Affiliate Programs & Check Cutting/Processing Fees

[Greenguy]

This question crossed my mind over the holidays & I was going to start a thread on it sometime this week, but today I got an email from Mayor's Money that made me think I was onto something.

A lot of affiliate programs pass along the cost of sending payments to the webmaster - whether it's checks (mail & express delivery) or wires or ePassporte or whatever.

I can see the cost of a wire being passed onto the webmaster, as that fee is usually pretty high.

I can see the cost of the express delivery (UPS, Fed Ex, etc) being passed onto the webmaster, as the shipping costs are high.

But is there really a need for a $2 fee for ePassport or a check sent via the US Mail?

ePassporte charges $0.25/transaction. I assume some data has to be imported when the payouts are sent & there is a cost for that employee performing the task, but $2 a transaction?

Jim's going to dig up some info on checks for me, but I can't see where it costs $2/check to have someone print it up & mail it...let alone the $5 that Mayor's Money is now going to charge me!

I'd love to hear from some sponsors that send out checks as well as some numbers - number of checks cut, cost of supplies, the employee's payroll costs, time spent on checks, etc. and, most importantly, the cost per check.

[Ramster]

$5? Wow. :(

I think 25 cents is for regular people to send money a few times a day being the limit. Mass sending cost me $1.00 after 5 transfers in 1 day. Now the $2 fee is likely added to cover the costs of a check writing company to do payroll and payouts and that should NOT be passed onto the affiliate IMO.

I'd be interested in hearing this too.

The processing fees being charged by JuggCash sometimes is Very weird. $100 in sales and I make $55 then the next time $100 and I make $40 with no chargebacks. Very weird.

[Flymaster]

For business account every transaction in Epassporte is cost 2 USD. It's bad, but it exists. May be it is conditioned existing of account :(
I think, partnership programms must pay full sum for adverts without any comission.

[Greenguy]

For business account every transaction in Epassporte is cost 2 USD. It's bad, but it exists. May be it is conditioned existing of account :(
I think, partnership programms must pay full sum for adverts without any comission.Mayor's Money also advised people to get an ePassporte account, saying "Epassporte payments will be completely free" so I have no idea if they have a special arrangement with ePassporte or if they're eating the costs.

[Greenguy]

Jim gave me some rough numbers from the old Ultra Cash days.

1500 checks

Supplies: $200 (very rough figure, as he has no idea what the supplies actually cost back then)
Payroll: $200 (one employee did them in an 8 hour day)
Postage: $600 (based on US mailings - add $0.10 - $0.50 per check for foreign webmasters)

So $1000 for 1500 checks which is $0.67/check.

And remember, this was 8 years ago - new technology & programs have to make it even easier now.

[Greenguy]

...The processing fees being charged by JuggCash sometimes is Very weird. $100 in sales and I make $55 then the next time $100 and I make $40 with no chargebacks. Very weird.
I bitched about that one in the NATS thread - I figured it to be a 24% "processing fee" that comes off the top, so you end up getting 38% from a 50/50 program.

[GonZo]

I bitched about that one in the NATS thread - I figured it to be a 24% "processing fee" that comes off the top, so you end up getting 38% from a 50/50 program.

Yet another version of the shave.

[SaucyPanties]

I know this is going off subject but it is like here in the UK, you purchase an item, go to check-out and we have 17.5% vat added. However, many online companies do not add the 17.5% until after they have added the postage on so were also paying 17.5% on the postage charge |huh

[Toby]

...many online companies do not add the 17.5% until after they have added the postage on so were also paying 17.5% on the postage charge |huhI'm not sure what the law is in the UK re: VAT, but here in the US it varies by State whether or not the shipping should be included when calculating sales tax.

[Jim]

To me, the money it costs to send a check just seems that it should be the cost of doing business. I have to wonder with a US business, is the money both withheld from the webmaster and then written off as a business expense, tax time?

I guess I can see a reason for a program using a 3rd party service. We did that in the beginning with UltraCash. I forgot the cost but I think it might have been $3.50/check. But even then, we ate the cost. We only stopped using the company because they printed the wrong account number on a check run. Nothing like having the rumor of bouncing checks going around when the check says, "Refer to Maker". :) Good tip..."Refer to Maker", some problem other than bounced check. "NSF", bounced check.

[Keyser Soze]

There is a $2 fee to send transfers from business account.

My personal experience is that some programs pass it on to the webmaster others don't.

[Greenguy]

There is a $2 fee to send transfers from business account...Isn't that a little high when you consider that:
1 - a pier to pier transfer is only $0.25
2 - the amount of transactions that an affiliate program would do in each pay period would justify a discount due to the large volume

[Tommy]

anyone pay your bills with online checking

thats completly free and you dont even have to pay for a stamp

I was a little disapointed with Mayors Money
i just spent some time premoting them
if I would have known that I wouldnt have bothered

[Cleo]

anyone pay your bills with online checking

Been paying for just about everything using BofA's online bill payment for years now. I think I wrote less then ten checks in the last year.

If it wasn't for checks coming in the mail from sponsors then I wouldn't even need to go by the bank anymore.

[Greenguy]

anyone pay your bills with online checking

thats completly free and you dont even have to pay for a stamp...

Great point Tommy!

The initial setup might be a pain in the ass, but once that was done & you had all the affiliates in there in the same order as the spreadsheet of names & amounts, all you have to do is have someone enter the totals & press a button.

[MrYum]

Yep, I use online bill pay for both corp and personal...works great. I do pay a flat monthly fee, but it sure as hell doesn't work out to $5 check.

I was very surprised to see that mail from Mayor's as well. The cost of cutting checks to pay vendors or affiliates in this case, should be part of the cost of doing business. No way in hell could it get close to $5/check.

Always thought Mayor was a pretty classy guy in the biz, but between this and the poor numbers I've seen with them in recent months...don't think I'll be building anything new for that program :(

[Mayor_PC]

Basicly it comes down to this:

Checks are an archaic throw back from last century. I am attempting to make it less appealing to get a check and more appealing to get your money instantly with Epassporte. Hell I am even paying for your new Epassporte account and I will set it up for you. If you don't like getting your money instantly then you may CHOOSE to pay $5 and get a check.

