Last Night's Radio Show....Next Week's Radio Show

[Greenguy]

Seems there's a lot of hurt feelings after last night's Radio Show (http://www.greenguysboard.com/radio.html) as well as a lot of "conspiracy theories" as to why the topics of this thread - http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?t=28437 - we brought up.

1st things 1st: I did not start to prep for the show until about 6:30 - until that time, we had no fucking clue what we were going to talk about. This is pretty much the norm for the show.

Neither Jim nor I were on the board too much over the weekend, so we both completely missed the mess that is in the http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?t=28437 thread. Once I saw it (not read it, just saw the amount of posts & replies) I thought it'd be a good topic to cover on the show & posted as such. I then read most of the thread to get caught up (I had not read the thread since Thursday & most of the problems came up right after I last read it)

I also saw the genius MattinBlack thread & thought that'd be a good topic as well.

Now, when we started to chat about the "feminist" thread - BEFORE THE SHOW STARTED - the only person in the chat room that I knew would have a strong opinion was Torn, so I asked if he could come on the phone during the show.

During our conversation with Torn, Trixie, who's friends with furrygirl & was also in the chatroom, said that she'd like to come on as well. Getting 4 people on the show (myself & Jim included) is a HUGE pain in the ass (anyone that listened to the show will know this)

The reason no one else was asked to come on was that:
1 - they were not in the chat room, which would mean phone calls hoping that person was on the other end & then getting them up to speed
2 - the topic was decided less than 90 minutes before air time & I really had no idea it would become that big of a deal

If you think that Jim and/or I or anyone else planned any of this, you're sadly mistaken. If you want to dump the fact that my lack of show prep started the ball rolling, then go right ahead. But please, don't insult Jim & me by even thinking that we planned on making some big stinky piss & didn't tell anyone ahead of time so that the show would be controversial.

Yes, we only heard one side of the arguments last night, but we didn't plan on having a big argument & we did run long because of our lack of prep.

I'm not even going to go into my opinions on the topics & I'm not going to speculate on Jim's.

But I would like to ask that Raw Alex & furrygirl come onto the show next week & we can have a discussion about this & the other thread. I can call furrygirl & Jim can call Raw Alex before the show starts so that we don't have another clusterfuck of us trying to get people on the phone during the show.

Please remember, this really is a half-assed attempt at a Radio Show - for fuck sakes, I'm sitting in my basement with a 2 channel mixer & WinAmp! We're not professionals & don't pretend to be, so I think fuck up's like this are almost expected :D

[Jim]

If anyone knows anything about the radio show, they know we almost never plan anything. Half the time we are down to talking about what's on TV. And for a conspiracy theory to be correct, the perpetrators would have to both be together to get it right. I was here babysitting during this last weekend. Greenie was in Buffalo.

[Surfn]

I was in the chat room when GG was trying different titles for the chat. And I was there when all the shit went down. It didn't seem planned to me. It seemed like GG was scrambling to put something together for the next hour.

[Toby]

I will most definately be tuned in next week, should be "interesting".

[Useless]

Oh sure, you finally have a real show instead of discussing HD bullshit and sitcoms and I didn't hear a fucking word of it. If that's not a conspiracy, I don't know what is. :D

[sukime69]

I guess I am sort of mystified that anyone would bother themselves to have hurt feelings over it. But then again, I have not been on this board for a while so dont really know.

I actually just recently found out the radio show was back on and was thrilled. Love to sit here at the desk and listen to "talk radio" about the biz, and I guess I look at it more for the entertainment value.

I missed the email announcing it so I had to listen to the replay, and I was working at the same time so I may have missed some of the controversial stuff, but then again I thrive on controversy.

Maybe I should keep my mouth shut since I havent been around here long, but that is usually not my way |confused|

[KG Gary]

I thoroughly enjoyed last night's Radio Show - it was informative and entertaining, and I didn't get any sort of "conspiracy theory" whiff at all - everything seemed way too chaotic and raw.
Torn and Trixie were superb guests, and it was great to listen to some really strong opinions and emotions.
Exactly what's needed to thrash out the issues, surely.

I think it's much better to get most of these clashes of opinions out in the open now rather than further down the line when more people will be watching with intent to cause problems.
As long as the final outcome is a strong and continued push all in the same direction it's all pretty normal stuff IMHO.
:)

[RawAlex]

As I already sent to Greenguy, I decline to be on the radio show. First off, I have some weekly family time that happens on Tuesday, which would mean changing other people's plans, and secondly, I have long since made my points on the subject and no longer have any interest in keeping it going any further.

I see no upside and a whole ton of downside. Why bother?

Alex

[SirMoby]

I often don't make the radio show because I hate voices coming from a computer. Always have and probably will but I think I'll make an exception for next week. While I don't think the issue is even worth debating because it gets so clouded that I feel people end up arguing unrelated issues I do enjoy both Alex and FurryGirl so I think it will be fun :)

[RawAlex]

Let me add this:

Originally Posted by furrygirl
Good luck waiting for that. You've been nothing but a condescending misogynist prick to both myself and Trixie throughout both of these theads, but thanks for giving me a laugh.

