Do you think this business is recession resistant?

[Jim]

With Home Loans taking a dump and the 2nd largest Mortgage company looking like it is doing the same, I think we may be looking at something coming that we have never seen in this business.

A few weeks ago, Allen Greenspan said we are heading for a recession. Shortly after that, he said, we "may be" heading for a recession.

Most people know I am far from Chicken Little. But, what happens to adult entertainment if a full blown recession hits the US? Wouldn't most online paysites, adult or otherwise, be the first cut out of someone's budget?

In this case, I would be very happy to be wrong.

[Linkster]

Jim - I think that you would find that sales would increase - the "mental depression" that comes along with that type of economic change usually increases peoples staying at home and finding online stuff to do - very similar to the boosts you see from singles around the holidays

You should have seen a big drop back when oil prices skyrocketed if the case you are thinking was going to happen - and it actually increased

Throughout the last 100 years or so - entertainment has always blossomed when hit by recessions - of course we're just a part of that entire market but I think it would be a boon

[Jim]

I do hope you are right Linkster.

I have always said that our business is recession proof when I talk to people outside. But, who the hell really knows?

[SheepGuy]

I'm not quite so optimistic. Having been through a bankruptcy, the first thing that disappeared was my credit card. If a lot of porn buyers go bankrupt they will be unable to buy porn the easiest way and will likely just settle for what everyone is giving away for free.

[Simon]

Who the hell really knows is probably closest to the truth, but I have to agree with Linkster. Porn may not be recession proof, but I'd bet that any lost members will be offset by new signups from people cutting back on other things but compensating with more porn. Or at least that's what we've been seeing happen everytime there's been a recession-like scare for the last 10+ years. I think it's related to the reason why you always see pawn shops and liquor stores close together.

I'd add that general porn signups may see more of a decline, while fetish niches and other "need not want" porn signups will increase.

But who the hell knows.

[tickler]

The demographics for porn buyers(see the $97billion thread) seem to be mainly in the upper income levels. These people would tend to be more steady income wise, and probably less likely to be involved with high ratio mortgages.

As Linster said, I figure the lower income groups may also increase their porn buying somewhat.

[plateman]

I think we been and still in a reccession

I see my traffic numbers go up and see a decline in my income

its taking more traffic to make the same is what I am seeing, and other webmasters I've asked see the same, unless it's us lower traffic ones who are hurting

also there's such a wide gap between the upper class and the lower middle that it's crazy

most of americans are in credit debt trouble now and are using there cards to buy food when they make a payment each month...

I think thats why the ratios are a lot more shitty now, there's so much free samples to look at, and there's a hell of a lot less people who can throw away 30 to 60 dollars a month

nothing imo is recession proof...

I wish there was a way to just slide money in your pc tower to buy a trial or a full membership, I feel most dont want more payments and interest, and dont trust the system to buy porn online

[LowryBigwood]

I'll throw a couple of pennies in here.

If a recession hit the States, does that mean the rest of the world would stop buying porn? If a lot of people lost their credit cards, there are still other ways of payment such as phone and check. Maybe they would gain more popularity or another type would come into play?

I also think in such a time, more people may find more time to play online as Linkster suggested. Who really knows though is what it comes down to.

[SheepGuy]

Lowry's got some good points. But if a recession hits the US it will likely be worldwide eventually since a lot of major economies are based on the US dollar.
And since credit cards aren't used as much worldwide as they are in North America I'm certainly going to be looking for sponsors that offer alternatives. I'm not panicking, but I'd like to see more sponsors that pay me in Euros anyways, and offer more choices like Euro-debit and 900 #'s for surfers.
A few people in a few threads here have said that European traffic converts very well, and I get a lot of hits from Europe now, so I'd like to be able to sell to them more effectively.
If a recession does hit, I think alternative forms of payment other than cc's will save our asses, and I'd like to start using them now.

[T Pat]

I've been flat ass busted a few times in my life
but never to broke to beat off :D

[walrus]

I think Linkster's right. I do a fair amount of consulting here in So. Cal with folks in the entertainment business and have been told more than once a weak economy is great for business.