If someone has a real seroius issue with a paying $5 per check, of course I'll work with them. But I prefer to use the method of payment that deliveres the money the most efficiently. I am HAPPY to pay the epass fees to do this because it's more reliable and instant.

[Greenguy]

Basicly it comes down to this:

Checks are an archaic throw back from last century. I am attempting to make it less appealing to get a check and more appealing to get your money instantly with Epassporte. Hell I am even paying for your new Epassporte account and I will set it up for you. If you don't like getting your money instantly then you may CHOOSE to pay $5 and get a check.

If someone has a real seroius issue with a paying $5 per check, of course I'll work with them. But I prefer to use the method of payment that deliveres the money the most efficiently. I am HAPPY to pay the epass fees to do this because it's more reliable and instant.

While checks may be archaic to some, they are just fine to others.

And it's not like you're doing us a favor - you're basically saying that unless we use ePassporte, we have to pay you a fee so that you pay us, and that's wrong (both the fee & being forced to use a certain payment method)

We are independent contractors of yours. We all get 1099's at the end of the year. I can not think of any other business that charges people/companies a fee to get their money (and a very high fee at that)

Tell me this: will you still send a US based independent contractor a 1099 if they get paid via an offshore ePassport account?

[Mayor_PC]

Yep, I use online bill pay for both corp and personal...works great. I do pay a flat monthly fee, but it sure as hell doesn't work out to $5 check.

I was very surprised to see that mail from Mayor's as well. The cost of cutting checks to pay vendors or affiliates in this case, should be part of the cost of doing business. No way in hell could it get close to $5/check.

Always thought Mayor was a pretty classy guy in the biz, but between this and the poor numbers I've seen with them in recent months...don't think I'll be building anything new for that program :(


If you're going to Lie and say your numbers are falling I'll post the truth

(actual numbers & dollar amounts removed by greenguy)


Seems to me your numbers have gotten better but based on your volume I understand why $5 would hurt you. Why don't you accept my offer to create you an epassporte for free?

[Mayor_PC]

Tell me this: will you still send a US based independent contractor a 1099 if they get paid via an offshore ePassport account?

Yes of course, it doesn't matter where I pay you from, I am paying you from an US company and are therefore obligated to send you a 1099 For your information as a US citizen you are required BY LAW to report ALL income even offshore payments.

[Mayor_PC]

anyone pay your bills with online checking

thats completly free and you dont even have to pay for a stamp

I was a little disapointed with Mayors Money
i just spent some time premoting them
if I would have known that I wouldnt have bothered

If you can find me a way to electronically pay people by check through a bank (even with a fee) I'll be happy to use it and withdraw my fees.

Problems with paper checks include the following:
Lost checks
Stolen checks
Late checks
Human error
Washed then rewritten for tens of thousands more.

It's not the money. We pay about the same for our check writing service as we do with epassporte. It's just that checks are inherantly more problems.

[MrYum]

If you're going to Lie and say your numbers are falling I'll post the truth

(actual numbers & dollar amounts removed by greenguy)

Seems to me your numbers have gotten better but based on your volume I understand why $5 would hurt you. Why don't you accept my offer to create you an epassporte for free?

Well, so much for my comment about you being a classy guy. Mayor, I'm very disappointed that you would post my personal stats in a public thread. That my friend is not cool at all.

Firstly, you didn't go back far enough...there was a time numbers with your program were MUCH better than the existing stats. You also didn't pick up the 1:10000 numbers from last summer there big fella. Gee, wonder why I'm not sending you much traffic...duh.

Yanno Mayor, my post was in no way maligning your program...simply stating that I don't see good numbers anymore, so doubtful I'll build more for you...in light of this new check fee.

NOW, you come in here and do something as classless as you just did. I'm going to go have some coffee and a smoke, and see if I cool off a bit. Otherwise, I suspect I'll be yanking every fucking link I've got to you. Not cool at all Mayor...NOT AT ALL

Oh, and I already have an epass account...thanks anyway. Gawd, I'm SO fucking close to calling you names man...and I thought you were a classy guy...my mistake.

[Greenguy]

WOW! I'm just as shocked at MrYum.

I'm pulling my links - there's no need to publicly post someone's private information like that (which I have edited out)

[Mayor_PC]

Well, so much for my comment about you being a classy guy. Mayor, I'm very disappointed that you would post my personal stats in a public thread. That my friend is not cool at all.

Firstly, you didn't go back far enough...there was a time numbers with your program were MUCH better than the existing stats. You also didn't pick up the 1:10000 numbers from last summer there big fella. Gee, wonder why I'm not sending you much traffic...duh.

Yanno Mayor, my post was in no way maligning your program...simply stating that I don't see good numbers anymore, so doubtful I'll build more for you...in light of this new check fee.

NOW, you come in here and do something as classless as you just did. I'm going to go have some coffee and a smoke, and see if I cool off a bit. Otherwise, I suspect I'll be yanking every fucking link I've got to you. Not cool at all Mayor...NOT AT ALL

Oh, and I already have an epass account...thanks anyway. Gawd, I'm SO fucking close to calling you names man...and I thought you were a classy guy...my mistake.


You did call me "names"(was a pretty classy guy) also, you claimed you were doing poorly with mayors money in recent months when the real numbers state otherwise. If want to lie about your ratios with me I am going to call you on it. It has nothing to do with class, people should know the truth. As for being close to calling me names, go ahead. It doesn't change the facts. You were trying to sound all big and tough and I called you on your bullshit.

Fact is virtually EVERYONE has been doing great with Mayor's Money and that's why we STOPPED letting just anyone sign-up. I am keeping the program tight so that people keep enjoying the ratios we have by making the program invite only. If you want to give up your spot, let me know I have plenty of people waiting to take it.

[tickler]

I forgot the cost but I think it might have been $3.50/check.
Actually we generally use about a $5.00 figure now in systems design costing. The costs you mentioned plus, a ton more like ink/toner, maintenance. hardware depreciation, archiving/storage, reconciliation, etc.