I couldn't care less if you're older than me, and if harping on your age is the best you can do to prove your point and address all my questions, you're not worth talking to. I prefer to debate with intelligent people who have actual evidence to back up their arguments, but you can't even do that. *All* your arguments rest on hysteria and "everyone knows". If I wanted more of that line of debate, I'd go pick fights with creationists or people who protest abortion clinics.

Aww, it wittle Alex all sad that someone on the playground called him a stupid-head?

I have already been labeled, insulted, and otherwise abused in these threads. There is nothing new going to happen by appearing on the radio and listening to more insults and name calling from someone who not only has strong opinions but believes that the rest of us are out to get her.

Alex

[Greenguy]

Oh well, we tried :)

[Toby]

Oh well, we tried :)I'd still be interested in hearing what furrygirl has to say, even if Alex declines to participate. Many people come across far differently in person (or live on the phone) than they do in written form on the boards.

[Mr. Blue]

I think people need to read the actual thread in question:

http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?t=28437

There it is...really read it, because what was said on the radio show regarding it was very inaccurate, things that were said in the radio show just didn't happen in that thread, and I don't think anyone should get thrown under the bus based on fallacies or misrepresentations.

I may not be taking the popular stance here, because I have to agree, after listening to the radio show I thought a few members really acted like misogynistic assholes. However, afterwards I read the thread in question...it goes to prove one important thing...it's always better to form opinion on first hand information than a grapevine retelling of what happened.

So, I urge everyone to reread that thread carefully, I know it's long, but really reread it and then listen to the radio show again. As I said, form your own opinions on what was said in that thread...now that I've read it, I don't think Sirmoby, RawAlex, Surfn, or Walrus presented themselves in a vicious or malicious manner.

Also remember, if you're opinionated, make sure you wear your thick skin on the boards. That's the first lesson I learned in porn :D

[Halfdeck]

Mr Blue, I agree with you, to a point. To me, the feminism issue seemed off-topic at the time. Furrygirl insisted most adult webmasters are against a feminist voice representing the adult industry; that is a complete misrepresentation. I think most of us value what female webmasters like Furrygirl or Trixie has to say.

Still, the distinction she was making between male and female webmasters / TGP and paysite owners was clearly divisive and distracting to the thread.

But what was said on the radio show didn't just happen out of thin air. You have to do better than read the link you posted to see where all that pent-up emotion is coming from (goes all the way back to when this board was temorarily blue).

Trixie was also invited by others to speak on the show impromtu and she was just voicing her honest opinion. Whether what she said was accurate or not, I do see where she is coming from.

The only thing that saddens me about all this is seeing people who usually make valuable post stoop to name calling and completely refusing to compromise or acknowledge a different point of view. If we are going to have a discussion, let it be a rational discussion not a fucking flame war or friends backing up friends in the name of good business.

[RawAlex]

Halfdeck, read that thread again very carefully. The name calling and labelling came from one side of the discussion and one side only. When anyone said "looks like this could be prostitution", the answer was to say that we were little boys easily offended by the oldest profession.

As I said elsewhere: When you come to the table with an extreme manifesto and a huge chip on your shoulder, there is very little chance that your "opinions" are going to leave much space for anyone else, nor are they a good starting point for fruitful discussions.

Alex

[walrus]

Damn, my name popped up and now I gotta listen to the show. Oh well, hopefully it will provide a little fodder for the blog...it's been a bit boring lately without something to go on a rant about!

[Mr. Blue]

Halfdeck, I agree with what you're saying. Also I completely understand the frustration that webmasters like Furrygirl, Trixie, Kat, have to go through in this industry.

I personally never view anyone as "Content" and just that. I treat porn entirely like a business and I want to associate with people that treat it as such, right down to the models. I don't care about gender, I don't care about what avenue of porn you participate in, and I judge people based off of their professionalism.

Also what Trixie said is valid, I respect her right to voice her opinions and they're good opinions.

The only thing that did trouble me was the thread itself was sidetracked by something that wasn't really necessary at the moment. Also, I think some people got a little demonized and a bit unfairly.

Unfortunately the side-effect is going to be harsh feelings, retaliation, etc. and that's not going to help anyone. I just hope that the thread, which is one of the best threads going if you remove the sidetrack, gets back on course.

[spookyx]

Oh sure, you finally have a real show instead of discussing HD bullshit and sitcoms and I didn't hear a fucking word of it. If that's not a conspiracy, I don't know what is. :D


you could have listened with your linux box, with xmms. let me know if you need help. (I know you drink lots of merlot at night and have trouble with computers) :D

[Useless]

Well, I finally downloaded last night's show and listened to the full 1:28. I went through a range of emotions while listening and I paced a lot. I learned that if I come on the board and tell you that "the sky is not exactly blue", someone will go the radio show and tell you that I said "the sky is red". And someone will claim that I'm twisting another's words while twisting mine.

BTW, anyone who doesn't agree with me is a whiner and a dickhead.

