Setting Up A Directory: My Adventures

[kristian]

skip this part if you want ...


I think turning 30 is the reason for creating this thread.

It was August, 2002, that I found myself alone in my home office and in need of a new career. I had just sold my business: a double-glazing firm. I had a home, a bit of cash in the bank, and 2 kids and an almost-wife depending on me. What the hell was I going to do? I wanted to work from home - doing something - and decided I would give myself until the new year to figure it out. If, in January, I was still sat staring at a monitor, it would be time to find myself a boss!

I was educated in economics. Now, anyone educated in economics will understand why I'd want to chose anything but economics for a career. I decided I had two abilities going for me : I was a pervert and I could write screenplays. Since Hollywood wasn't calling, and my uncle (an indie filmmaker) was into arthouse and not horror (my niche), perversion ruled the day! I began to analyse my favorite porn sites (link-o-rama (http://www.link-o-rama.com/), being one of them) to see how they made money. This led me to my first sponsor, Flash Cash (http://www.flashcash.com/), and my first webmaster-friend, Jim (who ran FC at the time).

In the intervening years, I have literally tried everything: galleries, tgp, free sites, forums, blogs, mail, dating sites, newsgroups, ppc, seo and enough marketing software to make your head spin. A lot of my stuff failed, but - either by blind luck or divine intervention - enough of it worked to make me feel successful.

This leads me back to this thread and turning 30.

I hit the big Three-Oh (Oh-Fuck-I'm-Old) in June. Still in possession (or possessed by) 2 kids and 1 almost-wife, I took a critical look at my career. Financially-speaking, it was all going swimmingly, but something fundamental was missing. I once read Greenguy refering to LOR as his baby. In short, friends and neighbors, I wanted a baby. A bunch of internet cash cows are fine and dandy, but I wanted something more substantial, something to which I could devote energy and enthusiasm, something that was relatively secure, something I could leave to either one of my kids should they become perverts too!

A link list or directory (and I'm still unsure of the difference, so feel free to educate me) is to be my baby. And I intend to be a good father and raise it for many years to come.

down to business ...


The purpose of this thread is to document my adventures in setting up and running a link list. I'm a firm believer in sharing the wealth. If you watch My Name Is Earl, you'll know why. And there is no greater wealth than that of knowledge. I'm sure we can all learn something by watching me succeed or fuck up and, of course, this thread will be a perfect opportunity for us all to discuss ideas, share knowledge, and build lasting business relationships.

I will document every stage and include all costs, all earnings, and all sponsor screen caps for 12 months of the site being active. Nothing at all will be hidden. In effect, the site will be a transparent entity, through which any interested webmaster can look.

When setting up the site, I'll not only provide costs and links to my chosen elements (scripts, design, traffic), but will give alternatives so anyone on any budget can follow the ideas and information here to setup their own link list.

So, there you have it, : my reasons and my mission. If you've ever wanted to setup a link list, I hope you'll find this thread helpful, and will contribute your own thoughts and experiences to make it even more helpful for others. If you're a veteran of the industry, I hope you'll also participate and share your wisdom.

Kristian

[Greenguy]

1st off, welcome back kristian |waves|

Secondly, this project is backed by Jim & myself |thumb

We feel that this would be a great step-by-step look into what it takes to set up a Link List (which links to only Free Sites & is not this strange thing called a "directory" - lol) kristian has spelled all that out above, but the one thing that will make this work will be the actual numbers. How much it costs him as far as time & money as well as how much he makes - so it's almost like looking at my stats if I posted actual numbers :D

So if you can help kristian with any questions he has, please do so. If you can't help, then hopefully you can learn |shake|

[Fido]

It will be VERY hard to make some noticeable $$$ in the first 12 months of LL's life. Anyway - good luck on your journey :)

[Greenguy]

It will be VERY hard to make some noticeable $$$ in the first 12 months of LL's life. Anyway - good luck on your journey :)Oddly enough, I told that to kristian when he approached me about this project :D

[plateman]

about 3 to 4 years, one of the biggest things a LL needs in search engine traffic and with the explosion of new LL the last 3 or 4 years it's very very hard to get any love from google with a LL of 2 to 3 years old.. I'll tell you what you need the most important thing - loyal submitters that will stay submitting for the long haul, you need there content and most important the back links, thats the thing that you need tons of to rank in google and other engines..

from my experiance you could have a decent traffic flow, but if you don't have any SE traffic for niche terms your not gonna make hardly any sales...

also dont start with a lot of categories that you cant add links to on a regular basis, se's love fresh content so having pages that don't get many submissions to hurts a LL IMO...

plus you gotta be willing to build feeder pages to send some traffic to it..

also dont buy any traffic unless its well stocked with enough links to get a few bookmarkers... another thing that buying traffic once and awhile will help is keeping your submitters interested in still submitting..

also be willing to work on it for next to nothing in return for a long time..

I hope that info is helpfull and on line with most LL owners..

also all those category trades you see on some of the LL's surprisingly dont send a whole lot of hits, and very very few sales as most of all the trades are towards the bottom where most of the free lookers run out of links and go to a trade, but it is also possible to get buyers from trades but not often....

[kristian]

Greenguy -- Thanks a lot to you and Jim for your support on this and cheers for the welcome back!

[kristian]

It will be VERY hard to make some noticeable $$$ in the first 12 months of LL's life. Anyway - good luck on your journey :)


I agree, although I wish it weren't so! I'm looking at this like setting up a store in town or the local mall. If I break even in the first year, excellent. If not, then it's pretty much par for the course.

[kristian]

Plateman -- Your LL rocks, dude. Hope you'll keep giving advice as we go along. As to your advice so far: excellent stuff. I'm going the 1980s route here in my office and jotting down stuff in my shiny new notepad. Have added all of that. I might be asking your advice on feeder pages when I am active, if that is alright. :D

[Preacher]

Wow, this is going to be a very interesting thread. I'm especially interested to see how your experience stacks up to mine. My guess is you will do better having one foot in the door already, with traffic trades, feeders, networking and whatnot.

If you're curious about anything a new list goes through or anything, from a new lists perspective, just ask. :D It can be a frustrating road sometimes, toolbar-PR drops, traffic drops, loss of good submitters, loss of decent rankings on something you ranked well on a week ago.

But hopefully patience will be rewarded. |thumb

[kristian]

We have a ton of options here. As I will make a habit of doing, I'm just going to write what's on my mind. I'm not trying to educate here or anything, just brainstorming, and looking forward to suggestions, ideas, you name it.

One philosophy for choosing your porn niche is to go with what you know and love. Another philosophy is to decide on a gap in the market and fill it. I might try a bit of both.

Here are some options:

- General Link List
- Niche Link List
- Micro-Niche Link List (shemale midgets, for instance)
- All Pic Link List
- All Movie Link List
- Blog Link List

Cracking the market as a general link list might be creating extra work for ourselves, I think. And the problem with going too niche-specific would be getting the content. I'm thinking not too many of us submit shemale midget free sites. :D

I think the gaps with the greatest available content exist in movies and blogs.

Since a blog link list would (IMO) require a customised script to make full use of syndication possibilities, I think I'm going to take the movie route.

Lots of competition, sure, but not as much as pics and movies. There also seems to be interest in the niche from submitters (scanning the threads here on gg&j).

Right, ok, so I'm decided : MOVIES! |attention

[kristian]

I already forgot one of the reasons for this thread. lol Although I THINK I'm decided on movies, if anyone has better ideas, just hollar!

[kristian]

Wow, this is going to be a very interesting thread. I'm especially interested to see how your experience stacks up to mine. My guess is you will do better having one foot in the door already, with traffic trades, feeders, networking and whatnot.

If you're curious about anything a new list goes through or anything, from a new lists perspective, just ask. :D It can be a frustrating road sometimes, toolbar-PR drops, traffic drops, loss of good submitters, loss of decent rankings on something you ranked well on a week ago.

But hopefully patience will be rewarded. |thumb

Hi Preacher |waves|

Very pleased to have you here! I hope we can all do well together - with sharing info and networking together. Now that you've made the offer, you can count on me picking your brain. I really know bugger all about running a LL. You'll get sick of me bugging you eventually :D

[Greenguy]

I recently opened a general movie link list - http://www.pornmovielinks.com/ - go chew on that for a bit :D

I'd actually suggest a niche specific movie link list.

[kristian]

I recently opened a general movie link list - http://www.pornmovielinks.com/ - go chew on that for a bit :D

I'd actually suggest a niche specific movie link list.

Trust you to have the best domain already |cry|

Going to study that for a bit anyway dude, thanks.

Do you think I'd get the content for a niche movie list? I must admit, I like the idea.

[Preacher]

Hi Preacher |waves|

Very pleased to have you here! I hope we can all do well together - with sharing info and networking together. Now that you've made the offer, you can count on me picking your brain. I really know bugger all about running a LL. You'll get sick of me bugging you eventually :D
No worries, though sometimes my brain is too adled to pick. Feel free to add me to your ICQ, I'm online a lot.

And good luck! |thumb

[alessandro]

Great idea of starting a thread on this subject. I started my first LL 2 months ago and I need a lot of knowledge/advices on how to grow it. I wish I'll find them here and be able tp participate with my little experience and knowledge.
You're right kristian when you say there's "Lots of competition, sure, but not as much as pics and movies" in the movies only market, however, if possible I'd love to talk mare about Niche Link Lists as I have 3 older domains that I turned into niche LLs but haven't had much success with them so far.

[kristian]

Great idea of starting a thread on this subject. I started my first LL 2 months ago and I need a lot of knowledge/advices on how to grow it. I wish I'll find them here and be able tp participate with my little experience and knowledge.
You're right kristian when you say there's "Lots of competition, sure, but not as much as pics and movies" in the movies only market, however, if possible I'd love to talk mare about Niche Link Lists as I have 3 older domains that I turned into niche LLs but haven't had much success with them so far.

Great to have you here alessandro |waves|

I like Greenguy's idea of a niche list for movies. Getting enough content is all that bothers me but it's probably not a problem for the more popular niches.

[alessandro]

You're right regarding the most popular niches being easy to find content, but also referring to plateman's statement regarding SE traffic, how hard/easy do you think it would be to get some traffic for popular niches keywords + movies ?

EDIT: my guess is, not so hard if you have a netword of 100+ domains already running and with some traffic on them. I would take some time thought to find good link partners and quality backlinks.

[ronnie]

Great idea for a thread, should be interesting. I think your ahead of the game because your really planning and really thinking it out, believe thats where most people drop the ball.

You've got to set goals and believe in them 100% and do what it takes to make them a reality, taking massive action. My new word this month is "Power Goals", I like it..:)

ronnie

[natalie]

Hi Kristian
This is a great idea for an ongoing thread. I will watching and chiming when I can put a coherent comment towards things.
I agree that a movie linklist is a great way to go, if it was niched though what niche are you thinking of? I have recently started trying out movie free sites so I would be happy to help you fill her up when its ready. I only submit to 32 but I always leave a spot or two that I change to test new (and old) linklists.

[kristian]

You're right regarding the most popular niches being easy to find content, but also referring to plateman's statement regarding SE traffic, how hard/easy do you think it would be to get some traffic for popular niches keywords + movies ?

EDIT: my guess is, not so hard if you have a netword of 100+ domains already running and with some traffic on them. I would take some time thought to find good link partners and quality backlinks.

You gave me some good ideas there dude. Will expand when I'm done.

[Greenguy]

...Do you think I'd get the content for a niche movie list? I must admit, I like the idea.For some of the general niches you will - like blonde or teen or pornstars off the top of my head.

They you make sub categories for those - like blonde amateurs, blonde lesbians, solo blondes, shaved blondes, teen blondes, petite blonde, bbw blondes, etc

[kristian]

Great idea for a thread, should be interesting. I think your ahead of the game because your really planning and really thinking it out, believe thats where most people drop the ball.

You've got to set goals and believe in them 100% and do what it takes to make them a reality, taking massive action. My new word this month is "Power Goals", I like it..:)

ronnie

Thanks for the encouragement, Ronnie :) Your sites kick ass. Glad to have you here!

[kristian]

Hi Kristian
This is a great idea for an ongoing thread. I will watching and chiming when I can put a coherent comment towards things.
I agree that a movie linklist is a great way to go, if it was niched though what niche are you thinking of? I have recently started trying out movie free sites so I would be happy to help you fill her up when its ready. I only submit to 32 but I always leave a spot or two that I change to test new (and old) linklists.

Hi Natalie |waves|

My first submitter! |party

I'm not sure of the niche yet. I'm basically torn between a general movie list and a niche one. I can see pros and cons for both. But if I do go niche, the chances are that we'd be talking asian, bbw, mature or shemale. I'll make up my mind soon and would be glad of your sites thats for sure. :)

[kristian]

For some of the general niches you will - like blonde or teen or pornstars off the top of my head.

They you make sub categories for those - like blonde amateurs, blonde lesbians, solo blondes, shaved blondes, teen blondes, petite blonde, bbw blondes, etc

Looking into this now dude. I can see how it would work if I break it down like that. Will post what I come up with soon.

[MrYum]

Hey now! This is an awesome idea |thumb

I agree that you'll definitely have a leg up in a few areas. Being known goes a long way for various things and having a solid plan makes a huge difference.

I converted an old hub into my link list several months ago. Tis a long arduous road for sure, but it's never boring :D

Just wait til you start reviewing sites!

Anyway, hey...good to meet ya Kristian. As others have mentioned, feel free to hit me up anytime. I'll look forward to contributing in this thread...and learning from your trials and tribulations :)

[kristian]

Very glad to have you here, MrYum! |waves|

Those site reviews have me jittery already. They have the potential to be 4 times worse than galleries! |shocking|

Anyway great to meet you dude and looking forward to the fun we should have here!

[kristian]

Must get some sleep now. Thanks to everyone for the interest and encouragement.

Right now I'm just trying to decide on general movie list or niche list. And, if niche, which niche? Also buying some domains as I brainstorm. Will likely use domains I don't use as feeders and probably give away the odd one or two in competitions or whatever. Will post all the details, links and costs, first thing in the morning.

:)

[Jel]

Hi Kristian,

Looks to be the start of a very intersting thread. First off, best of luck (for want of a better word) with the project |thumb

For what it's worth, a small time LL owners input on trying to make it in a big LL owners world:

The right script is a critical choice, the one I have atm is not the best, and I know this adds a lot of time to my work day. It's also not the best for catching or red-flagging possible cheaters, which further adds to the work-time.

What others have said about making feeder sites/galleries, it's worth blowing off making a sponsor oriented freesite or gallery now and then to push a page on your LL. Gives a little boost, and hopefully will add some of those golden bookmarkers.

Again what others have said about not expecting to see any worthwhile return for maybe a year or more, it's extremely hard work maintaining a new (and I guess old :) ) LL, I almost gave up a while back, but am now glad that I didn't, a new LL is very much a long term project, something you'll hear a lot, but it doesn't truly sink in until it's you doing the long term waiting.

Don't skimp on being firm in your rules. Some days you'll be tempted to list a site you kinda don't want to, just for some content. That's a mistake that will come back and bite you in the ass further down the road if you succumb to it.

That's about it from this little and still inexperienced guy, hope it helps a little at least.

[Useless]

I'd suggest using an old domain that doesn't have anything special on the root. It doesn't matter if you have galleries or sites or wild chimpanzees roaming its subdirectories. In fact, it's a good thing if it already has some pages listed in the SEs. In my experience, and from what I heard around here, a new domain will hold you back in the SEs. So, go old.

As much as it would be nice to have a great name like the one GG has, I wouldn't worry about the name itself as long as it's somewhat general or non-specific. (Hell, I transitioned a TGP into a general link list with the word 'wives' in the name and barely anyone submits wives sites to me.) If you must have a new movie specific name, I just checked and "this-domain-sucks-but-greenguy-from-link-o-rama-took-pornmovielinks.com" is available. :D

[roba59]

I registered an expired domain. Does that count as new one or as old one??

[glowlite]

I'd suggest using an old domain that doesn't have anything special on the root. It doesn't matter if you have galleries or sites or wild chimpanzees roaming its subdirectories. In fact, it's a good thing if it already has some pages listed in the SEs. In my experience, and from what I heard around here, a new domain will hold you back in the SEs. So, go old.

"I'd suggest using an old domain that doesn't have anything special on the root."

".... it's a good thing if it already has some pages listed in the SEs."

WTF ?????????????

I thought it was "Useless Warrior", not "Clueless Warrior".

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Greenguy]

glowlite - can you explain why it would be a BAD thing to use an existing domain that already had SE listings & spiders coming thru & whatnot?

[Fonz]

Hey kristian, long time no see dude |waves|

And your re-entry hasn't gone by unnoticed I see :)
Great idea and I'm looking forward to see how this project evolves.

[kristian]

Hi Kristian,

Looks to be the start of a very intersting thread. First off, best of luck (for want of a better word) with the project |thumb

For what it's worth, a small time LL owners input on trying to make it in a big LL owners world:

Thanks for the encouragement, Jel! No need to be modest. :D I've seen your site all over the SERPS. Looking forward to your participation.