[Mayor_PC]

WOW! I'm just as shocked at MrYum.

I'm pulling my links - there's no need to publicly post someone's private information like that (which I have edited out)

I don't think that fair, he made an accusation that he was doing poorly and I called him on the lie. Is this the kind of board that allows lies to go unchallenged? His stats showed nothing of a personal nature, not URL's no names, no domain, nothing other than the fact his traffic stayed the same and his ratios got BETTER. The opposite of what he claimed.

[Greenguy]

You could have posted his ratios without the actual dollar amounts.

[Jim]

Mayor
Getting back on track and not mentioning the "posting of personal information" thing, some people have real problems using epassporte. Just because you want to work with them doesn't mean everyone else does. Why would you punish these people with a $5/check penalty?

[Mayor_PC]

?!? That's absurd but I'll happily re-post minus the dollar amount but the amount of traffic divided by the ratio multiplied by our average payout will give that anyway. Not posting his traffic would lead a person to believe that perhaps I was not giving the whole picture or his traffic was way down the last 3 months when it was STABLE. Either way, I am not going to post his numbers. Fact is he lied and I'll leave it at that.

His comments were a blatant lie and I wanted to defend my company. We work our asses off to make sure we have the best converting sites around period. You can see the pride we take in that when you go to Mayor's Money and brag that YOU even found we convert better than any other program.


I took it personally. I always do, because I pour everything into this company to make it what it is and when someone whom I've gone out of my way to take care of takes a cheap shot I get angry. I am sure you would too judging by the comment about pulling our links. Sad that you'd take the side of a newb liar over someone you've been doing business with since 1997.

[MrYum]

You did call me "names"(was a pretty classy guy) also, you claimed you were doing poorly with mayors money in recent months when the real numbers state otherwise. If want to lie about your ratios with me I am going to call you on it. It has nothing to do with class, people should know the truth. As for being close to calling me names, go ahead. It doesn't change the facts. You were trying to sound all big and tough and I called you on your bullshit.

Fact is virtually EVERYONE has been doing great with Mayor's Money and that's why we STOPPED letting just anyone sign-up. I am keeping the program tight so that people keep enjoying the ratios we have by making the program invite only. If you want to give up your spot, let me know I have plenty of people waiting to take it.

Oh please...going to get into semantics huh...'was' a classy guy...wtf. Didn't say you weren't anymore...geez, you're a sensitive lil fella aren't ya.

Didn't lie about my numbers at all...they suck. The fact that they suck less now, than they did last summer doesn't mean they don't suck.

Big and tough...again, please get a grip...what I posted was far from trying to sound big and tough. It was a simple, non threatening statement of MY perception and you waltz in here, post my personal stats and proceed to call me a liar numerous times.

I was going to hit you up on ICQ to see if we could talk about this like adults before I yank my tiny amounts of traffic. Given your post, it's pretty clear you don't give a crap and would rather get into a piss fest on the board.

And now I see that you've decided to call me a liar a couple more times. I'm fuckin floored here Mayor...I honestly thought you were a pretty cool guy. We've spoken a few times on ICQ...and now...THIS |banghead|

Fuck it...I can't work with someone who calls me a liar in a public forum. Go ahead and give up that spot to someone else Mayor...feel fuckin free. I'll have your links down by later this evening. Oh, and yea...charge me the $5 and send a check for whatever payments are owed at this point.

Of all the programs, you were about the last one I would have expected to post shit like that...and it's not just the personal stats. I take great offense to being called a liar...nothing could be farther from the truth.

[Mayor_PC]

Mayor
Getting back on track and not mentioning the "posting of personal information" thing, some people have real problems using epassporte. Just because you want to work with them doesn't mean everyone else does. Why would you punish these people with a $5/check penalty?

It's not punishment, it's a fee and it's a choice. If someone has real issues with it, they can talk to me. We're working on ACH push as well but that's going to take some time.

[Useless]

I didn't know that Pimp Dawg bought Mayor's Money.

Links pulled. There goes that 259 hits per year. :D

[Mayor_PC]

Funny Mr Yum, it's OK for you to say my program wasn't converting well for you in recent months but when I defend myself and proove you're lying about that I am suddenly I am the asshole? =

[emmanuelle]

Jim gave me some rough numbers from the old Ultra Cash days.

1500 checks

Supplies: $200 (very rough figure, as he has no idea what the supplies actually cost back then)
Payroll: $200 (one employee did them in an 8 hour day)
Postage: $600 (based on US mailings - add $0.10 - $0.50 per check for foreign webmasters)

So $1000 for 1500 checks which is $0.67/check.

And remember, this was 8 years ago - new technology & programs have to make it even easier now.


I don't know how that company ran their office, but you might need to figure in the salary (or part of) for the employee who took care of these things. 1500 Checks per period sounds like it might keep somebody pretty busy, even if it's just dealing with papercuts from licking so many envelopes.

It's my understanding that both Prodigy and Taboo check writing services charge the program $3-3.50/checks.
note: Prodigy may or may not be in business still due to the cohf circumstances, and Taboo will reduce their fees based on volume

The banking industry is not what it was 8 years ago. Nowadays they too punish people for paper checks with high fees. A check cashed on my business account costs me $1.75

There are genuinely good arguments for using a third party- timely payments rather than waiting on forgetful small program owners being the first that comes to mind. However, the program should account for these fees (or any parts beyond reasonable) in their numbers before deciding what % or pps amount to offer.

[[BV]]

FYI:
CCBill charges .39 cents
Paycom/Epoch charges $2.00

[Greenguy]

?!? That's absurd but I'll happily re-post minus the dollar amount but the amount of traffic divided by the ratio multiplied by our average payout will give that anyway..
Like I said, if would have been ok if you posted ONLY the ratios & not the dollar amounts & total clicks. That information is no one business but yours & his.

...You can see the pride we take in that when you go to Mayor's Money and brag that YOU even found we convert better than any other program..I've been meaning to suggest to Wizzo for the last 8 months that you guys might want to pull down the November 2005 stats totals.