[docholly]

I'll throw a couple of pennies in here.

If a recession hit the States, does that mean the rest of the world would stop buying porn? If a lot of people lost their credit cards, there are still other ways of payment such as phone and check. Maybe they would gain more popularity or another type would come into play?

I also think in such a time, more people may find more time to play online as Linkster suggested. Who really knows though is what it comes down to.

Today's World Markets 3/14/2007:

Hang Seng -496 points or 2.5%
Nikkei -500 points or 3%
DAX -176 points or 2.6%
FTSE -160 points or 2.6%


While this doesn't look like much more than a "correction" to an overly inflated market coupled with the sub-prime market in the US taking a dive,we are the #1 consumer of products from China, Japan, Germany and the rest of the European market, I'd say if the US has a recession, there will be some ripple effect worldwide. The fact that the Dow came back today doesn't mean squat

However to the original question, I pretty much think Linkster is right.. it's much more "economical" to buy a 25-30.00 monthly membershiip than to spend 100-150.00 for 1 night out on the town. We may see some downturn initially but after a few weeks of unemployment and realizing that no one is hiring at their current rate of pay, then they will live in their bathrobes and look for porn.. |thumb

[bluemoney]

People tend to delve into their vice's during a recession, that's why I will be buying more stock in DEO (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=deo&x=38&y=14) & NOOF (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=noof&x=39&y=11) :D

[bDok]

Jim - I think that you would find that sales would increase - the "mental depression" that comes along with that type of economic change usually increases peoples staying at home and finding online stuff to do - very similar to the boosts you see from singles around the holidays

You should have seen a big drop back when oil prices skyrocketed if the case you are thinking was going to happen - and it actually increased

Throughout the last 100 years or so - entertainment has always blossomed when hit by recessions - of course we're just a part of that entire market but I think it would be a boon

This is exactly what I was going to say. People get down on shit and drink, look at porn, etc. to escape the reality of the situation that might be happening in their life.

Cheers,
B

[Tommy]

I think porn will always sell, Right after 9/11 I noticed an increase in sales

If people are home more often there will be more people on the web
which cant be bad for sales

what makes me wonder is all these prepaid credit cards
I noticed my local 7/11 selling prepaid visa's

what will that do to the recurring buisness model and what will that do as far as a COPA issue

[[BV]]

I think porn will always sell, Right after 9/11 I noticed an increase in sales

If people are home more often there will be more people on the web
which cant be bad for sales

what makes me wonder is all these prepaid credit cards
I noticed my local 7/11 selling prepaid visa's

what will that do to the recurring buisness model and what will that do as far as a COPA issue


I also was amazed at how well my 1st pay site BV did during the whole 9/11 thing and the slump in our economy afterwards. Sales never slowed down a bit. In fact quite the opposite.

[conny]

I think Linkster's right. I do a fair amount of consulting here in So. Cal with folks in the entertainment business and have been told more than once a weak economy is great for business.

Yes this is 100% correct, if you have some cash to invest.

Like the exchange sell high buy low

[johnnybg]

I had to "enjoy" first hand experience of crashed economy in my country and here are my observations:

1. Shady businesses flourish - black market, smuggling, cheating
2. Government becomes corrupted, justice system slows down
3. Inflation + shortages in retail stores
4. High budget losses
5. Financial instabilty

This factors must be considered whenever we speak about economic crisis.

What I don't know is to what extent US economy would be damaged in case of such crisis. From outside, it looks pretty solid and it's hard to believe it could suffer even from major breakdowns.

It's true that more people at homes means more signups. But who will stop sponsors shaving?

[Greenguy]

...I noticed my local 7/11 selling prepaid visa's

what will that do to the recurring buisness model and what will that do as far as a COPA issueTangent Time :)

There are a lot of CC's putting on the back & in their TOS that having a CC is not proof of being over 18 years of age.

That talked aobut this at one of the XBiz seminars last year in Vegas & how the CC companies were trying to cover their asses with "not proof of age" statements.