The right script is a critical choice, the one I have atm is not the best, and I know this adds a lot of time to my work day. It's also not the best for catching or red-flagging possible cheaters, which further adds to the work-time.


This is something I'm hoping to talk about here today. Looking at the available scripts, I have my own favorites. But, as you've spelled out, you really only know what's a good script once you use it. Anyway will be posting links to some and anyone can discuss the pros and cons.


What others have said about making feeder sites/galleries, it's worth blowing off making a sponsor oriented freesite or gallery now and then to push a page on your LL. Gives a little boost, and hopefully will add some of those golden bookmarkers.


This stuff really interests me. I know how I'd approach this normally but I'm thinking there is a specific way for feeding link lists. I've bought a few domains that I'll be using for this purpose.


Again what others have said about not expecting to see any worthwhile return for maybe a year or more, it's extremely hard work maintaining a new (and I guess old :) ) LL, I almost gave up a while back, but am now glad that I didn't, a new LL is very much a long term project, something you'll hear a lot, but it doesn't truly sink in until it's you doing the long term waiting.


It's encouraging to know there's light at the end of the tunnel. The best way I can view this, motivationally, is to look at it like an offline business. The thing with internet buisnesses is there are ways to make a quick buck and ways to make a steady, dependable buck. If I broke even at the end of the year with a shop in my town, for instance, I'd be happy. Its great to hear you've come through the tunnel.


Don't skimp on being firm in your rules. Some days you'll be tempted to list a site you kinda don't want to, just for some content. That's a mistake that will come back and bite you in the ass further down the road if you succumb to it.


I could have seen myself doing this as well. Will remember this one definitely.


That's about it from this little and still inexperienced guy, hope it helps a little at least.


You're too modest but very happy to have you sharing your knowledge!

[Useless]

glowlite - can you explain why it would be a BAD thing to use an existing domain that already had SE listings & spiders coming thru & whatnot?That little fuck is still whimpering over this thread (http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?t=29930). I'm choosing to not reply to him here because this is going to be a thread worth not fucking up. I think the experienced webmasters here understand the inherent value of older domains.

[kristian]

I'd suggest using an old domain that doesn't have anything special on the root. It doesn't matter if you have galleries or sites or wild chimpanzees roaming its subdirectories. In fact, it's a good thing if it already has some pages listed in the SEs. In my experience, and from what I heard around here, a new domain will hold you back in the SEs. So, go old.

As much as it would be nice to have a great name like the one GG has, I wouldn't worry about the name itself as long as it's somewhat general or non-specific. (Hell, I transitioned a TGP into a general link list with the word 'wives' in the name and barely anyone submits wives sites to me.) If you must have a new movie specific name, I just checked and "this-domain-sucks-but-greenguy-from-link-o-rama-took-pornmovielinks.com" is available. :D


Yet again, you prove the irony behind your name dude. The reason a new domain hasn't concerned me much is because of the long haul factor. But you are right, it is going to affect me in the short term. I think google look at factors which suggest stability: length of ownership and number of years registered.

I have a couple of movie-related domains that are almost 2 years old. What do you think about these?

MovieLinkList.com

MrsMovies.com

Do you like them?

[kristian]

Hey kristian, long time no see dude |waves|

And your re-entry hasn't gone by unnoticed I see :)
Great idea and I'm looking forward to see how this project evolves.

Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, Fonz! |headbang|

It's been too long and thanks dude :)

[Useless]

MovieLinkList.com

MrsMovies.com

Do you like them?You've owned "movielinklist.com" for 2 years and you're asking my advice? ;) I'm not very fond of mrsmovies.com, but movielinklist has a certian ring of the obvious to it. I like it.

[Greenguy]

That little fuck is still whimpering over this thread (http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?t=29930)...Ahhh - ok - that explain why Jim's ignoring him in the Javes thread as well :)

[kristian]

I registered an expired domain. Does that count as new one or as old one??

Hi Roba :)

There are some experienced expired domain buyers. Unfortunately, I'm not one of them. lol Here is something (http://www.v7n.com/expired-domains.php) though.

[kristian]

"I'd suggest using an old domain that doesn't have anything special on the root."

".... it's a good thing if it already has some pages listed in the SEs."

WTF ?????????????

I thought it was "Useless Warrior", not "Clueless Warrior".

Correct me if I'm wrong.

This is sound advice from UW, dude. Consider yourself corrected. :D

[kristian]

You've owned "movielinklist.com" for 2 years and you're asking my advice? ;) I'm not very fond of mrsmovies.com, but movielinklist has a certian ring of the obvious to it. I like it.

Your site is kicking a-hole in the SERPS dude. Get used to it. I'll be asking your advice every fucking day. lol

Will move MovieLinkList.com to the head of the general list. I like it for branding. Just wish it had a keyphrase I'm gunning for.

[docholly]

Great Thread and Thanks Kristen for starting it and GG&J for giving it legs and wings. |thumb

I'm with UW.. I love that name mrsmovies.com but the obvious choice would be movielinklist.com.

This will be an interesting watch and perhaps one of our many hubs will finally hatch to a LL. :D *ducking from tart*

[alessandro]

That's exactly what I did, I converted an almost 2 years old domain into a general linklist ( the domain had PR, pages listed and some traffic already ) and several 1-2 years old niche domains into niche LLs. I have to say it's way better to turn an old domain into a LL instead of starting with a newly registered domain. It's easier for finding linking partners too.

[Simon]

Hiya Kristian |waves|

I didn't know you before, but it's nice to have you here now. |shake|

This thread is one that I hope will be with us a long time. Like you, I've tried almost every part of the adult online biz over the years. For me it was TGPs and LLs that I hadn't really done much with until now.

I recently took an old domain (www.xratedtv.com) and converted it into what will become a site that lists both free movie sites and movie galleries. I agree that using an older domain can give you a little jump on things. You can see these two Google searches for direct evidence that it's worth using old domains when you can. The new site was at #2 for both of these searches when I posted this:
x-rated porn movies (http://www.google.com/search?q=x-rated+porn+movies) and x-rated porn videos (http://www.google.com/search?q=x-rated+porn+videos)

Right now my XRT site only has sponsor movie galleries, as I practice learning some of the back end, so it's easy to call it a general MGP. I'm not sure exactly what the correct term for it will be when it has both free movie sites and movie galleries in its listings. I don't guess the surfers will care much though, as long as they find things they like there every time they visit. :)

I'm about ready to begin the LL additions for my XRT site, and I'm adding a blog there too, which is also something new for me. So this thread could not come at at better time as far as I'm concerned. I know I'll learn a lot from the more experienced posters here, and I'll be happy to contribute any interesting, corroborating, or contradictory evidence I uncover in my own site development as you move along with your project.

All good wishes for much success! |thumb


Simon

P.S. I have a few other old domains that I'm looking at for a TGP (photos+movies) and for some pure LL+blog combinations. I wouldn't be surprised if this thread inspires me to move a little faster on at least one of those. :)

[kristian]

Great Thread and Thanks Kristen for starting it and GG&J for giving it legs and wings. |thumb

I'm with UW.. I love that name mrsmovies.com but the obvious choice would be movielinklist.com.

This will be an interesting watch and perhaps one of our many hubs will finally hatch to a LL. :D *ducking from tart*

Another vote for MovieLinkList.com!

Good to have you here, docholly |waves|

[kristian]

Hiya Kristian |waves|

I didn't know you before, but it's nice to have you here now. |shake|

This thread is one that I hope will be with us a long time. Like you, I've tried almost every part of the adult online biz over the years. For me it was TGPs and LLs that I hadn't really done much with until now.

I recently took an old domain (www.xratedtv.com) and converted it into what will become a site that lists both free movie sites and movie galleries. I agree that using an older domain can give you a little jump on things. You can see these two Google searches for direct evidence that it's worth using old domains when you can. The new site was at #2 for both of these searches when I posted this:
x-rated porn movies (http://www.google.com/search?q=x-rated+porn+movies) and x-rated porn videos (http://www.google.com/search?q=x-rated+porn+videos)

Right now my XRT site only has sponsor movie galleries, as I practice learning some of the back end, so it's easy to call it a general MGP. I'm not sure exactly what the correct term for it will be when it has both free movie sites and movie galleries in its listings. I don't guess the surfers will care much though, as long as they find things they like there every time they visit. :)

I'm about ready to begin the LL additions for my XRT site, and I'm adding a blog there too, which is also something new for me. So this thread could not come at at better time as far as I'm concerned. I know I'll learn a lot from the more experienced posters here, and I'll be happy to contribute any interesting, corroborating, or contradictory evidence I uncover in my own site development as you move along with your project.

All good wishes for much success! |thumb


Simon

P.S. I have a few other old domains that I'm looking at for a TGP (photos+movies) and for some pure LL+blog combinations. I wouldn't be surprised if this thread inspires me to move a little faster on at least one of those. :)


Hey Simon |waves|

Great post and great to know you dude!

That example is certainly helping to make up my mind. And about the blog. I'm a firm believer in that being an excellent seo strategy. It doesn't matter what I do (well, almost), I like to put a blog on a subdomain. A few minutes a day is well worth it. If you get too many blogs you can also outsource it to labor for about 4 bucks an article, although I know purists hate that approach.

Since we're in similar boats this should be good. A bit like an exam revision club back in school, comparing answers, asking questions. Oh yes, I was one of those geeks. |shocking|

[MrYum]

Another vote for movielinklist.com here...sweet domain name |thumb

The other domain...mrsmovies.com definitely has a nice ring to it too. Perhaps a secondary project as a for women movies only link list. The for women market is still under developed...could be a sweet and profitable niche site |thumb

I'd also suggest not going cheap on hosting. I've tried it twice over the years...it ended up sucking both times. About the last thing you want to be dealing with when trying to launch and grow a site is hosting problems.

[kristian]

The Niche

So the niche will be movies. I feel there's still enough of a gap in the market to make entry feasible. The possibility of a niche movie site was brought up by Greenguy. I decided last night I will definitely setup a niche movie list, but not with this project. I'm worried about content and I know, by the time I'm ready to do a niche movie list, there will be more than enough movie free sites in every niche.

Domain Name Choice

Choosing a domain is always what slows up my projects. There are just so many questions. SEO questions alone number dozens and no one can ever agree on the right answers.

The agreement in seo is that the google algorithm places less emphasis on keywords and can, for some time now, parse keywords in domains. Branding and brandable domains are becoming the choice. Of course it would be nice to own keyword(dot)com or even keywordkeyword(dot)com but these usually aren't available. Far more important (correct me if I'm wrong) than keywords in domains are title tags, keyword density, and relevant backlinks, among other things.

In choosing my domain for this project, I'm looking for something brandable (therefore, easy to remember) and containing at least one of my keywords / phrases: movies, movie, porn movie, porn movies, free movies, free porn movies, so on.

The Domain

My top choice right now is MovieLinkList.com. I own the variations on this one and have owned it for 2 years come this August.

It has movie in the title which is ok and I'm thinking it's a fairly easy to remember, descriptive name. My only reservation is that it has nothing to denote it being adult in the name. However, this isn't really that important. TimsMovies(dot)com doesn't exactly scream hardcore mpegs.

The shortlisted domains are :

MrsMovies.com
MovieFreeSites.com
MoviePornSites.com
PornMovieEngine.com
PornMoviesEngine.com
PlayMyPorn.com
PornMovieDirectory.com
PornMoviesDirectory.com

Summary

Will go with a general movie link list, probably using the domain MovieLinkList.com.

Now why couldn't I have just written that??? lol

[juggernaut]

This is something I'm hoping to talk about here today. Looking at the available scripts, I have my own favorites. But, as you've spelled out, you really only know what's a good script once you use it. Anyway will be posting links to some and anyone can discuss the pros and cons.

I saw UW post a few days or weeks back that this script was pretty good. http://www.phplinkdirectory.com/
I went and downloaded it and its rather easy to mess with and the support forum is pretty active with mods. Keep in mind I'm not a pro LL owner, I just had an old domain sitting doing nothing and the name was kind of good for a ll so I figured I would play around with it. I first tried a content management system but that was a real pain in the ass. I would allow submits but you could not check back for recips and I think the people on that forum were not to happy i was using the script for adult. So I switch to this new one. I paid $30 for it and have to say even though is a little basic they seem to have most of the things covered. You can even set up for paid listings. But like I said I'm not a pro with this and it could be the worste script in the world. but for the price and the functionality it's right for me. Looking forward to reading more of this, i know you said it's not going to be a step by step how to but still im sure it will help me.

[kristian]

I'm going to post all my domain costs as soon as I finish buying them. I plan to use the domains I don't use for this project as feeders for the main site. One or two might even be fit for a future niche link list.

Here are the registrars I would recommend:

Name Cheap (http://www.namecheap.com/)

This is where I've been registering most my domains lately. Only $8.88 per (dot)com and they have a solid rep.

Direct Nic (http://www.directnic.com/)

15 bucks per (dot)com but perhaps the most solid rep around.

I wont recommend this one to you :

Godaddy (http://www.godaddy.com/)

A lot of webmaster on this forum have had major problems with this registrar. This is why I wont recommend them. Personally, I've never had a problem, but this doesn't mean one isn't around the corner. I have MovieLinkList.com with Godaddy and I'm considering transfering it to name cheap or direct nic. Advice appreciated.

[kristian]

Another vote for movielinklist.com here...sweet domain name |thumb

The other domain...mrsmovies.com definitely has a nice ring to it too. Perhaps a secondary project as a for women movies only link list. The for women market is still under developed...could be a sweet and profitable niche site |thumb

I'd also suggest not going cheap on hosting. I've tried it twice over the years...it ended up sucking both times. About the last thing you want to be dealing with when trying to launch and grow a site is hosting problems.

I think MovieLinkList.com is going to be the winner. Ye I love MrsMovies and the idea for women-only niche is killer. I'd considered it for a mature niche but am far more excited at the porn for women niche now you mention it. Something for the future!

I've hosted with http://www.atcihosting.com/ for a while now. Never had any problems or downtime and the owner, Chris, always makes himself available on icq.

[kristian]

I saw UW post a few days or weeks back that this script was pretty good. http://www.phplinkdirectory.com/
I went and downloaded it and its rather easy to mess with and the support forum is pretty active with mods. Keep in mind I'm not a pro LL owner, I just had an old domain sitting doing nothing and the name was kind of good for a ll so I figured I would play around with it. I first tried a content management system but that was a real pain in the ass. I would allow submits but you could not check back for recips and I think the people on that forum were not to happy i was using the script for adult. So I switch to this new one. I paid $30 for it and have to say even though is a little basic they seem to have most of the things covered. You can even set up for paid listings. But like I said I'm not a pro with this and it could be the worste script in the world. but for the price and the functionality it's right for me. Looking forward to reading more of this, i know you said it's not going to be a step by step how to but still im sure it will help me.

Hey juggernaut |waves|

I've noticed a lot of webmasters using http://www.phplinkdirectory.com/ when searching the forums here. It must do the job. What I'll be doing later is posting up a shitload of different scripts, varying price ranges, for everyone to take apart. What's good is that you can recommend this script so we have a good one for a low price.

You already know more than me so great to have you here dude!

[MrYum]

Agreed...Godaddy sucks smelly donkey balls. No personal experience with them, solely because of all the problems I've read about em. Most all of my domains are with DirectNic...even though I did have an issue with them on some .biz domains a few years ago, I still recommend them highly |thumb

I would definitely get movielinklist away from godaddy asap! Especially given the public nature of this thread, and the horror stories of stolen domains over there...I'd be moving that domain today.

Yup, I've heard good things about actihosting. I've got my main sites with ISPrime now...rock solid team over there and smokin fast servers |thumb

Script wise, there are lots to choose from. I've always been very tempted by Dragonlist from DragonScripts. The programmer is a member here and the script looks to have some awesome features. Have also heard the support is stellar :)

I'm currently using a custom script...would definitely NOT recommend going that route. It's a long and sordid tale, but suffice it to say...it's tough to get and keep a good programmer on the project. Should be amazing when the script is finally finished and fully functional though.

[Preacher]

Have also heard the support is stellar :)

From personal experience, I could not agree more with that point! |thumb

[kristian]

I have a dedicated server being setup by my host (http://www.atcihosting.com/?ref_id=198) today. While I wait for this, and the domain name and niche have been chosen, it's down to choosing a link list script.

This is where advice from veteran LL owners is invaluable. The obvious route would be to choose the most expensive and expect that to be the best choice. Reading what someone said earlier though, Jel I think, I'm going to need to know the scripts that perform best for adult webmasters.

Anyway, here's a few scripts for us to chew on (no affiliate links apart from my one above to my host):

Gossamer Links v.3.0.1 (http://www.gossamer-threads.com/scripts/links-sql/index.htm)

Price : $450

I like a few things about this script and it's going to take some convincing to consider any other script. The plugins are killer. Many are free and those that aren't free are worth the price. PPC Plugin, for instance, is money in the bank. Think of it, would you pay for a ppc campaign on something like LOR or penisbot? I would. Possibility is they would not sell traffic anyway but, until I know any better, having the option for the future is nice. I also like the fact that this company is like the bank of american. Been around long time and good solid product (from what I hear!).

