PornoTube

[roganoli]

I think that it is not good for us…Which your opinion?

[Toby]

I have some concerns, mostly with regard to how they intend to control abuse of copyrighted content. So far they (AEBN) have not given a satisfactory answer.

[alessandro]

It's not good news IMHO.

[Greenguy]

I'll let Bishop from AEBN know aobut this thread & hopefully he can shed some light on the subject for us.

[Senator_x]

Good for program owners who want to brand their products, bad for webmaster since they can't brand other peoples products as their own.

Webmaster with original products(amateurish stuff) can benefit by adding movies with their website URL watermarked. This can drive traffic virally just like youtube does for mainstream sites.

[atariFu]

I would be more worried about bittorrent, pornotube rarely has anything over a minute long.

[GonZo]

I think that it is not good for us…Which your opinion?

Help me understand why you think this is not good for the industry?

[Kron]

Nah, this is just next thing, soon TGP gona be some sort of tube site

[Senator_x]

Good if you know how to market you product virally.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_marketing


Bad if you don't know how to market. Also, bad if the program owner doesn't want their product out their.

[Greenguy]

Help me understand why you think this is not good for the industry?It's not that it's bad for the industry, but it is bad for general webmasters that make a living with tgps & link lists & free sites & galleries, as it does teach the surfer that they can get a shitload of free movies at one site.

It's sorta like a legit fusker, if that makes sense.

[fusionx]

Bishop is away fly fishing or making babies or racing in the grand prix of monaco or some such adventure. Until he's back from saving the world with only a can opener, some chewing gum and toenail clippers I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have.

One thing off the top - affiliates can certainly use pornotube.com, as long as the TOS of the affiliate company allows it.

For copyrighted content - anything that is reported is removed, it's that easy. Toby - there haven't been any significant questions about it so far, so yeah - we haven't given any answers. Even if a clip is from an affiliate section, if the owner doesn't want it there, it's gone. Simple.

Kron is pretty much correct. Times are a'changin and with the advent of the so-called "web 2.0" and the huge popularity of video sharing, tagging and bookmark sharing sites, Adult needs to keep up.

Of course there will be some growing pains, but things like this have to happen. We can't sit around and let advances in marketing and technology pass by.

Adult used to lead the tech growth on the web.. a shift occurred about three years ago or so.. we definately trail behind now.

[Greenguy]

..and just to clear up any possible confusion (because it's happened in the past) Gonzo - you so speak on behalf of AEBN, correct?

[GonZo]

It's not that it's bad for the industry, but it is bad for general webmasters that make a living with tgps & link lists & free sites & galleries, as it does teach the surfer that they can get a shitload of free movies at one site.

It's sorta like a legit fusker, if that makes sense.


Im sure as a link list owner you will agree that the thumbbed TGPs were bad for link lists. Bit Torrent Sites are the bane of TGPs.

The web evolves at the expense of those who dont seize change.

We've taught the surfer that they can get free porn for many years now. Remember the old addage we all used to chant? Free sites are to tease...pay sites to please.

Now you can see a myraid of freebies within tours that just a few years ago didnt give away as much as an exposed nipple.

[GonZo]

..and just to clear up any possible confusion (because it's happened in the past) Gonzo - you so speak on behalf of AEBN, correct?

I have in the past but above me you have FusionX who speaks on behalf of Pornotube as well as Xpeeps.

If you have any questions on suggestions hes the man to go to.
They are his babies.

[Toby]

Toby - there haven't been any significant questions about it so far, so yeah - we haven't given any answers. Even if a clip is from an affiliate section, if the owner doesn't want it there, it's gone. Simple.I've posed the question in a couple of forums, and this is the first direct reply.

What you're saying is that unless content owners find their content on pornotube and ask for it's removal, it will remain. That may be enough to cover your ass legally, but ethically it's a cop out. You know as well as I do that for every removal request there will be dozens if not hundreds of pics and vids posted without the authorization of the rightful owners.