[Loganp8000]

Lauren and I just listened to the show. Now it's time to read the threads and I will post my opinions- (Just what we need huh?)

ALOHA

[Simon]

...anyone who doesn't agree with me is a whiner and a dickhead.

I know you are but what am I? |loony|

Simon

::the racist...evidently::

[Useless]

I know you are but what am I? |loony| You are whiney little cunt! Oh wait, that's what Surfn said. Okay, he didn't really say that, but I'm going to claim that what he said was equal to that even if all he did was comment on your age. :D

[Surfn]

You are whiney little cunt! Oh wait, that's what Surfn said. Okay, he didn't really say that, but I'm going to claim that what he said was equal to that even if all he did was comment on your age. :DI resemble that remark :D

[RawAlex]

How dare you call Trixie that? You suck!

Alex

[Ms Naughty]

OK... I still haven't listened to the show, mainly because I was working yesterday, but also because I'm wondering whether I need to spend an hour or so listening to something that may or may not be controversial but will ultimately not make me any money. As fun as the radio show is, I don't have time for it this week.

But can I just say: When Greenie said he was going to discuss that "political influence" thread on the radio show, I thought he was actually going to discuss the original issues - labels, COPA, greater involvement in the FSC and how to get our message out to the public...

While the whole "feminist" thing was originally based on that last point, it has got bogged down in argument and got off topic.

Would Greenie and Jim consider doing a radio show about the original issues?

[Greenguy]

grandma - we've touched on that a couple tinmes in the last few shwos - Jim & I favor a V-Chip kinda thing that installed on all computers where a very simple meta tag rating must be applied to each & every site, otherwise the chip will not let you surf to it. The chip has the option of being turned on/off if the parent's choose to do so...just like TV's (here in the States anyway)

[Loganp8000]

Lauren and I just listened to the show. Our first impression is this.
While Trixie speaks of feminism, in the same breath she calls herself an "indi web whore" Something isn't right about that!
There is a difference between a woman who wants to be treated as an equal, and a woman that just wants to do whatever she feels like doing!
People love to justify their actions in the name of feminism. IE " I am liberating women to be free with my bat up the ass site" While that certainly may be true, it definitely is NOT helping feminism!
As an amateur pay site owner I see to every detail of our site (apart from ccbills part), I could not help but relate heavily to Trixie and what she was trying to say (In her very scattered and holding back kind of way) At the same time, I think during her emotional rant, she overlooked a bigger picture.
I think it was Torn that said it, We all need each other! This is a symbiotic industry and it's only getting bigger.
1. symbi·otic - A close, prolonged association between two or more different organisms of different species that may, but does not necessarily, benefit each member.
2. A relationship of mutual benefit or dependence.

The different species are, the TGP webmaster, the LL webmaster, the MGP webmaster, the Amateur Pay Site webmaster, Pro and Am Models etc...
We all come together to make our businesses more money.
I have heard so many tgp, mgp and LL webamsters say " without us, there is no traffic, we are the lube of the fiscal adult internet" while that is true, I have heard models (who are often wrongly just considered content) say "Without us there IS no adult internet" Like the definition says, A close, prolonged association between two or more different organisms of different species that may, but does not necessarily, benefit each member. Question is where do you fall in the Symbiotics?
One species of webmaster is not more important or special then another! If you want to make a cry for something how about UNITY. There is not enough.
With that all being said, I need to come back to Trixie and her comments on the show. What she touched on that really rang true for for me and Lauren is the fact that while we all need each other for business, we also have different needs and ways from which we go about making our money and our content. For some it's a matter of submitters, for others its joining programs, some people buy it, and then people make it at home too. (lets not worry about people like vivid) As humans we all assume that what things are like for us, must be like for others. like 2257 for example. Well a tgp owner or LL owner etc.. may have no problems listing his home address, especially a young single webmaster with no spouse or kids. But an amateur, particualrly a single female amateur or milf with kids,making her content at home and running it on her own, may have a problem with listing her home address for whois. I just recently discovered this board from MadMax,LL owner and contributor here. He noticed my whois was protected, for this very reason. While he felt comfortable giving his personal info for whois, we don't and we shoot at a different location where our records and business offices are. It's a huge expense and pain in the ass that a guy with a LL or TGP only, just doesn't have to go through to make his sites and money. After a few posts, MadMax and I realized that we both just want to help each other make more money, so he introduced me to this board and here I am! (Thanx again Bro!)
Meanwhile I am just trying to learn to make freesites to LL owners specifications! |roses|
Last thought, I try and work from a point of view that everything I do as a webmaster comes together in a "synergistic" way to give me the success I need and want. tgps>mgps>LL>link trades>ads>other"indi web whores"|crazy| hehe. While I may get more sales from one type more then another, I realize the importance of them all!

ALOHA

[Useless]

Okay, I'll never fucking sleep tonight if I don't get this out of the way. I consider Alex to be my friend, even if he is one of those filthy Canadian folk. He took a brutal and unjustified beating on last night's show and it has me in a god damned tizzy. Yes, a tizzy. If any of you ever feel so fucking outraged at someone's opionions - quote that person's statement verbatim and keep your argument on the board where the person can reciprocate if they so choose. Anything else is just plain cowardess. If you are so fearful that your side of the argument is too weak to win on the board, then shut your fucking mouth and suck it up. I have to do it all the time.