Dragon List (http://www.dragonscripts.com/index.php?module=ContentExpress&file=index&func=display&ceid=2&meid=2)

Price : $325 and subsequent licenses are $75

I am so close to choosing this product over gossamer. Here we have something designed by venturi and mishi - regulars here on the board. The great thing this has going for it is that it's build with the adult webmaster in mind. Not only that but, having submitted to Mishi's LL many times, I fucking LOVE the webmaster-side features. Venturi, Jim, is a wicked guy too and he has helped me with many a coding project. Price is good to and if I setup other niche LLs in the future the low price tag, coupled with experience of setting up the one LL, will make work easier as I go.

I don't have anything to say about these others. That doesn't reflect on their quality. It just means I know fuck all about them.

K Links (http://turn-k.net/k-links)

Price : from $69

Link Admin (http://www.usefulscripts.com/scripts/commercial/linkadmin/)

Price : $400

Only things I know about this one is that it was created by Richard of Richard's Realm and Greenguy uses it on LOR. I'm guessing this makes it an excellent script.

X Power Links (http://www.xpowerlinks.com/)

Price : $199

Link Organizer (http://www.tdscripts.com/linkorg.html)

Price : $500

Hot Links SQL (http://www.mrcgiguy.com/hlsqldetails.shtml)

Price : $89.95

PHP Link Directory (http://www.phplinkdirectory.com/)

Price : $25 to $75

A good all-round LL script from what I hear.

[Greenguy]

...Link Admin (http://www.usefulscripts.com/scripts/commercial/linkadmin/)

Price : $400

Only things I know about this one is that it was created by Richard of Richard's Realm and Greenguy uses it on LOR. I'm guessing this makes it an excellent script...Talk to MrMaryLou if you have any questions, as he's the support guy for Richard.

[Useless]

Though I don't use any of scripts listed, I think LinkAdmin, Gossamer, X Power Links, and DragonList are the most heavily used and trusted. At least, those are the scripts I see discussed most. There was some sort of hub-bub a while back about X Power Links not producing new features, but I believe that was contested by them. Hell, LinkAdmin hasn't released any updates in almost 60 years and it's used very heavily. ;) Just find a script you feel you can work with and has all the little gadgets you want and run with it.

[kristian]

Talk to MrMaryLou if you have any questions, as he's the support guy for Richard.

Thanks, Greenguy, will do!

[kristian]

Though I don't use any of scripts listed, I think LinkAdmin, Gossamer, X Power Links, and DragonList are the most heavily used and trusted. At least, those are the scripts I see discussed most. There was some sort of hub-bub a while back about X Power Links not producing new features, but I believe that was contested by them. Hell, LinkAdmin hasn't released any updates in almost 60 years and it's used very heavily. ;) Just find a script you feel you can work with and has all the little gadgets you want and run with it.

I agree. So far Gossamer has what I need. But looking more closely today at Link Admin and Dragon List.

[Fonz]

I use Hot Links SQL on one of my LL's, it's a decent script but all LL's using it kinda look the same.
If you want to take a peek: http://www.teenspanker.com

On SmilingPussyLinks I use linkadmin and am very pleased with it. Ofcourse some things could be better but that's the case with all scripts I guess.

Or you can wait until MadMax releases his beast :D

[kristian]

I use Hot Links SQL on one of my LL's, it's a decent script but all LL's using it kinda look the same.
If you want to take a peek: http://www.teenspanker.com

On SmilingPussyLinks I use linkadmin and am very pleased with it. Ofcourse some things could be better but that's the case with all scripts I guess.

Or you can wait until MadMax releases his beast :D

TeenSpanker is looking very good. I like the way you use the entry page for Becky's Diary. Also like the sparse advertising and the dating gold thumb banner. Script seems cool too. Lots of nice features. You seem to have done a good job customising it.

Always liked SPLs. I'm betting Link Admin is able to be customised more. Everyone's site using it looks different.

[Lemmy]

I use Hot Links SQL on one of my LL's, it's a decent script but all LL's using it kinda look the same.
They sure do (http://www.planetofporn.net/), and I suspect it is because most people (certainly myself) think it's a pain in the ass to figure out the templates and modify them to their liking.

For my next project I am strongly considering Dragonlist. From what I understand there are no templates to mess with. Just build plain old HTML pages, slip the code in where you want the links to appear and that's it.

[kristian]

Well, that was good. Have just had a nice chat with Mishi, the developer / owner of Dragon List (http://www.dragonscripts.com/index.php?module=ContentExpress&file=index&func=display&ceid=2&meid=2).

I hit her up on icq and she was instantly available. Always a great sign. The script is developed with adult webmasters in mind and since the folks at gossamer are hard to reach, even through their support forum, I decided I wanted to learn more about it.

All in all it seems an easy to configure script. You just drop snippets of code into your html. Should make it easy to make MovieLinkList.com stand out from the rest.

Anyway - I'm swaying towards this one. Will decided tomorrow.

[MrYum]

Yep, Mishi and Venturi are good people :)

I used to run Link Admin on my site and certainly have nothing bad to say about it. But, the feature set with Dragon List is far more sophisiticated |thumb

[docholly]

Mishi Rocks!!! |thumb

[HC-Majick]

I have to agree....although I'm using both links sql and dragonlist, I definately prefer dragonlist. And Mishi is the best.

[msanchez]

Nice interesting thread here. I dont have any advice to give but loooking to learn from your experiences Kristian so thanks for documenting your journey! :)

[MrMaryLou]

Kristian, as Greenguy said if you want to ask any questoins about Link Admin feel free to hit me up :)

[kristian]

Nice interesting thread here. I dont have any advice to give but loooking to learn from your experiences Kristian so thanks for documenting your journey! :)

Glad to have ya here, msanchez |waves|

[kristian]

Kristian, as Greenguy said if you want to ask any questoins about Link Admin feel free to hit me up :)

I will do that, thanks MrMaryLou! And I love the new boobie av! |boobies|

[MrYum]

I will do that, thanks MrMaryLou! And I love the new boobie av! |boobies|
Everyone loves MML's boobies :D

[Xeno]

I just happen to catch this thread and one thing in regards to link scripts, is to make SURE whatever script is chosen, is the one you will use long-term if not the life of the link site. If something goes wrong down the road and a person has to change scripts, ...well....all I Can say is "What a mess" to do a complete change over. Been there, done it....lol

Truthfully though, there are many factors in choosing the right script:

1. What features you absolutely cannot do without
2. What features do you think you will need or want later in time
3. Is there good support for the script(s) you are looking at
4. What kind of "honest unbiased" reviews are available for selected scripts
5. ASP, PHP, or CGI scripting choices
6. How well is the admin section designed...messy? Efficient? detailed?
7. How often is the script upgraded, versions, bug reports and fixes, etc
8. Are the templates easy to modify, or are they template hell
9. Will you be running a link list, portal, or directory
10. Do you need mod_rewrite, HTML generated pages, or is dynamic ok?

There is more I can put here but Im hungry and need some dinner....just wanted to toss my two bits in :)

[kristian]

NetGoonie -- Excellent post. Those points will certainly help me form a better opinion of the right script to choose.

Will take me a while to digest all of that but I'll be using it over the next 24 hours thats for sure!

[troy]

Hi Kristian,

Thanks for this tread.
I just started a new link list myself so it will be of much use.

I see you already decided not to go for the niche specific link list.
I have experience with that. I run a cumshot link list for more then 3 years and till now the hardest thing is to get submitters and good link trades. Even now I only have a handfull of both of them.

Good luck on your journey.

[flyeruk]

Hey Kristian,

This sounds like a great venture... it's even got my blood pumping just reading the thread :D

Thumbs up from me for movielinklist.com name and the movies only linklist idea... with more and more surfers using broadband, I think it's the way to go.

In my humble opinion, I'd definitely choose the best script you can afford. It'll save you having to change scripts further down the line and with your connections and backing from GG&J webmasters your listings will soon be in the thousands.

I'm using dragonlist on my main linklist and as I've mentioned in a previous thread, will be purchasing another 2 licenses from Mishi once I have more time.

If you want to do a cat trade once you're sorted, just pm me.

Oh, and great to see another Brit on the board |thumb

Lisa

[kristian]

Hi Kristian,

Thanks for this tread.
I just started a new link list myself so it will be of much use.

I see you already decided not to go for the niche specific link list.
I have experience with that. I run a cumshot link list for more then 3 years and till now the hardest thing is to get submitters and good link trades. Even now I only have a handfull of both of them.

Good luck on your journey.

Good to have you here, Troy |waves|

We can probably help each other with you having 3 years experience. I remember fris had squirtblog.com but I just went to look and it's offline. He had it to 60k I think with some good cumshot trades. You could check that out when / if it comes back online or even consider links to non-link lists which I'm sure you've already thought about. In any case, it's great to have a veteran, and I bet we can exchange notes on the new link lists.

[kristian]

Hey Kristian,

This sounds like a great venture... it's even got my blood pumping just reading the thread :D

Thumbs up from me for movielinklist.com name and the movies only linklist idea... with more and more surfers using broadband, I think it's the way to go.

In my humble opinion, I'd definitely choose the best script you can afford. It'll save you having to change scripts further down the line and with your connections and backing from GG&J webmasters your listings will soon be in the thousands.

I'm using dragonlist on my main linklist and as I've mentioned in a previous thread, will be purchasing another 2 licenses from Mishi once I have more time.

If you want to do a cat trade once you're sorted, just pm me.

Oh, and great to see another Brit on the board |thumb

Lisa

Hey Limey :D

A cat trade will definitely be great. I'll hold you to that! As far as scripts go, I'll be choosing the best available. I posted about all scripts so as to make this accessible to pretty much anyone. Mishi's script looks so good and has so much positive feedback, it's making it a tough choice between that and gossamer which was my favorite before looking closely at Dragon List.

Anyway great to have a fellow brit and LL owner :)

[kristian]

Greenguy and MrYum will string me up by the balls today, but I'm considering the services of a designer.

The feeling of my friends (and I don't disagree) is that designing it yourself leads to a greater feeling of satisfaction. I will still very possibly go this route. I'm looking at a designer to keep my options open. I want to see what he can do for me.

So for the greater part of the day I will be answering questions to help him forumlate a design proposal (I'll post Q and A later today). I keep saying he. He's actually a popular regular here : NetGoonie. The only reason I would even consider NetGoonie as a designer is because he designs link lists, runs a link list, and knows seo.

So, as promised with this adventure, I'm being open every step of the way ... even if it means Greenguy and MrYum tying a noose around me nuts!

[kristian]

I should also mentioned that I've had extremely generous offers from other webmasters. These however came to me after I found NetGoonie. Not wanting to seem ungrateful or rude to anyone, I'm going to see NetGoonie's proposal, and then consider that and my other options presented by some very generous individuals (you know who you are ... not saying just incase they don't want me to).

[MrYum]

Greenguy and MrYum will string me up by the balls today, but I'm considering the services of a designer.
Okay, that's it...whip em out and get ready to dangle :D

No worries at all Kristian. This whole thread is about ideas and personal experiences. If you were to try to incorporate them all, doubt you'd ever get anything done! Besides, I'm SURE you'll get a lot of that personal satisfaction out of watching the traffic/revenue climb as well |thumb

Frankly, I still look at FPP and think it looks way too amateurish and desperately needs a redesign. And I very well may do so at some point (as my own personal satisfaction with traffic/revenue climbs), but I did get give the ugly baby 'birth'...lol.

By the way...having fun yet???

[kristian]

Okay, that's it...whip em out and get ready to dangle :D

No worries at all Kristian. This whole thread is about ideas and personal experiences. If you were to try to incorporate them all, doubt you'd ever get anything done! Besides, I'm SURE you'll get a lot of that personal satisfaction out of watching the traffic/revenue climb as well |thumb

Frankly, I still look at FPP and think it looks way too amateurish and desperately needs a redesign. And I very well may do so at some point (as my own personal satisfaction with traffic/revenue climbs), but I did get give the ugly baby 'birth'...lol.

By the way...having fun yet???

Oh balls!!!! |couch|

In my humble opinion I'd be worried about changing FPP. It's a great site and if it's no broken, well you know the rest. What I like most about it is I would surf it as a surfer. I can honestly not say that about 95% of sites nowadays.

Having lots of fun for the first time in months. I decided on doing this a while ago. Time was just a problem. I've got my almost-wife running software for me and some online labor doing the rest. Frees up most of my time for this which is great.

Well great apart from getting me nuts strangled! :D

[kristian]

What is the consenus about trade scripts for link lists? Growing a tgp, it would be commonplace. Greenguy uses one on LOR (coupled with hard link trades). I notice most LLs seem to just go with hardlinks unless I am missing something (most likely!).

[MrYum]

Oh balls!!!! |couch|

In my humble opinion I'd be worried about changing FPP. It's a great site and if it's no broken, well you know the rest. What I like most about it is I would surf it as a surfer. I can honestly not say that about 95% of sites nowadays.

Having lots of fun for the first time in months. I decided on doing this a while ago. Time was just a problem. I've got my almost-wife running software for me and some online labor doing the rest. Frees up most of my time for this which is great.

Well great apart from getting me nuts strangled! :D
Thanks, but as many of us are...I'm my own worst critic |dizzy|

Though I noticed last night Google has been playing with things again. PR jumped to 5 on several of my categories...doesnt' equate to traffic, but sure looks purdy on the tool bar :D

Wow! Online labor that actually works?! Hell, I may have to pick your brain on that one! Had a very poor experience with outsourcing some work last year.

Don't worry...I'll be gentle with em |jester|

Added: Regarding handling trades. I do everything with simple php includes pulling a set of txt files that are easy to open in mass...edit...upload...voila'. Can add a complete set of trades in about 30 minutes across all categories. All hard links of course.

[kristian]

Thanks, but as many of us are...I'm my own worst critic |dizzy|

Though I noticed last night Google has been playing with things again. PR jumped to 5 on several of my categories...doesnt' equate to traffic, but sure looks purdy on the tool bar :D

Wow! Online labor that actually works?! Hell, I may have to pick your brain on that one! Had a very poor experience with outsourcing some work last year.

Don't worry...I'll be gentle with em |jester|

Added: Regarding handling trades. I do everything with simple php includes pulling a set of txt files that are easy to open in mass...edit...upload...voila'. Can add a complete set of trades in about 30 minutes across all categories. All hard links of course.


Doesn't get much better than pr5 for adult, congrats!!

You could check out gene over at webmasterlabor(dot)com. I've only ever hear good things and his firm is at the top. If you're looking for reviewers though then you're probably best off here. Last time I heard we'd cloned 18 MMLs. :D I have some guys I use here in Wales but they do it mainly as a favor and are not really in the trade. Went to school with the owner.

Will look into your way of trading. Cheers!

[Simon]

Regarding handling trades. I do everything with simple php includes pulling a set of txt files that are easy to open in mass...edit...upload...voila'. Can add a complete set of trades in about 30 minutes across all categories. All hard links of course.
That's exactly what I do on xratedtv. All hard links, and all pulled from external text files. It does make link trades pretty easy.

Now, while I suggest that as a good way to get the result, I wish there was a better way.

So I'm going to add this question to your search for the right script(s) to use:

Do any of the Link List scripts have a "hard link trades" section of the admin, or a plug-in or module, where you can enter the info on your hard link trades and everything else is handled automatically when your pages update?


Simon

[kristian]

Simon -- I'm interested to know this too. If I can I will post answers today. :)

[kristian]

With kind permission from NetGoonie, I'm posting the information below.

I might use a designer for this project. NetGoonie, with experience in designing link lists, has offered to create a design proposal for my project. In order to do so, he emailed me 17 questions. Based on my answers, his feel for my needs and his own experience, he intends to reply with a proposal for designing MovieLinkList.com.

His prices and ideas will ultimately help make up my mind.

1. What script will you be using?

The choice I make will be dependant on three main factors : features (both user-side, webmaster-side, admin-side), stability of company (to ensure future updates to keep me ahead of technology), and support. Gossamer Threads would be my first choice, based on my three factors. However, now that you have shown me PowerSeek, I would consider it too. I like the functionality and the layout possibilities. What puts me off is having never heard of them and not knowing other adult link lists, other than yours, that use them.

2. Is this going to be a link list or more of a link directory?

A link list. I'm not sure of the difference but, since the domain is MovieLinkList.com, I better go with link list. We're talking lor, penisbot, hoes.

3. Are there any specific features you are looking to have in your site outside of the link script?

No, unless you can offer suggestions. I might consider implementing a thumb mgp, porn movie and paysite reviews, a blog, and a forum at a later stage.