...I am sure you would too judging by the comment about pulling our links. Sad that you'd take the side of a newb liar over someone you've been doing business with since 1997.I'm not taking the side of a "newb liar". I'm taking the side of a friend & a valued member of this board that's been working in this business since 2000.

***

Like I said in my 1st post, I was thinking that the $2 fee that most places charge was a little high & I was going to start a thread on the topic sometime this week when I had some free time. But the email about the $5 fee I got this morning made me think that I should start the thread today. It was not meant as a personal attack on your company, just the straw that broke the camel's back.

I do plan to call out some other sponsors on their fees when I get a chance, because I have a really hard time believing that it costs a company $2/check (let alone $5)

[[BV]]

?!? That's absurd but I'll happily re-post minus the dollar amount but the amount of traffic divided by the ratio multiplied by our average payout will give that anyway.


|huh

Posting someones traffic total & their conv. ratio is the same as posting how much money they make.


Just the ratios would have been sufficient to prove Mr. Yum was lying. But I can't tell if he was because GreenGuy edited the post and didn't leave just the ratios.

So there is no way for me to know.

So what was his ratio during these recent months?

Was it bad or good?

[Greenguy]

I don't know how that company ran their office, but you might need to figure in the salary (or part of) for the employee who took care of these things. 1500 Checks per period sounds like it might keep somebody pretty busy, even if it's just dealing with papercuts from licking so many envelopes....That's what the $200 Employee total was - he remembers it took a day or so (sometimes more, sometimes less) for his employee to print the checks, stuff the ednvelopes & run them thru the postage machine (no licking of enveloped for Jim's employees - lol)

So even if it took that emplyee 2 days to complete the task, you only at $0.80/check.

[emmanuelle]

duh- how did I block that line out?

$200 to stuff envelopes for a day- sounds like one of those jobs offered in the back of tabloids :D

[Jim]

That's what the $200 Employee total was - he remembers it took a day or so (sometimes more, sometimes less) for his employee to print the checks, stuff the ednvelopes & run them thru the postage machine (no licking of enveloped for Jim's employees - lol)

So even if it took that emplyee 2 days to complete the task, you only at $0.80/check.

Nah...only took a day. Sparky would send me a quickbooks file, I would import it, throw the checks in a BIG printer and click print :) Susy only had to stuff the envelopes and the postage machine took care of the rest. Of course, that $200 is high by today's standards. We paid the secretary $1k/week for filtering my email and stuffing evenlopes :)

[[BV]]

We paid the secretary $1k/week for filtering my email and stuffing evenlopes :)

WOW! Did she wear knee pads? :D

[Mayor_PC]

Had a lengthy chat with Mr Yum, something that we both could have benefited from prior to posting.

Fact is, we both made some mistakes. I agree, that posting his $$ was out of line and frankly out of character for me. I feel a little backed into a corner on this $5 check thing and reading his post really set me off. In his defense, he's no liar, he had some terrible months back in July/Aug last year. But in my defense, the last several months have been MUCH better.

I can discuss the merits and downsides of checks endlessly but lets face it, I'm not locking any one's money up. I am providing options and listening to suggestions. So far everyone seems caught up in the amount, not the principle.

How else do you get people off checks? They are not a good way to deliver funds. They are constantly lost or stolen, washed and illegally re-deposited for tens of thousands, misplaced, etc. . . . With epass (even though it initially costs more for me to send) it saves a lot of problems in the back end.

That is why I offered (at my cost) to create an epass account for ANYONE who needs one.

[Toby]

How else do you get people off checks? Direct transfer to their bank account? Which is exactly what I'd have to do to get my money from ePass.

[mr.sexbankroll]

Not to toot my own horn, but i can't resist.

Sexbankroll doesn't charge a check processing fee!

:)

R

[Greenguy]

...How else do you get people off checks? They are not a good way to deliver funds. They are constantly lost or stolen, washed and illegally re-deposited for tens of thousands, misplaced, etc. . . . With epass (even though it initially costs more for me to send) it saves a lot of problems in the back end...So why pass those fees along to someone like me, who's in 10 years of business has only had to get one check replaced? (for those of you that care, I shredded it by mistake :D)

Why not cut checks for a reasonable fee ($1) and then charge $5 or $10 for replacement checks?

[MrYum]

Had a lengthy chat with Mr Yum, something that we both could have benefited from prior to posting.

Fact is, we both made some mistakes. I agree, that posting his $$ was out of line and frankly out of character for me. I feel a little backed into a corner on this $5 check thing and reading his post really set me off. In his defense, he's no liar, he had some terrible months back in July/Aug last year. But in my defense, the last several months have been MUCH better.

I can discuss the merits and downsides of checks endlessly but lets face it, I'm not locking any one's money up. I am providing options and listening to suggestions. So far everyone seems caught up in the amount, not the principle.

How else do you get people off checks? They are not a good way to deliver funds. They are constantly lost or stolen, washed and illegally re-deposited for tens of thousands, misplaced, etc. . . . With epass (even though it initially costs more for me to send) it saves a lot of problems in the back end.

That is why I offered (at my cost) to create an epass account for ANYONE who needs one.
Glad we had that chat Mayor.

For any part I played in jacking this thread from its intent, my apologies. We all know numbers fluctuate with programs and some affiliates do better than others...it's the nature of this business. I really didn't mean for my post to denigrate the program or kick in Mayors program protection mode.

As to the checks issue, I still think $5 is exhorbidant...that's my perception. I understand your goal is to get people off checks, but the reality is a lot of folks still prefer checks...myself included. For one thing, it makes revenue tracking on my end easier.

[Greenguy]

...Sexbankroll doesn't charge a check processing fee!You know, it might be because the revshare checks are always odd numbers, but most of the PPS sponsors eat all the fees, because the checks are usually nice round numbers where you can tell exactly how many signups you got in that period.

[Toby]

...then charge $5 or $10 for replacement checks?OR... why even bother issuing a replacement check at all.

I had a Google AdSense check that got lost in the mail. When I notified them, they put stop payment on the check and credited the amount back to my account. It got included with payout at the end of the next pay period.

