What Pisses You Off With Link Lists & Free Sites? [Archive]

caringneo

2007-08-18, 08:25 AM

I haven't been submitting freesites for a while now. But I am building new freesites and on the way to request some partner account. So, I am not sure if making a comment will do any good for me.

But to be honest, I didn't like the idea of adding new category recips for an ever growing site like yours. I mean, micro-niche pages like Tan Lines are good for Both LOR and freesites to get good seo traffic. But most of the freesite builder find it more time consuming to add recips an submit than building the freesite itself. And most of us have standard recip table ready for our niche.
Noone of us will have a problem for selecting the right category when we are on the submit page. But going back and adding a new recip is bit annoying at times. (And after doing all these if I don't get listed, it is frustrating. LOL )

Other than that, the minimum 12 pics/page rule for LOR was bit odd since most of the other Link Lists are still accepting sites with minimum 10pics/page. And many link lists will blindly follow your rules. So I can see more and more linklists going to ask for that 12 pics/page. The picture size and quality rule is good. |thumb (I know these rules are online for a while now. But I never got a chance to comment. :D )

Some of the webmasters who wants to be in GreenGuys good book may call my comments as rubbish. But I though giving an honest opinion will help both LOR and Submitters. :)

Just my 2 cents.

Regards,
Neo

Greenguy

2007-08-18, 08:59 AM

Too much free porn...In general? Or the number of pics required for a free site?

...Some of the webmasters who wants to be in GreenGuys good book may call my comments as rubbish. But I though giving an honest opinion will help both LOR and Submitters. :)...I want no one in my good book - my goal here is to hopefully find a happy middle ground where everyone is happy :)

ponygirl

2007-08-18, 10:38 AM

as a submitter, there's a couple of small things that annoy me:

- I understand the need for image verification. but pleeeeeze make sure they're legible. I hate having to go back 2 or 3 times to try again, especially if when I go back the stuff I've already filled in is gone :( (although I may just need stronger glasses :D)

- I'd like to see more LLs put on their rules they'd accept longer titles, maybe 4-5 words. Many times I've had great titles with an extra little word & not used it because quite a few of the LLs I sub to specify only 3. I know I may get away with more if they're little words, but I don't try because I'm an LL owner too, and I hate it myself when submitters try to get away with shit, even when it's little shit :D

Most of the basic rules are pretty much across the board and aren't too tough to live with, although I wouldn't mind seeing 4 links out per page allowed.

other than that, I can't say anything else really bothers me. I've adapted to the pic rule by using mostly movies lol, and don't sub to too many LLs that it's that much of a pita to grab a new recip.

johnnybg

2007-08-18, 11:02 AM

In general? Or the number of pics required for a free site?

I want no one in my good book - my goal here is to hopefully find a happy middle ground where everyone is happy :)

Didn't really wanted to elaborate, since it's been discussed in lengths on every adult webmaster board and their owners mothers boards, too.

Free content requirements for LLs and TGPs are the main contributors to overwhelming amount of free adult content. So, it's the same issue (general AND local).

I'm not counting here the forums with stolen pics and movies hosted on free image hosting and rapidshare, P2P networks, fusker sites etc. If we complain about these ruining our biz - we should look at ourselves first.

When I look at your "side", I see that if you reduce content requirements to say 10 pics and 30 secs of movies - you WILL lose bookmarkers and traffic AND income. Thats not acceptable for you and neither for me as someone who gets traffic from your site.

Noting short of all LLs lowering the bar at the same time would remotely work. And I'm not sure that would work either. I remember TGP2.

So, |banghead| and I'm back to making some free sites.

ponygirl

2007-08-18, 11:14 AM

Free content requirements for LLs and TGPs are the main contributors to overwhelming amount of free adult content. So, it's the same issue (general AND local).

I'm not counting here the forums with stolen pics and movies hosted on free image hosting and rapidshare, P2P networks, fusker sites etc. If we complain about these ruining our biz - we should look at ourselves first.

this is something I've been thinking of too, and my thoughts are that with all of the 2nd stuff available out there (p2p, sharing etc) and our little 24 pics or 2 minutes of movies it's a wonder anyone comes to our LLs at all :D

We (freesites & LLs) are such a small drop in the bucket in the free porn market that I really don't think it matters if we have 24 pics or 50. It's all in the sales pitch, not the amount of content. You can get free stuff in so much quantity anywhere, anytime anymore.

that's just my opinion tho :D

edit to add: that's kind of tied into my previous post about having 4 links out - I'd actually like to see more content allowed (not required, mind you ;)) along with more links out per page, it would balance out nicely and I'd be willing to offer more content in exchange for more links. Maybe a ratio would be good, instead of a number. But again, it would have to be more than just one or two LL owners that went with it |loony|

4thaloveofdough

2007-08-18, 11:15 AM

My only complaint is the no mixing of hardcore/softcore content. I like to use softcore pics and then give a few hardcore pics as a teaser, or maybe make gallery 1 pics of the girl and gallery 2 pics of her having sex, but with LOR it's against the rules.

JustRobert

2007-08-18, 01:16 PM

As a submitter it was easier to self softcore/tease when mixed in with hardcore. But as an owner I understand why they get split into two different pages.

I do not mind the 12 pic rule per page. With all the new avenues for surfers holding onto to bookmarks and keeping traffic is difficult. So a little more content honestly does not hurt if you throw in a couple more tease pics.

Maybe cutting back to 10 pics per page but requiring 3 gallery pages, or more, instead may be better. Owners get more content for bookmarks/traffic and subbers have more advertising pages to sell with |couch|

Preacher

2007-08-18, 01:23 PM

Pony girl hit two nails on the head for my swing of the hammer.
as a submitter, there's a couple of small things that annoy me:

- I understand the need for image verification. but pleeeeeze make sure they're legible. I hate having to go back 2 or 3 times to try again, especially if when I go back the stuff I've already filled in is gone :( (although I may just need stronger glasses :D)
I strongly agree, especially being as it is possible to retain the information that was already placed in the fields if the image verification fails.

I'd like to see more LLs put on their rules they'd accept longer titles, maybe 4-5 words.
Yes, I would kill for five word titles to be generally accepted.

Other issues:
I'd love if sponsors could package content correctly. How hard would it be for them to optimize images correctly before they drop them in a zip file.

It's infuriating to me when sponsors gove out content sets for a niched site with only a handful of images/movies seconds that actually show that niche. I have a sponsor that is anal themed, and they release 5 movies per scene, and only 1 of the movies has anal in it... What the fuck am I going to do with that?

I'm not seeing anywhere near the same SE traffic as I used to, to my freesites. So I'me building 3 more pages than I would have to if I was building galleries, and seeing less traffic -- maybe even in the long run.

As an owner...

Hardcore Partying sites!

Vidcaps.

People who respond in anger when their site gets rejected.

1 template wonders.

My recip being the only fucked up one on the index.

LowryBigwood

2007-08-18, 01:24 PM

Hey Greenie!

My only complaint for LOR is how strict your site is. I consider myself a decent/trusted freesite builder that follows the rules (most of the time). Yet, I seem to have the hardest damn time getting listed on LOR. So, basically I don't go out of my way to submit that many sites that way.

One thing that really annoys me about other LL's (not LOR) is when I go to submit and they have the submissions closed "temporarily" and it seems to stay that way for months or longer. Thank god for ssi recips... :)

SheepGuy

2007-08-18, 01:54 PM

Sites that don't accept AVS sites. Even worse, sites that accept AVS sites and tell the surfer what AVS your using, I don't bother submitting to them.
For free sites, everything Ponygirl said, and LL's that make their sites too hard to find, I don't bother submitting to them either.

2007-08-18, 02:36 PM

Those recip tables with the myriad of categories get to me sometimes. I mean, it doesn't take that long to build a recip table, but with 12-15 different list, all with different categories...after a few hours and a few beers my brain starts to shut down trying to figure out if two blondes screwing a black dude is threesome, interracial, hardcore, blondes...

I do appreciate all the traffic the list owners send and I can't complain too much, still I wish the whole submit process could be streamlined a bit. I've seen newbies get called lazy or whatever, but really for me I would just like to reduce the time I spend submitting so I would have more time to learn and build ..