4. Are there any other scripts to be part of the site i.e.: Toplist, TGP galleries, etc?

A trade script is a distinct possibility. Growing a tgp, it would be a necessity. I am just researching the possibility of using a trade script. It seems some link lists use them - combined with hard links - and some do not. If I used one, the idea would be to trade traffic with text mgps, while keeping LLs (with lesser traffic) on hardlink trade tables.

An mgp implementation is a possible in the future (using smart thumbs, most likely).

5. Do you have any kind of design concept you are interested in?

Design should be surfer-oriented with no advertising. The site design should have the surfer in mind at all times. How can we make it easy for them to find what they want, how can we deliver that content nicely to them, what will irritate them (remove it), what will the surfers like (add it). So forget about finding ways to make money off them. Make it a surfer-utopia.

6. Any sample web sites you've seen that you like how they were done?

PenisBot.com

Penisbot is designed with the surfer in mind. I like the color and icon-coded links (blue boxes with F, for free sites, for example) that are the right at below the header. Below these you have the category links. Right away a surfer knows how to find what he wants. Great! I also like the size of the links, especially those for today's sites running down the bottom of the entry page. Nice and big. I hate those sites with small links where you have to squint to find the porn. Cannot say enough good about this site. The surfer-functionality, the clean design, the intuitive navigation. Simple genius.

SublimeDirectory.com

Not a link list for free sites, but I like the surfer-functionality. Search bar at the top, a welcoming piece of news, category links down the side. Not as nicely laid out as PenisBot (links too small for a start) but nice and simple.

69TopLinks.com

Your site! I like the use of tables on the entry page (slim, stylish, packed with seo). Like the colors, the gradient bars, the design lines. Aesthically, verr easy on the eyes, stylish, makes me take notice. Don't like the background. As entry pages go, one of the best I've seen. Inside the site, not keen on the heavy advertising. I like the stylish tables, like the intuitive interface. Easy to find what I want. I'd like to see this site combined with the mentioned-elements of PenisBot.com.

7. Do you need content development of any kind (writing, photos...etc)?

No, I can do this myself.

8. Is website optimization, W3C compliancy, important for this site?

I'm not sure. Probably.

9. Do you require any SEO (search engine optimization) and if so, what do you want to achieve with this?

I require the site to be built with basic SEO considerations, but I presume this is standard. Other than that, I will seo myself.

10. Do you need monthly or quarterly Search Engine ranking reports?

No, that's ok.

11. Is there a time frame for this site to be completed and online?

This month. If you're able to get started right away, all the better.

12. Do you need a Branding solution - logo/identity development?

Yes. I'd like to see some samples though beforehand.

13. Do you need banners done and if so, estimated number and type of?

No need for banners. I will do these in html myself.

14. Do you need hosting provider suggestions? **This will be important because there are many hosts that do not allow certain scripts to run.

I have a reliable host : atchihosting.com

15. Do you have a working budget for this project?

Yes, but will appraise all costs judiciously.

16. Will you need ongoing site updates or additions of features or site sections?

Yes. If the site design is successful in my eyes I will certainly want to collaborate in the future - for this and other projects of a related nature. I actually wouldn't consider another designer once I'm happy with the design.

17. Do you have an idea of what content pages you need, i.e.: contact us, banners page, advertising page, splash entry page...etc?

Once the site is designed I can probably complete most pages myself with little effort. The hard part is getting the winning design in the first place.

Aside from the "obvious" pages designated by the script, it would just be an entry page, I think.

If you consider LOR, for instance, you have an entry, main, category pages, submit page, banner page. If you naturally include main, cats, and submit in your design, then the only entra will be entry and banner. I'll do the banner page myself.

[Xeno]

I sent you an email about scripts...looks like 3 choices: Xpower links (Similiar to Penisbots), Gossamer, and PowerSeek. I think Kit (Penisbot) will love what you said about their site, actually, its ranks high in my books for functionality, especially with the "icon-coded links" which I think is awesome.

Looks like everyone loves this thread, keep it up :)

[kristian]

I sent you an email about scripts...looks like 3 choices: Xpower links (Similiar to Penisbots), Gossamer, and PowerSeek. I think Kit (Penisbot) will love what you said about their site, actually, its ranks high in my books for functionality, especially with the "icon-coded links" which I think is awesome.

Looks like everyone loves this thread, keep it up :)

Am just chewing over the pros and cons of each script. This really is a toughie. Will try to give an answer today (not because you're rushing me, but because I'm an eager SOB). |banghead|

[MrYum]

Thanks for the tip on webmasterlabor...got them bookmarked for future reference |thumb

Wouldn't be for reviews though...I plan to retire my girlfriend from her day job and bring her online for reviews when the time is right :D

Great set of questions and answers! Looks like a pretty comprehensive analysis of that piece of the project |thumb

[kristian]

Wouldn't be for reviews though...I plan to retire my girlfriend from her day job and bring her online for reviews when the time is right :D

hahaha
So we both went to the same school of adult webmastering! lol

[KG Gary]

Good luck kristian.
Like most here I'll be reading this thread regularly.
I doubt I'll have much to input, especially since you are going to list movies only, but good luck anyway.
:)

Wales? You say Wales? My homeland? Woo Hoo!
Extra good luck to you then!
:D

[stfuvt]

great thread, its really interesting:)
Good luck

[kristian]

Good luck kristian.
Like most here I'll be reading this thread regularly.
I doubt I'll have much to input, especially since you are going to list movies only, but good luck anyway.
:)

Wales? You say Wales? My homeland? Woo Hoo!
Extra good luck to you then!
:D

Hey Gary |waves|

I'm in Llandudno. :) Great to have you in the thread dude!

[kristian]

great thread, its really interesting:)
Good luck


Thanks, stfuvt :) |waves|

[MrYum]

hahaha
So we both went to the same school of adult webmastering! lol
You betcha! I'd much rather have her running around here in a thong bikini as opposed to heading out to the office every day!

And of course, I'd have to get SOME work out of her lil butt :D

[kristian]

You betcha! I'd much rather have her running around here in a thong bikini as opposed to heading out to the office every day!

And of course, I'd have to get SOME work out of her lil butt :D

You're a bad man LOL

[stuveltje]

hya kristian and welcome back|cool| for 2 years already i am focussing on linksites, i have had several myself and sold them all on this moment i am making some new ones, and again i learned some things....one dont make them to big if you just start to make an linksite........i made that mistake myself again...its not only the submits you need in those categories but its also alot of work, when you start a linksite be sure you have the niches to get submits too, to get submits trade with other linksites submits pages and make you linksite known all around the world, keep your eye on the sponsors you use, i am very picky if an sponsor dont convert with in the 500 or 1000 clicks i will change it, it also ofcourse depends on the traffic you get, put a linkback for your own linksite on every free site you make, do cat linktrades.etc. i know i can put more here but on this moment its 12.39 after midnight here and i am getting to much a chinese old dutch lady, tomoorw i will try to give more input here of my own view:)

[kristian]

hya kristian and welcome back|cool| for 2 years already i am focussing on linksites, i have had several myself and sold them all on this moment i am making some new ones, and again i learned some things....one dont make them to big if you just start to make an linksite........i made that mistake myself again...its not only the submits you need in those categories but its also alot of work, when you start a linksite be sure you have the niches to get submits too, to get submits trade with other linksites submits pages and make you linksite known all around the world, keep your eye on the sponsors you use, i am very picky if an sponsor dont convert with in the 500 or 1000 clicks i will change it, it also ofcourse depends on the traffic you get, put a linkback for your own linksite on every free site you make, do cat linktrades.etc. i know i can put more here but on this moment its 12.39 after midnight here and i am getting to much a chinese old dutch lady, tomoorw i will try to give more input here of my own view:)

Hey stuveltje |waves|

There is so much good information in that one paragraph. Great ideas and information. This is so helpful for me and anyone else reading this who wants to start a link list. I think what I might start doing is like a Sunday Summary so we don't forget any of the info that's come up in the week. I can list all the juicy stuff that we should all either remember or write down.

On another note, your link lists are excellent. Must admit, I haven't seen those before, so I'm guessing they're your new ones. You have exactly the kind of surfer-oriented sites that I like. Clean design, intuitive interface, easy on the eye color schemes. Really like them a lot. Reason I mention it is because all I've been doing lately is looking at link lists.

Thanks for the ideas and your participation in this thread is going to be great. |thumb

[MrYum]

You're a bad man LOL
Yea, there's a news flash :D

Stu is a machine! Whether it's building link sites or reviewing for a dozen link lists at the same damn time! The lady is amazing |bow|

Speaking of reviews...better get to em...

[bluemoney]

Hi Kristian |waves|
I wish you the very best in your endeavor and would also like to thank you for this most enjoyable and informative thread.
As a new LL owner myself this makes for a great guide with the input of some seasoned veterans of the biz and pretty damn good folks as well. So again, thanks for that and good luck

[amareck]

1) Awesome thread and should be a good contribution to the adult community as a whole $$

2) Are you enjoying the can o worms yet? Or perhaps its not a can o worms, but more like pandora's box :P

A couple of things I'd think about when setting up:

a) Ensure that you can target advertising properly - random banner rotations are ridiculous...kinda like rotating galleries with the descriptions really - hit n miss relevancy to the surfer. If you do want to run banner rotations, ensure that you can set it up with categorization or multiple installs to ensure that only targetted banners appear for each category

b) In addition to item a) above, ensure that you can quickly swap out sponsors performing poorly on your traffic

c) If possible, get yourself an LL platform that is extensible - plugins are good, but the ability to customize and manually plug in your own stuff is golden, especially when it comes to databases - being able to add custom fields for more page output & mass publishing is a very sweet thing

d) Templates & template support from a platform is good, especially a templating system that permits conditional statements and such

e) Make sure you can blend your CSS into it. This is usually a given but again, best to make sure.

Most link list software will cover these items in some form or other, but its best to be sure. They are also relevant considerations when configuring your link list. For example, if you hardcode category banners into your templates, you're gonna have fun editing them...whereas if they are ssi inserts or php/mysql generated, you'll have a much easier time of it.

GL with your endeavour :)

[kristian]

Hey bluemoney |waves|

Thanks a lot dude. I hope it helps you and I'm really excited with the way it's going myself. Lot of nice people here offering some great advice. Good luck with your LL! :)

Hi Kristian |waves|
I wish you the very best in your endeavor and would also like to thank you for this most enjoyable and informative thread.
As a new LL owner myself this makes for a great guide with the input of some seasoned veterans of the biz and pretty damn good folks as well. So again, thanks for that and good luck

[kristian]

1) Awesome thread and should be a good contribution to the adult community as a whole $$

2) Are you enjoying the can o worms yet? Or perhaps its not a can o worms, but more like pandora's box :P

A couple of things I'd think about when setting up:

a) Ensure that you can target advertising properly - random banner rotations are ridiculous...kinda like rotating galleries with the descriptions really - hit n miss relevancy to the surfer. If you do want to run banner rotations, ensure that you can set it up with categorization or multiple installs to ensure that only targetted banners appear for each category

b) In addition to item a) above, ensure that you can quickly swap out sponsors performing poorly on your traffic

c) If possible, get yourself an LL platform that is extensible - plugins are good, but the ability to customize and manually plug in your own stuff is golden, especially when it comes to databases - being able to add custom fields for more page output & mass publishing is a very sweet thing

d) Templates & template support from a platform is good, especially a templating system that permits conditional statements and such

e) Make sure you can blend your CSS into it. This is usually a given but again, best to make sure.

Most link list software will cover these items in some form or other, but its best to be sure. They are also relevant considerations when configuring your link list. For example, if you hardcode category banners into your templates, you're gonna have fun editing them...whereas if they are ssi inserts or php/mysql generated, you'll have a much easier time of it.

GL with your endeavour :)


I think the worms are on steroids!! lol

Those are some excellent tips. The choice of script has been one that's kept me up nights, I have to admit. Not only is it about features but I know the owners of one script (Dragon List) and have friends who are happy using other scripts. Makes the decision all the more harder. What I have pretty much decided though is to go with gossamer links (http://www.gossamer-threads.com/scripts/links-sql/index.htm). I will post more details about why later, but a lot has to do with other sites using it, plugins and gut feeling (much of the stuff you have mentioned).

Thanks for all your help so far - here and via email. I'll be contacting you today and, with your permission, posting all the juicy details. :)

[kristian]

A lot of juicy stuff happening today.

hosting ...

The new dedicated server is ready. I went for a package with my current host, ATCIHosting (http://www.atcihosting.com/?ref_id=198).

Type : Dedicated Server
BW : 10 Mbps
3.0GHz P4
512MB RAM
2x80GB SATA (SW Raid1)
Price : $349.95 / Month

The owner, Chris, is a great guy. Support is excellent. I think the server should be fine to get us started.

domain transfer ...

This will cause a slight delay, unfortunately. I decided to transfer the domain away from godaddy. After completing the process, their email tells me the transfer will complete on Monday. This is a shame because I had wanted to get the script installed and begin some hands-on work. Hopefully though, this will be seen as a good move in the long run.

design ...

The actual design cannot begin of course until the domain transfers to my new registrar. However, I'm going to use this time to decide on layout, possible color schemes, slogan, and whatever else comes to mind.

You remember the designer I had under consideration? Unfortunately, we will be unable to work together. No drama, just a natural conflict of interests. I made a promise to everyone reading this thread that I would disclose everything. The designer made a promise to the html design guild that he would not disclose prices to the public. There is our problem. Had I been able to publish his quoted price, I would have hired him this morning.

All is not lost. We have Amareck to the rescue!

Like most / all webmasters I am proficient in designing websites. What I lack are high-end graphic skills (like those clever cartoonists). The decision to use a designer would have been to implement designs beyond my abilities. Amareck, while not a professional graphic designer, is expert in CCS, with a specialty of implementing it in link lists. He was instrumental in transfering two popular link lists from html to css : feversfavourites.com and megapornlinks.com. If all goes well, Amareck will be the guy who gives MoveLinkList a complete css layout. The actual design will then be left to me (oh fuck!).

branding & logo

I may or may not hire someone to create a logo this weekend. It all depends on how my creative juices are flowing.

This is generally how I design a site.

I get the logo and open it up in photoshop. Using the color-picker I choose a color scheme for the site based on the colors in the logo. I always do it this way. Have tried it without a logo beforehand, but it never worked. To get me started I need that logo and the colors in it.

What I'll be doing today / this weekend is brainstorming a slogan and ideas for the logo. I'll then take this to a professional designer (possibly Bruno Dickman, if they are available).

There is no huge rush for this though. Script cannot be installed until Monday at the earliest anyway.

link list script ...

Am 99% sure I will be using gossamer links (http://www.gossamer-threads.com/scripts/links-sql/index.htm). Unless I change my mind, I will buy this and install it the moment domain has transfered.

Have a good weekend, All!

[MrYum]

Sweet...the nuts n bolts start soon!

Very enlightening having this play out in a public forum. And it's gonna be great watching your new baby grow up right here at GG&J |thumb

[kristian]

Sweet...the nuts n bolts start soon!

Very enlightening having this play out in a public forum. And it's gonna be great watching your new baby grow up right here at GG&J |thumb

You're obsessed with my nuts! |couch|

[Useless]

Honestly, as magnificent as it all sounds so far, you seem to have strayed away from the golden rule of webmastery. K.I.S.S. Or, as I like to say, K.I.S.C. - keep it simple cocksucker. The basis of a link list is such a simple thing. This isn't rocket surgery or brain science. ;) Just make sure that when all is said and done, you haven't built a list where you yourself don't have the ability to toss shit around and edit on your own. A link list should't require a manual.

As you have your team of engineers and designers :D constructing your list, worry less about pretty - and more about the proper layout of the major aspects, such as paysite links, category link trades, and free site links. Study the big old link lists that have been around before anyone even knew what the F keys were for on their keyboards. Look for chaos and look for strategy - they're both there.

[kristian]

Honestly, as magnificent as it all sounds so far, you seem to have strayed away from the golden rule of webmastery. K.I.S.S. Or, as I like to say, K.I.S.C. - keep it simple cocksucker. The basis of a link list is such a simple thing. This isn't rocket surgery or brain science. ;) Just make sure that when all is said and done, you haven't built a list where you yourself don't have the ability to toss shit around and edit on your own. A link list should't require a manual.

As you have your team of engineers and designers :D constructing your list, worry less about pretty - and more about the proper layout of the major aspects, such as paysite links, category link trades, and free site links. Study the big old link lists that have been around before anyone even knew what the F keys were for on their keyboards. Look for chaos and look for strategy - they're both there.

I think it is pretty simple, UW. :)

I wanted one designer to design the site. He wont allow me to publish his prices. I've chosen another designer, instead, to give me the layout in css (based on my explicit instructions).

[Simon]

Look for chaos and look for strategy - they're both there.
Not that we should hijack this thread into anything unrelated, UW, but someday we should do a thread about the value of chaos, and about intentionally creating what may appear to be (areas of) chaos.

Okay, back to this thread's focus.

It might be valuable to collect some opinions on things like where other LL owners choose to position their paysite links, free site links, link trades, where they put text addressing the surfer, how soon to show the first photo or large graphic elements. Personally I'd find it interesting if anyone wanted to share why they position their elements they way they do.