[Greenguy]

OR... why even bother issuing a replacement check at all.

I had a Google AdSense check that got lost in the mail. When I notified them, they put stop payment on the check and credited the amount back to my account. It got included with payout at the end of the next pay period.Yup - that'd work as well. Of course, there might be a fee for putting the stop payment on the check, but I'm sure the webmaster would not mind having that fee taken out.

[[BV]]

Stop Payment fees are way more than $10.00, (maybe 3x that) and even if the sponsor issues another check or adds it to your next check, he still has to stop payment on the original, otherwise it could show up later and get cashed and he would get fucked.

[Mayor_PC]

I never charge for stolen/damaged replacement checks. Only lost/misplaced. It's not about the money, it's about the cost in time and recources.

All this has brought a new option forward. Don't know if it should have it's own thread. I'll leave that to the board owners to decide.

I am adding a second check option called "big check" so you can still get a check for free. Just select big check and set your min payout to 500 or 1000. If you insist on getting smaller checks, you'll have to pay the $5. Or you can get it via epass for free.

[DangerDave]

If only the same attitude came from sponsors/programs when the shoe was on the other foot.

We had a cheque(from a major program(that uses NATS!)) bounce the other day and it has cost us a huge amouint in both fees and lost reputation at our bank where the cashing of "foreign" cheques is always an issue.

So far we have had 30 days of fucking around, and no cash, from them(Sponsor). IMO that is unacceptable..

DD

_______________________________
No Nats (http://www.nonats.com/) - Find programs that DON'T use NATS
Old Dollars (http://www.owamw.com/webmasters/program.shtml) - Selling older women via CCBill for longer than NATS has been around

[SheepGuy]

If only the same attitude came from sponsors/programs when the shoe was on the other foot.

We had a cheque(from a major program(that uses NATS!)) bounce the other day and it has cost us a huge amouint in both fees and lost reputation at our bank where the cashing of "foreign" cheques is always an issue.

So far we have had 30 days of fucking around, and no cash, from them(Sponsor). IMO that is unacceptable..

DD



Fuck Yeah! I've never lost a cheque, but had a few bounce and it's funny how it's always "the bank screwed up" as the standard excuse.
In the early days I had to change banks because my original bank slapped a 30 day hold on all $US cheques deposited since 3 small cheques bounced and one of them was a replacement checque for one that bounced earlier. I would bet that if any of those outfits were still around they'd be charging for cheques.
The whole idea of charging someone to pay them what is owed is just plain greed. And the surest way to fuck up a business in a competitive market is to piss off your salesmen, without them you are toast.

[GonZo]

Dont be a "Wiley Coyote"

beep beep

[Greenguy]

...I am adding a second check option called "big check" so you can still get a check for free. Just select big check and set your min payout to 500 or 1000. If you insist on getting smaller checks, you'll have to pay the $5. Or you can get it via epass for free.I'd love to know what % of all your affiliates makes over $500 a pay period. And, anyone that does can probably afford the $5.

It's the Joe Blow Webmasters of the world that get a sale or 2 each week that'll end up getting $5 taken out of their $100 checks.

If you can honestly sit there & tell everyone that it costs you $5 to cut a check, then I think you really need to audit your payroll department.

[[BV]]

I'd love to know what % of all your affiliates makes over $500 a pay period. And, anyone that does can probably afford the $5.

It's the Joe Blow Webmasters of the world that get a sale or 2 each week that'll end up getting $5 taken out of their $100 checks.

If you can honestly sit there & tell everyone that it costs you $5 to cut a check, then I think you really need to audit your payroll department.


Don't hate on me for pointing this out please, but I believe he already explained why he is charging the $5 fee, and his explanation had nothing to do with the actual cost of cutting the check.

His reasons were to make his check payment option less attractive and his Epass option more attractive in order to cut down on the amount of checks he writes, thus cutting down on the amount of fraud issues related to checks that he claims is an issue for his program.

At least that's what I comprehended.

[Maj. Stress]

It's the Joe Blow Webmasters of the world that get a sale or 2 each week that'll end up getting $5 taken out of their $100 checks.

Most major programs only want to hear the good from webmasters that only produce a few sales a week. But that is a topic for another thread.

As stated by a few, cutting checks is a cost of doing business. Of all the years I worked in the brick & mortar industries not once did I see an employer charge an employee a fee to get the money they earned.

I did learn one thing from this thread and I will keep that to myself. The lesson learned should be obvious though. :D

[Greenguy]

;324110']...His reasons were to make his check payment option less attractive and his Epass option more attractive in order to cut down on the amount of checks he writes, thus cutting down on the amount of fraud issues related to checks that he claims is an issue for his program....I get that part - my point is why does everyone have to pay for the fuck-up's of others? If I lost a check, I'd have no problem paying whatever fees were required to replace it.

But to charge everyone $5 to cover the costs of potential problems that may or may not happen is not right.

Hell, the $5 for the check might actually be cheaper than ePass in the long run. You get charged $2 per ATM withdrawal. There's a fee on both ends to transfer money to & from your bank.

Fees Fees Fees.....

[DangerDave]

my point is why does everyone have to pay for the fuck-up's of others? If I lost a check, I'd have no problem paying whatever fees were required to replace it.

But to charge everyone $5 to cover the costs of potential problems that may or may not happen is not right.




Amen Brother... !

DD

[[BV]]

This thread reminded me how glad I am I don't have to deal with payouts.

3rd party payouts by CCBill & Epoch are nice for both sides.

[Greenguy]

;324134']...3rd party payouts by CCBill & Epoch are nice for both sides.Wait until I start to complain that CCBill charges me $0.39 for mailing the check, but they only pay $0.27 in postage |couch|

[Kenny B!]

Here’s my 5 cents worth… I feel it’s up to the sponsor to decide if they want to charge a fee for check or epass payments, and up to the affiliate if they want to use that sponsor, or continue using that sponsor.