The only winners I see here are some program owners that will post their own content and AEBN who will redirect traffic to their own programs, with much of that traffic built upon the illegally posted content of others.

[Greenguy]

This is going to be a good discussion |thumb

Im sure as a link list owner you will agree that the thumbbed TGPs were bad for link lists. Bit Torrent Sites are the bane of TGPs....I don't think you can compare those 2.

1st off, I don't think Thumb TGP's were bad for Link Lists - I actually like them, but they do bring up a shitload of 2257 questions (which is probably why I don't have one)

Bit Torrent (and any P2P service) is bad for "webmasters" just like PornoTube is bad for "webmasters" because it really does teach the surfer that you can get content (and a lot of it) for free all at once place.

I'd also throw Guba into this as well, because there are a lot of similarities.

And don't get me wrong - as soon as YouTube became popular, everyone knew there was going to be a porn version - but like these other sites/programs, there's a lot of questions about 2257 & copyrights & surfer submitted content (since the 1st script that allowed you to post content to a website, there's always been that fear of illegal material being posted) And yes, all of those things are really none of my business, because I don't own the company nor do I have any content to worry aobut as far as copyrights.

I assume that most sponsors won't care that their content is on there, because it's free advertising & they'll get sales from it, which is their bottom line.

My concern - and I think the concern of most of the people on this board - is that this is another thing that tgp/linklist & gallery/freesite webmasters have to compete with - and these sites/programs are on a level right off the bat that makes it very hard to compete with.

[babymaker]

no comment from me :D

[Beaver Bob]

I like the idea, as long as there is some kind of limit on the length of video clips (5 minutes?) and the people running it are responsible about copyrighted content.

BTW I read above someone works with pornotube here, how long does it take for your video to upload? I uploaded a 50 second trailer the other night and its still not showing up :( my account id is beaverbob..

I am interested to see if this could be a productive source of traffic. I wouldn't expect it to take the place of other valuable traffic sources such as linklists, tgps, blogs, etc... but my feeling is the more places you can get traffic, the better.

[babymaker]

I uploaded a 50 second trailer the other night and its still not showing up :( my account id is beaverbob..

.

that happens now and then, they are still working on it and it gets like 50+ million visits a day so you just have to post again :)

[GonZo]

This is going to be a good discussion |thumb

I don't think you can compare those 2.

1st off, I don't think Thumb TGP's were bad for Link Lists - I actually like them, but they do bring up a shitload of 2257 questions (which is probably why I don't have one)

Bit Torrent (and any P2P service) is bad for "webmasters" just like PornoTube is bad for "webmasters" because it really does teach the surfer that you can get content (and a lot of it) for free all at once place.

I'd also throw Guba into this as well, because there are a lot of similarities.

And don't get me wrong - as soon as YouTube became popular, everyone knew there was going to be a porn version - but like these other sites/programs, there's a lot of questions about 2257 & copyrights & surfer submitted content (since the 1st script that allowed you to post content to a website, there's always been that fear of illegal material being posted) And yes, all of those things are really none of my business, because I don't own the company nor do I have any content to worry aobut as far as copyrights.

I assume that most sponsors won't care that their content is on there, because it's free advertising & they'll get sales from it, which is their bottom line.

My concern - and I think the concern of most of the people on this board - is that this is another thing that tgp/linklist & gallery/freesite webmasters have to compete with - and these sites/programs are on a level right off the bat that makes it very hard to compete with.

Excellent debate.
Actually gonzo.com was a linklist a long time ago. I jumped to tgps and then thumbed TGPs as it was a quick traffic builder.

2257 issues are an entire different debate all together.

Bottomline is its hard to compete as a true affiliate based webmaster.
Early wisdom used to say why build something of my own when I acn make more money selling others with a fraction of the effort?

Its hell of a lot more effort now and people got greedy with all the stealing tricks and of course this shit with Zango and AFF.