[kristian]

It might be valuable to collect some opinions on things like where other LL owners choose to position their paysite links, free site links, link trades, where they put text addressing the surfer, how soon to show the first photo or large graphic elements. Personally I'd find it interesting if anyone wanted to share why they position their elements they way they do.

Those are the key considerations for sure. I second the motion for link list owners to share their thoughts.

I have my own ideas but will be sharing these at an appropriate time in the development of movielinklist. What I will say now, however, is there will be no advertising at the start. Bandwidth is cheap, but boomarkers, trades and content are priceless. One of my missions at the start will be giving my submitters traffic that has not been subjected to my own promotions and surfers will get clean pages to encourage bookmarking.

One of the promotion techniques I'll be using on the site, after the initial phase, is promotion that does not look like promotion. It is this technique that works well 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for me in other areas. I wont be inventing the wheel (other LLs use it) but it will form part of the process of phasing in advertising. It would be getting ahead of myself to say more now.

[PR_Tom]

This is a great thread and things like this are why I always recommend that affiliates looking for ideas stop in here and join in.

I'm sure there are dozens taking notes. I know I am |thumb

[kristian]

This is a great thread and things like this are why I always recommend that affiliates looking for ideas stop in here and join in.

I'm sure there are dozens taking notes. I know I am |thumb

It's great to have you in here, Tom |waves|

[Useless]

What I will say now, however, is there will be no advertising at the start. Bandwidth is cheap, but boomarkers, trades and content are priceless.Excellent. That's something MML has said to me in the past and I believe is something that he and GG do when they work a new project. First gain the love of the surfers, then work on marketing to them.|thumb

[massive-x]

I like this thread very much! I strted a topic on newbie part of this forum about developing my hub/site http://www.femdompornlinks.com to real, big, clean and HQ link list dedicated to only one specific niche! I just wanna try to get away from newbie mistakes and a few realy nice people show me some paths and light my way to the top :) Thanx guys |thumb
I'm sure that this thread will help me as it helping you!
I can't give you some advices about developing LL but I can give my contribution to it with submiting my free sites to your LL! I'll be glad to help anyone around here cose all you guys and girls ROCK!!!
Chears |waves|

[kristian]

I like this thread very much! I strted a topic on newbie part of this forum about developing my hub/site http://www.femdompornlinks.com to real, big, clean and HQ link list dedicated to only one specific niche! I just wanna try to get away from newbie mistakes and a few realy nice people show me some paths and light my way to the top :) Thanx guys |thumb
I'm sure that this thread will help me as it helping you!
I can't give you some advices about developing LL but I can give my contribution to it with submiting my free sites to your LL! I'll be glad to help anyone around here cose all you guys and girls ROCK!!!
Chears |waves|

Hey massive-x |waves|

You'll find greenguyandjim to be a great resource. I know I learn a lot here every day.

That LL of yours is looking good and that domain is sweet.

Thanks for the offer of the free sites. I can use all the good submitters I can get!! |thumb

Anyway - glad to have you in the thread! :)

[kristian]

SUNDAY SUMMARY

The project started on Wednesday (4/5/2006). A lot has happened in three full days. Not as much as I would have liked - due to the delay caused by transfering registrars - but enough to give me the idea in the shower for a Sunday Summary.

niche

I scanned the market comprised of webmasters using a link list as their business model. I sought out a popular niche that was sufficiently unsaturated to permit entry and feasible success : Movies. To gain search engine superiority, it would have been better (as Greenguy suggested) to choose a movie niche. However, I am happy to work long-term towards success, and the relative newness of movie free sites has me concerned about getting adequate content from submitters. So, the general movie niche!

domain

I wanted a domain that possessed inherent seo and branding benefits. The ideal domain would have been FreePornMovies(dot)com. However, the best combinations of keyword domains where unavailable. I could have gone with charactername(keyphrase), but decided such a name would lessen the overal prestige of the site (I want surfers to see this as the definitive site for porn movie links). I chose MovieLinkList(dot)com : A descriptive domain that should be memorable and easy to brand and one that I have owned for 2 years come August. It does lack, however, some seo benefits that may cause problems down the line (here I refer to anchor text in the all-important back links) but I am hoping enough trades will allow me to use keyword anchor text, as opposed to actual domain name. So, MovieLinkList(dot)com!

hosting

I went with my current host with whom I've developed trust.

ATCIHosting (http://www.atcihosting.com/?ref_id=198) have top-notch support, a great reputation, and offer affordable deals for almost any budget.

I chose a new dedicated server to house Movie Link List. Here are the details :

Type : Dedicated Server
BW : 10 Mbps
3.0GHz P4
512MB RAM
2x80GB SATA (SW Raid1)
Price : $349.95 / Month

script

The choice for a script is more important than domain name. In terms of seo, domain names are losing relevancy, but not having the right engine behind a site can cause all kind of problems. I needed to choose the best engine to power my site for the long haul. I chose Gossamer Links v.3.0.1 (http://www.gossamer-threads.com/scripts/links-sql/index.htm). I has all the features I need (surfer-side, webmaster-side, admin-side), a solid reputation, a long history (so I can almost gurantee it will be here in the future to provide addons and upgrades, keeping my LL abreast of directory technology), and I have a good gut feeling about it. So, Gossamer Links!

PLANS FOR THE COMING WEEK

A LOT will be going on!

This weekend I'm in photoshop designing the layout of Movie Link List. I will post these up when complete. My finished designs will be passed on to Amareck who is being hired to code the site - from the ground up - in CSS, based explicity on the designs. Amareck is the man behind the css development at fevers favorites and mega porn links. I want a CSS layout for tons of reasons but need a professional to code it for me.

When the domain has tranfered registrars, I will purchase Gossamer Links and install it. Amareck will them, should his schedule permit, code the site in css.

I've already contacted Dickman's Design (http://www.dickmansdesign.com/) about a logo. If they are available soon, and allow me to disclose our dealings (costs, logo development stages) here, then I will hire them.

Other stuff going on :

- deciding on categories (see my thread over here (http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?t=30553), which I hope will help me decide on a small category list, as per stu's advice)

- completing design of Movie Link List (to include everything with making the site complete in terms of graphics, layout, text)

- finding linking partners and submitters

- finding free hosted movie free sites & movie galleries

All the above should take us to where Movie Link List is up and operational.

Have a good Sunday!

[stuveltje]

nice pick the movie linksite way, i have one myself too, what i have done till now is only put some categories up where people can submit their moviesites, i skipt the niches like, bbw, midget, latina and some others, i have put those together in the fetish or misc niche, they will stay there untill i have enough submits for those niches to make an seperate categorie for it, what i did found out that moviesponsor sell worser for me on that linksite then normall sponsors, so yeah again i am still trying alot of stuff on those linksites:)
Good luck with your new linksite:)))))

[kristian]

nice pick the movie linksite way, i have one myself too, what i have done till now is only put some categories up where people can submit their moviesites, i skipt the niches like, bbw, midget, latina and some others, i have put those together in the fetish or misc niche, they will stay there untill i have enough submits for those niches to make an seperate categorie for it, what i did found out that moviesponsor sell worser for me on that linksite then normall sponsors, so yeah again i am still trying alot of stuff on those linksites:)
Good luck with your new linksite:)))))

We will have to arrange some link trades, Stu :D

A low number of initial categories is certainly influencing the way I'm designing it ... for the best I hope though. Maybe we can work out the best way to convert traffic together. Will let you know if I learn any tricks.

[stuveltje]

We will have to arrange some link trades, Stu :D

A low number of initial categories is certainly influencing the way I'm designing it ... for the best I hope though. Maybe we can work out the best way to convert traffic together. Will let you know if I learn any tricks.
Always will trade with you when ever you want, btw i am changing my list again ( like i damn always do with the lls i have, trying to do some seo on it and all and other stuff) oh and my linklist for movies is moviepornlist.com so you can check it out, back to reviewing here:)

[kristian]

Always will trade with you when ever you want, btw i am changing my list again ( like i damn always do with the lls i have, trying to do some seo on it and all and other stuff) oh and my linklist for movies is moviepornlist.com so you can check it out, back to reviewing here:)

Thanks stu! |flowers|

I will get back to you with a list of possible linking choices (index, category, submit) and leave it up to you to decide how you'd like to trade. Sweet domain (moviepornlist) and sweet site! I look at it though and it reminds me just how much work i've got ahead of me lol |banghead|

back to designing ... :)

[kristian]

On the night before getting the script, believe it or not I'm having second thoughts on the choice of domain! lol The general consensus seems to have been for MovieLinkList(dot)com. Please help me decided between these two :

MovieLinkList(dot)com

and

PornMovieDirectory(dot)com

|banghead|

[MrYum]

See there...just when you think ALL your ducks are in a row, one of the lil suckers breaks ranks and runs for it!

Agreed, tough call on the domain choice...those are both excellent domains.

Given those two choices, I'd have to go with pornmoviedirectory. It just sounds more 'porny' :D

[kristian]

See there...just when you think ALL your ducks are in a row, one of the lil suckers breaks ranks and runs for it!

Agreed, tough call on the domain choice...those are both excellent domains.

Given those two choices, I'd have to go with pornmoviedirectory. It just sounds more 'porny' :D

I think I agree.

Yep.

Hmmm.

Well ...

Yep I agree.

Porn Movie Directory it is!


... I think.

[MrYum]

I think I agree.

Yep.

Hmmm.

Well ...

Yep I agree.

Porn Movie Directory it is!


... I think.
|haha

Stocked up on extra strength headache medicine I hope :D

[natalie]

If one is a domain you have had for a while and its listed in google I would go with that :D Just my opinion. (I try very hard to not talk about so shit on this board but I couldnt help it) Any wankers come and chew me out I will be pissed off!

[plateman]

looks like I am gonna have to start working on a domain I bought a good while back for a movie LL as well...

[troy]

[QUOTE][/If one is a domain you have had for a while and its listed in google I would go with that QUOTE]

I agree with Natalie

[kristian]

Morning folks |waves|

Thanks for your input guys n girl. Movie Link List isn't listed in google. It is just a domain I have lying around gathering dust. I buy more domains than I can develop because when I come across a good one I can't let it go. The only seo advantage of MLL over Porn Movie Directory would be the length of registration - which would make a small small difference I think. I think the benefits of PMD over MLL are great so will probably be going with that today.

[kristian]

If one is a domain you have had for a while and its listed in google I would go with that :D Just my opinion. (I try very hard to not talk about so shit on this board but I couldnt help it) Any wankers come and chew me out I will be pissed off!

No one will chew you out here. :) Besides when it comes to seo, the jury is out on most issues - which can change at the drop of a hat.

[kristian]

Having said all that -- if anyone can sway me in the next hour or so, go right ahead. I have some things to do before buying the script so there's time.

[Useless]

Having said all that -- if anyone can sway me in the next hour or so, go right ahead. I have some things to do before buying the script so there's time.Screw porn. Invest in real estate instead. |thumb

I continue to agree with natalie about domain choice as you should be able to avoid Google's sandbox by using the old domain over the new domain, but I do see the value in having porn and movie in the name.

[Simon]

Hiya Kristian |waves|

Well...it might depend on how much you want to take on at once.

You have two good domain names there. One hasn't been used yet, but has two good words in it. The other has been online awhile already.

So maybe it's worth considering developing them both at the same time.
|couch|

The reason I say this is that I've found there are almost always at least two good answers to every question. Almost always at least two good ways to do most things you want to do. Two good ways to arrive at the same goal.

For one site you could outsource design, while doing the other all yourself. Submitted sites could appear on both link lists.

Nice opportunity to see if using an older domain really helps one while the newer one gets sandboxed for awhile.

And if you're feeling especially masochistic, you could even use both of your two top script choices, one on each domain, for a nice side-by-side test.

One thing... if you decide to go this way, don't look to murder me later. :D


Simon

[ponygirl]

wow, I just got caught up on this thread :)

I have a teeny little LL lol but I started with no direction, just threw it up as a hub & let it evolve into what it is now, which is still evolving all the time :D I don't think I'll have much input for this thread, more likely I'll sit back and learn what I can out of it - but just wanted to chime in & say this is really interesting, I'll be looking forward to seeing the results of all this work |thumb

[kristian]

Simon --

You're a sadist, my friend. lol :D

What you suggest is actually a fucking great idea. Only reservations I have is it would steer this thread away from the primary intent and the extra work would probably get me locked away for a long time.

Depending on the domain choice though, it would be something I might consider doing here once the first one is setup and running. Would be very interesting I think.

Put the whip DOWN ... back AWAY from the whip :D

[kristian]

Some new webmasters might be confused as to the meaning of google's sandbox.

New sites can get indexed on google but will not show up for relevant keywords until a grace period has elapsed. The average period is anywhere from 3 to 8 months. They get sandboxed. Many marketers believe the sandbox is actually more of an aging filter. Google filters out the new sites until they are deemed worthy of relevant indexing. The only solution to this problem (which flies in the face of free enterprose IMO) is to wait it out.

The good news is that it does not apply to other engines that can give us good traffic. It is possible to get ranked on yahoo and msn very quickly, for instance.

[kristian]

So, back to the problem ...

Having porn movie keyphrase in the title : Is it worth waiting possibly 8 months in the google sandbox?

If I needed quick money, then probably not. But this is a long term project. The answer to the question is what is the best long term decision?

I'm still thinking porn movie directory ...

I think ...

(well this is an adventure!!!)

|banghead|

[kristian]

hey ponygirl |waves|

Welcome to the thread which documents the steady decline of Kristian's sanity :D

wow, I just got caught up on this thread :)

I have a teeny little LL lol but I started with no direction, just threw it up as a hub & let it evolve into what it is now, which is still evolving all the time :D I don't think I'll have much input for this thread, more likely I'll sit back and learn what I can out of it - but just wanted to chime in & say this is really interesting, I'll be looking forward to seeing the results of all this work |thumb

[kristian]

What do you guys reckon?

decisions decisions decisions

[Useless]

What do you guys reckon?

decisions decisions decisionsWell, if you arn't worried about the passing of time, then the porn movie name would be better. Obviously, more people are searching for 'porn movies' than 'link lists'. GG's domain is still better than yours though. |greenguy|

Wait until you see the name of the movie link list I'm working on. Yet again a domain name that no one has ever even considered searching for. I'm good that way. I'm the master of using unrelated words on sites. |thumb
And no, it's not ButtPlugBallFan. That domain is still fermenting.

[kristian]

Well, if you arn't worried about the passing of time, then the porn movie name would be better. Obviously, more people are searching for 'porn movies' than 'link lists'. GG's domain is still better than yours though. |greenguy|

|haha

I know, the BASTARD! lol

[kristian]

About 10 mins folks before I make a decision.

Just think ... you'll be able to tell your grandchildren about this amazing day ... the day I helped Kristian name whatever(dot)com !!!! :D

[troy]

If time is not important I would go with Porn Movie Directory.

What Useless Warrior said more people will search for porn movie.

[sue-fl]

|waves| Finally got around to reading this thread and it's a great one! I won't have much to offer either as my link list is new, I kind of just threw it up also and it's always a work in progress. I'm sure this thread is going to be a big help to me though.

Ponygirl if you see this post just wanted to let you know I think we would be instant great friends in the real world. So many of your posts are just what I'm thinking or doing when I go to post |thumb

Thanks for the thread Kristian |headbang|

[ponygirl]

Ponygirl if you see this post just wanted to let you know I think we would be instant great friends in the real world. So many of your posts are just what I'm thinking or doing when I go to post |thumb

LOL - well we're both just really perverted hehe

Porn Movie Directory going once, going twice...

Ponygirl

[kristian]

LOL - well we're both just really perverted hehel

Two perverted girls . . .

And my mom wonders why I got into porn :D

[kristian]

Porn Movie Directory it is! fhewwwwwwwwww

[kristian]

hey sue |waves|

Good to have you here :)

|waves| Finally got around to reading this thread and it's a great one! I won't have much to offer either as my link list is new, I kind of just threw it up also and it's always a work in progress. I'm sure this thread is going to be a big help to me though.

Ponygirl if you see this post just wanted to let you know I think we would be instant great friends in the real world. So many of your posts are just what I'm thinking or doing when I go to post |thumb

Thanks for the thread Kristian |headbang|

[wazimm]

wow, what an informative thread this is... I also have a domain (newpornlist.com) that's just wasting space on my hosting account. Maybe I should turn it to a LL too. hummmmmm....

[kristian]

hiya wazimm |waves|

Cool domain name. You found the right thread if that's what you want to do |thumb

wow, what an informative thread this is... I also have a domain (newpornlist.com) that's just wasting space on my hosting account. Maybe I should turn it to a LL too. hummmmmm....

[Jim]

I just noticed that I haven't wished you good luck in this thread, kristian. So, good luck on the new linklist :)

[kristian]

Thanks Jim and thanks also for the opportunity to do what we're doing here. The link in the newletter also helped a lot. We're getting some great ideas from webmasters of all different levels of experience. Cheers |thumb

I just noticed that I haven't wished you good luck in this thread, kristian. So, good luck on the new linklist :)

[kristian]

Brief Update . . .