Every sponsor pays out differently, 50%-80% revshare, some deduct processing, some don’t, some make almost impossible to see what you actually make per revshare sale, some are $25 pps, some $60 pps, some vary depending on the amount of sales you make each month. Every sponsor program varies in how much they pay per sale, it’s up to affiliates to work out their per click income and decide if the sponsor is worth promoting. If there is a $5 fee per check you need to factor that in to how much you make per click.

As far as charging a fee to cut checks, I completely understand why a sponsor program would want to do so; it’s a real pain in the ass. I do find $5 excessive for the work involved but $2.50 sounds about right to cover the costs of the check, processing, stamp, etc.

E-Passporte is a great system and although it can actually costs more to pay via epass then by check with the $2 per transfer, $35 wire fee and $50 Epass load fee, it makes life a heck of a lot easier.

In either case the fee should also be reasonable and relative to the minimum payout, if the min payout is $50 and there’s a $5 fee that’s an extra 10% loss every 2 weeks for the smaller webmasters who just reach the minimum.

I do think it was proper of Mayor to inform all his affiliates of this and not just start charging the fee with no notice. He went the right route as far as informing affiliates of changes to their account, something we don’t see so often these days.

[Greenguy]

Kenny - what do you guys charge?

[Simon]

I don't think it's fair that using the CCBill affiliate system, even though we chose to pay all processing fees instead of passing them along to our affiliates, we can't pay the .39 fee for mailing the check too.

That's just not right.

|jester|

[Kenny B!]

We don't charge anything for checks but we do pass along the $2 fee for epassporte payments.

[Tvduijn]

We don't charge anything for checks but we do pass along the $2 fee for epassporte payments.

Lots of sponsors do that, and as an Epass lover, I always wonder why you guys only charge Epass transfers. Checks arent free either right? And Epass seems a lot les hassle to me. (tho I dont have any experience with it)

Its not a big deal and I dont want you to go charge checks aswell but I just wonder, why free checks and $2 epass?

[Useless]

I'm a check guy and, as of yet, haven't allowed any sponsor to pay me via Epass. It's not easier for me to put my money into someone else's bank. Want to make it easier? Deposit my funds directly into MY bank - you know, the one I chose, not the one you did. Otherwise, send me a fucking check and don't act like, after hundreds of years of successful use, they're suddenly a great big pain in the ass.

Also, I've done a variety of independent contractor jobs, from selling high-end barbecue grills to home security systems. All on a pay per sale basis. Never, had any company charged me for MY pay. It's a cost of doing business that typically isn't passed onto those who were bastardly enough to send sales your way. If those sales are so god damned aggravating, just let the sales people know and they'll shift their efforts elsewhere.

[Greenguy]

I don't think it's fair that using the CCBill affiliate system, even though we chose to pay all processing fees instead of passing them along to our affiliates, we can't pay the .39 fee for mailing the check too....Since I have all my accounts merged & only get one check, based on 100 or so CCBill sponsors, I think you owe me $0.03 for the last 4 years :D

We don't charge anything for checks but we do pass along the $2 fee for epassporte payments.Good man |thumb

...Its not a big deal and I dont want you to go charge checks aswell but I just wonder, why free checks and $2 epass?With most, checks are the default & you have to pay for another option that you wish to use. With Mayor's Money, ePass is not the default & you have to pay for the checks. I think everyone has a default that's best for their business model & if you choose a different option, you have to pay for it.

...Also, I've done a variety of independent contractor jobs, from selling high-end barbecue grills to home security systems. All on a pay per sale basis. Never, had any company charged me for MY pay. It's a cost of doing business that typically isn't passed onto those who were bastardly enough to send sales your way. If those sales are so god damned aggravating, just let the sales people know and they'll shift their efforts elsewhere.
That does bring us back to the Independent Contractor angle on this & the fact that we all get 1099's, but I doubt you'll find another industry that charges you for your payment.

[Kenny B!]

Lots of sponsors do that, and as an Epass lover, I always wonder why you guys only charge Epass transfers. Checks arent free either right? And Epass seems a lot les hassle to me. (tho I dont have any experience with it)

Its not a big deal and I dont want you to go charge checks aswell but I just wonder, why free checks and $2 epass?

When we started off we didn't charge for check or epass. Truth be told I started charging the $2 fee when I had to add an extra $300+ to my wire to cover the wire, load and processing fees. Writing checks costs me about the same as sending an epass but because the cost is deferred through so many smaller fee’s (check costs, stamps, printer ink, envelopes, etc.) I don’t see the money leaving as one lump sum and never started charging a fee. Is it a fair and justified reason, absolutely not, it’s just the way it is.

Another thing that just came to mind is when starting an affiliate program I don’t know if many sponsors factor in the cost of paying affiliates. If you have a min payout of $50 (many affiliates get paid around that mark) and the cost of paying the affiliate is $2.50 to $5 by % that can add up to quite a large expense. Again this doesn’t mean the affiliate should have to pay for it, it means people need to plan really well and set their accounting and terms and conditions up properly.

[Toby]

...it means people need to plan really well and set their accounting and terms and conditions up properly.You mean think it all through in advance? What a novel idea. ;)

[Tommy]

I am a little shocked that a program owner would post somebodys stats on a board


I understand that the mayor wanted to refute a statement made by somebody but there are lots better ways to do that

I know this might come as a shock to a lot of program owners but that is private info and its really not yours to do with as you please
its a huge breach of privacy

I am sure its actionable

when a doctor creates medical records for a person is that info his to give out to the public

what about a credit card company openly posting customers financial info

[Mayor_PC]

I'd love to know what % of all your affiliates makes over $500 a pay period. And, anyone that does can probably afford the $5.

It's the Joe Blow Webmasters of the world that get a sale or 2 each week that'll end up getting $5 taken out of their $100 checks.

If you can honestly sit there & tell everyone that it costs you $5 to cut a check, then I think you really need to audit your payroll department.

First off it's not all about the cost. If it was a cost thing, I would be charging for epass like everyone else and I would make a ton more.
It's about changing behavior. Make one more appealing than the other and get people to change but allow those who refuse to change some options.