Greenguy

2007-08-18, 02:43 PM

Keep'em coming |thumb

babymaker

2007-08-18, 06:08 PM

I just wish there was more variety and options, the standard 4-page freesite can get soooo boring, I understand it would be tough to make rules to accomodate a bunch of new options and changes, but even with different designers and content the sites all start to be the same, I feel for the reviewers :D

Maj. Stress

2007-08-18, 06:46 PM

- I understand the need for image verification. but pleeeeeze make sure they're legible. I hate having to go back 2 or 3 times to try again, especially if when I go back the stuff I've already filled in is gone :( (although I may just need stronger glasses :D)

Another vote for that one. I hate taking 20 color blind test when I submit and the case sensetive o0OlI stuff. Make em numbers or letters and non case sensetive.

24 hour limit on submits. I hate em. Why not 23 for those of us that have (or had) a regular routine. As it is now I just take a day a week off from subimtting and just submit whenever.

Having a resubmit count as your one submit for the day (if it's something minor) penisbot has a real nice system for handling this. :)

Simon

2007-08-18, 07:05 PM

One thing I'd love to see Link Lists do (and TGPs/MGPs, etc for that matter), would be to add a new rule. One that says we'll decline your submission if the contents of your free site or gallery is too likely to allow the surfer to get off.

Yeah, I know that'd be a hard one to judge, since surfers get off to all kinds of things. But seriously, when you see some free sites and galleries, can't you tell just looking at them that for that particular niche, the content is all most surfers are going to need to get off?

I don't have a solution. I just know that every time a surfers gets off looking at the content in a free site (or gallery), that's one surfer who is very unlikely to buy a paysite membership right now.

Toby

2007-08-18, 07:45 PM

As an owner...

Hardcore Partying sites!
Thank-you! I get slammed with that one too.

People who respond in anger when their site gets rejected.
I easily solved that one. I don't send rejection notices.

ponygirl

2007-08-18, 08:39 PM

24 hour limit on submits. I hate em. Why not 23 for those of us that have (or had) a regular routine. As it is now I just take a day a week off from subimtting and just submit whenever.
oh, that's a good one. I never used to find myself being able to submit every day but lately I've streamlined things to the point where it doesn't seem impossible :)

2 subs/day or maybe a preferred submitter list who can sub 2x/day would be cool too.

oldbrad

2007-08-18, 09:39 PM

Same as some others, i hate category links and trying to change them out for each niche.

The 24 hour rule would be awesome if it just was a flat 24 hour window, from midnight to midnight, as opposed to an exact 24 hours from each submit. That way a person can submit anytime during the day. 11:50 one night, then 2 am the next day but have to wait til after midnight the next day to go again.

Strictly as a submitter i hate month long or longer waits to be listed. Some of the large sites is stricty a back log, but on some smaller ones it seems to just be from putting them on the back burner.

The form codes being 8 digits long and being hard to read is a pain as well as sites banning the use of nofollows on sponsor codes.

Brad

kane

2007-08-18, 09:47 PM

I have a few.

First, LL sites that don't understand the content. I have made non-nude/tease types of sites and been rejected for not showing enough nudity. Teasing and not showing nudity the point of the whole site. I have also made voyeur and amateur sites where to quality of the pics/movies wasn't top notch and have gotten rejected for low quality content. The point of many voyeur and amateur sites is that they are supposed to be lower quality to reflect the real/taboo nature of the niche.

Second, like someone else said, the 24 hour rule. I understand it it fully, LL's don't want to get flooded, but what ends up happening is that on Monday I start my submissions at 1pm, I have to wait until 2pm on tues then 3pm on wed and by Friday or Saturday it is 5 or 6pm when I'm submitting and at that hour I should be drinking beer somewhere :). 22 or 23 hours would let me start my submits at 1pm and finish them by 2pm then I could do them at the same time the next day.

Those are my only real complaints. Otherwise I am cool.

Lemmy

2007-08-18, 11:22 PM

It seems to me that the whole LL/freesite model is drifting towards providing the surfer with more and more free porn of better and better quality that is becoming easier and easier to find.

The definition of a freesite is becoming narrower, the list of don'ts is getting longer. For the WM interested in making the most of it, it is becoming harder to make unique designs each and every day. I haven't received a template rejection...yet.

How 'bout loosening up a little on site structure and content requirements? What's wrong with a linear site? What's the harm in a few "semi-blind" links as long as you're not downright tricking the surfer? What about a benign console? Pics on html pages with banners?

It's been said more times then I care to remember on this board that we should tease the surfer just enough to take out the plastic, not enough to get him off. Just recently I was rejected because I didn't have 5 movies on each page (which was fair enough because it was right there in the rules). But still it's ridiculous. 10 movies to a freesite, 1000s of freesites listed. Small wonder conversions are dropping.

The way things are progressing we might as well soon visit the surfers at home and jerk them off ourselves.

Oh yeah, I too hate hardcore party sites, impossible-to-read image verifications and people who don't send rejection e-mails.

bDok

2007-08-18, 11:23 PM

The 24 rule bugs be as well. Make it daily. Just list the time at which it resets. Cause it sucks to have to maybe have a slow day getting one out maybe early in the week then every day after that you are having to wait to submit. Until basically you have to go a day with out submitting to one just to get back on a decent schedule.

bluemoney

2007-08-19, 12:41 AM

I wish more people who are on the message boards would use that same nick when submitting.

Just makes sense to me but as always, "what the fuck do I know".

Mr Spock

2007-08-19, 01:37 AM

- I understand the need for image verification. but pleeeeeze make sure they're legible. I hate having to go back 2 or 3 times to try again, especially if when I go back the stuff I've already filled in is gone (although I may just need stronger glasses )

This one really gets to me |banghead|

Category recips - do they still add value from a SEO perspective. I understand the need to filter traffic, but are category recip links not canceled out when calculating PR. What about FS linking to LL index and LL linking from category page to FS - would that not transfer more link juice, plus it involves less work:D , just a thought.

LL who demand to be on the same recip table as the big boys

All the rules/measures designated to combat cheaters - life would be a lot better without all the cheaters

kane

2007-08-19, 03:55 AM

I thought of another one.

You have 2257 info on your site/gallery and the LL's script gives you an error saying that you have to have 2257 info on the page. I have it, their script just doesn't see it.

Receptor

2007-08-19, 03:59 AM

I hate micro niche recips. Like someone above said, sometimes it's hard to figure where would your FS fit. And that goes out to all LL owners, not just Greenie. Just go with general recip, it's really easier for us.

Also I don't like to wait for a month to get listed on a LL, but I can imagine that it can be pain in the ass to keep up with reviews. But we try to make our money with FSs, so I cannot afford to wait a month to see my site on a LL.

And of course, verification images. Sometimes I wonder if I'm blind or am I just so stupid that I cannot see the difference between "I and l".

CrazySy

2007-08-19, 07:21 AM

These do not apply to LOR but I am going to post it anyway, knowing many owners will read this thread :D

I DO NOT submit to:

1- Link lists that don't give me direct link to me freesite by a) using a script to send the surfer to my site. b) sending a surfer to a review page with the same name as my site. I know you take your time to write long description for my freesite, but I DO NOT appreciate when my site's review surrounded with links to the same niche paysites as the ones I am trying to sell with my freesite. That's just lame. I won't mind to submit to those link lists as long as their are fine with me using the same methods for linking back to them.

2- Link lists with back log, come on man.... six months or even over one year behind? Find a better hobby.

3- Link lists that put a link to a paysite review page, their blogs and such pages in their recip link.

4- Link lists that have a rule for "NO BLIND LINKS", yet their own LL is filled with blind camsites thumbnail type ads with a "Click Here to Chat With Her Now!" text to go with it, practice what you preach!

5- Link lists which even get me confused as how the fuck to get to the freesites.

6- Link lists that require to be grouped with OTHER big link lists. You want to be grouped with them? send me the same traffic as they do and I'll make sure to put you there. I don't care about what the owners say about their traffic, I care about what my stat says!