Had problems installing the script last night. This is the first time in a long time I've had problems with an installation. If anyone wants a tgp script or forum installing, I might just do it to get back my confidence! lol A word of warning about Gossamer Links : its a bugger.

Anyway script is installed now. On Sunday I created the layouts in photo shop. Gave those to Amareck who turned them into CSS layouts. Incidentally, although html is a language we all know and love, it is worth your while learning css too. I didn't want to spend time learning it for this project but am intent on getting to grips with it over time. Much of it is simple but I would not know how to design a site from the ground up with it. The reason I went for a css layout, instead of conventional html, is just to keep with the times and offer my sufers faster loading pages and a little interactivity - primarily, I wanted faster load times that would also save money in the long run in terms of bandwidth.

This afternoon I revised the designs so I'm guessing Amareck will be chewing his keyboard before long.

Will post more as soon as I have more to tell. :)

[stuveltje]

good to hear you got the script installed, i use myself the gossarmer free script, and i have alot of extra things there (like blacklist on domain, ip, email, words and more), i dont think its hard to install but then i learned from the start gossamer, i have now one linksite done with css script, i dont know, i dont like it myself , probably i like to torture myself and go with the old fashioned doing every page html handcoding( like with stuveltjes porn, i regret i started sucha big list, so much work:D) still good you have the script running and trying things, looking forward to see your linksite finished|thumb

[kristian]

good to hear you got the script installed, i use myself the gossarmer free script, and i have alot of extra things there (like blacklist on domain, ip, email, words and more), i dont think its hard to install but then i learned from the start gossamer, i have now one linksite done with css script, i dont know, i dont like it myself , probably i like to torture myself and go with the old fashioned doing every page html handcoding( like with stuveltjes porn, i regret i started sucha big list, so much work:D) still good you have the script running and trying things, looking forward to see your linksite finished|thumb


Thanks stu :) I should have something to show you in a day or so. :)

[Xeno]

Brief Update . . .

Had problems installing the script last night. This is the first time in a long time I've had problems with an installation. If anyone wants a tgp script or forum installing, I might just do it to get back my confidence! lol A word of warning about Gossamer Links : its a bugger.


I remember mentioning it at one point that the gossamer is a little bit more to deal with...I personally dislike the script when it comes to installing and its a bugger to modify the templates and the css for it...however, it looks like you got things going with it which is good to see |thumb

The excitement is just beginning :)

[kristian]

I remember mentioning it at one point that the gossamer is a little bit more to deal with...I personally dislike the script when it comes to installing and its a bugger to modify the templates and the css for it...however, it looks like you got things going with it which is good to see |thumb

The excitement is just beginning :)

I'm pleased with the choice but certainly wish it was easier. I guess it's like anything new: bit of a learning curve. Knowing how to enhance and optimise it will be my biggest hurdle I think. For that I may need someone experienced.

Should have some developments to document soon enough. :)

[MrYum]

I'm pleased with the choice but certainly wish it was easier. I guess it's like anything new: bit of a learning curve. Knowing how to enhance and optimise it will be my biggest hurdle I think. For that I may need someone experienced.

Should have some developments to document soon enough. :)
Like sweaty palms...a nervous facial tick...loss of hair...and quite possibly uncontrollable fits of screaming obscenities?

THOSE kinds of developments??? :D

Glad you got the script up and running Kristian...congrats |thumb

[kristian]

A lot has happened this week. I designed the layout of the site in photoshop. Amareck turned those designs into css code. I installed the Links Sql script and my buddy and programmer, Matt, integrated the css to the scripts and also modded the shit out of it. I spent hours pouring over a sketch book, brainstorming ideas for a logo. Eventually I came up with a visual concept and gave it to a cartoonist who is working on it as I type. The site is, for all intents and purposes, built and without bugs. I just need to get it ready for business which will take up most of next week.

THE SITE LAYOUT

I decided to design the layout in photoshop so I could show you guys n girls my ideas. Furthermore, I decided on a css layout, for which I needed the coding skills of Amareck. I could have saved money and coded in html with a little css thrown in but I wanted the site coded from the ground up in css.

Here are the layouts I did in photoshop :

-- entry page (http://www.pornmoviedirectory.com/greenguyjim/entry.gif) --
-- main page (http://www.pornmoviedirectory.com/greenguyjim/main.gif) --
-- today's links page (http://www.pornmoviedirectory.com/greenguyjim/newlinks.gif) --
-- example category page (http://www.pornmoviedirectory.com/greenguyjim/cat.gif) --

I gave these to Amareck (http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/member.php?u=2387) who worked tirelessly to get my visions coded in css. He did a superb job and I highly recommend his skills to anyone who wants a site coded in this way.

SCRIPT MODDING & INTEGRATION

Getting the css to work with Links Sql was one job. The biggest job was modding the script to work according to my ideas.

I needed the services of a programmer. Again, for anyone considering setting up a link list, this is an extra expense that is not required for every project. I wanted the script to work in a different way. Lacking the skills for the job, I had to outsource.

Matt is one of the smartest guys you could want to know. An aussie (but don't hold that against him) with crazy programming skills. Even though Matt is a friend, I looked at other programmers as well. In the end I chose who I consider the smartest: Matt (http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/member.php?u=98).

What I did was this : I told Matt what I wanted the script to do and then asked him to do it. Long story short, he did it.

When the site is ready, you can look around and compare it to how Links SQL usually runs. This will save me writing about his 20 or so hours of work here! lol

LOGO

I cannot stress strongly enough the importance of a logo. University courses cover this subject alone. For anyone interested, here is a succinct article on the subject (http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/0,4621,316513,00.html).

The designer I chose to give me a professional logo is actually not a logo designer. I know, I know. I contacted Dickman designs, spoke to Bruno, who assured me Milena would be in touch. A week later I have heard from no one and had to tell Bruno on icq that I would be looking elsewhere but wanted to inform him first (still no reply to that). On a side not you'd think with the amount of exposure this thread is getting I would find it easy to acquire services.

In the end I chose a designer who does the best cartoons I have ever seen. And believe me I have looked everywhere. Why a cartoon? Lots of reasons. Briefly, it fits with the type of business model I have (link list), and surfers think cartoon logos are professional because they know they cost money (as opposed to fucking around in photoshop).

I chose Twisted Illustration (http://www.twistedillustration.com/).

Since Dave is a cartoonist and not a logo designer, I had to come up with the design idea myself. He does offer advice but this man's strengths lie in artwork, of which he is masterful.

My Concept

I needed a visual concept that would explain what my site is all about without the use of words or further explanation.

After hours of sketching ideas, I decided on a yellow pages / phone book style directory. I then needed to express that is was a directory for porn movies. I had an idea to make it a bit like a popup book. The directory would be open in the middle and out would be popped a sex scene. To make it seem more like a porn movie, I decided to have a porn director shooting a hot naked chick. Then to make it all look cool, I thought about them kind of MORPHING out of the book. The finishing touch was deciding to have light beams shooting from the pages.

Here is the sketch I gave to Designer Dave :

my logo sketch (http://www.pornmoviedirectory.com/designer/logosketch.jpg).

Over ICQ I explained the sketch to Dave and also emphasized some key points. I need the directory book being thick to imply lots of information. I also want lots of stuff popping pout of it (whips, chains, a stocking leg, cum dribbling, a hand, some hair, etc etc). I want to create the impression that on every page there is a new movie just SCREAMING for release. Any second the current scene could be replaced by another as the pages turn. My site has a black background, so I told Dave this would be a cool opportunity to add a wow effect by using beams of light (OTHER MOVIES) shooting from the pages and framing the scene. It is a bit like when they first open that box in the movie Gremlins!

CONCLUSION

We are almost ready for business. The logo should be ready in a few days. I have the mundane task of adding hosted content, fiddling with css, installing some little extra scripts. I also need to be thinking more about getting trades and finding submitters for content. A little seo tip -- get your trades before you submit for inclusion in directories. You might not get spidered again for several months.

Have a happy easter!

[MrYum]

Looking good Kristian |thumb

[Useless]

Here is the sketch I gave to Designer Dave :

my logo sketch (http://www.pornmoviedirectory.com/designer/logosketch.jpg).Nice tits. |thumb

[Greenguy]

I'd like to see the actual pages before I passed complete judgement on them, but from what I see so far, the text on the category & newsites pages are way too big.

[kristian]

I'd like to see the actual pages before I passed complete judgement on them, but from what I see so far, the text on the category & newsites pages are way too big.

That is a fair point dude. :)

The reason I chose to make some headings (ie update dates) bigger than usual is to help in the growth stage. I would usually make them smaller so as to emphasize my sponsor advertising. In the growth stage, however, I'll be selling the site, not the sponsors. I want new surfers to see that we updated that day and so on.

What do you think?

[juggernaut]

Matt is one of the smartest guys you could want to know. An aussie (but don't hold that against him) with crazy programming skills. Even though Matt is a friend, I looked at other programmers as well. In the end I chose who I consider the smartest: Matt (http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/member.php?u=98).

Sometimes it's best to stay away from friends when doing business but I have to agree with you on picking a friend here. I have worked with a few programmers and man just finding one who speaks english and lives close enough to talk on the phone about changes etc is a nightmare. My best friend is one of the smartest computer people I ever met (hes the only one I know who went to computer camp in the summer at age 6). He is the typical sterotype. Very little people skills and walks with his arms stuck down along his sides, lol. Anyway I aksed him two years ago to code me some stuff and he told me it would take 3 months, well here we are 2 years later and he is still coding it lol. But it's nice to know he has the skills and I can call him up and he will come over to work any changes or fixes. You can't get that with contractors. And with any site the last thing you want is someone not calling you back after a few hours of a script problem. Well I love this thread keep it up, good going..:)

[kristian]

Sometimes it's best to stay away from friends when doing business but I have to agree with you on picking a friend here. I have worked with a few programmers and man just finding one who speaks english and lives close enough to talk on the phone about changes etc is a nightmare. My best friend is one of the smartest computer people I ever met (hes the only one I know who went to computer camp in the summer at age 6). He is the typical sterotype. Very little people skills and walks with his arms stuck down along his sides, lol. Anyway I aksed him two years ago to code me some stuff and he told me it would take 3 months, well here we are 2 years later and he is still coding it lol. But it's nice to know he has the skills and I can call him up and he will come over to work any changes or fixes. You can't get that with contractors. And with any site the last thing you want is someone not calling you back after a few hours of a script problem. Well I love this thread keep it up, good going..:)

Encouragement appreciated dude |thumb

I almost hate to mention Matt here because he is so damn good I don't want him to become unavailable when I next need him. lol I was having major problems with the script. Total nightmare actually. The clouds parted though when he said he could do it (he never says he can do something if he can't). I spent a couple of nights on here until 6 and 7 am staying on icq when he needed to ask me something. The hard part is I'm no programmer. I just know what I want. He had the unfortunate task of trying to make a script work according to my vision (which was pretty unrealistic at times). Anyway Matt will get a big head if he reads this. lol

Glad you're liking the thread dude :)

P.S I'm hoping big head means the same in the U.S as the UK. It does not mean I'm gonna perform falacio LOL :D

[Greenguy]

-- today's links page (http://www.pornmoviedirectory.com/greenguyjim/newlinks.gif) --
-- example category page (http://www.pornmoviedirectory.com/greenguyjim/cat.gif) --Are you going to only have 10 links per page?

[kristian]

Are you going to only have 10 links per page?

Those designs are representative. I'll be keeping links to about 50 per page.

I never know when you're joking or not. |huh

:)

[Useless]

What he's say is, the font used for free site titles and descriptions looks huge on the page. Really, really big.

[kristian]

What he's say is, the font used for free site titles and descriptions looks huge on the page. Really, really big.

*scratches head*

I read what greenguy said dude and understood it. Have i missed something? lol |huh

[Greenguy]

Those designs are representative. I'll be keeping links to about 50 per page.

I never know when you're joking or not. |huh

:)I never joke :D

Like I said, I'd have to see the actual pages, but from what I can see on the examples, the fonts are too big. And it's my humble surfing opinion that spreading things out on multiple pages with such a small amount per page stinks.

[kristian]

And it's my humble surfing opinion that spreading things out on multiple pages with such a small amount per page stinks.

I do this for seo reasons, not surfers. Had my site been 10 years old it would not be an issue. With it being brand new I have to be careful about the number of outbound links so I am not seen as a link farm. I actually researched this point a few days ago and it was agreed that 50 free site links per page would be just about ok. The optimum would be around 30 but, as you mentioned, this would look shitty to surfers, so I upped the amount to the maximum of 50. So there you have my humble opinion. I'm not saying I'm right, just that I've researched this and you are the first seo to disagree.

[Greenguy]

I do this for seo reasons, not surfers. Had my site been 10 years old it would not be an issue. With it being brand new I have to be careful about the number of outbound links so I am not seen as a link farm. I actually researched this point a few days ago and it was agreed that 50 free site links per page would be just about ok. The optimum would be around 30 but, as you mentioned, this would look shitty to surfers, so I upped the amount to the maximum of 50. So there you have my humble opinion. I'm not saying I'm right, just that I've researched this and you are the first seo to disagree.
1st off, I am FAR from being a SEO :D

2nd, my thinking has always been that the main goal of my site is to please the surfers so that they will bookmark & come back the next day/week or whenever they surf again.

SEO is fine & I encourage everyone to do some stuff to make their pages better, but not when it interferes with the surfer's experience, because if you never get any SE traffic - or you get it & you loose it for some unknown reason - the bookmarkers are what you will live off of.

SE traffic comes & goes - it's great when you have it & it sucks when you don't - I think |buddy| every day for my bookmarkers.

[kristian]

1st off, I am FAR from being a SEO :D

2nd, my thinking has always been that the main goal of my site is to please the surfers so that they will bookmark & come back the next day/week or whenever they surf again.

SEO is fine & I encourage everyone to do some stuff to make their pages better, but not when it interferes with the surfer's experience, because if you never get any SE traffic - or you get it & you loose it for some unknown reason - the bookmarkers are what you will live off of.

SE traffic comes & goes - it's great when you have it & it sucks when you don't - I think |buddy| every day for my bookmarkers.

I agree with the principles of your argument. In fact encouraging bookmarkers has been a topic in this thread and a driving force in my design of the site. Believe me, everything I have done so far has had the surfer in mind (read my comments on the topic).

I think you agree that the fewer outbound links per page, the better. If we can agree on that, then my argument is this : I don't think surfers will be all that bothered about 50 links per page. It works ok for penisbot.com on their free site section. My surfers will just have to click a link and they are on to the next page.

I'm not disagreeing for the sake of it. Happy to be proven wrong. I want to get this site right, as you well know.

[Greenguy]

My advice is simply to not live & die by SE stuff, because if it never comes or leaves you for some unknown reason, you'll be very happy that you have a solid surfer base established.

[kristian]

My advice is simply to not live & die by SE stuff, because if it never comes or leaves you for some unknown reason, you'll be very happy that you have a solid surfer base established.

I appreciate your advice and I agree with you on this. If you read through my posts here you can see that this is my top priority. I believe I even wrote somewhere about "a surfer utopia". However, If I can use seo without hurting the surfer's experience too much, then I will go ahead and do it.

The reason I need to make this point clear to you, or anyone reading, is this topic of "keeping the surfer happy" is the driving force behind my entire business plan. In a sense, it is the style of the site. With it being the new kid on the block, with us all using similar business plans, this style is my way of market penetration.

[Simon]

Hiya Kristian |waves|

Nice to see you've made a lot of progress!

I met and had a nice talk with Matt online a week or so ago during a chat (on another network) that was nearly empty due to the time change. After talking with him awhile, I bookmarked his site for future LL projects where I want help instead of taking the do it myself approach. Nice to see that I made a good move there. :)

I also wanted to say thanks for reminding me of something I always used to do, but had forgotten about with the new XRT project. You and UW talked about it here:
...there will be no advertising at the start. ...boomarkers, trades and content are priceless... and surfers will get clean pages to encourage bookmarking.
...something MML... and... GG do when they work a new project. First gain the love of the surfers, then work on marketing to them.|thumb

I couldn't agree more with what you're talking about regarding the value of bookmarkers. There are sites I built where I didn't add any promotions for months, sometimes many months. Letting things age and season a bit has worked well for things here too.

On a side note, I saying thanks since I just spent several days going back through all the templates I built when I set up XRT and have now moved the design back to where I first had it, with no banners or button graphics except those of the site itself.

One last thing and then I'm out of here...

...encouraging bookmarkers has been...a driving force in my design of the site. ... I think you (GG) agree that the fewer outbound links per page, the better. If we can agree on that, then my argument is this : I don't think surfers will be all that bothered about 50 links per page.

I like the clean design you're using. I like how you're trying to encourage bookmarkers by giving them a clean, well-designed interface that they can use to pull content from your database.