I'll address both of these as best I can and yes, I'll even post some private data (it's my private data so it's OK haha)

Percentage of affiliates over $500 a period that. Sure thing, about 80%. Now try to follow OK. The percentage of check guys between $100-$500 a a period is about 70%.


As for blow can't wait till his money is over $500 and is so broke he needs his money right away he can always get an epass for FREE and take it out of an ATM. Unlike almost ALL programs I don't charge for epass.


To put things in perspective.
Today: My personal bank refunds me for any atm fees I am charged, they pay me interest on all funds. I earn miles when I use my debit visa there and I get world class service.

Years ago: My bank charged me a monthly fee because I had too little money in there. I was charged ATM fees by my bank for using another banks ATM. I was charged a fee for using a real teller. I was charged a fee for depositing coins.

My point is you are not a naive person so don't act stupid and try to say everyone should be and is treated equally. It's life, it's why we strive to make more, be more and learn more. Big guys expect special treatment. I believe that's why you kept winning "contests" from CE. They didn't reward the "one or two sale guy" They gave YOU a reward because you sent them tons of sales. I didn't hear you bitching about the inequity then ;)


Clearly you want to paint me out to be some kind of greeny err greedy monster over $5 which is absolutly laughable. I think it's about time you found something else to be indigent and self richeous about.

[Mayor_PC]

I am a little shocked that a program owner would post somebodys stats on a board


I understand that the mayor wanted to refute a statement made by somebody but there are lots better ways to do that

I know this might come as a shock to a lot of program owners but that is private info and its really not yours to do with as you please
its a huge breach of privacy

I am sure its actionable

when a doctor creates medical records for a person is that info his to give out to the public

what about a credit card company openly posting customers financial info



Don't shame yourself trying to think like a lawyer because you're clearly not. Comparing medical data or his credit card info to a partial snap shot of stats in MY program is a more than stupid. Could I have refuted what I thought was an inaccurate claim differently, sure. But solid proof settles arguments faster than anything else. Next time, however, I highly doubt I'll handle things the same way ;)

Mr Yum and I had a chat and worked things out and made our respective apologies, and I agreed posting his stats was not a good idea, so you can go find some other dead horse to beat.

[Tommy]

Don't shame yourself trying to think like a lawyer because you're clearly not. Comparing medical data or his credit card info to a partial snap shot of stats in MY program is a more than stupid. Could I have refuted what I thought was an inaccurate claim differently, sure. But solid proof settles arguments faster than anything else. Next time, however, I highly doubt I'll handle things the same way ;)

Mr Yum and I had a chat and worked things out and made our respective apologies, and I agreed posting his stats was not a good idea, so you can go find some other dead horse to beat.


the only one that shamed themselves on this board is you

if you wanna think about how to handle things in the future you might wanna start by not picking pissing matches with your affliates

[Greenguy]

First off it's not all about the cost. If it was a cost thing, I would be charging for epass like everyone else and I would make a ton more.
It's about changing behavior. Make one more appealing than the other and get people to change but allow those who refuse to change some options...Is this some sort of Global Warming thing? Get everyone off paper & onto electronic funds? Save a tree, preserve the ozone layer?

Because if you had come out & said that from the beginning, I might have actually thought that you had a point.

But I don't see why it's up to you to change everyone's behavior. But, then again, it is your company, so |buddy| speed & I wish you the best |shake|

I'll address both of these as best I can and yes, I'll even post some private data (it's my private data so it's OK haha)...Yeah, I should have never asked that one - my apologies on that.

[Mayor_PC]

the only one that shamed themselves on this board is you

if you wanna think about how to handle things in the future you might wanna start by not picking pissing matches with your affliates

The sage has spoken! Ever thought of writing fortune cookies? You're pretty good at useless after the fact advice!

ps it's spelled "affiliates"


take care man :)

[emmanuelle]

ps it's spelled "affiliates"



Clearly you want to paint me out to be some kind of greeny err greedy monster over $5 which is absolutly laughable. I think it's about time you found something else to be indigent and self richeous about.



I'm thinking that the words you're looking for might be indignant and righteous.

[DangerDave]

.

|pcwins|

i... n... d... umm... <WHACK>

.

[daisyswank]

The epass fee is $2 we pass that down, there are lots of others postage overseas being the biggest, but you got to eat some costs to keep the affiliates happy

[Jel]

I learnt something useful from this thread, pretty sure a bunch of other people did too :)

[Simon IA Cash]

I'm thinking that the words you're looking for might be indignant and righteous.

:D

I think this industry should go with totally phonetic spelling, and maybe form some kind of unique porn-pidgin speak. Freedom of speech includes freedom to spell!

[sweetpurple04]

I think Epass does have this service.

[Toby]

Freedom of speech includes freedom to spell!...or misspell, as the case may be.

Meanwhile back to the thread at hand... the point Emma so eloquently made was that one (Mayor) should tend to his own flaws before making a point of others.

BTW, thanks Emma. Best laugh I had I all day.

[kenny]

I agree checks are old school.

However if you're going to penalize people for using the check option offer a better alternative then epassporte.

I mean come on I'll take a check over epass any day of the week.

Direct deposit the money in my bank account or something.

[Jim]

I think Epass does have this service.

I just have to ask this.
What the hell are you talking about?

[rachelo]

I'm thinking that the words you're looking for might be indignant and righteous.
Great point!

Being a small time Webmaster and not getting huge checks, I just love to pay $5.00 in order to get paid. Why not, either way most sponsors don't really care about you if you don't sent huge numbers their way.

Epass is a lot better too, atm withdrawal fees etc...

And YES I got the point, "IT IS NOT THE MONEY" just want to show us the right way of dealing with OUR MONEY!

Thanks, I am sure a lot of us appreciate all this help from the big sponsors!

[Jim]

Someone once told me that trying to get webmasters to do what they don't want to do is like herding cats. It just never works...

[Kenny B!]

either way most sponsors don't really care about you if you don't sent huge numbers their way.

I disagree with that statement, most programs tend to all webmasters small and big from what I've seen.

[SheepGuy]

Someone once told me that trying to get webmasters to do what they don't want to do is like herding cats. It just never works...