I have no problem with rules and I might ask questions about certain rules, but I never question the rule! I can either adjust my site building style to match the rules, or simply drop the LL and move on. I also have no problem with more content as I have mentioned before in another thread, and niche recips (I am not sure if it's a benefit but if that's what you want, then that's what you get)

Just my 2 cents

Greenguy

2007-08-19, 07:46 AM

This is great stuff - keep posting |thumb

ladydesigner

2007-08-19, 08:11 AM

As a free site builder and LL owner, I guess for me the thing that irritates me (and takes up most of my time building sites) is getting all the niche recip links. I know I sound like a hypocrite because I just added new categories AND new recips at both my LL's BUT I'm seriously starting to think that a general recip for ALL LL's would save time for the free site builder and just might help us all with SE traffic.

I feel caught in the middle because like most said, I also hate the fuzzy hard to read image verification but yet one of my LL's uses it because of all the cheaters. I feel like I've added so many rules over the last year to my submit pages that it's just crazy to think every submitter is reading them. I'm not the freakin porn police but feel like it sometimes.

We're all here to make money and unless there's a massive change starting at the top with the biggest LL's (and the rest of us follow), things will only continue to go down hill.

Tekster

2007-08-19, 09:13 AM

1. Hard to read image verification
2. 24 hr submit limit - make it a daily limit like Monday, Tuesday ....
3. Niche recip links - time consuming

Not for LOR but I think LL with a big backlog should post something on the submit page as to the fact that they are behind, or on vacation for a week, or two... Not receiving any approved or rejected emails, at least one I think should be sent out, just like LOR or even CuntMaster (sends only rejection - no email you know your site is listed).

Licker4U

2007-08-20, 02:46 AM

Definitely a 24 hour window for submits would be great! Midnight to midnight would work for me.

And puuuuleaze, if any link list script sends an e-mail that my submission was received, please, please turn that feature off! After I hit the submit button the next page says my submission was received! It's redundant to send me an e-mail saying the same thing. I submit to 45 link lists and after submitting I have to go and delete 30 or so e-mails that tell me what I already know, that my submission was received. All I want is an acceptance/rejection e-mail, and if you have a heart, a reason for rejection. If it's something minor, like I put the wrong recip, let me re-submit that same day and not deny the submission because I've already submitted in the last 24 hours. (Most allow a re-submission that day but I've run across a few that don't)

And for you holier-than-thou-my-shit-doesn't-stink link lists that won't list sites because you don't like the recip grouping, go suck an egg. Yeah, I've kissed you ass and moved things around to get listed, but it sucks. I hate you and I hope the bird of paradise molt's in your cornflakes.

One more thing, if a clickable image has I'llsuckyourdickbecauseIloveit.COM on it, it's NOT a clickable thumb. It's a sponsor provided image that I've used in place of a banner. I don't think any surfer is going to see that clickable image with the site name on it and think clicking it will give them a larger image to look at. Cookie cutter banners from sponsors are boring so I like to use an image instead.

I know it will never happen but JS offers sooooo much for free sites that can make them stand out and grab the surfers attention and get away from the tedium of the normal 4 page free site. Maybe a trusted submitter account where JS is allowed? If a trusted submitter ever uses JS for anything shady, ban them for life with no appeals.

I'm drunk so I'm going to bed...

oldbrad

2007-08-20, 03:15 AM

"One more thing, if a clickable image has I'llsuckyourdickbecauseIloveit.COM on it, it's NOT a clickable thumb. It's a sponsor provided image that I've used in place of a banner"

That can be tricky. Because alot of sponsor content has watermarks or the sites name on it, so if it looks like a thumb and just has the address on it i can see the problem.

I agree about the banners though. I make alot of my own by using thumbs, but i use like 4 or five shrunk down and placed in layers on a larger image, then place the sites name over several of the images in big font across the bottom to make no mistake of them being a banner and not thumbs. Doing this i haven't had any issues.

Brad

SheepGuy

2007-08-20, 03:33 AM

Hee Hee! In Vino Veritas ;)
I totally agree about JS. I mean, jeeze, no counters because they use JS?
No iframes for my best selling sponsor beacause they use JS? They use it because that's the best way to SELL their service and make both of us money!

No JS seriously cramps my style and cuts my income from what it could be. When you're converting at 1/400 in a bad week and you can't use the most effective ads on freesites it sucks.

Licker4U

2007-08-20, 09:56 AM

Hee Hee! In Vino Veritas ;)
I totally agree about JS. I mean, jeeze, no counters because they use JS?

I totally forgot about the counters. I have a little script I got from Tom at TNB years ago that tells me for my sites that were found via a SE what word or phrase was used to get to my site, and it gives this info for every site that was accessed via SE's. Awstats just compiles a listing if words/phrases but doesn't tell which sites were found with which phrases. |crazy|

Useless

2007-08-20, 10:00 AM

One more thing, if a clickable image has I'llsuckyourdickbecauseIloveit.COM on it, it's NOT a clickable thumb. It's a sponsor provided image that I've used in place of a banner. I don't think any surfer is going to see that clickable image with the site name on it and think clicking it will give them a larger image to look at. Cookie cutter banners from sponsors are boring so I like to use an image instead.Trey -if you went out of your way to make them LOOK LIKE BANNERS, it wouldn't be an issue. Very few people have ever been rejected for blind links by me. I don't judge linked text all that harshly. Pics are another deal because surfers are coming to your pages to click on pics. If you take a sponsor pick and merely print the domain in the corner in a small font - then it's blind as all hell. Use larger fonts. Print more than the domain name. Don't bury it in the corner.

JustRobert

2007-08-20, 11:52 AM

The blind link one as Licker4U has stated is a bit annoying (rejection wise) to me as well though I totally understand UW statement and how hard would of it been for me to just add an extra 3 line blurb on the image.

But honestly, how bad would it be for your surfer to click on that thinking its an image as long as he can hit the back button and come back with no problems.

Which leads into, I would rather have my surfer click the above and come back then click on a banner that states exactly where they are going only to be bent over and F'd by malicious back button redirects!

I have mentioned this before but more programs are doing this. You have to let the sponsors page load completely. So submitters check your sponsor. I understand you can get $35 a sale compared to $25 for their no pop link but unless your ratio is 1:5 or better you are probably loosing money because you have completely lost the surfer. The malicious redirects are usually going to full page AFF ads, which means no credit for affiliate, with no way of the surfer returning to your site or the LinkLists. Shit, some of them even manipulate other windows so when I am reviewing not only does it completely wipe out your site in a new window it screws with my admin so that I have to pull it back up and sign back in. That one pisses me off |banghead|

If you think about it, why would a surfer ever click on a link or banner to that site/program again if they were just F'd by them. It does not create trust between that site/program and a possible consumer. Please come inside my strore so we can beat you with a bat if you do not buy from us. |huh This is worse than a blind link to me IMO.

Just to make myself clear, I do not care if it has a pop up that with a click of the back button returns them to where they originated. That is okay by me.

Licker4U

2007-08-20, 04:58 PM

Trey -if you went out of your way to make them LOOK LIKE BANNERS, it wouldn't be an issue.

I'm lazy |jester| It has nothing to do with going out of my way, it's really no biggie adding text to an image. Some times I just forget to put that extra text on the images and as you know, I usually do (add text) Wait till you're an old fuck like me and you'll see your memory going to shit along with everything else that's supposed to be useful. |haha

koalaTalex

2007-08-20, 05:37 PM

All my challenges have been listed:

1) 24 hr time limit, how does anyone stick to a schedule when you always have to wait over 24 hrs? Midnight to Midnight is perfect!

2) Confirmation codes I can't read and have to go back 3 times, even with a new monitor I still have to keep re-tying them. I want to let you know I am human too, just give me something easy to type in!

3) Recip Tables/Niche specific problems, I am thinking about re-vamping my system so I can stick LOR specific recip on each of his free sites but it is a lot of work for the few that have really specific niche categories.

4) LL on vacation or closed submissions for months at a time, I do everything manually so it is very difficult to remove a LL when this happens.