This shit has been going on a long time before with sextracker ... Newton did and excellent interview a while back on it.

Ill do some digging for it but I think you can still see some of this from this quiery. As I recall sextracker was loading a trojan that replaced affilaite codes and cookies with their own. As you can see this ended bad..
http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/search.php?searchid=27418

Ill see if I can find the interview.

[Xallow]

Someone please fill me in, what the crap is PornoTube?

[Beaver Bob]

Someone please fill me in, what the crap is PornoTube?

its basically a clone of the popular website YouTube (http://www.youtube.com), but obviously meant for porn. Incidently, I believe youtube.com was just sold to google for 1.4 billion dollars.

http://www.pornotube.com

[Senator_x]

Excellent debate.
Actually gonzo.com was a linklist a long time ago. I jumped to tgps and then thumbed TGPs as it was a quick traffic builder.

2257 issues are an entire different debate all together.

Bottomline is its hard to compete as a true affiliate based webmaster.
Early wisdom used to say why build something of my own when I acn make more money selling others with a fraction of the effort?

Its hell of a lot more effort now and people got greedy with all the stealing tricks and of course this shit with Zango and AFF.

This shit has been going on a long time before with sextracker ... Newton did and excellent interview a while back on it.

Ill do some digging for it but I think you can still see some of this from this quiery. As I recall sextracker was loading a trojan that replaced affilaite codes and cookies with their own. As you can see this ended bad..
http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/search.php?searchid=27418

Ill see if I can find the interview.

Sextracker was a sore issue for awhile but as you can see "the keep me happy" money flowed into the right place.

ZANGO money is keeping a lot of high-end webmasters happy too.

An adult webmaster today has to own a TGP, LinkList, Blogs, Thousand of AVS satelites, thousands of galleries and very good relationships with the owners of the affiliate programs.

The good relationships with affiliate owners get you in on first new products. Basically, you beta test their product and cash in fast.

Also, adult webmaster have to know CSS like their top of their dicks.

Evolve or die.

[fusionx]

I've posed the question in a couple of forums, and this is the first direct reply.

It's easier and faster if you ask us directly. We don't usually scour the forums to do support or PR/customer service. We usually don't have time.


What you're saying is that unless content owners find their content on pornotube and ask for it's removal, it will remain. That may be enough to cover your ass legally, but ethically it's a cop out. You know as well as I do that for every removal request there will be dozens if not hundreds of pics and vids posted without the authorization of the rightful owners.

Please don't put words in my mouth. What I said was, paraphrasing, if copyrighted content is found and reported we remove it. If a user reports it, we look, and we take it down. And believe me, people report everything. We get so many false positives on content it takes up about 6 hours every day to go through the reports.


The only winners I see here are some program owners that will post their own content and AEBN who will redirect traffic to their own programs, with much of that traffic built upon the illegally posted content of others.

Again, you are making assumptions without even beginning to understand the model we operate under.

Individual webmasters are doing great with the traffic. Many of them host the vids there and use the vids on their own sites - it's free bandwidth. Studios love it so far, and many programs are encouraging their affiliates to use the service. Watermarked content provides excellent free branding, and you can of course put URLs in the description or even titles if you want.

With all that being said, of course we direct traffic to our own VOD sites, and we direct traffic to our partners and advertisers. We do it all through clicked URLs - no blind links, no skimming, nothing like that.

You'll find we run an open, honest program and we play very nicely with others. We probably give more away to affiliates and partners than anyone else in the biz. I'm not talking about schwag - hats, coffee mugs, trips to costa rica.. I'm talking about substantial biz things like bandwidth, free minutes for their surfers, e-mail campaigns for affiliates, all kinds of stuff.

I'm not going to respond tit for tat here, and I'm not going to argue with anyone on message boards, as far as our business models are concerned. As I said earlier, I don't have the time. If you have questions feel free to write to support or call, and we'll answer your questions.