[nibbler]

I read an article once which said that consumption of hotdogs increases during hard economic times. The thinking goes that a person could feed his family of 4 for under $10. True story! So I would imagine consumption of porn would decrease. You've got to feed the belly not the dick.

[cd34]

If you look at the stock market trends, during times of recession, oddly, restaurants and entertainment venues have had upticks. The explanation has always been that people actually go out to dinner, go to movies, etc as an 'escape'

I don't think the industry is recession resistant, perhaps more tolerant.

I think that today's issues are caused by people that lived beyond their means by sucking every bit of equity out of their house, or taking advantage of the teaser interest rates on adjustable rate mortgages. I didn't understand that trend... fixed rate mortgages had been at their lowest in years, but, in that quest to save 2% on their APR, people got variable interest rate mortgages -- knowing that interest rates probably couldn't ever go any lower and could only go up.

As a result, certain segments of the industry are probably hit harder than other segments. College grads/attendees may be less likely to whip out their credit cards.

Even though the real estate market is in a bit of turmoil in Florida, our local Aston Martin/Lotus/Range Rover dealer seems to have problems keeping enough cars in stock because they are selling too quickly.

That dealer was interviewed right after 9/11 when GM, Ford and Chrysler all started doing the 0% loans and they asked -- with the average purchase price of your cars being $120k, you still hold your interest rates at 12%, does that affect your business?

The Manager replied, I really cannot recall the last time we financed a car here.

[Linkster]

The real estate market is having a little trouble all over the country - right now foreclosures are up 48% from this time last year - although it really started around June of last year

As far as what people will spend their money on during a recession - I tend to look at the US census/consumption data - and usually pick something like liquor/beer sales - looking back over the last 10 recession cycles, there has either been no change or an increase in spending on liquor during recessions - although overall in the US it has declined significantly over the last 100 years, the spending sure hasnt changed (adjusted of course)
I figure if the guy can go buy a six pack he can afford the 2.95 for a trial :)

[Jim]

I would think all this "desperate people will turn to porn" to be true if it didn't have to be paid for with a credit card or checking account...etc. Wouldn't this be the first time that a business model depended on someone having these during a recession to survive?

[stuveltje]

i dont think this bizz is recession resistant...well mmmmmmm holland went to a very bad economy the last years but still most of my sales came from the usa, USA BIGGGGGGGGGG country...holland very smal small country, now as a foreign webmaster getting paid in dollars a recession will suck big time, no use to promoot dollar paying sponsors when the dollar has a value of nothing, sure i have profit from it...cheap hosting, cheap content but sucks in payment when i have to change the dollar in euros, to prevent getting hit by a recession of the usa i would go for the european countries and change my sponsors in euro paying sponsors to get the most payment.

[stev0]

what makes me wonder is all these prepaid credit cards
I noticed my local 7/11 selling prepaid visa's

what will that do to the recurring buisness model and what will that do as far as a COPA issue

Although it might hurt the recurring business model, it would also open up a lot of opportunities. Theres a huge market of people that either don't have CC's or don't want adult sites showing up on their statements.

[plateman]

I think things this time around if a hard recessions hits will be different...

years past there was not as much to do for free as there is now...

you got tons of tv channels, pc games, console games, and a ton of free porn samples to look at... plus go rent a movie for 2.00

sure gas and cigs and beer will still sell the same, but I think the porn biz will go down a bit, I hope not...

if people will buy a 6 pack and a 1.00 or 2.95 trial how many will convert to a full monthly? and how long can the pps sponsors continue to pay that if hardly anyone buys a full? or cross sells?

I agree that most people bought to much on there cards the last 5 to 10 years and it's affecting the mostly service econemy that we have today, once you pay your mortage, car payments, food and high ulities bills and 2 to 4 credit cards and 3 to 6 department store cards, there's not much left to spend after all that...

those bills would be considered normal but when most of your cards are close to maxed out, then IMO people don't wanna whip it out as easy as before...