So to balance it out here are 4 things I like about Link lists:

1) Getting approved/declined emails and declined emails with reasons are so helpful.

2) I enjoy the amazing traffic that I get for free.

3) Getting emails from LL owners when recips change/categories update.

4) Did I mention the great free traffic? :D

tigermom

2007-08-21, 01:25 AM

Thank you for this thread, GG. I'm not sure where this is going, but always nice to vent a little :D

Well, most of it has been covered, but here are my pet peeves -

1. The 24 hours thing - I am all for a window. Even though I take long breaks from submitting, I would still like to be able to submit regularly when I do submit.

2. The annoying image verification thingies - I don't mind them there, just make them either all numbers or all letters (no caps), or whatever. Anything that won't make me try 3 times before I can get a submit through.

3. Category recips - especially where you have hundreds of categories to choose from and it gets very difficult to decide on the exact one. Then when you submit, you have to check which recip it was that you put in, otherwise you're not submitting to the right category of black lesbians with big natural boobs pictures or something.

4. Too many fields in the submit form - keeping them simple with url-title-description works best for me.

5. Demanding too much hardcore/explicit pics on a FS. I agree that if a FS is about bj's, it needs to actually show the bj, but I think allowing us a better ratio of tease to hardcore everyone could benefit.

Things I like -

1. Submitter accounts, where I can log in once and stay logged in. Saves on filling in the username/email. Also, if it gets my sites listed faster, all the better for it. I think it may help the reviewers as well, working with trusted submitters. As suggested before, maybe make things a bit more flexible for trusted submitters, such as allow frames and JS for dynamic ads to sponsors.

2. LL owners that make themselves available for communication, either via emails or on the board here. I think Greenie is a great example for that, and not just because he runs this place. He's always available via PM's as well. I hate it when I can't get through to ask a question.

annie_cash

2007-08-21, 04:37 PM

OK I have a couple of nice complaints...:)

*I dont like LL that doesnt let you know if they accept your sites or not. So you have to check BY HAND if your sites have been listed - you know, searching through all the links to see if you find a domain that belongs to you. I think the rejection/acceptance emails are great.

*I dont like the recips that doesnt look good in Firefox. Sometimes I have to take my time to change the codes to make them look nice but Im not an HTML expert and sometimes I dont even know how to do it.

*Another thing that pisses me off a little is when the "submition form" page doesnt have a link to the recips and its link is a blank one. The reason: I enter the webmaster page, grab a recip and then when I click on the "submission form" I just want to go there and fill the fields...BUT sometimes that link opens in a new window so the form page is in the last tag of Firefox. I lose time closing the old window and looking for the new one. Maybe im being picky but It kinda pisses me off. I rather webmaster pages that doesnt open in new windows

*Weird terminology. Sometimes LL use not so common words to name the categories and it could be a pain in the ass when you're trying to submit a site. An expample that just comes up to my mind: I think its fine to name a category "ebony" or "black" but itd be not so good to name that category "dark women" coz it would be really hard to find and it maight make you think that LL doesnt list that category at all.

Then Im not very happy by some other things that im sure have been already posted here like: blurry ilegible verification codes, the 24 hs thingy, etc

Greenguy

2007-08-21, 06:14 PM

I'm heading on a small vacation tomorrow, but I do want to leave this thread stuck here while I'm gone so that others can post.

So far, I personally think this thread is GREAT & long overdue. When I get back, I do want to look into a lot of these issues, especially those that I know I can handle on my end without effecting anyone else (like the 24 hour thing) Omn other issues, I will have to open a discussion with other Link Lists & then go from there.

My whole problem is that - as we all know - I can't do any of this on my own without causing a lot of problems for submitters as well as LL owners. And I don't mean for that to come off like I have a big head or I think I'm something special, because I'm not. But something that MrMaryLou said to me struck me as odd when we were talking about rules & reviewing: there are quality submitters that submit free sites to Smut Gremlins that have 20 total pics that no longer submit to me - and I have a problem with that. Not because I think I deserve to be submitted to, but because I think that submitter deserves to submit to both LL's (and as many others as possible) on an even level.

I'm not dumb enough to think that would ever come to fruition thru the entire internet - nor am I nuts enough to think that I could make it happen. But an open discussion about what upsets the regular free site submitters out there is a step in the right direction |thumb

So continue to post - even if someone already mentioned it - and we'll go from there |shake|

Preacher

2007-08-21, 06:42 PM

Being as it sounds like you're looking at the entire model and not just the little quips, let's look at this from a bit broader perspective.

When building, there really isn't anything more of a pain in the ass than the entire submission process. Forget the little things like image verification, just the entire act of submitting to multiple linklists, especially multiple mirrors takes too much time, causes too much concern over different rules or who is listed with whom and is so damned repatative it's bordering on insane.

Yeah, I know there are problems with submission software, but let me bring up Useless' brilliant idea of 1 hosted form that could submit to numerous linklists depending on the submitters choice of lists she would like to submit to and the submission just gets queued at different linklists for review.

I don't build mirrors, and I can tell you now, that if I could fill out one submit page instead of 12-20, I'd be a much happier camper.

To go a step further, and steal another one of Useless' brilliant ideas (I love setting him up for blame), being as recip collecting seems to be a fairly large complaint among submitters, we as LL owners could create pre-grouped recips that are generic enough to work for everyone.

Let's say a submitter wants to build an anal sex site, so she goes to whatever hosted domain we set up and he clicks on anal. There's a list of the participating partner linklists with radio buttons next to them. She picks let's say 12 linklists, hits build and the script builds an entire non-styled recip table based on recips the LL owners have already pre-approved. Copy and paste and the recip table is done, no recip harvesting or stripping out of styles.

Yes, these would be pretty significant changes, but just blame Useless! |goodnight

xxxjay

2007-08-21, 08:40 PM

sue-fl

2007-08-21, 09:53 PM

Some really good points have been brought up in this thread!

As a submitter I agree with the image verification. I always get them wrong at least once. Some LL's like Penis Bot and Wet Place have them but are really easy to see. The ones with ten letters with the lines thew them are the ones I mean. Even with my glasses on I can't get them right!

The LL owners who request to be grouped with certain LL's. I have had to stop submitting to some of them. I would end up with 20 plus receipts on one page if I didn't, and I don't think it looks right.

As a LL owner you can put what you want as a receipt to my site as long as my url is in there I'm happy. But where the are they getting my old receipt button??? I'm getting a lot of submitters that are using it and it's been over a year since I removed them |angry|

Other than that I'm happy with the ones I submit to at this point.

Linkster

2007-08-22, 12:10 AM

I would love to open up my submissions to everyone - I had the opportunity to check some of the submits that normally go straight to the trash bin that I never see today - and as usual there were the batches of group submitters and paid submitters that have been around forever although I see their number has increased amazingly.

I also noted some of my regular submitters(including at least one that has posted in this thread) have gone to autosubmitting without checking their work - damn shame that they got sucked into that game.

As a LL owner I would love to see category recips go completely away - they have no value any more in my eyes as the SEs certainly dont give any value to recips any more - and the only value to even having a recip at all is the little trickle of traffic that free sites send to the LL occasionally (those 1 hit every 3 days actually do add up over time) - but then that is something I will bring up in talking with other LLs.

The only reservations I have with Iframing and JS is the percentage of people that misused it when we did allow them - they are great for ads - but unfortunately they are so easy to fuck the surfers with - and that doesnt do anyone any good.

I have allowed the html pages for images in the past with one banner as Ive always felt it was better conversions and better for the SEs
Consoles on the other hand are again something that I just cant see happening on free sites - again its a surfer trust issue.
Someone mentioned the sponsors consoles - I guess there are some of us that still do check the links going out of the free sites for screwed up console chains and surfer tricks - and there are some LL owners that have bans on specific sponsors because of that - its an issue that a free site builder has to deal with when comparing listings and traffic to conversions.

papagmp

2007-08-22, 12:14 AM

Gwad I hate:

Category recips with html error in them. Come on people, learn to close your html tags! (and in the correct order)

Image verification that is posted on the page below the submit button.

