'll just have to restate that my problem is not with the tube site, my problem is that this is not a recip link - this FS was not submitted to and is not listed on the blog site.

|banghead|

I list your sites with your link back every single day...why does it matter so much what I ask for a link back...like I've stated in the past A>B linking is about the stupidest thing you can do this days.

I'm just going to have Dare redo the links to the bland A>B recip this week.

I know, I'm a piece of shit for trying anything innovative.

Sorry about that. Welcome back to 1999. :-)

[DangerDave]

I list your sites with your link back every single day...why does it matter so much what I ask for a link back...


You dont .. you ask for a link to another site.


like I've stated in the past A>B linking is about the stupidest thing you can do this days.

This is just another unsupported argument.... why is it stupid..? ...because you say it is?


I'm just going to have Dare redo the links to the bland A>B recip this week.

I know, I'm a piece of shit for trying anything innovative.

Why change them if they are sooooooo INNOVATIVE


Sorry about that. Welcome back to 1999. :-)

Reciprocal links were a standard long before '99



Recip links are recip links, a link telling the surfer where the site was listed, and who listed it, and returning some click traffic to the lists that listed the site. That is all!

The "use" of recip links to gain search engine advantage is bullshit theory that seems to have taken hold of some peoples minds!

It is a recip link.. if you want some other sort of link from/to somewhere else, get it some other way.

DD

[Greenguy]

...Just so nobody gets their panties in a wad I am re-doing my link tables this week back to just normal recips.

...I'm just going to have Dare redo the links to the bland A>B recip this week....

Based on what you said last month, I was honestly surprised to still see the "C" recips when I posted on Saturday.

If this was to continue, what's to stop a big Link List from having the webmaster link to a paysite? FPA? Auto-installer? I can see a lot of potential problems with this & causing extra review time is only the start.

Like DDave said, it's a RECIP link - you link to me, I link back to you.

[Pagan]

I always thought of a recip link as a way of saying .. "If you like my product, here is where you can find more just like it". I am strictly console/pop-up free wherever I can possibly be and want the link lists I submit my sites to to be the same. The sites they list meet the same criteria, so everyone wins. Likewise, surfers on their sites know that if they click on a link they are not heading into some circle-jerk hell that is filled with all kinds of crapola.

Now, with the A-B-C idea, I have to agree with GG. Where does it stop? Why confuse the poor porn-hungry surfer who is looking for a Reciprocal Link -- a link to a list -- by feeding him something else. It just isn't honest to anyone.

Lastly, it is a way to thank the link lists for showcasing us and pointing the visitors in our direction. I have no issue at all with giving honest recip links to both category and to the lists themselves. These guys earn it!

[xxxjay]

I always thought of a recip link as a way of saying .. "If you like my product, here is where you can find more just like it". I am strictly console/pop-up free wherever I can possibly be and want the link lists I submit my sites to to be the same. The sites they list meet the same criteria, so everyone wins. Likewise, surfers on their sites know that if they click on a link they are not heading into some circle-jerk hell that is filled with all kinds of crapola.

Now, with the A-B-C idea, I have to agree with GG. Where does it stop? Why confuse the poor porn-hungry surfer who is looking for a Reciprocal Link -- a link to a list -- by feeding him something else. It just isn't honest to anyone.

Lastly, it is a way to thank the link lists for showcasing us and pointing the visitors in our direction. I have no issue at all with giving honest recip links to both category and to the lists themselves. These guys earn it!

Couple comments:

1. This is GGandJim: Everybody kisses GG's ass.

2. Nobody even clicks those links anyway. They are for SEO.

3. Study up: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=uY3&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=recip+linking+google+penalty&spell=1

[xxxjay]

Subject: change recips
From: jayisagoldengod@roadrunner.com
Date: July 8, 2008 6:27:32 PM PDT
To: kartem@gmail.com
Cc: webmaster@greenguysboard.com

Art,

Can you change the recip table back to all straight recips back to Jay's categories.

Please have this done by Friday.

Jay

[hashbury]

Couple comments:

1. This is GGandJim: Everybody kisses GG's ass.

2. Nobody even clicks those links anyway. They are for SEO.

3. Study up: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=uY3&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=recip+linking+google+penalty&spell=1

1. I dont kiss anyones ass

2. BS My link list's get around 20% of there traffic from recip tables

3. You are right. I could not get a good ranking in google till i started a-b-c link trades. Your idea of a-b-c recips is a great one and would earn you considerable rankings in search engines, but your not going to change anyones mind around here or anywhere else. You should find another way around this, and figure out a way for your submitters to link to one of your sites using one of there three outgoing links.