I'm all about cheap shots and name-calling. You know that. But you won't see me changing venues just so no one will be there to call me on my bullshit. Whenever you ambush someone, don't be surpised when they get back up and kick your teeth out.

[Simon]

You are whiney little cunt! Oh wait, that's what Surfn said.

That's it, you asked for it.... UW, on report.... Surfn, on report.

LOL |bananna|

[Surfn]

That's it, you asked for it.... UW, on report.... Surfn, on report.

LOL |bananna|
That does it never ever again. I don't need this shit! |boobies|

[Mr. Blue]

He took a brutal and unjustified beating on last night's show and it has me in a god damned tizzy. Yes, a tizzy.

I bet you're purty when you're in a tizzy.

Back to the point, Alex wasn't the only that got, umm, misrepresented in last night show. If you haven't read the thread yet, read it, because you might wonder wtf they were talking about on the show.

[Greenguy]

Mr Blue - the discussion on the show touched on a couple of threads - if you look for threads that both Raw Alex & furrygirl have posted in, it'll become a bit clearer :)

[Mr. Blue]

Mr Blue - the discussion on the show touched on a couple of threads - if you look for threads that both Raw Alex & furrygirl have posted in, it'll become a bit clearer :)

Geez, they've been at it in other threads? Maybe they really love each other and this is just pent up sexual desire....or....maybe not.

Okay, so I won't speak on that part, but I still think SirMoby, Walrus, and Surfin (unless there were other threads involving this happy group) were just trying to keep the topic on track.

All I'm saying, GG&J Scratch Sheets, just like the horse races you supply the handicaps, tips, etc. before each show.

[Mr. Blue]

Okay, so I read the other thread...reading that other thread just confirmed to me that Alex isn't a misogynistic tyrant, in fact it probably makes me more willing to defend him, but I'm just a lowly TGP owner, gallery builder, freesite builder, blog writer, and reviewer that takes no risk in porn, so I doubt my humble opinion would be worth much.

[fetish1]

Okay, so I read the other thread...reading that other thread just confirmed to me that Alex isn't a misogynistic tyrant, in fact it probably makes me more willing to defend him, but I'm just a lowly TGP owner, gallery builder, freesite builder, blog writer, and reviewer that takes no risk in porn, so I doubt my humble opinion would be worth much. |haha YEP it's apparent you read the other post!

[RawAlex]

Useless, I appreciate your tizzy. You are quite correct, the more and more this goes on, the more and more one side is using name calling and snide comments to "make points" and the less and less they bring to the table. It has gotten down to empty sloganeering and repeated chants that just doesn't amount to much besides noise.

Mr Blue, I thank you as well. However, I do have to correct you, it has been suggested that I am a "misogynistic prick", not a tyrant. It is clear you have read the other threads, and like many "TGP operators", you feel that you have been summarily dismissed as unimportant and not worthy of having an opinion. It is funny to think that a huge portion of the online adult business could be dismissed so easily.

At the end of all of this, it is clear we need each other, but we need each other on a level playing field where nobody is coming to the party with a huge chip on their shoulder, and nobody is prejuding people because of the work they do or the sites they run. Until then, this is all for naught.

Alex

[walrus]

I know I'm late to the party having just recently listened to the radio show. I too would like to thank Mr Blue and Greenguy who managed to sum up pretty well the meaning behind me "biting my tongue". The part he missed is that I do have a personal issue with someone and I said it as a reminder to myself that a personal issue had no place on the board.

Torn or anyone else, you have a problem with anything I post, bring it to me. Im a big boy, I can take it and I'm even a big enough boy that if I'm wrong, I can admit it. Whining about it behind my back...well thats just being a punk.

Trixie - Perhaps with the exception of this post, find a single post on this board where I have been disrespectful of anyone. I find it hypocritical that I'm supposed to be understanding and supportive of your brand of extreme porn (yes I consider red porn extreme) when you obviously can't understand someone who develops an extreme blog persona taking guys night out and pushing it to the extreme. But, if you bother to get past the fact that I over use terms like bitch and cunt a bit on my blog, read past that, and I know you'll find that I am very supportive of women just like you, the independant web girl. In fact, if I wanted to bother searching through my e-mail archives, I know I can find an e-mail that pretty much says exactly that.

[Useless]

But, if you bother to get past the fact that I over use terms like bitch and cunt a bit on my blog...Thanks for bringing that point back to my limited realm of conciousness. Trixie mentioned that she doesn't like being described with our more derogatory marketing terminology. I can't say that I blame her, but she needs to understand how we market to many types of men. I'm willing to bet that you'll get a lot more traffic from a link that calls a woman a "nasty little whore" than you will from one that refers to her as "socially concious, but naked". One of the reasons a man surfs porn is to find someone more daring and dirty than the woman(en) in his life. I'll use my own wife as an example. She is a sweet, attractive, and educated woman. I'm positive that that is all she appears to be to most people. But with me, she's my dirty little whore. Much of the text I write is born from the wacky shit I say to her when we're scrogging. (I'm especially foul-mouthed when she is blowing me.) Does this mean that I truly consider her to be a whore? Yes, but that's an entirely other issue. :D All I'm saying is, when you see your fine self being marketed as a nasty slut, that doesn't mean that we webmasters think that you are really a nasty slut. We're just attempting to appeal to a part of the man's psyche that NEEDS and WANTS you to be a slut.