LL's that burry free sites.

Any rule that seems absurd at 3 three in the morning when I just want to get the damn site submitted and go to bed.

No mixing of softcore and hardcore – shit, most hardcore sex scenes start out as softcore – or do we have to skip the foreplay and get straight to the fuckin?

tigermom

2007-08-22, 01:36 AM

One more thing, since someone mentioned categories - vague categories that leave me baffled, or categories that are too specific and don't leave room for anything more general. For example, in Porn Movie Links where you have big tits hardcore, big tits lesbians and big tits solo, but nothing for big tits, guy on girl softcore. Seems like a shame to have good freesites fall between the cracks for that.

Thing is, I make the freesite first, then check the categories. I would like to see LL's make room for every kind of FS that is legitimate, so that if we can't submit it to any specific category, maybe some catch-all category?

tigermom

2007-08-22, 01:37 AM

Oh, forgot to add - enjoy your holiday Greenie :)

Jel

2007-08-22, 01:38 AM

As a LL owner I would love to see category recips go completely away - they have no value any more in my eyes as the SEs certainly dont give any value to recips any more - and the only value to even having a recip at all is the little trickle of traffic that free sites send to the LL occasionally (those 1 hit every 3 days actually do add up over time) - but then that is something I will bring up in talking with other LLs.

Amen to that :) If anything, I feel it's detrimental to both parties having that straight A>B B>A link trade.

Personal LL gripes:

I don't really have any tbh. It's a simple part of the business, though the only thing I'd be pleased to see is some slight relaxation on what is considered a blind text link. And even that is only because I had to say something :D

stfuvt

2007-08-22, 02:49 AM

Simon

2007-08-22, 09:38 AM

I don't think the question should be so much what pisses me off...it is what is pissing the surfer off. Personally, I love all of the extra exposure to advertising that you get from a freesite vs. a tgp gallery.

A lot of surfers that grew up on TGPs may not have any tollerance for this.

I think that's something that doesn't get discussed enough (at least in public). While I like the link list paradigm, where the surfer is exposed to more advertising on the free site pages in order to view the porn pics/vids, I do think that this design is clearly more for the benefit of those trying to make sales, and not the benefit of the surfers.

Yes, I know that all the Good (white hat) link list owners are very concerned about taking care of the surfers, and do a lot to keep their own sites, and the free sites to which they link, as free from anything malicious as possible. We all know that loyal bookmarkers are valuable and we don't want to do anything to chase them away.

I'm wondering though...are we really doing enough to interest and keep them in the first place? Sure, a nice clean link list with tons of links to free porn is worth bookmarking for many surfers. But once surfers are aware of the variety of ways they can get to the porn of their choice, is the link list really going to be their 'favorite' place anymore?

Personally, I don't look for porn on link lists, and here's why: Too many damn clicks to get to the first pic in a series, or the first video clip.

Starting from when the surfer first decides he wants to look at some porn, he may need to hit the link list's warning page, then a main page, maybe then a category page and maybe a sub-niche from that page, then find a description that sounds like it might be something he'd like to see, then click that link, then another warning page with another search for the enter link, then a main page, then find the link to gallery one (not always easy) and click that link, and ...

...and yes, finally there --- and finally get to see that not only is this action sequence not exactly what he wanted to see, but the people in the pics aren't very interesting-looking to his particular taste or interests at the moment.

Sure, all he need to do at that point is go back to the link list page and try his luck again at picking a description that sounds like it just might lead to something he wants to see. Kind of like some weird form of porn gambling with the house stacking the odds against him though. But who knows, maybe the link list design is really for the porn surfers who love to gamble?

Either way, he's at least 5 pages/clicks from porn at the start, or maybe more if he goes through sub-category pages first.

Then, once he knows he's not interested in the pics in the first gallery, he may need to back out to the link list, which is another 3 back button clicks, or maybe he can close the free site gallery page and be back on the link list page. Either way, he's still at least 4 pages/clicks away from knowing if he's looking at porn he's interested again.

I think that whether a surfer grew up on TGP sites or not, many of them will have favorite places where they know they can easily, and with as few steps as possible, get to the specific kind of porn they're interested in seeing at the moment. And for some, that will mean the link list and free sites. But I think there are a lot of surfers who choose to hit TGP/MGP sites because they get a look at the action and the people involved in it before they waste another long sequence of clicks to take their first look again.

I don't have the solution to this (or maybe I just don't want to talk about it yet), but I think we have to come up with some ways to keep the surfer interested in all the clicks required if we want more of them to come back and play our game again day after day. Almost anyone can make money off the AOL-newbie traffic, but selling porn to the growing audience of surfers who've been on the Net awhile is another story.

Time for more coffee. Sorry about the long post if you didn't find it interesting.

:)

johnnybg

2007-08-22, 10:20 AM

I don't have the solution to this (or maybe I just don't want to talk about it yet), but I think we have to come up with some ways to keep the surfer interested in all the clicks required if we want more of them to come back and play our game again day after day. Almost anyone can make money off the AOL-newbie traffic, but selling porn to the growing audience of surfers who've been on the Net awhile is another story.

As usual, Simon has several great points in his post.

I believe that this thread might be about "rules that piss us off" or "recips gathering nightmare". But, it also might be about realization that LL/TGP model is somewhat outdated.

Before I go hide behind the couch, let me give you some of my points:
1. LL/TGP model is what? 10-15 years old?
2. Advertising on LLs/TGPs/FSs/Galleries is of the same age. (banners, text links)

I believe that LLs have to "speed up" selling porn. Surfers are used to quick navigation (social bookmarks, rss feeds, tags, personalization)

I tried to experiment a bit with my hub, added voting, commenting and tagging. What I saw from my (still young) experiment, people use tags a lot more than categories links. They also love to click on tag cloud thing. That might be an idea for link lists. Maybe Useless Warrior has some more valid input on this.

Other idea is to, instead of recips, we use Digg-style buttons for voting on free sites. For example, surfer might want to bookmark my free site on Link-o-Rama and clicks on [Add to Linkorama] button. Then he/she gets back to LOR, looks at bookmarked sites, etc.

Also, a RSS feed with newest free sites listed at LLs, with LLs own advertising might be good for bottom lines.

xxxjay

2007-08-22, 07:32 PM

I think that's something that doesn't get discussed enough (at least in public). While I like the link list paradigm, where the surfer is exposed to more advertising on the free site pages in order to view the porn pics/vids, I do think that this design is clearly more for the benefit of those trying to make sales, and not the benefit of the surfers.

Yes, I know that all the Good (white hat) link list owners are very concerned about taking care of the surfers, and do a lot to keep their own sites, and the free sites to which they link, as free from anything malicious as possible. We all know that loyal bookmarkers are valuable and we don't want to do anything to chase them away.

I'm wondering though...are we really doing enough to interest and keep them in the first place? Sure, a nice clean link list with tons of links to free porn is worth bookmarking for many surfers. But once surfers are aware of the variety of ways they can get to the porn of their choice, is the link list really going to be their 'favorite' place anymore?

Personally, I don't look for porn on link lists, and here's why: Too many damn clicks to get to the first pic in a series, or the first video clip.

Starting from when the surfer first decides he wants to look at some porn, he may need to hit the link list's warning page, then a main page, maybe then a category page and maybe a sub-niche from that page, then find a description that sounds like it might be something he'd like to see, then click that link, then another warning page with another search for the enter link, then a main page, then find the link to gallery one (not always easy) and click that link, and ...

...and yes, finally there --- and finally get to see that not only is this action sequence not exactly what he wanted to see, but the people in the pics aren't very interesting-looking to his particular taste or interests at the moment.

Sure, all he need to do at that point is go back to the link list page and try his luck again at picking a description that sounds like it just might lead to something he wants to see. Kind of like some weird form of porn gambling with the house stacking the odds against him though. But who knows, maybe the link list design is really for the porn surfers who love to gamble?

Either way, he's at least 5 pages/clicks from porn at the start, or maybe more if he goes through sub-category pages first.