I am not gonna doom and gloom I am gonna try and figure out what porn the upper class want and promote programs that pay in euros

[biztro]

Porn is a special market, people will always be horny no matter what.

[redglow]

I have no idea how americans react to the unstable economy at all, in my eyes americans are strange people anyways (runs and hides, lol)
But the good news is: for most people outside the US, buying anything thats priced in US $ these days are give-away-cheap.....
Maybe the people in ex. Europe will open their wallets and pull out their card more often because of this....

But, guess porn is a one of a kind market, and thinking of the numbers of shows featuring girls way back in 1929 -----> , I would say people need something to just enjoy because they want to, maybe even more when times are not the best.....
That's my hope at least lol

[SirMoby]

The industry is very recession resistant.

1. With the new bankruptcy laws CC issuers have increased advertising by over 30%. They can now give cards to every one and they know that sooner or later they will get paid.

2. People will spend less money on expensive entertainment and more on cheap stuff. Instead of generating $50 in bar tabs every weekend they'll stay home, drink a few cheap beers and suddenly that $19.99 membership to a porn site really starts to pay off.

I think surfers will want more for the $$$ so bad sites will lose out but sites with content that can keep people interested will continue to do well.

[tigermom]

I have no idea how americans react to the unstable economy at all, in my eyes americans are strange people anyways (runs and hides, lol)

No offense to any Americans (some of my best friends are American!!), but I can't understand the way Americans see and use money yet, so no idea about how the recession will effect this market. Over here, when things get tough financially, you cut down on all expenses, and fun things go out the window first. In American, people seem to retain a very comfortable lifestyle even when they are said to be "broke" or even bankrupt, so go figure.

[virgohippy]

Not just booze and cigs; don't forget what happened to National Geographic during the 1930's. |thumb

The way $$$ circulates changes all the time but human needs for sex and intimacy have stayed the same for thousands of years.

Getting a computer and plugging into the web is pretty cheap, all things considered.

[stuveltje]

i am realy not waiting on a reseccion from the usa, we had one already the last years since those stupid morons invented the euro, all prices doubled here since the euro, also we have alot of dutch companies in usa, so when usa goes bad holland will go bad too, i cant imaging it will not infect the adult industry if it already infect all industries, i already hated when years ago i went from collecting 100 bucks getting 120 euros to 68 euros, i was raley thinking to drop bizz but i didnt gave up, i am not gonna give up 6 years of working, if it will infect the industrie and i think it will i change back to euro sponsors, till now the euro is still stronger then the dollar and it will be that way for the next years specially when usa will go in a recession, one good thing is to buy dollars and wait till the usa go a good way again...oh and i forgot to say. yes a cc is important when concerning a recession and also the value of the dollar is a very big issue.......when the dollar goes down in value, people will have less to spent, and realy they have to make a choise of feeding their fam or spending the money on porn...make your pick...what would you do:D

[stuveltje]

one thing, dont think the USA cant be hurt, because they can, it happend before and it can happen again....maybe Bush think he can rule the world, but then Bush is a moron, clear fact a recession, lower value of the dollar, all will be more expensieve...also for the bigger earning money making people, but USA is a big country, now tell me that your country has more rich people then poor people then i wont worrie about the bizz, still more then 50% of the porn bizz is earned from getting sales of USA people..........make your own conclusion out of that one...when USA go in a reseccion

[sabin]

I don't think any business is "recession proof", but I think that the effects would be less harmful to our industry than many other luxury-type industries. It's not like we're heading into another great depression. Having a lexus is nice, but its not a primal need. No one pleasures themselves to rolex watches and mansions (as far as I know, maybe that a new niche...). As long as chicks keep being hot and guys keep enjoying looking at them, there will always be a market for porn.

Would an economic downturn cut into profit? Surely.
Is it ever going to be bad enough that its not worth it? Highly unlikely.