[RawAlex]

UW, it is the difference for us between being men and being women. Allow me to explain.

Last time I heard a number, something like 80% or more of porn surfers are men. I would bet you that many a TGP or link site is seeing closer to 95% men. As we are men, we are in a unique position to understand and market to men, because, well, we all have much of the same feelings that our clients have. The only difference is that we are more or less extreme on certain issues.

I have a feeling that very, very few of the porn surfers we deal with daily would give a rats ass about "socialy councious", they just want to see some pussy, and work on their fantasies (whatever they may be). They came to spank the monkey, not save the monkeys in india.

I accept and understand that some percentage of the porn surfing population can think nice things and still make the little guy do his job, but in the real world slamming the salami is just a manual version of rutting, which is a primal, base urge that isn't very socially concious by nature.

Alex

[bluemoney]

(I'm especially foul-mouthed when she is blowing me.)
Audio file please :D

[RawAlex]

It sounds like this:

http://www.filmsound.com/waves/duckjob.wav

ALex

[bluemoney]

Damn! I'm going to Disney World!

[Loganp8000]

But, if you bother to get past the fact that I over use terms like bitch and cunt a bit on my blog, read past that, and I know you'll find that I am very supportive of women just like you, the independant web girl.

I can verify that this is true. Lauren wrote the Walrus, not knowing what to expect, and he was very kind and supportive. Posted some links and photos without as much as a hint for anything in return!
ALOHA

PS - Trixie the feminist, prefers to be called " an indi webwhore " |crazy| not an Independant web girl, silly Walrus |jester|

[walrus]

I can verify that this is true. Lauren wrote the Walrus, not knowing what to expect, and he was very kind and supportive. Posted some links and photos without as much as a hint for anything in return!
ALOHA

PS - Trixie the feminist, prefers to be called " an indi webwhore " |crazy| not an Independant web girl, silly Walrus |jester|

Thanks Logan! |thumb

Politically correct terms are simply beyond my grasp, no matter how hard I try

[RawAlex]

It's okay, I am an Indi Porn Monger.

big fat fucking hairy deal.

Alex

[Mr. Blue]

Honestly, I like calling myself The Merchant of Sin...from now on please call me that.

[walrus]

It's okay, I am an Indi Porn Monger.

big fat fucking hairy deal.

Alex
Thanks, I can say that, been trying to figure out how to say "misogynistic prick" for a couple days now

[juggernaut]

Mr Blue - the discussion on the show touched on a couple of threads - if you look for threads that both Raw Alex & furrygirl have posted in, it'll become a bit clearer :)I try to read alot of the stuff here but honestly after one of the bashings I saw Alex take with little or no back up I just stay away. I see him speaking his mind and maybe I have missed something but I have never seem him start the name calling/insults etc. From what I have read if you don't agree with some peoples point of view after a few posts, when they expect you to give up, if you don't they resort to bashing. I see this person helping very little in any of the board sections where people request it, but I see this person quickly jumping in, to put in their two cents which ends up with 30 pages of agruements and the last 10 bashing. I try to stay away from any threads that person posts in.

[juggernaut]

One of the reasons a man surfs porn is to find someone more daring and dirty than the woman(en) in his life. Ok does it make me a bad man if I go into my wifes cam shows as someone else and make her do things I can't tell her to her face? lol

[DJilla]

At the end of all of this, it is clear we need each other, but we need each other on a level playing field where nobody is coming to the party with a huge chip on their shoulder, and nobody is prejuding people because of the work they do or the sites they run. Until then, this is all for naught.
Alex

Didn't listen to the show... was out. Never the less have read most of the threads re: RA vs FG. RA, to me you are generally the most reasonable and on point person around and I've said in other posts I agree with you almost always (but my opinion is meaningless). Name calling which the girls often resort to (as a defense mechanism) probably isn't cool at any level, but I suspect (unconfirmed) that you do bait them just a little |jackinthe . Thing is I think you are doing it "tongue in cheek" and they are taking it too seriously. A little heat all around is sometimes good just for entertainment value and to stir things up.

Here's hoping the girls (women) can lighten up a little and you don't end up with any negative personal feelings over the name calling. We are all in it together despite the divisions of activity.