Then, once he knows he's not interested in the pics in the first gallery, he may need to back out to the link list, which is another 3 back button clicks, or maybe he can close the free site gallery page and be back on the link list page. Either way, he's still at least 4 pages/clicks away from knowing if he's looking at porn he's interested again.

I think that whether a surfer grew up on TGP sites or not, many of them will have favorite places where they know they can easily, and with as few steps as possible, get to the specific kind of porn they're interested in seeing at the moment. And for some, that will mean the link list and free sites. But I think there are a lot of surfers who choose to hit TGP/MGP sites because they get a look at the action and the people involved in it before they waste another long sequence of clicks to take their first look again.

I don't have the solution to this (or maybe I just don't want to talk about it yet), but I think we have to come up with some ways to keep the surfer interested in all the clicks required if we want more of them to come back and play our game again day after day. Almost anyone can make money off the AOL-newbie traffic, but selling porn to the growing audience of surfers who've been on the Net awhile is another story.

Time for more coffee. Sorry about the long post if you didn't find it interesting.

:)

I tried to inovate the linklist some, but nobody really bit on it:

http://www.xxxpornmovielinks.com

What's different?

1. Everything is thumbed but still uses the freesite format, so it seemed more familiar to the tgp surfer:

http://www.xxxpornmovielinks.com/links/hardcore_movies.html (it seemed webmasters were too lazy to crop a thumb)

2. The category page link directly to the "menu" pages of each site:

http://www.xxxpornmovielinks.com/index.php?action=showCat&catdir=hardcore_movies.html&next=1 (thus bringing down the number of clicks to see the content)

3. The warning pages were still linked from the "details" pages:
http://www.xxxpornmovielinks.com/details/4643/ (so the warning pages were getting linkbacks and SE benifit)

I thought it was a good go-between hybrid for surfers and submitters, but (for the most part) people slept on it.

As much as I had to say it, I've never seen a crowd that fears inovation more than the linklist crown. What worked in 1999 is not going to keep working in 2009, even as much as we'd like it to.

I'm really happy Greenguy got this thread going...it's the best thread that had been on GG&J for some time.

Porn Junkie

2007-08-23, 03:26 AM

i'm going to have to agree that the die hard 24hr rule is frustrating. I got all my submit sites ready to submit as I type this but have to wait another 30 minutes before I can click submit and I want to go to bed. ... arg

Jel

2007-08-23, 06:41 AM

OK so I got one :)

Title of today's freesite: Amateur Interracial Lesbians - Of the 20 LLs I sub to, that title was too long for two of them. One I changed the title in the form to Amateur Interacial Lesbos (script auto-chopped the title), hopefully the reviewer will accept that as being close enough to the on-page title. The other stated no more than x amount of characters, but the sub went through with the original title so guessing that's a request rather than a set-in-stone rule.

A little thing, but enough to bug you when you have subbed to half the LLs and can't change the on page title :)

LowryBigwood

2007-08-23, 09:40 AM

I have another, more of a rant really.

When LL owners deny your freesite for having a recip on your page that doesn't exactly match what they want you using. When in reality... that link being different from the thousands of identical ones they have forced others to use is probably helping and not hurting the site. Go figure..

Lemmy

2007-08-23, 10:27 AM

ponygirl

2007-08-23, 11:05 AM

After thinking about it some, this thread is starting to scare me. Seems most of us are pissed at pretty much the same things and some of the solutions that have been mentioned are centralized submit sites where you can grab premade recip tables and submit to many sites with one click, more uniform rules etc etc.

I thought some of the beauty of the LL/freesite model was variety, but these suggestions would do the opposite and create more uniformity.
I have to agree with you here, I don't think it does any good to have everyone the same, and some of my gripes - longer titles, more flexibility with links out etc. are because I'd like to be able to add more variety to my own sites. With a more flexible freesite model, it would be easier to change templates around, make things look different and try new things in terms of visuals and marketing.

And how much trouble is it to grab the correct micro-micro-niche recip? Most of us probably submit to 4-5 categories at most on a regular basis. Grab the recip once and your done.

As for the 24-hour rule that many have, that's easy too. If you submit every day just push your schedule ahead by one minute the next day and you're good to go. You can submit daily for a long time without having to take a day off.

If it's too much trouble to find the correct recip on the 50 or so LLs that are worth submitting to (I inflated that number so my sites might be included) and managing your time, well, they're always hiring at Wal-Mart and McDonalds. It pays about the same as a mid-level adult webmaster and the hours are much better.

and here too. Really, the recip thing kind of bugs me. I'm sure my system isn't that different from most others - I have a master list of recips, both buttons & text, that I just plug on the page & arrange the way I want it. Then with each submit page open in my browser I cut & paste into the form fields. Most LLs will have some notice if they've changed anything, and if it's a recip I just go in, grab it & change it on my site on the fly, adding it to the master table as well. Takes maybe 5 minutes from grabbing to re-uploading, not even. Generally, LLs aren't changing or adding recips every day, so chances are you won't have to do that all the time. And it's only the one time, once you change your master table. I did it this way even when I was subbing mirrors, and it never really bugged me that much. Maybe that's because as an LL owner as well, I realize a lot of work goes into those recips.

Having said that, I've been making some changes too, and I may be moving to non-catogorized recips anyway. But just thought I'd throw that out there, because I really don't see it as a big problem personally, and as a submitter, I really don't expect everything handed to me on a silver platter.

I hope the Linklist model will be around for a long time, I always liked surfing them better. I think it attracts a different type of surfer, one that likes the buildup and anticipation more, likes the 'story' and natural progression of the freesite. If LLs were all the same, they'd be tgps :D

I'll shut up now, this has all been just my opinion and my big mouth |potleaf| :D

koalaTalex

2007-08-23, 01:42 PM

If it's too much trouble to find the correct recip on the 50 or so LLs that are worth submitting to (I inflated that number so my sites might be included) and managing your time, well, they're always hiring at Wal-Mart and McDonalds. It pays about the same as a mid-level adult webmaster and the hours are much better.

This is very true!|cry|

Allfetish

2007-08-24, 01:45 PM

It's a simple question that I don't think I've ever asked in public before now. I'm looking into making some changes with my Link Lists - some small, some major, some you'll never even notice. But I need feed back before I go any further.

So, what pisses you off as far as Free Sites & Link Lists?

Post about anything that's upsets you, from small things that annoy you to major problems that have you really pissed off. And, if you're angry with me, call my fat ass out! (but don't call anyone else out because I'm asking for it:))

Hey Greenie,

I think most surfers these days are looking for visual previews and want to be able to find things easier so this means more tags and better on site search engines. There is a balance with this, I know because "spent" surfers won't sign up to paysites....but something should change in this regard.

For webmasters:

- The submit only 1 site a day rule. It isn't 1999 anymore. This business is not easy. If someone is willing to work hard and put in the extra work each day, if possible let them submit more sites. It would be very hard for someone to make a living doing this just by submitting one site a day.

- Whois privacy, hosting bans, etc. If I want to hide my whois, it may have more to do with privacy implications involved in giving out my personal information than if I am a scammer. What if I would be willing to give you a phone number (or ICQ) in such a case in order to verify things instead of banning?

-Unlisted rules. Frustrating. No one wants to waste their time.

-Communication. Ideally people would at least be notified each time their site was rejected, and even better why.

I know it is tough to do all this. I used to have a linkslist myself and it ended up going dead. But these are some of the issues, and solutions would should be explored.

Allfetish

2007-08-24, 10:48 PM

Didn't really wanted to elaborate, since it's been discussed in lengths on every adult webmaster board and their owners mothers boards, too.

Free content requirements for LLs and TGPs are the main contributors to overwhelming amount of free adult content. So, it's the same issue (general AND local).

I'm not counting here the forums with stolen pics and movies hosted on free image hosting and rapidshare, P2P networks, fusker sites etc. If we complain about these ruining our biz - we should look at ourselves first.

When I look at your "side", I see that if you reduce content requirements to say 10 pics and 30 secs of movies - you WILL lose bookmarkers and traffic AND income. Thats not acceptable for you and neither for me as someone who gets traffic from your site.