Just my 2 cents.|bananna|

[salman]

Salman Khan
<a href=http://www.google.com/>Salman Khan</a>
http://www.google.com/
www.google.com

[Pornstar Dames]

I reckon to the majority of the paying porn surfers porn falls into the necessities IMO along with tabacco and alcohol

So it should still get enough custom to be recession resistant I guess

[virgohippy]

I reckon to the majority of the paying porn surfers porn falls into the necessities IMO along with tabacco and alcohol

Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs puts sex as a necessity right after protecting yourself from man eating tigresses. |virgohippy|

[Andy Choopa]

They say Sex, alcohol, and gambling are recession proof right?

[Jim]

I was really surprised to see that I started this thread back in March.

Now with the mortgage business really taking a shit, the dollar at a new low, oil and metal at a new high and the stock market getting really wacky, it looks like an almost certainty that the US will be going into a recession. Inflation just has to catch up with the falling dollar and we should be there.

I have never been about doom and gloom. But, I really think we are going to get the answer within the next year or two.

Oh yeah...sorry to bump an old thread :)

[Bobc01]

Any theories on the reason?
Whatever the US economy does effects the UK especially on fuel prices.
The banks have fucked up in a big way on giving credit away to bad debtors which is also the problem here, and like with anything, it always has a knock on effect on everything else.

[Jim]

Of course I blame Bush :) But the greedy mortgage companies are the fuel to so many people losing their homes.

[Bobc01]

I can't comment on bush but i agree on the banks, the UK has some of the highest debts because credit it too easy to get and even easier to default on.

[NY Jester]

Here is my 2 cents for what its worth.. the adult industry is fed much like many other "vices". In some cases it is an addiction, others its a spontaneous buy but for the most part its ..for lack of a better word..a habit, that not many peple can kick. If the economy should faulter and a recession occur, the market may see a drop initially but within a few weeks Im sure it would get back up to the norm. This country has seen astronomical growth in prices, and NY state especially (all I can really speak of) has the SIN taxes for beer, cigs, some counties have more taxes on gas, etc. Tourism doesnt stop, consumption doesnt stop and smoking, even with the ban on smoking in bars/restaurants/indoors has not decreased..those that want it will find a way to get it, wheher thats car pooling, or buying no-name brand cigs or finding the best bargains, etc. This will probably be the trend in porn as well. You may see an increase in multi-site passes, AVS passes, FREE trials, $1 trials...and the higher cost sites ($35-40 per month) may drop but I dont think that the industry will ever die.

J-

|jester|

[Ramster]

Jim is correct.

I read a couple of articles yesterday on this and in the early 2000's the Fed Reserve saw a recession coming so they lowered interest rates. Banks all over the US gave mortgages to anyone wanting one. Good for the US economy as it created jobs as the housing industry boomed.

Bad for foreign investors who bought up many of the mortgages. A common practice as mortgages are usually a safe bet/investment. But alas they are not this time as the US banks lent out money to people who could barely afford it and at sub-prime rates to make it worse. Now with the rates rising and the reality of paying a mortgage and all the bills that go along with owning a home people are defaulting and companies are firing CEO's and going out of business.

The US dollar is dying for many reason, one being noone wants to buy/invest in any US businesses or mortgages with such a bad economy right now.

[Ramster]

Several quick yet good reads on the "panic" hitting banks worldwide:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_meltdown

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/02/24/cnusecon24.xml

http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2007/08/09/paribas.html

[Bobc01]

They're firing the CEOs but look at the payouts the fuckers get.

[T Pat]

My son in law works for Countrywide Mortgage, he spent a year and a half on their trade floor rebundeling sub prime loans for the secondary market. Most of those loans were sold to the Chinese (I find a perverse pleasure in that fact). He's still with them and has had to lay off half of his staff, he was sweating his job for awhile but now thinks it's going to be ok. Upper level management is still getting bonuses this year of about half of what they got last year. So he will make in the mid 200's this year instead of the mid 300's.
On the other hand my oldest step son had an ARM with Countrywide, they forclosed on him when he got two months behind.

[Jim]

The US dollar is dying for many reason, one being noone wants to buy/invest in any US businesses or mortgages with such a bad economy right now.