[Pagan]

xxxJay, I have been around too long to kiss anyone's ass. I refuse to start now, no matter who you are or what you are offering me. The few here that know me will tell you that I am not afraid to speak my mind or stand behind my work. Oh, and while we are at it, this is not the only board, nor is GG the only link list in town. While I enjoy the exposure and traffic, I know the time in his limelight is short due to so many other sites being submitted. If he links my sites, great.. if not, great.

If I submit a quality site and a LL owner chooses to add it to their list, my opinions are not attached to it. What is attached is my honesty and integrity. I won't lower the quality of a site after I submit, I won't change my exit links to something non-adult after I submit. I never have, and I don't intend to start now.

Your idea of the link trades is not a bad one -- just poorly named. I do have 3 outbound links per page that I can use. What is to stop me from using one to someone's site (provided it is not blind)? For example, on my last gallery page, I can always add a named or bannered teaser that directs a hungry surfer over to another site instead of offering an advertiser's banner. But.. what is in it for me? Why should I?

As commonplace as Google has become it is not the only directory in the universe, nor has it become endowed with some godlike powers. Over the years, I have gained more hits from one single Persian Kitty link than from anything else. Why? Surfers don't use Google to tell them to go to Persian Kitty or GG or Smutgremlin or any other top directory. It is word of mouth or prior experience. Also, Google has a reputation for changing their strategies and "penalties" faster than most women change their panties. The link you quoted is over a year old.

YES, I do click those links on the tables. If I like the site I am on and want to see more of the same type/quality, I know from experience to check the links on the recip. If it's a LL I don't know, maybe I want to know about it. Where else would I go? If I Google for some unknown unlinked site, I am for sure going to end up virused or in some pop-up, console-fed hell. It happens every single day and it costs the unsuspecting hundreds of dollars if not more every year.

How do you surf for porn? That should be a good guide right there. If you don't, ask your drinking/partying buddies.

[xxxjay]

xxxJay, I have been around too long to kiss anyone's ass. I refuse to start now, no matter who you are or what you are offering me. The few here that know me will tell you that I am not afraid to speak my mind or stand behind my work. Oh, and while we are at it, this is not the only board, nor is GG the only link list in town. While I enjoy the exposure and traffic, I know the time in his limelight is short due to so many other sites being submitted. If he links my sites, great.. if not, great.

If I submit a quality site and a LL owner chooses to add it to their list, my opinions are not attached to it. What is attached is my honesty and integrity. I won't lower the quality of a site after I submit, I won't change my exit links to something non-adult after I submit. I never have, and I don't intend to start now.

Your idea of the link trades is not a bad one -- just poorly named. I do have 3 outbound links per page that I can use. What is to stop me from using one to someone's site (provided it is not blind)? For example, on my last gallery page, I can always add a named or bannered teaser that directs a hungry surfer over to another site instead of offering an advertiser's banner. But.. what is in it for me? Why should I?

As commonplace as Google has become it is not the only directory in the universe, nor has it become endowed with some godlike powers. Over the years, I have gained more hits from one single Persian Kitty link than from anything else. Why? Surfers don't use Google to tell them to go to Persian Kitty or GG or Smutgremlin or any other top directory. It is word of mouth or prior experience. Also, Google has a reputation for changing their strategies and "penalties" faster than most women change their panties. The link you quoted is over a year old.

YES, I do click those links on the tables. If I like the site I am on and want to see more of the same type/quality, I know from experience to check the links on the recip. If it's a LL I don't know, maybe I want to know about it. Where else would I go? If I Google for some unknown unlinked site, I am for sure going to end up virused or in some pop-up, console-fed hell. It happens every single day and it costs the unsuspecting hundreds of dollars if not more every year.

How do you surf for porn? That should be a good guide right there. If you don't, ask your drinking/partying buddies.

You all can chill out the recips are switched:
http://www.jays-xxx-links.com/submit_categories.html

[Jel]

Hit this one a bit late, but I agree, A>B recips hurt. Not just 'less advantage than A>B>C recips', but actually hurt* (when it comes to google, and let's be honest, we all much prefer good google serps than any other SE).