Are you an affiliate of AEBN? Just curious.

[fusionx]

I like the idea, as long as there is some kind of limit on the length of video clips (5 minutes?) and the people running it are responsible about copyrighted content.

BTW I read above someone works with pornotube here, how long does it take for your video to upload? I uploaded a 50 second trailer the other night and its still not showing up :( my account id is beaverbob..

I am interested to see if this could be a productive source of traffic. I wouldn't expect it to take the place of other valuable traffic sources such as linklists, tgps, blogs, etc... but my feeling is the more places you can get traffic, the better.

Is this it? http://www.pornotube.com/media.php?m=73347

I'm not in a position to access the databases right now so I can't check on the uplaod date. I'm guessing you reuploaded it.

There are still some issues with uploads when the site is getting really hammered. The conversion process is a bit fragile yet, and needs to be reworked to make it more bulletproof.

We're adding more feedback, also. Right now, we have an e-mail message that we send to our techies when something fails. When we get the time to reformat it for users we'll turn that on. Right now it's all numbers and codes that no one but the programmers could ever decipher. :)

[Senator_x]

It's easier and faster if you ask us directly. We don't usually scour the forums to do support or PR/customer service. We usually don't have time.



Please don't put words in my mouth. What I said was, paraphrasing, if copyrighted content is found and reported we remove it. If a user reports it, we look, and we take it down. And believe me, people report everything. We get so many false positives on content it takes up about 6 hours every day to go through the reports.



Again, you are making assumptions without even beginning to understand the model we operate under.

Individual webmasters are doing great with the traffic. Many of them host the vids there and use the vids on their own sites - it's free bandwidth. Studios love it so far, and many programs are encouraging their affiliates to use the service. Watermarked content provides excellent free branding, and you can of course put URLs in the description or even titles if you want.

With all that being said, of course we direct traffic to our own VOD sites, and we direct traffic to our partners and advertisers. We do it all through clicked URLs - no blind links, no skimming, nothing like that.

You'll find we run an open, honest program and we play very nicely with others. We probably give more away to affiliates and partners than anyone else in the biz. I'm not talking about schwag - hats, coffee mugs, trips to costa rica.. I'm talking about substantial biz things like bandwidth, free minutes for their surfers, e-mail campaigns for affiliates, all kinds of stuff.

I'm not going to respond tit for tat here, and I'm not going to argue with anyone on message boards, as far as our business models are concerned. As I said earlier, I don't have the time. If you have questions feel free to write to support or call, and we'll answer your questions.

Are you an affiliate of AEBN? Just curious.

Branding is so important, I can't believe people can't see this.

Brand your product, upload it to PornoTube and repeat.

|banghead|

[fusionx]

it gets like 50+ million visits a day

Soon, soon!

We aren't quite that high yet.. close, but not quite |loony|

[Greenguy]

...Please don't put words in my mouth. What I said was, paraphrasing, if copyrighted content is found and reported we remove it. If a user reports it, we look, and we take it down. And believe me, people report everything. We get so many false positives on content it takes up about 6 hours every day to go through the reports....Don't take this the wrong way, but when you allow anyone with a valid email address to upload content to your servers as well as police the files on your server, you don't really have the right to complain that it eats up a lot of time.

....Also, adult webmaster have to know CSS like their top of their dicks...I've been a webmaster for 10+_ years & the 1st time I even put css on a site was a couple months ago - and I hate it & I'm probably going to stop using it.

Branding is so important, I can't believe people can't see this.

Brand your product, upload it to PornoTube and repeat....The argument here isn't the importance of branding. |crazy|

And, I don't know if you've looked around too much, but a majority of the people that post on this board do not have their own content to brand & upload anyplace.

Go re-read my 4th post: "This is going to be a good discussion...." & hopefully that'll explain what the issue is.

[Jeremy]

Im sure as a link list owner you will agree that the thumbbed TGPs were bad for link lists.