Agreed! My wife has been trying to change me since the day we met almost 15 years ago. It just doesn't work.

[rachelo]

Kenny B!: Maybe I should have said some instead of most. Sorry!

[tickler]

Someone once told me that trying to get webmasters to do what they don't want to do is like herding cats. It just never works...
Cats can be herded!:D
http://www.stupidvideos.com/video/commercials/Cat_Herding/?c=&p=104

[[BV]]

I heard my cats this morning.

They went meow meow. |jester|


In all seriousness though, it is possible to herd my cats. All I have to do is shake the cat food box and they herd right up. :D

[spazlabz]

Royal Cash just recently started to make paper checks available as a payment option for our affiliates. There are a host of special issues concerning but but the breakdown of it goes something like this.

It actually costs us $5.00USD to send that check to webmasters based in the US

we tossed it back and forth for awhile if we should deduct that amount from each check we sent. Finally we decided that was a cost we could eat because really only a small percentage of our affiliate base will be choosing this payment method and it is only fair since we are benefitting from their traffic.


spaz

[Mayor_PC]

I'm thinking that the words you're looking for might be indignant and righteous.

See if I give you any rides from TGP parties or let you buy me dinner again! Benny says hello.
I blame my typos to google speal chucker not nowing what I meant butt hey at list I clicked the speal cjecker dammmit and it spealed the wrung words rite.

[[BV]]

I blame my typos to google speal chucker not nowing what I meant butt hey at list I clicked the speal cjecker dammmit and it spealed the wrung words rite.

Don't hate on the Google tool bar now. That is the best dam thing Google ever made! I couldn't live without it.

PS:
It's a lame excuse anyways.
richeous is not even a word, Google splchk corrects it fine.

[babymaker]

I just have to ask this.
What the hell are you talking about?

Jim i think this should answer your question lol, i got him at another board :D

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Serious just a piece of advice no one here is gonna buy your dumb ass video so stop wasting your time spamming posts...hit gfy u might find a drunk program owner at least....no one here is buying lol

at least you're a good spammer not a total bot

he's a bot i doubt he will read this post lol :D whack him and his IP|santa|

[rollergirl]

I'm a check guy and, as of yet, haven't allowed any sponsor to pay me via Epass. It's not easier for me to put my money into someone else's bank. Want to make it easier? Deposit my funds directly into MY bank - you know, the one I chose, not the one you did. Otherwise, send me a fucking check and don't act like, after hundreds of years of successful use, they're suddenly a great big pain in the ass.

Also, I've done a variety of independent contractor jobs, from selling high-end barbecue grills to home security systems. All on a pay per sale basis. Never, had any company charged me for MY pay. It's a cost of doing business that typically isn't passed onto those who were bastardly enough to send sales your way. If those sales are so god damned aggravating, just let the sales people know and they'll shift their efforts elsewhere.




This post gave me chills. |bow|

[The Ghost]

Someone once told me that trying to get webmasters to do what they don't want to do is like herding cats. It just never works...

That saying always makes me smile.


There are times where a business is in a position to enact a policy change and make changes throughout an entire industry. Changing affiliates to Epassporte isn't an issue I would care to champion, since it is possible the Epassporte service will not be long lasting. Not saying anything negative against Epass, we have had very good experiences with it. But it does not have the positive payment history of checks. Looking at our stats, as a whole about 60% of affiliates opt for Checks and 35% opt for Epass as the preferred payment option. It does not matter to us the payment option chosen, just that we have the best possible payment options for affiliates available.

I like the ease of Epass, but there are additional issues with wires loads and fees, esperically since our minimum is low. Sending out checks via billpay to domestic affiliates is just as easy and cheaper for us to do (no fee at all). International checks take slightly longer but are also not an issue.

Just for the record we dont charge fees for either Epassporte or Checks. We are just happy affiliates promote us and make sales to receive those payments. Thats what it's all about.

[Toni]

Hello,

I didn’t read the whole thread, maybe someone posted that already but anyway…

First I want to say that we at Fetish Hits do NOT charge any fees for check or Epassporte payouts, I just wanted to explain where the $2 Epassporte fee is coming from.

If you have an Epassporte business account the transaction fee is $2 not $0.25.
The task time to perform that payout is no big deal as it is simple copy/paste of the whole list into a batch form, at least that is how we do it…

Some charge the $2 we don't and I think that is good. I am seeing more and more companies charging for the payouts and I don't like it. Anyway $2 per payout builds up in a new amount over a year

[Greenguy]

I hate reviving these old threads, but I saw one today while doing my stats that made me laugh - Glam Cash charges $24.99 for a check :D

[nekrom]

I hate reviving these old threads, but I saw one today while doing my stats that made me laugh - Glam Cash charges $24.99 for a check :D

Bugger me mate. For that I'd expect the cheque to be hand written and delivered.

-N

[Greenguy]

**UPDATE**

Good News! In case you missed it, Dee Cash recently bought Mayor's Money. I hit up nickbaauw at Dee Cash & asked about the $5 check fee. He looked into it for me (and us) and they have decided to waive the fee for all webmasters!

I guess I'm going to have to put those link codes back up now :D

[nickbaauw]

**UPDATE**

Good News! In case you missed it, Dee Cash recently bought Mayor's Money. I hit up nickbaauw at Dee Cash & asked about the $5 check fee. He looked into it for me (and us) and they have decided to waive the fee for all webmasters!

I guess I'm going to have to put those link codes back up now :D

Goooooood news :) You tha man! greenguy!

we'll be in touch for more exciting news from deecash |bananna|

[Wizzo]

**UPDATE**

Good News! In case you missed it, Dee Cash recently bought Mayor's Money. I hit up nickbaauw at Dee Cash & asked about the $5 check fee. He looked into it for me (and us) and they have decided to waive the fee for all webmasters!

I guess I'm going to have to put those link codes back up now :D

Expect a number of other positive changes as well! |bananna|

[nickbaauw]

Expect a number of other positive changes as well! |bananna|

You tha man wizzo! :) Again... welcome to tha Dee TEAM |bananna|