But our exports are way up :) You guys in Canada must be loving the cheap prices.

Either Christmas or the Chinese will be the final nail in the coffin. With mortages so hard to get, house prices are down. People no longer feel safe using their homes as an investment and won't spend as much for Christmas. And, if the Chinese blowhard is right about them moving the 1.3 Trillion from US dollars to Euros, that will hurt.

[Ramster]

But our exports are way up :) You guys in Canada must be loving the cheap prices.

Either Christmas or the Chinese will be the final nail in the coffin. With mortages so hard to get, house prices are down. People no longer feel safe using their homes as an investment and won't spend as much for Christmas. And, if the Chinese blowhard is right about them moving the 1.3 Trillion from US dollars to Euros, that will hurt.


Yes that would hurt bigtime.

Most people are loving the US shopping for sure. Bus loads going across the border every weekend I am reading. But remember I make all my income in US dollars and the exchange was down 10% from Oct 1 to Nov 1 and 25% this year. :(

[Jim]

So you are kind of right with us Ramster. You had a good run living in Canada and getting paid US :)

[tickler]

But our exports are way up :) You guys in Canada must be loving the cheap prices.
It's taking a long time to see any actual price drops at the CDN retailers though. |bullshit|

Some are only now catching on that they better catch up real fast, or we will start buying a lot of things cross-border.

[SirMoby]

Yes that would hurt bigtime.

Most people are loving the US shopping for sure. Bus loads going across the border every weekend I am reading. But remember I make all my income in US dollars and the exchange was down 10% from Oct 1 to Nov 1 and 25% this year. :(
I hate to tell you this. The dollar is going to drop even further. It will keep going until a good economic policy is put in place and then it will slowly glide downward for another 6 months. Only then will it turn upwards again.

It sucks but I didn't vote for him

[Ramster]

I hate to tell you this. The dollar is going to drop even further. It will keep going until a good economic policy is put in place and then it will slowly glide downward for another 6 months. Only then will it turn upwards again.

It sucks but I didn't vote for him

Around here analysts are saying the same thing unfortunately. But the provincial (state) governments are starting to ask the Feds to lower interest rates here in Canada or do something. It is really hurting Canadian retailers as shoppers are heading south. With the duty it is still way cheaper.

Local shoppers are starting to get frustrated too. A magazine has a price tag on it:
$4.95 US
$6.95 Canada

This is pissing people off since the dollar is almost 10% higher than the US dollar. |huh

[Ramster]

WAIT...there's hope. :D

"TORONTO (Reuters) - The Canadian dollar fell more than 2.4 percent against the U.S dollar on Monday, in its biggest one-day decline since 1971, as risk aversion and lower commodity prices encouraged profit-taking after its record peaks last week........ The Canadian currency has plunged more than 6 U.S. cents, or 6.3 percent since Wednesday, when it touched US$1.1039, its highest level against the greenback since the 1870s"

[ponygirl]

Local shoppers are starting to get frustrated too. A magazine has a price tag on it:
$4.95 US
$6.95 Canada

I noticed at the Wal-Mart the other night that they are selling the magazines for the US cover price. Some of them didn't even have the Can. price on the cover.

Zellers (a Canadian company) has already advertised they are lowering prices here too. I'd rather shop for less here than go across the border.

[Bobc01]

Take advantage, if there are any UK sponsors that bill and pay in £ then use them.

Either that or the billing companies start billing in the currency of the surfer.