AdultBuffet was bad for Links Lists.

ThumbTGPs were bad for just about everybody. Especially when people decided it was better to have a fancy schmancy design with lots of big thumbs than any banners or advertising. Watch the counter spin, baby!

Senator_X - branding is eventually worth fuck all if it doesn't convert into traffic and sales. Don't believ all the hype :-)

fusionx - Good luck with it. It's a fine line you'e walking. I wonder if Web2.0 may be about to explode into law suits etc (Universal vs MYSpace etc etc). In the meantime, mind if I borrow AEBN's content library? I'll remove it if it's found and reported. ;-))))

[Toby]

It's easier and faster if you ask us directly. We don't usually scour the forums to do support or PR/customer service. We usually don't have time.Som of my other questions were responded to in those threads, but not that one.

Please don't put words in my mouth. What I said was, paraphrasing, if copyrighted content is found and reported we remove it. If a user reports it, we look, and we take it down. And believe me, people report everything. We get so many false positives on content it takes up about 6 hours every day to go through the reports.Seems to me we just said the same thing using different words. The fact remains, only copyrighted items that are reported are removed. Given the number of uploads, whether 6 hours or 60 hours are spent per day, there is still a significant amount of unauthorized content that remains.

Again, you are making assumptions without even beginning to understand the model we operate under.I can only go by what I see on the web site. If there's more to the model please fill us all in.

I do not have my own content to brand and upload. Like the majority of the people on this board I make my living promoting programs owned by others.

As for using your bandwidth, thanks but I prefer to keep my stuff on a server I have control of myself. If a movie gallery is submitted to any of my TGP's with the video hosted on pornotube it wouldn't even get past my submit script, and that's without any modifications to the out of the box settings.

Are you an affiliate of AEBN? Just curious.Yes, as a matter of fact I am. Ask Gonzo about me he can fill you in.

Bottom line, in my opinion, the end does not justify the means.

[Toby]

....In the meantime, mind if I borrow AEBN's content library? I'll remove it if it's found and reported. ;-))))DING DING DING DING, give the man a Kewpie Doll. That's the whole discussion in a nutshell.

[DJilla]

What you're saying is that unless content owners find their content on pornotube and ask for it's removal, it will remain. That may be enough to cover your ass legally, but ethically it's a cop out. You know as well as I do that for every removal request there will be dozens if not hundreds of pics and vids posted without the authorization of the rightful owners.

IMHO Not really. This is simply the traditional model that has existed in law for copyright infringement forever. Your negative effects are no different than all those xerox pages out there but when there becomes an obvious and egregious infringement the owner serves notice and etc. Really I think there is not even an ethical quedstion involved. I think you're just seeing a competitive model change and its name is VIDEO. Don't be a hater, be a player, or a quiter.

The only winners I see here are some program owners that will post their own content and AEBN who will redirect traffic to their own programs, with much of that traffic built upon the illegally posted content of others.

Though I technically agree, its only because this Pornotuby thing is the first name recognition/bw/scripted site. As others come online to compete for surfers they will add to the choices of type and manner of directing, getting, receiving, traffic and biz relationships.

I think you may be seeing a serious threat to text based LL's from two approaches, first surfers are clearly voting for video, so LL's may get relagated to the visually impaired and accessible audience if they fail to keep up. Secondly, video sites are a direct way for content providers to present their wares directly to the surfer bypassing the middleman LL owners who had previously directed them.

So the next question out there is how do you do this thing and how much bandwidth/computing power does it take?|huh

[camfrog]

Its good if you want to embed some movie clips into your blog.

[Beaver Bob]

Is this it? http://www.pornotube.com/media.php?m=73347

I'm not in a position to access the databases right now so I can't check on the uplaod date. I'm guessing you reuploaded it.

There are still some issues with uploads when the site is getting really hammered. The conversion process is a bit fragile yet, and needs to be reworked to make it more bulletproof.