As for clicks on recips, sure, they do occur, but wouldn't people rather trade the few clicks (yeah I know they add up) from those, for better SERPS?

And to answer a statement from I forget who, along the lines of 'what's in it for me, the freesite submitter?', well, better SERPS for the LLs you sub to, and consequently more of that precious SE traffic.

*in my personal experience, before anyone asks for a link to my source :)

[Licker4U]

All of this is moot to me because I don't submit to Jay's XXX Links. His stupid requirement that I sign up under him at sponsor's is an atrocity! Get in the real world Jay. |fuckyou|

[Jel]

Forgot to add: What clicks LL owners 'lose' by surfers clicking from their LL to the freesite, to clicking on a recip of someone else's, wherever it may go, they get back from the other person's LL anyway. Assuming it's one of the bigger LLs.

[Greenguy]

Help me out with something - with the ABC link trades, the way Jay has it, Jay is A, the free site is B & SnizzShare is C - right?

How is this supposed to help who out as far as SE's? And who is it supposed to help - A, B or C?
1 month later, I'd still like to hear a legit answer to this question since I was not asking to be an asshole.

[faxxaff]

1 month later, I'd still like to hear a legit answer to this question since I was not asking to be an asshole.

Actually, an A - B - C link trade is only good if it is an open fork. That means A and C should not link to each other at all or be connected in any other way than by B. But since xxxjay's link site and snizz share link to each other there is no benefit from it as the links built a closed circle.

In other words, it has no use in terms of SEO for xxxjay at all. At least that is my logic.

[Greenguy]

Thank you faxxaff |shake|

[Jel]

Actually, an A - B - C link trade is only good if it is an open fork. That means A and C should not link to each other at all or be connected in any other way than by B. But since xxxjay's link site and snizz share link to each other there is no benefit from it as the links built a closed circle.

In other words, it has no use in terms of SEO for xxxjay at all. At least that is my logic.

I didn't see the exact recips, but I assume they went so that A (the root, rather than the category page) didn't link to B (the freesite), in which case there is no closed circle. Like I say, I didn't see the recips, so I may be wrong :)

[plateman]

If this was to continue, what's to stop a big Link List from having the webmaster link to a paysite? FPA? Auto-installer? I can see a lot of potential problems with this & causing extra review time is only the start.

I already am seeing submitters playing with recip links lately

recip links that have aff codes in them

my biggest reject reason on the index of a free sites is: bind recip links to LL's

and total bind links to there hubs

also from reviwing galleries tgps have caught on to the blind keyword recip style of recip links

and I totally agree with greenie about the abuse factor that the a-b-c recip will start

[xxxjay]

I already am seeing submitters playing with recip links lately

recip links that have aff codes in them

my biggest reject reason on the index of a free sites is: bind recip links to LL's

and total bind links to there hubs

also from reviwing galleries tgps have caught on to the blind keyword recip style of recip links

and I totally agree with greenie about the abuse factor that the a-b-c recip will start

Why is this fucking thread even still going? I even posted another thread saying that I had switched back to the vanilla recips, even though I still disagree with it being a real problem.

[xxxjay]

Jeez...can anyone even tell me why I waste money advertising here to a crowd of webmasters that clearly hates me beause me and greenie differ in opinion from time to time? We sqaused this shit in Vegas with 2 minutes and a handshake.

God damn sheep I tell you.

[Greenguy]

Why is this fucking thread even still going?...I only bumped it because I am honestly still looking for info on why this form of ABC is good.

I sorta understand what you're saying & trying to do, but I still can't grasp it the way that you're going about it.

And Jay is right - we both agreed that each had valid points & each was sorta right & shook hands - so I do hope that everyone knows this is mostly a discussion & even if I call Jay an asshole, I still respect him.

[xxxjay]

I only bumped it because I am honestly still looking for info on why this form of ABC is good.

I sorta understand what you're saying & trying to do, but I still can't grasp it the way that you're going about it.

And Jay is right - we both agreed that each had valid points & each was sorta right & shook hands - so I do hope that everyone knows this is mostly a discussion & even if I call Jay an asshole, I still respect him.

Haha, likewise.

Well, if people do hubs for all your freesites, I would highly reccomend trying and ABC on the root where you haven't submitted to linkslists, I think yu will be happy with the results.

:D