I know you've looked at LOR. :D

Sorry, but I got a big grin when you said to GG, "I think you agree that the fewer outbound links per page, the better." I just checked the "hardcore" category page at LOR. Not counting links to other category pages, I believe there are around 550 outbound links on that page.

I think GG's using that same basic idea with www.pornmovielinks.com too. I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the intent there is to keep making those pages longer and longer until they're just too long (then invent another sub-sub-category).

So --- one thing I'd love to see discussed here are what I'm referring to as the two opposing camps of LL design:

1. Put all the links you can on one long page, using categories and sub-categories to split thing up when you eventually have too many listings on some page(s).

2. Use a "fixed" page size, with "Next Page" style links to move to more content, instead of scrolling down to see more.

Getting a better understanding of "why" someone would choose one design strategy over another could be a very important part of starting a new link list. IMHO

For any LL owners reading this...

Do you think either design has some inherent advantage over the other that you talk about here?

Do you think one design is more surfer-friendly than the other (and why)?


Simon

[Greenguy]

Here's another thought that just rattled thru my head :)

Every free site submitters knows that the hits come in full force during the 1st day or so of being listed. It trails off a bit after that until they are removed from the "new" page & they are just listed on the category page.

Let's say you get big (and I sure do hope you do) & you're listing more than 50 new sites each day. Every link after 50 gets moved to the 2nd "new" page?

3 days later, they're on the 4th or 5th "new" page where very few surfers will see them?

****

Meatman used to bounce ideas off of me all the time. My job was to poke holes in the ideas so that he could fix them or toss them in the trash. If he had an idea that I could not poke holes in, he ran with it.

I like to poke holes in things :D

[kristian]

Hey Simon |waves|

I'll say one more thing about design on this subject. Have you ever been to one of those tgps that has a million tiny links on their main page? We all have I guess. I fucking hate them with a passion! When I'm looking for porn I don't want to have to SQUINT to find it or spend minutes scrolling down the page to find it.

One of Matt's biggest jobs was modding the directory structure. I have gone to great lengths to make it easy for surfers to find the porn. You will see when I post up the links. I have also made the links and headings bigger than usual for the same reasons. I could be entirely wrong (surfer -wise) but I'm designing a link list that appeals to my own surfing habits : easy to FIND and easy to SEE porn.

Regarding Matt. Honestly, you have made a great choice. As you can see I am as quick to document poor service (Dickman Design) as I am to document good service, so you can trust my opinion. Without his involvement my little project would still have been in the land of the fucked up.

Righto, I'm off to shower and peddle some more porno. I always look forward to your posts dude. I hope we get some feed back on the issues you raised.

[kristian]

Here's another thought that just rattled thru my head :)

Every free site submitters knows that the hits come in full force during the 1st day or so of being listed. It trails off a bit after that until they are removed from the "new" page & they are just listed on the category page.

Let's say you get big (and I sure do hope you do) & you're listing more than 50 new sites each day. Every link after 50 gets moved to the 2nd "new" page?

3 days later, they're on the 4th or 5th "new" page where very few surfers will see them?

****

Meatman used to bounce ideas off of me all the time. My job was to poke holes in the ideas so that he could fix them or toss them in the trash. If he had an idea that I could not poke holes in, he ran with it.

I like to poke holes in things :D

****
I'm having fun dude. You're keeping me on my toes and making me think more about what I'm doing. Keep em coming you sexy big green fucker you!!! :D
****

This is a great point. You're looking at it from every angle. Good stuff.

This all boils down to one thing : How much harder is it to click a link and move on to page 2 than is it to just scroll down the page and see the other links. It is a little bit harder (because clicking is harder than scrolling) but not much. So if they are keen to see more than 50 links they are probably just as likely to click Page 2 as they are to scroll down the page some more.

I compromised on some se in the design phase. When you submit a new link, here is what happens :

Example : You submit a cumshot free site.

Your free site gets listed

- New Links
- Cumshots
- Cumshot Free Sites.

So you get your site on 3 pages.

Furthermore!

I've setup the script to encourage quality submissions.

The better your description and site the more clicks and user ratings you will get. The more of these you get the more chance you have of landing on 2 EXTRA pages -- top rated and cool links.

All in all, I would say the submitter gets more here (BESIDES TRAFFIC LOL) than most other link lists.

*smashes tennis ball back your motherfucking way* :D

[Greenguy]

What exactly will be listed on this "cumshots" page along with my free site? If you tell me cumshot galleries and cumshot blogs, I'm gonna bite you in the face :D

And don't let the submitters pick their own descriptions. Let me put on my SEO hat & remind you that if everyone did that, we'd all have the same text on our pages. Write your own descriptions :)
(and I'm not even going to mention that a lot of submitters stink when it comes to writing descriptions, especially when they get out that keyword generating script)

[kristian]

What exactly will be listed on this "cumshots" page along with my free site? If you tell me cumshot galleries and cumshot blogs, I'm gonna bite you in the face :D

Most of us submit free sites as well as galleries. We always tell newbies to make two galleries out of their free sites. Nowadays most of us also have blogs. No reason why we can't put all those in one place. What are your thoughts dude?

And don't let the submitters pick their own descriptions. Let me put on my SEO hat & remind you that if everyone did that, we'd all have the same text on our pages. Write your own descriptions :)

This is one of the best tips I've had. :)

[kristian]

Greenie --

Been thinking about the links per page. I'm still convinced my reasons are sound, but if anyone knows about keeping link list surfers happy, you do.

A compromise : I list, say, 2 days of links on the latest links page.

Sound cool?

[Greenguy]

Most of us submit free sites as well as galleries. We always tell newbies to make two galleries out of their free sites. Nowadays most of us also have blogs. No reason why we can't put all those in one place. What are your thoughts dude?...I think that Link Lists list Free Sites, TGP's list Galleries, Whatever lists Blogs & that a combination of any of them do not belong on the same page.

You gonna have a Cumshot Free Site page, a Cumshot Gallery page, a Cumshot Blog page & one that combines all 3?

TGP's are what they are.

Link List work because of the Free Site model: more pages, more pics/movies, more ads.

I think that the current state of blogs is horrendous, with more & more morons using the concept of "blogs" as an excuse to push more galleries.

"A blog is your easy-to-use web site, where you can quickly post thoughts, interact with people, and more."

WHAT THE FUCK IS A CUMSHOT BLOG ANYWAY?!?!?!?!? Let's talk about cumshots, guys! |thumb

If you're gonna list all 3 of these, then we really need to change the title of this thread, because I don't want anyone to think what you're doing is a Link List.

[kristian]

I think that Link Lists list Free Sites, TGP's list Galleries, Whatever lists Blogs & that a combination of any of them do not belong on the same page.


I think link lists list ... links.

You gonna have a Cumshot Free Site page, a Cumshot Gallery page, a Cumshot Blog page & one that combines all 3?

TGP's are what they are.


Nope. TGP = Thumbnail "Gallery" Post.

Link List work because of the Free Site model: more pages, more pics/movies, more ads.


I think free sites, galleries, link lists, blogs, are just like commercials on tv. Some are long, some are short.

I think that the current state of blogs is horrendous, with more & more morons using the concept of "blogs" as an excuse to push more galleries.

"A blog is your easy-to-use web site, where you can quickly post thoughts, interact with people, and more."


TGP blogs are pitiful, I agree. I make $15 to 20 K / month from blog traffic. You don't need any pics at all really, just the odd one or two. All you need is to choose the right niche, fuck around with the seo, and use winning text.


WHAT THE FUCK IS A CUMSHOT BLOG ANYWAY?!?!?!?!? Let's talk about cumshots, guys! |thumb

I don't own a cumshot blog, but I'd guess it is one about cumshots. I suspect the webmaster has targetted the cumshot niche, much as you suggested I creat a niche site here, in the hopes of getting cumshot traffic which he / she intends to pass on to cumshot sponsors.

If you're gonna list all 3 of these, then we really need to change the title of this thread, because I don't want anyone to think what you're doing is a Link List.

Better change the title buddy |thumb

[Greenguy]

By your thinking, TGP's are also Link Lists because they have a list of links.

Title will be changed, thread will be moved to the Newbie forum & I wish you the best of luck with your project.

[kristian]

By your thinking, TGP's are also Link Lists because they have a list of links.

No dude. Link Lists list LINKS. Thumbnail Gallery Posts list GALLERIES. That is my way of thinking.


Title will be changed, thread will be moved to the Newbie forum & I wish you the best of luck with your project.

Was it something I said? lol

[Greenguy]

No dude. Link Lists list LINKS. Thumbnail Gallery Posts list GALLERIES. That is my way of thinking...Then why will your "link list" list galleries?

The bottom line is that Link Lists link to Free Sites & Pay Sites and sometimes AVS Sites & other similar lists/pages. Some have other sections like galleries & blogs & POTD & whatnot, but the main focus is the Free & Pay Sites.

What you are building is NOT a Link List in my eyes & based on that, I can endorse this as a "how to" for building a Link List from scratch.

I have no experience in building or maintaining the type of site that you are building, so I will wish you luck with it & keep my mouth shut |shake|

[kristian]

Then why will your "link list" list galleries?

My site will list ... links.

Links to free sites.

Links to galleries.

Links to blogs.

Links to paysites.

Links.

The bottom line is that Link Lists link to Free Sites & Pay Sites and sometimes AVS Sites & other similar lists/pages. Some have other sections like galleries & blogs & POTD & whatnot, but the main focus is the Free & Pay Sites.

You've described some link lists, not all of them. The model is not so restricted.

What you are building is NOT a Link List in my eyes & based on that, I can endorse this as a "how to" for building a Link List from scratch.

I have no experience in building or maintaining the type of site that you are building, so I will wish you luck with it & keep my mouth shut |shake|

Your call. But I have trouble believing this is your reason. :)

[Greenguy]

Then please feel free to enlighten me as to what my reason might be :)

[kristian]

Then please feel free to enlighten me as to what my reason might be :)

It seems clear. You don't like people disagreeing with you. :)

[Greenguy]

The basis of all the problems is that your definition of a Link List is not the same as mine...and I bet a majority of the board would agree with me.

But what do I know about the definition of a Link List? :D

[kristian]

The basis of all the problems is that your definition of a Link List is not the same as mine...and I bet a majority of the board would agree with me.

I define a link list as a site that lists links.

You define it as a site that links to free sites, paysites, and maybe sometimes avs sites. Galleries and blogs are a no-no in your book.

Is that such a HUGE difference?

That is your reason for no longer supporting this project on GreenguyandJim, moving the thread, keeping your mouth shut.

That about right?

But what do I know about the definition of a Link List? :D

Your first remark was a plea for everyone to start posting and hammering me. This last remark was a sarcastic way of implying that you are infallable on the subject of link lists.

Anyone reading our exchanges can see you have been argumentative from start to finish. God knows the real reason. But I feel your attitude has ruined a good thing.

[Greenguy]

I look like I am arguing with you because I was under the assumption that you were going to create a Link List based on the definition that everyone on this board has.

When you approached me about this project, I assumed that you knew what a Link List is. In the adult webmaster world, a Link List is how I have defined it above & all my comments are based on creating & maintaining one very popular Link List as well as numerous smaller ones that only a handful of people care aobut.

I do not know if there is a term for the site that you are building, but I do know that it is not "Link List"

I'm sorry if you feel offended or angered by this, but I don't know what else to tell you.

I don't want anyone to bash you, I just want you to realize that in the eyes of the people on this board & in our industry, your project is not a Link List.

[Cleo]

Kristian I think that most would say you are setting up a directory. At least that is what I would call it.

I build and submit to a few places like that. I have them in both my TGP and LL submit list. The only real issue is you are going to have TGP galleries listed that are just about exactly the same as the galleries on the free sites submitted all listed together.

I accept TGP galleries too but it is a different script, submit form, and my submitters tend to be different then my LL submitters so the galleries and pics tend to be different. Also I have a separate TGP page for galleries that is linked to my LL but is different then my LL.

If I ever started accepting Blogs I would probably make that a separate section too.

[kristian]

I'm not angered. If anyone appears angry here, it is you. I'm disappointed with you.

You are using our disagreement about the definition of a link list as an excuse to terminate your support, unstick the thread, move it, and kill the atmosphere of a public project that was universally liked and helpful to everyone who participated. It is akin to throwing a tantrum when not not getting your own way.

You would have people believe your reasons are due to my "directory structure" alone - the same as that used by penisbot, dangerdave, smut gremlins, off the top of my head. The only difference between my definition and your own is I choose to list galleries and blogs. And for that - for galleries and for blogs - you have reacted as you have done.

I can only speculate as to why you have acted in this way. Surely, however, it cannot be for the reasons you have mentioned. Have it your way though. I'm just sat here trying to make money and enjoy myself. You've sapped my enthusiasm but I will still probably continue with the thread, should anyone be interested.

[kristian]

Kristian I think that most would say you are setting up a directory. At least that is what I would call it.

I build and submit to a few places like that. I have them in both my TGP and LL submit list. The only real issue is you are going to have TGP galleries listed that are just about exactly the same as the galleries on the free sites submitted all listed together.

I accept TGP galleries too but it is a different script, submit form, and my submitters tend to be different then my LL submitters so the galleries and pics tend to be different. Also I have a separate TGP page for galleries that is linked to my LL but is different then my LL.

If I ever started accepting Blogs I would probably make that a separate section too.

Hey Cleo |waves|

I agree. I define a link list as a site that lists links. Some people define it as one that lists free sites, avs , and paysites. Some would say this a directory and that's a link list. It is all semantics. This is not the real issue. And I have never said I would be stupid enough to list the same content.

The issue here is due to my site listing galleries and blogs, GreenguyandJim have officially pulled their involvment, moved the thread, unstick it, and destroyed a happy and productive atmosphere. Over "galleries" and "blogs".

Do you think galleries and blogs are a good reason for that? Of course not.

I've always said it, my honesty gets me in trouble. But the truth is I disagreed when I should have agreed. The punishment is a thoroughly bizarre day and a waste of precious time and energy.

All this over blogs and galleries? I don't think so. The green one just doesn't like debate.

[Greenguy]

I've terminated my support, moved the thread & unstuck it because YOU'RE NOT BUILDING A LINK LIST! I agreed to support a Link List project & not the project that you are working.

All of my opinions are based on what I think a Link List should & shouldn't be.

Had I known that this is the project that you wanted to do, I would have never told you that I'd back it & offer support - I do not know anything about the kind of site you are trying to build, so why would or how could I offer help? I know Link Lists as seen in my eyes & my work.

Shame on me for assuming I understood what you were trying to do. Sorry for the mistake on my part.

[kristian]

I've terminated my support, moved the thread & unstuck it because YOU'RE NOT BUILDING A LINK LIST! I agreed to support a Link List project & not the project that you are working.

You did so because you don't like me disagreeing with you. This is merely a scapegoat you've concocted. The only difference to my idea of a link list and your own is I choose to list galleries and blogs.

All of my opinions are based on what I think a Link List should & shouldn't be.

I'm sure your opinion would be just as valid if we added the galleries and blogs into the mix.

Had I known that this is the project that you wanted to do, I would have never told you that I'd back it & offer support - I do not know anything about the kind of site you are trying to build, so why would or how could I offer help? I know Link Lists as seen in my eyes & my work.

The site is the same as yours except it lists galleries and blogs. You want me or anyone to believe that stops you adding valuable input? How could you offer help, you say? Greenguy, this is just silly.

Shame on me for assuming I understood what you were trying to do. Sorry for the mistake on my part.

Yes, I'm such an unreasonable meanie. I'm sorry for being such an unreasonable, argumentative nasty ole meanie.

What you should be sorry for, Greenguy, is acting very poorly.

[Greenguy]

You wanted my opinion & I gave it to you. If you don't like it, go fuck yourself.

[kristian]

You wanted my opinion & I gave it to you. If you don't like it, go fuck yourself.

I rest my case. :)

[natalie]

:(

[Cleo]

Dude why not just do it Greenguy's way? He does run a very successful LL after all.

[Toby]

When in Rome...

[Greenguy]

I rest my case. :)Ok, that was a bit harsh & I do apologize for it.

But like I said, I can't help you with this project as I have no knowledge of the way you want to do things.

You might as well ask me how to code a script for a search engine, becasue I have no knowledge of that either :)

Again, good luck with your project |shake|

[XPorn]

Hey GG....

Can you help me how to code a script for a search engine??

XPorn

[Useless]

Guess I chose a good day to be away from the desk.
|couch|

Here is my little bitty bit o' input on accepting galleries on a link list, and yes - I definately agree that by mixing galleries and free site listings, by default, means it is not a link list. (allow me to duck as DD tosses a brick at my head) I believe GG prefers the term 'morphed conglomerate'. ;) I still list galleries from a very small handful of submitters on WW. But I did not build a link list with the intention of accepting galleries. It was the other way around. I had a crappy TGP that I decided to slowly phase into a link list to see if it could be salvaged. Every week I try to weed out more and more old galleries. If there is one thing I have noticed since I began accepting free site submissions, it's that galleries on a non-skim site are nothing more than a traffic leak. A couple of my current gallery submitters do submit gals that bring in some hits, but most are dead wait. (Free sites and link lists have a much more cooperative relationship.) So, if you really want my opinion, it would be to toss the gallery listings out the door, or at the very least, keep them seperate from the free site listings the way Cleo does.