We're adding more feedback, also. Right now, we have an e-mail message that we send to our techies when something fails. When we get the time to reformat it for users we'll turn that on. Right now it's all numbers and codes that no one but the programmers could ever decipher. :)

yes thats it, thank you |shake|

right on.. so instead of putting that trailer on my server and eating up my bandwidth, i could just embed that on my blog?

either way, i'm interested to see what happens with this site.

[Toby]

...Really I think there is not even an ethical quedstion involved. I think you're just seeing a competitive model change and its name is VIDEO. Don't be a hater, be a player, or a quiter.We're just going to have to agree to disagree here. I think there is a considerable ethical question when the sites enormous traffic base is built upon a the availability of a huge amount of free porn, much of which is uploaded illegally. See the last sentence of Jeremy's post (#29) where he places the shoe on the other foot.

[GonZo]

DING DING DING DING, give the man a Kewpie Doll. That's the whole discussion in a nutshell.

Just a minor point. That content isnt AEBN's in most cases. Its the studios.

[fusionx]

fusionx - Good luck with it. It's a fine line you'e walking. I wonder if Web2.0 may be about to explode into law suits etc (Universal vs MYSpace etc etc). In the meantime, mind if I borrow AEBN's content library? I'll remove it if it's found and reported. ;-))))

Feel free! We make a ton of stuff available, and you can give all your surfers 30 free minutes :)

[fusionx]

Don't take this the wrong way, but when you allow anyone with a valid email address to upload content to your servers as well as police the files on your server, you don't really have the right to complain that it eats up a lot of time.

No complaints at all! It's just part of doing business. Sorry it came off as a whine :)

[nekrom]

I just see adult variants of youtube as natural progression. Over the past few years, newer business models has always bumped the one before it down the ladder.

I say adapt and get in on the ground level. So you have an advantage for when it becomes the norm. :)

-N

[Senator_x]

I just see adult variants of youtube as natural progression. Over the past few years, newer business models has always bumped the one before it down the ladder.

I say adapt and get in on the ground level. So you have an advantage for when it becomes the norm. :)

-N

Evolve or die.

An adult webmaster today has to be well rounded to make a living.

I just can't submit to linklist, tgps or dumps for traffic. I have to generate traffic and execute.

Some people can lay back and collect big fat checks because they were first.

Trust me they will evolve.

[DJilla]

We're just going to have to agree to disagree here. I think there is a considerable ethical question when the sites enormous traffic base is built upon a the availability of a huge amount of free porn.

We don't even disagree I totally see where you're coming from and you are technically right. However, the market based reality is 21st century. Some CEO (Sun I think) years ago annoyed me with the proclamation that "privacy is dead, get over it" but he was right. The same can be said about "copyright is dead". The present model is just thrashing on the doctor's table and you're seeing the reality of it in things like we discussing here.

I would suggest that it is BECAUSE there is so much free porn out there that a site like porntube could be viable.... not the other way around. There has been way too much free porn out there becasue of the intense competition of having so many people in the business who really probably should'nt be there.

This phenomonon has been predicted for many years depending on broadband bandwidth infrastructure growth.

I totally agree that a company doing this had better have some good lawyers though 'cause they'll be in a dozen state courts on lots of bullshit cases.

But video is coming and coming FAST and its clearly what surfers want. WM's who want to stay better figure out how to do it or some version of it. Also, think.... how video transcends the marketplace and limitations of web language and reach. How many Mexican nationals are here on the board? A video site might be seeing international conversions go through the roof.

[Greenguy]

...Some people can lay back and collect big fat checks because they were first...Would you like to direct that at anyone in particular or was it just a general statement?

[Senator_x]

Would you like to direct that at anyone in particular or was it just a general statement?

Intented for general consumption.


Pornotube has a model already established and proving to produce traffic.
Is PornoTube profitable? <---That is another discussion.
Does it have traffic? Yes.