[Bare]

I try to read alot of the stuff here but honestly after one of the bashings I saw Alex take with little or no back up I just stay away. I see him speaking his mind and maybe I have missed something but I have never seem him start the name calling/insults etc. From what I have read if you don't agree with some peoples point of view after a few posts, when they expect you to give up, if you don't they resort to bashing. I see this person helping very little in any of the board sections where people request it, but I see this person quickly jumping in, to put in their two cents which ends up with 30 pages of agruements and the last 10 bashing. I try to stay away from any threads that person posts in.
Thank you. I've opened this thread about 10 times now trying to think of a way to comment without cursing, attacking, or filling a post with extremely negative comments. You've said it perfectly.

[furrygirl]

Oh, gee, thanks for the generous offer. *rolls eyes*.

What on earth would I get out of it? You get increased exposure due to webmaster's interest in drama and talking shit on me, you have bigger numbers to brag to your sponsors and you make more money. I get to defend myself to a bag of hot air who is too stupid to tell the difference between Trixie and myself and can't even keep track of why he's pissed off at me and which posts on the board are even written by me. You endorsed a boycott of my web site, so I don't really even get the exposure for people who may actually promote my site in smart and interesting ways. I get nothing out of it, so thanks, but no thanks.

Maybe I should start a thread on some other board asking, "How much should I bill those fucking assholes for my time?", like you did when AVN asked you to be on a panel. I mean, I am learning great business skills from the best and brightest pillars of the industry here on GG&J, right?


My lord, there is so much stupid in this thread I could be up all night if I cared to respond to it all. But, I'm going to stay out of this tired old crap for now, because I'd rather go do any number of more stimulating and profitable things with my night. I'm tired of fueling tons of page views so people who hate me can make more money from advertisements.


(And for the record, although everyone loves to represent me as a militant TGP-hater, I am not anti-TGP or anti-submitter. But, I do seem to be the only one here who dares to say that TGPs and link lists are not the most important things in the universe. The cold hard fact is that maybe a dozen of my sales in three years have been the result of an affiliate promoting me on TGPs. So, the argument that I "owe" my business to TGPs is completely idiotic. Everyone does something, but sweet crap, you people need to get out more if you think that TGP galleries are the end-all be-all of the entire sex industry since the dawn of time. My business has only existed for 3 years, but in the grand scheme of things, being in this game for 6 years or 10 years isn't actually much different than 3. It's like hearing a 9 year old go on and on about he's so much bigger and smarter than his 8 year old brother.)

[Greenguy]

Ok, I just became really fucking offended.

Oh, gee, thanks for the generous offer. *rolls eyes*.I just wanted to offer a forum for the 2 of you to discuss things because I feel that I fucked up by not having you on personally & not have Alex on to represent himself. I am just trying to right a wrong because I feel bad about how the last show went. Hell, I'd even offer to get the 2 of you on the phone without the feed up & without my recorder on. That's how bad I feel about the last show.

What on earth would I get out of it? You get increased exposure due to webmaster's interest in drama and talking shit on me, you have bigger numbers to brag to your sponsors and you make more money.You're relatively new here, so I'll explain some things to you about me - I don't give a flying fuck about the money this board or the radio show generate. Sure, it's nice, but I don't need it to survive. Posting on a board helping other webmasters started out as a hobby to me & that's exactly what it was from 1998 to 2003 when Jim convinced me to join him in this venture. Even when I had my own board at Netsurprise, I got ZERO money for running it. My only compensation was 1/2 the ads on the board, which I gave away to other board members that were helping (DDave, Cleo, Alex, Tommy, etc) As far as numbers or rating for the Radio Show, I honestly could not tell you how many people listen on a weekly basis - I just don't care. The one number that I know from the 27 months that the show has been on is 90 - that's the amount of people that listened to the MarcDe ARS show on February 24 2004. You think it's about numbers & sponsors? Fuck me! How often do you see Jim or me sending press releases about contests & whatnot to the PR machines that cover the adult webmaster side of the internet? For fuck sakes, we gave away Super Bowl tickets a couple years ago & the only coverage we got was from Klixxx, because they donated some money to the winner. We're NOT about numbers. We're NOT about money. We're a legit webmaster board that is here to help other webmasters. Plain & simple.

I get to defend myself to a bag of hot air who is too stupid to tell the difference between Trixie and myself and can't even keep track of why he's pissed off at me and which posts on the board are even written by me.You're explaining why I thought you 2 should come on the show. Arguments like this tend to become big piles of shit if they are just on the board, but 2 people talking on the phone with Jim & I basically acting as moderators would be a lot better IMHO.

You endorsed a boycott of my web site, so I don't really even get the exposure for people who may actually promote my site in smart and interesting ways. I get nothing out of it, so thanks, but no thanks.I assume that you are speaking of this thread: http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?t=28745 ????
If so, you are sadly fucking mistaken. I am not defending any boycott, I simply stated that I could care less what their reasons for removing the sites were. The only thing I care about is that he did what Link List owners ask Free Site submitters to do when they remove sites...to let us know so that we don't have 404's or 302's Endorsed a boycott? You show me where I endorsed any fucking boycott!