[MrYum]

wow...this certainly took an ugly turn :(

Interesting point of contention too. I'm very close to opening FPP to TGP submissions, as well as a complete redesign. Several reasons for the decision, not the least of which is more submissions = more content. Actually I get quite a few submissions every day, just not that many listable sites. Rather than lowering my standards and accepting some of the absolute garbage that gets submitted by the 'teams', I'd rather open to galleries and continue maintaining my quality standards by only accepting quality galleries.

Yea, perhaps no longer a link list by the conventional wisdom, but is it really that much different? This is almost a tomato/tomato thing to me. It is still a site that lists links to content...whether that content be free sites/pay sites/tgp galleries...it's all content.

Anyway, sorry to see this thread get off track...was a lot of good information floating around in here.

[Xeno]

I'll tread carefully here while I say a few things
|couch|

One of the things I've found over the years is that everyone has their own definition of what a link list is...which is fine. I think any webmaster who starts one is pretty much open to how they decide to run it and what to allow in their database. As for moving the thread (or perhaps renaming it), is pretty much up to GG's decision...the important factor here for newbies is that Kristian's project is still going and "they" can follow along and see the progress. I would also think it's important to let them know that there are different kinds of link lists and everyone will have their own version. The idea I think should be the foundations of establishing one. There will also be pro's and con's of what to do and what not to do.

I see a link list as a site that provides links to free gallery sites, blogs, AVS, and pay sites in it's most basic, yet usable way for the end user (the surfer). I've seen a few before that integrate galleries within the standard site results, which is fine, but if a link list is going to or planning to list a "large" amount of them, it would be preferred to put them into their own area. Penisbot is a good example.

I know for mine, I classify 69toplinks as a directory which is more than just a link list (and about to go through a large upgrade). I was planning to integrate galleries into the standard directory, but then thought, nah, if I do that, then it would affect the sites that are listed.

Anyways, its late and past my bedtime, this boy needs his beauty sleep..lol...hope all goes well with everyone and progress continues :)

[troy]

Hi Kristian,

I agree you can do with your site what you want but freesite traffic and TGP traffic are different kind of surfers and I also believe you should keep them appart from eachother.

Can you consider the idea to put them into their own area?

Also note what Useless Warrior is saying out of experience.

If there is one thing I have noticed since I began accepting free site submissions, it's that galleries on a non-skim site are nothing more than a traffic leak. A couple of my current gallery submitters do submit gals that bring in some hits, but most are dead wait. (Free sites and link lists have a much more cooperative relationship.)

I really hope we can continue this thread I am learning every day |thumb

[Simon]

Yanno... if we could all go fuck ourselves, we would have a lot of content problems solved. :D

Seriously though... I hope this thread continues too. It's already saved me from going down two paths I'd have been sorry to get too far down. And it's helped me make some decisions on future development projects.

Way back on page 2, I jumped into this thread and mentioned that the new site I was developing would eventually link to both free sites and galleries, and would have its own blog.

The thing is, I agree very much about the surfers being of a bit different mindset when visiting each kind of promotion. My intent is to have a warning page, like I do now, and offer surfers the choice of visiting the LL of movie free sites, the MGP of movie galleries, or the site Blog.

You see, I think there's a way to feed traffic from one section to the other, but I also think it's going to be tricky to make sure it flows in the right directions, and that it doesn't wind up one big diluted mess.

Which is one thing that I think Greenguy and UW and others have been warning us about here.

I see some very fundamental differences in the dynamics of LLs vs TGPs (and Blogs of course). I'm starting to understand more about "why" LL traffic converts better than TGP traffic. So I'm going to offer my suggestion/vote, Kristian, that you develop separate sections for each kind of traffic.

Now, I'm really a beginner when it comes to LLs and TGPs and Blogs, so I probably should just shut up.

But I wanted to say that I hope this thread continues, no matter whether it's a Link List or a Directory that's getting built. And I really do hope that no matter what's getting built, everyone here would still be inclined to stop by and offer whatever helpful bits and pieces we can.

Okay, that's more than enough out of me.

Simon

P.S. Who am I kidding, if we could all go fuck ourselves, there'd be a lot less people showing up for work today. (Sure, go ahead and say "not me" in your head, we know it makes you feel better.) |jester|

[PR_Tom]

A "link list" to me is a free site list, thats how it's always been. Not a list of any sort of links, but links to submitted free sites.

A list of any sort of links is a "FFA list" free for all. Almost anything goes. Some are not even reviewed, you just go paste a link and submit and it shows up instantly.

I dunno, but if it's called a "Link List" in adult, then it implies (or is inferred with 99% accuracy) that it is a list of submitted free sites, plus your sponsor links (whether they be banners, links to paysites, or text links)

[kristian]

I had every intention of continuing with this thread. We were building what could have been a fantastic informational resource for anyone in the adult industry. Although it began as my thread about my story, in only a few days there were signs that it was evolving into something bigger : Other webmasters sharing their ongoing plans, experiences, ideas and tips, in a manner of openness that is uncommon in our industry. However, in an effort to restore harmony to the board and avoid subjecting it to possible repeats of yesterday's discord, I've decided to limit my involvement to email conversations.

My virtual door is always open and I love a good chat about business. Anyone wanting to discuss topics started in this thread, feel free to contact me.

personal email : admin@pornmoviedirectory.com :)

[Greenguy]

I had a really long post almost completely typed up & then I saw this, which was posted 2 days into it.

Honestly, as magnificent as it all sounds so far, you seem to have strayed away from the golden rule of webmastery. K.I.S.S. Or, as I like to say, K.I.S.C. - keep it simple cocksucker. The basis of a link list is such a simple thing. This isn't rocket surgery or brain science. ;) Just make sure that when all is said and done, you haven't built a list where you yourself don't have the ability to toss shit around and edit on your own. A link list should't require a manual.

As you have your team of engineers and designers :D constructing your list, worry less about pretty - and more about the proper layout of the major aspects, such as paysite links, category link trades, and free site links. Study the big old link lists that have been around before anyone even knew what the F keys were for on their keyboards. Look for chaos and look for strategy - they're both there.

The writing was on the wall then (and I'm pissed that Useless caught onto it before I did :D)

[juggernaut]

Well I have a question and maybe it can help keep this thread on track. What is a proper layout for a LL? I have been playing around with my new site and have not really got to into it as I have alot on my personnal side of life. But from this thread I realized I was doing it wrong, completly wrong. Which is fine by me cause it's all a learning experience. Anyway back to my question, what is the proper layout? Things have gotten so crazy its very easy today to confuse what is right and wrong with any type of site. You can look over someones site and never know if you are looking at the correct stuff.

[Xeno]

There really is no "one layout" for a link list. In fact, its really up to you to decide how you would like it to be and will depend on what your link list will offer the surfer. The key though is to make it so that as soon as a surfer comes into your site, they can easily see where to go to find what they are looking for, or at least give them options to choose from. Nothing should be hard to find and site navigation is definitely important. In simple terms, you should at least have the basics:

1. Category list of niches
2. the ability to easily go to another category from the one you are in
3. the ability to provide easy to find navigation to any other section

For the actual site listings themselves, you will definitely want to have the Site Title, Description, and of course the Link to the site. It is at the descretion how a webmaster wants to list sites: Alphabetically, by date of submission, by hits, by votes, or a combination (if your script allows it).

Not sure if this helps or not, but I am sure the others will offer more :)

[juggernaut]

It does help, but this is why I was confused. Most of the LL you see have their index that has sponsers and trades along with warnings enter links and some have cat links at the bottom, once you enter the cats, again you see mostly sponser graphical ads and the text links on the top that are either featured or premium links that go to sponsers either fpa or hpa, then the FS below that. #3 is the only one that has me really wondering cause alot of the sites I have looked at are not that way. There seems to be so much text and links on the pages sometimes it's very hard to tell if you are even going to stay within the site itself. But as layouts kind of go, thats how I looked at LL. Wrong, right?

[Xeno]

Usually you will find most LL's will have the index with a selection of hard link trades with others and of course, the Warning details that the person is about to enter an adult site...a lot of times the extra text of categories and other things on the index page helps with onsite SEO efforts and again, everyone has their preferences to this.

As for the #3 one...many LL's I've seen have wild text all over the place and could frustrate the surfer and can be hard to find your way around. I think you will find more organized link sites in the form of "directories" but for LL's, some are very easy to use and others not so. I know Ultimate Warrior said before "Keep it Simple Sucker" is actually a valid point for most LL's to establish that mind-set. However, those who want to start a LL should also keep in mind the surfing habits of a Porn Surfer. There are many variables to think about when planning one. I sometimes like to say "dare to be different" but still use the basics. There is nothing wrong with being creative and design it as an encased structured Link list without borderless text all over the page, while keeping a simple clean user interface for the surfer in mind. Penisbot is a good LL...

[Useless]

I've been giving more and more thought about the excess galleries that I have felt burdened with for so long at WW and this thread has motivated me to remove much of them sooner than planned and to get the ball rolling on making it look much more like a real link list. My amateur links (http://www.whoringwives.com/tgp/amateur/) page is one that has been thinned pretty heavily within the last couple of days. The galleries you see left are pretty much gallery submissions from partners and a few old FHGs. Now, compare that to my big tits (http://www.whoringwives.com/tgp/big-tits/) page and you'll see a ton more galleries there. I have a mountain of selecting and deleting to go, but killing most of the galleries shouold increase the amount of traffic going to the free sites, rather than the galleries, some of which are 3-4 years old. I'm trying to preserve the galleries that have been submitted by current parnter submitters, but will eventually prune them in the future rather than listing them indefinately. I stopped listing galleries on my main/new links page months ago and only list free sites there. That was all part of slowly getting my bookmarkers used to free sites after being a TGP for so long. Of course, it does reside in a directory named 'TGP' and that will not change. I'm not going to chance pissing off the SEs just so I can pretty-up my URL. ;)

[juggernaut]

God man did this thread kill this whole cat of the site? There has been no posts here for 2 days.

[stuveltje]

i went again thru this whole thread because i stopped reading it after i posted myself on page 6 or so, there are somethings i wanna say (who cares what i say:D) first i am learning seo, yes they use the big fonts and goddamn do i hate those big fucking fonts myself, i did on my moviepornlist on the index page and it is there for 6 weeks already or so i didnt do my other pages there because .......(maybe because i am a woman) those big fonts dont look good ( i am gonna change mine back to small again) for me a linksite is: listing free sites and listing only my own free hosted galleries and selfmade galleries in an galleries cat, a blogs cat i also have but then on my other linksite, i dont list pay sites well only with my refferer. the word directory means to me, you have all kind of stuff in it and will accept, galleries, blogs, free sites, paysites, searchengins or whatever, directory for me is different then a linksite. Now this is just my opinion.. its a pitty nothing is posted here anymore, kristian if you do believe in your project then you just should post. so your thread is changed to an other forum so what? did that change you way of thinking about your project? what about all those people who where following this thread, yeah in my eyes its also not an linksite, but you where going very well with the thread, so hell oke its not an linksite in others eyes, but who cares? If i was you i would keep posting and go for it:)

[kristian]

i went again thru this whole thread because i stopped reading it after i posted myself on page 6 or so, there are somethings i wanna say (who cares what i say:D) first i am learning seo, yes they use the big fonts and goddamn do i hate those big fucking fonts myself, i did on my moviepornlist on the index page and it is there for 6 weeks already or so i didnt do my other pages there because .......(maybe because i am a woman) those big fonts dont look good ( i am gonna change mine back to small again) for me a linksite is: listing free sites and listing only my own free hosted galleries and selfmade galleries in an galleries cat, a blogs cat i also have but then on my other linksite, i dont list pay sites well only with my refferer. the word directory means to me, you have all kind of stuff in it and will accept, galleries, blogs, free sites, paysites, searchengins or whatever, directory for me is different then a linksite. Now this is just my opinion.. its a pitty nothing is posted here anymore, kristian if you do believe in your project then you just should post. so your thread is changed to an other forum so what? did that change you way of thinking about your project? what about all those people who where following this thread, yeah in my eyes its also not an linksite, but you where going very well with the thread, so hell oke its not an linksite in others eyes, but who cares? If i was you i would keep posting and go for it:)

hey stuveltje :)

I'll make my one and only exception and post in this thread because it's you. I chose to discontinue my involvement here due to Greenguy's attitude and because the thread itself was bringing a negative and argumentative atmosphere to a normally pleasant board. The argument was never as simple as you have suggested. A number of months ago Greenguy and Jim came to me and asked me to document setting up a paysite. It never happened and months later I suggested doing it but for a link list. Greenguy's reason for pulling out of the project here was that he could not support the documentation of a site that listed blogs and galleries. I chose not to believe this could be the real reason because I credit him with more intelligence. The difference - galleries and blogs / no galleries and blogs - is so slight. His reasons given, as many have agreed in private, were simply not plausible.

I suggest you re-read those last few pages. You will see more clearly, I think, that I only ever had good intentions and would never have been so petty - as you suggest - to pull out because of a disagreement over such a trifle as terminology. You might also ask yourself, had you been in my position, giving away such personal details and providing such a useful thread to this community, if you would have been inclined to contine after similar treatment.

Again, let me make it clear, I pulled out because of Greenguy's attitude and the fact that the thread was bringing arguments and a negative atmosphere to what is usually a pleasant little board.

I had plans to do several things with this thread, some of which included building traffic to a link site with a brand new blog feeder empire, growing traffic while in the sandbox to make returns in the first few months, and several seo techniques which - although I personally am not an expert technican - were discovered through expensive paid courses (I'm a believer in education especially when it helps me earn more money). I am not taking these away from anyone here. 9 webmasters are actually corresponding with me and I have several veterans giving me more help and insight than I deserve. The project is still very much alive. I just choose not to continue with it here for the reasons given.

:)

[Greenguy]

Yuppers |thumb

[stuveltje]

ackkkk stu <----- will read all again now in daytime, lol. Well i know you didnt pull out because of the reason i posted , but you guys all write so much that i had to pick one of the examples out of all that writing, because if i realy write what i wanted to say then i need 6 days and a huge novel to explain what i mean with my dutch chinese writing:D Well its good to hear your project is still alive and that you have alot of webmasters giving you the help and corresponding with you to keep your project rocking, looking forward to see when its finished|thumb thanks for posting back, lol it was much easier to just read your post then go thru allllllllll the pages again:D

[Vodka]

As for the #3 one...many LL's I've seen have wild text all over the place and could frustrate the surfer and can be hard to find your way around. I think you will find more organized link sites in the form of "directories" but for LL's, some are very easy to use and others not so. I know Ultimate Warrior said before "Keep it Simple Sucker" is actually a valid point for most LL's to establish that mind-set. However, those who want to start a LL should also keep in mind the surfing habits of a Porn Surfer. There are many variables to think about when planning one. I sometimes like to say "dare to be different" but still use the basics. There is nothing wrong with being creative and design it as an encased structured Link list without borderless text all over the page, while keeping a simple clean user interface for the surfer in mind. Penisbot is a good LL...

Huh, it is the bigger thread i've read in my whole life :D

I like free sites. I'll try it in that way, NetGoonie, and i see what happens, i'm/ve thinking/working on it for some time... Gonna read more theads and learn a bit more today. This is a good board for begginers, your posts are really helping me guys |thumb

[XPorn]

Ha....now its for sale....

[ronnie]

Ha....now its for sale....

How do you know that? Not surprized, like the fetish blog he started then dumped without telling any one.

ronnie

[XPorn]

listed on another board.....

How do you know that? Not surprized, like the fetish blog he started then dumped without telling any one.

ronnie

[remote]

bummer huh, this thread was kind of interesting up till the last page.

[Flex]

Yeah is was kinda interesting 2 months ago when it died |thumb

[Greenguy]

The thread died 6 months ago...the site went up for sale 2 months ago :)

[SaucyPanties]

Never have I read such an informative thread that turned so sour. I did the right thing by starting at page one and I was taking so much in then boom. I was going to make a comment in his defence but then wondered if he should know better. I used to think that a link list listed everything, then one day a webmaster kindly explained the differences to me.

Can I ask you a couple of questions Greenguy on my husbands behalf...
1) Could a newbie link list run on shared hosting or a $20 a month hosting account or is dedicated the only way to go with the software required?
2) With a basic to medium understanding of HTML do you create normal html pages and insert code where you want the links to appear (dependant on software chosen to check links).

Thanks in advance
Tina

[Greenguy]

SaucyPanties:
1 - There are many Link Lists on non-dedicated servers. Hell, there's a lot of domains on the server that has link-o-rama.com - including a couple other Link Lists.
2 - In a nutshell, yes.