A more savvy webmaster can exploit(in the good way) PornoTube's traffic for their own websites.

[Greenguy]

...A more savvy webmaster can exploit(in the good way) PornoTube's traffic for their own websites.How so?

[[BV]]

Good for program owners who want to brand their products, bad for webmaster since they can't brand other peoples products as their own.

Webmaster with original products(amateurish stuff) can benefit by adding movies with their website URL watermarked. This can drive traffic virally just like youtube does for mainstream sites.

Affiliate webmasters can buy some video clips and brand them with their own url. (ATGP, MGP, or Free Site owner could put their url on the video)

The problem now though is, if the video shows anything more than titties their has to be a 2257 disclaimer in the first part of the video.

I don't see hardly anyone doing this though. Very scary if you ask me.

[emmanuelle]

I've been wondering for some time why the owners of linklists, tgps and similar types of sites have not adapted their marketing plans to include newer opportunities. It wouldn't be a huge undertaking to comission a video clip or assemble galleries/ freesites that promote their link list as a whole, rather than the individual sponsors. Think of it like a commercial... "At ____.com you'll find....." You could get really creative with this stuff, and not be limited by how an individual paysite or sponsor needs to be represented. The galleries/ freesites could be submitted or traded- probably more effective than a 120x60 recip, and the clips could be used in places such as pornotube or peer-to-peer.
Just like beer commercials, they don't even need to show the product, but maybe reflect an attitude. The possibilities are endless.

[GonZo]

Intented for general consumption.


Pornotube has a model already established and proving to produce traffic.
Is PornoTube profitable? <---That is another discussion.
Does it have traffic? Yes.

A more savvy webmaster can exploit(in the good way) PornoTube's traffic for their own websites.


Do you work in Charlotte in a role Im unaware of?
Your making a lot of uninformed assumtions here.

[Greenguy]

... or assemble galleries/ freesites that promote their link list as a whole, rather than the individual sponsors. Think of it like a commercial... "At ____.com you'll find....." You could get really creative with this stuff, and not be limited by how an individual paysite or sponsor needs to be represented. The galleries/ freesites could be submitted or traded- probably more effective than a 120x60 recip...I've seen some free sites that were nothing but advertisements for a link list & I've seen a lot of them that have something along the line of "This site & many others like it can be found at...."

[Toby]

OK, in keeping with the can't beat'em, join'em line of thought. No one has asked the sixty-four thousand dollar question.

How well does this traffic convert if you are successful at diverting some of it to your LL or TGP? Just how much time and effort is justified?

[GonZo]

OK, in keeping with the can't beat'em, join'em line of thought. No one has asked the sixty-four thousand dollar question.

How well does this traffic convert if you are successful at diverting some of it to your LL or TGP? Just how much time and effort is justified?

I can answer that question. Weve seen great conversion running clips that go directly to Squirting Carly at Fat Fucking Cash.

And if you have a unique or eye cathicng title or video clip I can pump traffic to any free site that Ive had by putting the url in a few clips.

[[BV]]

OK, in keeping with the can't beat'em, join'em line of thought. No one has asked the sixty-four thousand dollar question.

How well does this traffic convert if you are successful at diverting some of it to your LL or TGP? Just how much time and effort is justified?

For a sponsor you can't get any more targeted traffic that type in traffic. It converts the best. Hands down.

Not to sure if you will get the same conversions from people typing into a linklist or tgp but it still has to be pretty good.

If I were an affiliate I would buy a domain name for each sponsor and redirect that domain right to the sponsor tour on it's own campaign.

You see this method being utilized a lot with USENET and P2P

[atariFu]

The part about 'evolve or die', well youtube already seems old to me. Sure now we have a porno-tube, where was the evolution in that jump.

Greenie: I can't believe you dissed css man, it is so useful :)

Still though.. you couldn't call it 'boob-tube'? :)