Noting short of all LLs lowering the bar at the same time would remotely work. And I'm not sure that would work either. I remember TGP2.

So, |banghead| and I'm back to making some free sites.

I don't think LL and TGP have any of the blame anymore for too much free porn. Even though you don't want to talk about it, I think the rapidshare sites are definitely responsible for the mostly rising ratios.

Years ago I used to look at my stats and see forums sending me hundreds or even thousands of hits a day to my free sites by users linking to them themselves. Nowadays if I go on a forum and link directly to a gallery, even if it has 200 MB (!) of 1 minute clips in it -- all free -- the surfers will come on "What are you kidding? Don't post these little 1 minute clips! SPAM! SPAM!" and then soon I will get banned by the owner [you used ot be welcomed by the forum owners when you did this without going overboard]. They all expect 20 minute videos on rapidshare or megarotic now. You know things are bad when you can't even give the stuff away..... In no way are the linkslists and the TGPs responsible for this debacle anymore. As you hint, if they started going to 10 pictures per site, they would soon lose all their bookmarkers and again, they won't even be able to give the stuff away................

tigermom

2007-08-25, 01:13 AM

I don't think LL and TGP have any of the blame anymore for too much free porn. Even though you don't want to talk about it, I think the rapidshare sites are definitely responsible for the mostly rising ratios.

Years ago I used to look at my stats and see forums sending me hundreds or even thousands of hits a day to my free sites by users linking to them themselves. Nowadays if I go on a forum and link directly to a gallery, even if it has 200 MB (!) of 1 minute clips in it -- all free -- the surfers will come on "What are you kidding? Don't post these little 1 minute clips! SPAM! SPAM!" and then soon I will get banned by the owner [you used ot be welcomed by the forum owners when you did this without going overboard]. They all expect 20 minute videos on rapidshare or megarotic now. You know things are bad when you can't even give the stuff away..... In no way are the linkslists and the TGPs responsible for this debacle anymore. As you hint, if they started going to 10 pictures per site, they would soon lose all their bookmarkers and again, they won't even be able to give the stuff away................

That is sad. These forums should be reported for promoting stolen material though, IMO. I wonder if some sponsors who are being hurt by their stuff being circulated like this would ever sue.

tigermom

2007-08-25, 01:15 AM

As for the 24-hour rule that many have, that's easy too. If you submit every day just push your schedule ahead by one minute the next day and you're good to go. You can submit daily for a long time without having to take a day off.

While I agree with most of what you've said, and the general tone of your post (I don't think this should be made too easy, myself), I really don't get your one minute delay method. Submitting to 20 lists takes more than one minute, if this is your delay, you're bound to mess up on some LL's and hit the submit button too soon. One hour I can see, but one minute?

oldbrad

2007-08-25, 02:26 AM

I think he means just time the submits to the ones that have a 24 hour limit. If you submit to two sites sites that both have the time limit, then just keep track of those two and submit a minute or two later.

I only submit to one with the 24 hour rule and thats greenguy's, so it's easier for me to submit. I think the midnight to midnight time frame would work way better for the generally webmaster though.

Brad

Licker4U

2007-08-25, 05:37 AM

I think the midnight to midnight time frame would work way better for the generally webmaster though.

I agree (again). If I submit at 6:00 a.m today and this afternoon have a site ready to submit tomorrow, but I have to do things in my "non-porn" life in the morning and have to leave at 6:00 a.m. I can't submit at 5:30 so I'm screwed. I submit when I get back at 10:00 a.m. then the next day I have to wait until 10:00 to start submitting. Every day it gets worse.

I hope link list owners see this thread and implement some of the ideas mentioned. |thumb

Lemmy

2007-08-25, 10:44 AM

While I agree with most of what you've said, and the general tone of your post (I don't think this should be made too easy, myself), I really don't get your one minute delay method. Submitting to 20 lists takes more than one minute, if this is your delay, you're bound to mess up on some LL's and hit the submit button too soon. One hour I can see, but one minute?Believe me it works just fine, I do it all the time. On Monday if you start submitting 12:01, start 12:02 on Tuesday. 24 hours and 1 minute will have elapsed.

If you want to be 100% certain of no overlap push your schedule ahead by 5 minutes every day. One month later you'll start your submits start at 2:30.

How many of us can say we go 30 days straight without missing a day of submission?

LowryBigwood

2007-08-25, 11:47 AM

How many of us can say we go 30 days straight without missing a day of submission?

Definetely not me. |waves|

However, I also think 1 minute is a bit much for myself. 5 minutes would probably work for me as I know submitting to 20 LL's per site each day, I can't get my site submitted to all of them in the exact same amount of time each day. However, I think that LL owners could easily set this rule to around 20 hours or even do away with the rule all together and make things a bit better.

I do not personally see a reason to set a rule on amount of subs a linklist gets (within reason). They are either quality sites or they're junk or maybe somewhere in between. You list it or you don't.

papagmp

2007-08-27, 12:18 AM

target="blank" on recip and submit pages

Hell, how many browser windows do you think I need open?

Linkster

2007-08-27, 08:06 AM

That is sad. These forums should be reported for promoting stolen material though, IMO. I wonder if some sponsors who are being hurt by their stuff being circulated like this would ever sue.

You would be surprised at how many sponsors are the ones posting this material - same as the old password sites where sponsors used to put up "stolen passwords" and link them to special areas of their paysites to get more conversions - heck most of the password sharing sites used to be owned by sponsors :)

HarryM

2007-08-27, 08:22 AM

target="blank" on recip and submit pages

Hell, how many browser windows do you think I need open?

yeah for sure.. I think webmasters know how to open a new window if they want one.

Simon

2007-08-27, 08:25 AM

:D

- same as the old password sites where sponsors used to put up "stolen passwords" and link them to special areas of their paysites to get more conversions -

When did this stop working..?

|jester|

Greenguy

2007-08-27, 11:30 AM

I see you've all been busy while I was gone :)

I'll catch up on this tomorrow.....

Ms Naughty

2007-08-27, 08:26 PM

I've been reading this thread with interest, wondering if I should post my thoughts (which are a bit jumbled). I've decided to jump in.

I don't make a lot of free sites anymore and when I do I find it to be a chore. I feel like I'm jumping through a lot of hoops that weren't there when I started. Yes, I remember the old days (which, for me, was in 2000) and it's hard not to get nostalgic.

I feel like the free site format has calcified, and that's a problem. There's no room for originality, for coming up with different ways to entice a surfer to buy. The strict format of four pages and only three outlinks per page means that making free sites is a "factory" process, one that suits the reviewer rather than the builder or the surfer. This, of course, reflects that the linklists have more power than the submitter.

(And I suspect this knowledge is why every man and his dog (and me) has now opened a linklist).

I have no solutions, of course. I fully understand why all the rules have evolved and the current situation with a million cheaters bombarding linklists, but I just feel the need to express a frustration at the stagnation that's occurred.

The other thing I think about is how Google's changes affect the linklist world. The reciprocal link thing is not working anymore. The idea that a single freesite might receive search engine traffic seems pie-in-the-sky sometimes. The major linklists get all the SE traffic because they're older and have built up more one-way links. So is there a new way to link and be listed that will benefit both parties? I have no idea.

Like others I don't like the hype surrounding the term "Web 2.0" but it's worth discussing where linklists and freesites fit in with blogs, social networking sites, video sharing and user-generated content.

Regina Lynn at Wired makes a really good point in this article:
http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/commentary/sexdrive/2007/08/sexdrive_0809
Porn is hamstrung when it comes to newer web technology because of two things - the 2257 laws and a desire not to lose control of copyrighted material.

All the new Web 2.0 thingies are about getting stuff for free. Some days I feel like hiding under my desk because I worry that the subscription model is old hat (it's not, of course, that why we still make money). Linklists are still about giving stuff away for free but, as has been mentioned before, it's not instant.

I'm not sure where I'm going with any of this, it's off the top of my head. I'll just post it anyway, might add something later.