Maybe I should start a thread on some other board asking, "How much should I bill those fucking assholes for my time?", like you did when AVN asked you to be on a panel. I mean, I am learning great business skills from the best and brightest pillars of the industry here on GG&J, right?So you equate me wanting you & Alex to come on a Radio Show (that makes fuck all for money & has fuck all for listeners) to openly discuss an issue that you 2 have with each other to me speaking about traffic to 300 people at a seminar? Tell you what - I'll call you during the show and as long as you say just one word (it can be the "Hello" when you pick up the phone) and I'll give you my entire profit from Tuesday's show. It's $62.50...yippee! Same offer goes to Alex, but the price drops to $31.25/person :D

(And for the record, although everyone loves to represent me as a militant TGP-hater, I am not anti-TGP or anti-submitter. But, I do seem to be the only one here who dares to say that TGPs and link lists are not the most important things in the universe. The cold hard fact is that maybe a dozen of my sales in three years have been the result of an affiliate promoting me on TGPs. So, the argument that I "owe" my business to TGPs is completely idiotic. Everyone does something, but sweet crap, you people need to get out more if you think that TGP galleries are the end-all be-all of the entire sex industry since the dawn of time. My business has only existed for 3 years, but in the grand scheme of things, being in this game for 6 years or 10 years isn't actually much different than 3. It's like hearing a 9 year old go on and on about he's so much bigger and smarter than his 8 year old brother.)I swear to fucking God, the next ignorant ass that refers to the majority of people on this board with the acronym TGP is gonna get banned. We run Link Lists & build Free Sites. These 2 completely different aspects of the adult internet marketing world might be the same to you, but when you refer to me with "TGP", I can only equate that to me referring to you as either "content" or a "solo girl"

If you don't make any money of TGP's/Galleries or Link Lists/Free Sites, it's because your affiliate program is not set up to do so...which is fine. I don't give a flying fuck what your business model is, but if you wanted advice on what's wrong with it in the eyes of us "traffic" people, I'd give you all the advice I could free of charge (well, I would have yesterday - lol)

You have to remember that when you're here posting on this board, a vast majority of the people that you are talking to run Link Lists or submit Free Sites for a living. You can't bash our business model just because you don't understand it. I'd equate that to me going to an amateur board & bashing all the posters because of the vast number of things that I see amateurs sites doing that go against my business model. And believe me when I say that I am a HUGE supporter of the amateur community - I truly love real amateur porn. Ask around to any of the amateurs that have worked with me in the past - Torn & Kat are prime examples. While my role with amateurs may not be what it was when I had the amateur paysites, I am still a supporter, a fan & I do, believe it or not, understand a lot more about it than you think I do.

What a way to start a Saturday |thumb

[Mr. Blue]

Furrygirl, what can I say, you're an intelligent woman, but you have horrible people skills, at least when it comes to forum posting. A person can be opinionated, but at the same time be respectful of others. A person can be passionate about their views, but at the same time not take everything as a personal attack when someone disagrees.

I don't agree with people pulling your links, that's just silly, but I don't think you've done a very good job of representing yourself and a lot of business gets done on forums, even if it just seems silly most times, its where a lot of us form our business relationships.

GG is right, this is more of a LL / Freesite / Traffic forum, certainly not dominated with TGP owners...if you said some of your comments on a tgp board they would have tied you to a stake already and exploded a nair bomb under you (this is meant for the sake of levity and not to be taken seriously, lol)

Anyway, I think all this has exploded a bit out of proportion now. Your last comment is probably going to start a whole other clusterfuck, but honestly...shouldn't we all be getting back to work? :D

[RawAlex]

I get to defend myself to a bag of hot air who is too stupid to tell the difference between Trixie and myself and can't even keep track of why he's pissed off at me and which posts on the board are even written by me.

First off, your post is insulting because you sink down to name calling again. Can you not make a point without insulting someone first? Is that your game, to come off superior because you feel you crafted a sentence and hid an insult in the middle?

You and Trixie are two of a kind. Your answers are pretty much one and the same, and Trixie even seems to feel that she can speak for you in public. Your answers are the same, your opinions are within a hair of being the same, and your method of debating those points is right on the same. If I took a survey here, I suspect that many of the people would think you either work together or perhaps even live together in that UPS store PO Box where your 2257 records are.

Let's make this more interesting. Show me where I confused your comments. Actual quote, details, information... don't just push hot air or fast type your way out, bring the proof.

Good luck.

Anyway, you are managing to piss off more and more people are you go. Good way to get people on your side!

Alex

[Jim]

Ok, I just became really fucking offended.

I just wanted to offer a forum for the 2 of you to discuss things because I feel that I fucked up by not having you on personally & not have Alex on to represent himself. I am just trying to right a wrong because I feel bad about how the last show went. Hell, I'd even offer to get the 2 of you on the phone without the feed up & without my recorder on. That's how bad I feel about the last show.