[plateman]

No and No this biz or any biz is NOT recession resistant...but imo it will get harder yet

months ago I ran accross some credit card stats for americans and it said that a very large % of the population are close to maxed out and can only afford to pay the min. payment every month...

the internet porn biz imo is saturated and most would agree with me, also most who have credit cards dont wanna use them unless it's an emergency, thats what credit cards are supposed to be for...

americans are in debt up to there eyeballs and are trying to pay down there debt, look at how the card companies charge, all kinds of hidden charges to rape the card holders

I talk to other webmasters and the large % of them say the same thing ratios suck and they arnt making the same they made a year ago with even more traffic, even se traffic doesnt buy like it used to

sure there will always be buyers during these hard times, BUT think about all the buyers that quit buying cause they are in trouble and wanna pay down or off there cards, or they went under and are starting over...now add in the surfer who use to buy but now found tube style sites and file sharing sites, and boom you have these shit ratios we have, then you can't forget about the nasty stuff that turned buyers away either, installs, toolbars, torjens

my advise for smaller traffic webmasters like most of the free site submitters here is buckle your belt tighter and lookup with a trustable revshare sponsor who retains...and find niches that the richer surfers buy

IMO ratios overall arn't gonna get any better, just play your cards right and if it gets really bad atleast you won't go down the tubes

[Bobc01]

You're forgetting about debit cards, i binned all my credit cards because they're a complete rippoff but a debit card is just as good for buying online.

[plateman]

You're forgetting about debit cards, i binned all my credit cards because they're a complete rippoff but a debit card is just as good for buying online.
i didnt forget about those lol

i wonder how many horny surfers who had 15 or 20 left in there account and had some checks soon to clear and went for a 1.00 trial and was gonna cancle and forgot or couldn't be home todo it and got hit with some over draft charges...

in my state they range from 25.00 to 40.00 per check and some banks charge 5.00 a day till you get out of the neg

the gov was/is gonna reform the banking and credit card laws. fuck i payed 15.00 for the longest time to pay a payment over the phone automated system, till i wised up and set it up online, and even then they make it a pain in the ass to get it all setup.... fucken crooks, there fuckin loan sharks...

i'd bet porn would sell like crazy again if you could insert your money in a drive on your tower.... no worries about bouncing anything or other charges or upsells you didnt see...

|jester|

[Bobc01]

You're lucky then, go £1 over here and they charge £35 for doing so then another £30 to write an automated letter to tell you, then bung interest on top.
I think debit cards are gonna be the future as credit cards become harder to get or people get sick of paying huge interest.
With house prices here averaging 9 times the average salaries, no one can afford to be careless with credit cards and loans.

Banks are definatly at fault though, if you pay over the minimum payments each month here, they automatically up the credit limits by £500 + which is too much temptation for anyone.

I agree on the crooks, anything financial is legal robery whether it be insurance or banks/credit cards, and the fuckers are allowed to get away with it.

Might be time to start filling out apllication forms for mcdonalds. |jester|

[ArtWilliams]

Third glass of wine response:

Yes, it is somewhat resistant. I like the addiction analogy. That is accurate.

With the U.S. dollar in decline -- sorry my American friends, look for more foreign sales (i.e. Canadians and others -- target your Google ads appropriately).

You have to look "at the margins" to use an economic terms. Some will always be able to afford paysite porn but what will those do that can >JUST< afford to buy a membership when things get tough? That is the crux of the question.

That's all I've got and it is time to sleep.

---art ([Music] Good night! Sleep tight and pleasant dreams to you ...)

[SirMoby]

I think Internet Porn is a poor man's hobby which makes it good in a recession. Recessions mean little money and people are not happy.

I think when people have to cut their income that bars, parties and dating will take a hit and keep people at home, alone and feeling needy. Who's a better customer? People going on dates and hooking up at bars and parties or people staying home alone?

I remember on 9/11 that I watched all the sales being made and though how could someone find pleasure in beauty on such a sad day. Then I realised that I was providing a needed relief to many. What better way to forget about the bad news then spend some time in a little sexual fantasy of your own making?

If we end up in a depression then things might turn bad but I think 2 to 3 quarters of economic down turn (which is going to happen) won't effect this business as much as others.

[CD Smith]

I do believe it is somewhat recession-proof, yes. All one need do is look over the last 50 years, spot which years saw the economy in recession, and then see if spending on porn dropped way down or not. I'm thinking not.

Recession or not, it's a fact that people will still spend money on adult entertainment. I would hazard a guess that even during a full-blown depression a lot of people would still spend $$'s on porn.