HowlingWulf

2007-08-28, 11:42 AM

Just a quick addition to what has already been said here. Sometimes you have a FS that matches several categories, or doesn't match any one category perfectly, so you try to pick the best fit possible. Sometimes the LL owner disagrees, which is fine, and you get the rejection: Wrong Category. Unfortunately I already gave my best guess so chances are slim my next guess will match the LL owner's thoughts. If he is willing to send a 'Recommended Category: XYZ' response with the denial that would help a ton.

Mr Exotic

2007-08-28, 12:48 PM

I have to say I'm actually fairly happy with the current set up and relationship between link lists and free sites. Yeah the 24 hour thing can be terribly annoying, the impossible to read verification image things are a big pain in the ass, but overall I am happy with how things work. I mean geez, a little work and effort should be expected. This aint hard stuff, this is easy shit, some of the mundane things just take a little time and effort. Maybe since I've probably made and submitted 400-500 free sites in the last 1.5-2 years it comes as second nature to me and is programmed into my little brain. Making and submitting free sites and running my link list is my job and how I put food in my kid's mouths and I must say I am happy with things. Just like Lemmy said, if its too difficult or too much of a pain in the ass, Walmart is always hiring, but I've fucking worked at Walmart before, and I must say the work, the hours and pay per hour are much much better playing the free site game as it is currently set up.

papagmp

2007-08-28, 12:54 PM

Greenguy

2007-09-04, 10:37 AM

SheepGuy

2007-09-04, 12:40 PM

Looks about right to me GG, most things on the list I don't ave a problem with, but I'll be in a on a few topics there :D

Maj. Stress

2007-09-04, 01:49 PM

Allowing Java Script

How about allowing Flash too? I used it for my warning text on some sites but started getting declined at a few places for using it.

Greenguy

2007-09-04, 02:15 PM

How about allowing Flash too? I used it for my warning text on some sites but started getting declined at a few places for using it.I edited my list :)

***

Just a heads up - I want to leave this as is for 24 hours so that everyone can take a look & leave some last comments before I go onto step 2 (which came to me this morning - lol)

I also have to say that there are a few things that no one mentioned that I thought for sure were "dumb rules" - but we shall see :)

papagmp

2007-09-04, 07:57 PM

I would like to have the LL provide good clean text recips along with the table/graphic ones. Let me link a style sheet and I can make them look good on any site in a matter of seconds.

I would like to host my affiliate’s sites – can’t figure why this is a problem but may have been in the past.

kane

2007-09-06, 05:41 AM

OK - before I go any further, these are the tings I want to get some threads going on as far as possible changes:
24 hour submit rule
Accept AVS sites
Allow mixing soft & hardcore content
Allow multiple submtis per day
Allowing Java Script & Flash
Counters
Decrease the minimum number of pics
Image Verification too hard to read
Increase the number of ads/banners/links per page
More options instead of the standard 4 page free site
Multiple Links In Recip Code
Niche Specific Recips - getting rid of them as well as not rejecting for using the wrong one
Pics on html pages
Private Whois
Recip Grouping
Sending out rejection emails
Shorter backlog - post your backlog
Templates
the number of words/characters you can use in the title and/or description

Am I missing anything?

The one thing I might add that I think I forgot to mention in the thread is maybe allowing mixed content on a site. For example a person could have a picture gallery and a few movie clips on a site instead just one or the other. Some of my sites in the past have galleries with 12 pics on them and then a short 10 second teaser movie. It would be cool to be able to get those listed.

thanks

Jel

2007-09-07, 02:24 AM

Sorta ties in with pics on a html page really, but embedded movies on a html page? Downside is those not using IE can't see them without a plugin, but it's a prompt & an easy grab, and while maybe not making a huge difference, it might make enough to make a few more sales (plus making the folder wider).

xxxjay

2007-09-07, 04:46 AM

I edited my list :)

***

Just a heads up - I want to leave this as is for 24 hours so that everyone can take a look & leave some last comments before I go onto step 2 (which came to me this morning - lol)

I also have to say that there are a few things that no one mentioned that I thought for sure were "dumb rules" - but we shall see :)

What are some of the major changes you were thinking about at the begining of the thread?

I see a lot about submissions here, don't we care about what is going to make a linklist more appealing to a surfer? With was many links that are traded between linklists big and small, it seems we could be looking a little more about how to keep our business model relevant.

Or am I missing something?

Jel

2007-09-07, 05:19 AM

What are some of the major changes you were thinking about at the begining of the thread?

I see a lot about submissions here, don't we care about what is going to make a linklist more appealing to a surfer? With was many links that are traded between linklists big and small, it seems we could be looking a little more about how to keep our business model relevant.

Or am I missing something?

Problem is most of us aren't surfers (any more), so it's going to be swayed to webmaster POVs rather than surfers. The only way to find out what is more appealing to the surfer is to ask them, and 90% (obviously a guesstimate) are going to say 'more free pics', 'longer free movies' etc. Great for bookmarkers, shit for business.

Greenguy

2007-09-07, 09:33 AM

Jay - this thread really isn't about how to make Link Lists better, it's about how to make the submitter a little more happy.

Anyone that runs a Link List pretty much has the control to make to do whatever they want to the Link List itself as far as making the surfer more happy, but I'm not looking into any of that in this thread - just what's been pissing off my submitters :)

Greenguy

2007-09-07, 09:34 AM

Oops - almost forgot - I should have a new thread about all of this on Monday after I work a couple things out in my head |loony|

xxxjay

2007-09-08, 12:02 AM

tyre71

2007-09-08, 03:02 PM

It would be nice to be able to list more than one site a day. But than that opens a whole new set of problems for ya. I imagine you would have to look closer at templates and what categories are submitted to. Otherwise you could have a bunch of identical looking sites filling up a handful of categories by a handful of webmasters. And of course it would be more work for you.

wolfie

2007-09-08, 11:23 PM

Well, personally I like the comments I get from the link lists reviewers.
..reasons to get declined etc. Very educational!
ie. DD and GG gave excellent hints in some years agou when I started to post more actively. Sadly, I'm not able to post DD anymore but that was fully my mistake.

One more thing I hate is Usefully Scripts BL. This because I have some domains I bought in start of 2000 and then those was hosted in a "crappy place" so I got my self in the list. Now I have no way to get away from the list.

bluebrit

2007-09-14, 01:29 AM

This is a great thread and I’m glad greenie started it. I've been away for a while so coming back to see this has made for an interesting read both as a submitter and as a new LL owner. I can think of a few things that bug me from both sides, most of which have been mentioned already so I’ll pass on commenting on the rights and wrongs of LL and FS submitting.

I think though that the FS itself needs updating before major changes to LL's take place. This is a hard one and needs agreement across the board but I think more pages would be better (not necessarily more content) where adverts and more text can give the surfer more chances to click a sponsor link.

For myself I am considering an experiment where I would add a page to my LL that will allow what you could call a super FS. These if I go ahead will allow submitters to build sites with as many pages as they like with 4 ads to a page and multiple content types on the FS as long as the content all relates to the same category. Example: bdsm super sites could have bondage on one page, master slave on another, lesbian domination on another and fisting on another. It’s all a form of bdsm and could therefore fit in easily and yes I know you can say these are different cats but underlying that they are all bdsm in nature. The one rule I would keep here is that the content should all come from the same sponsor. The beauty of this is that the surfer sees multiple sets of pictures or movie clips from the sponsor giving them a better idea of whether or not they want to buy into it in the first place without numerous clicks back and forth looking for more content.

This may not work for all niches and in certain cases won't work at all where the surfer wants to see one thing and on thing only but its worth considering as the content they want will still be a part of the super site and does let the surfer see what else is on offer.

Maybe this isn't the kind of post that should appear here but I think it’s not so much a case of what’s wrong, so much as what needs to be done to make LL and FS look new. Surfers need to see changes in the model used to bring them back from the likes of pornotube where they get way too much free porn already without buying a membership.

One last thing. I don’t want to see JS on FS. JS is way to easy to mess with once in place and before you know it a simple JS on a FS could have more repercussions than I care to think of.

The above is just an idea to kick around and I hope you all see this as constructive because I really think the basic layout of the FS needs to change, if not like this then in some way to make them popular to surfers again.

Regards to all |thumb