You're relatively new here, so I'll explain some things to you about me - I don't give a flying fuck about the money this board or the radio show generate. Sure, it's nice, but I don't need it to survive. Posting on a board helping other webmasters started out as a hobby to me & that's exactly what it was from 1998 to 2003 when Jim convinced me to join him in this venture. Even when I had my own board at Netsurprise, I got ZERO money for running it. My only compensation was 1/2 the ads on the board, which I gave away to other board members that were helping (DDave, Cleo, Alex, Tommy, etc) As far as numbers or rating for the Radio Show, I honestly could not tell you how many people listen on a weekly basis - I just don't care. The one number that I know from the 27 months that the show has been on is 90 - that's the amount of people that listened to the MarcDe ARS show on February 24 2004. You think it's about numbers & sponsors? Fuck me! How often do you see Jim or me sending press releases about contests & whatnot to the PR machines that cover the adult webmaster side of the internet? For fuck sakes, we gave away Super Bowl tickets a couple years ago & the only coverage we got was from Klixxx, because they donated some money to the winner. We're NOT about numbers. We're NOT about money. We're a legit webmaster board that is here to help other webmasters. Plain & simple.

You're explaining why I thought you 2 should come on the show. Arguments like this tend to become big piles of shit if they are just on the board, but 2 people talking on the phone with Jim & I basically acting as moderators would be a lot better IMHO.

I assume that you are speaking of this thread: http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?t=28745 ????
If so, you are sadly fucking mistaken. I am not defending any boycott, I simply stated that I could care less what their reasons for removing the sites were. The only thing I care about is that he did what Link List owners ask Free Site submitters to do when they remove sites...to let us know so that we don't have 404's or 302's Endorsed a boycott? You show me where I endorsed any fucking boycott!

So you equate me wanting you & Alex to come on a Radio Show (that makes fuck all for money & has fuck all for listeners) to openly discuss an issue that you 2 have with each other to me speaking about traffic to 300 people at a seminar? Tell you what - I'll call you during the show and as long as you say just one word (it can be the "Hello" when you pick up the phone) and I'll give you my entire profit from Tuesday's show. It's $62.50...yippee! Same offer goes to Alex, but the price drops to $31.25/person :D

I swear to fucking God, the next ignorant ass that refers to the majority of people on this board with the acronym TGP is gonna get banned. We run Link Lists & build Free Sites. These 2 completely different aspects of the adult internet marketing world might be the same to you, but when you refer to me with "TGP", I can only equate that to me referring to you as either "content" or a "solo girl"

If you don't make any money of TGP's/Galleries or Link Lists/Free Sites, it's because your affiliate program is not set up to do so...which is fine. I don't give a flying fuck what your business model is, but if you wanted advice on what's wrong with it in the eyes of us "traffic" people, I'd give you all the advice I could free of charge (well, I would have yesterday - lol)

You have to remember that when you're here posting on this board, a vast majority of the people that you are talking to run Link Lists or submit Free Sites for a living. You can't bash our business model just because you don't understand it. I'd equate that to me going to an amateur board & bashing all the posters because of the vast number of things that I see amateurs sites doing that go against my business model. And believe me when I say that I am a HUGE supporter of the amateur community - I truly love real amateur porn. Ask around to any of the amateurs that have worked with me in the past - Torn & Kat are prime examples. While my role with amateurs may not be what it was when I had the amateur paysites, I am still a supporter, a fan & I do, believe it or not, understand a lot more about it than you think I do.

What a way to start a Saturday |thumb
I have to agree....except for one thing. We make no money on the radio show. We mention Pussycash as a sponsor because we can't use the program in other ways we promote our sponsors.

Furrygirl, you are very young in this business. You have an awful lot to learn about getting along with people that can make you money. I don't care how much money you make now but with just a touch of people skills, you could have a lot more.

I will apologize to Torn in advance but, Furrygirl, you just acted like an asshole attacking GreenguyandJim for absolutely no reason at all. We have both been neutral in these discussions as we would have been on the Radio show.

I said to act professional and this quote from you is not professional.

"I get to defend myself to a bag of hot air who is too stupid to tell the difference between Trixie and myself and can't even keep track of why he's pissed off at me and which posts on the board are even written by me."

If you would like to continue to post on GreenguyandJim, do not attack the integrity of the site again. And, as hard as it seems for you to be, act professional.

[RawAlex]

Jim, careful. Torn is going to rip you a new asshole for calling Furrygirl "young". You should know that we should never judge people by age or experience!

Alex

[Jim]

Jim, careful. Torn is going to rip you a new asshole for calling Furrygirl "young". You should know that we should never judge people by age or experience!

Alex
Alex and Torn for that matter...I am just making a point. She is not acting as a professional and yet she wants to be treated like one. As I said, we have been neutral in this discussion. You can say anything you want about Greenguy. You can say anything you want about me. But, nobody is going to question the honor and/or integrity of GGandJ.

[Jim]

Greenguy graciously offered a fourum where both could air their grivences. You Alex, gratiously declined. Furrygirl, thought that having her on would pump up our numbers. We don't need no stinkin Radio Show numbers. It doesn't make us a dime.

And for Furrygirl to think so highly of herself, kind of makes me laugh. If we wanted to pump up our Radio Show numbers, we would have on a guest that someone outside of this board has heard of.

[RawAlex]

Jim, I figured out pretty quickly that going on the radio show would just mean another week of "RawAlex as pinata". There is little upside to going on, a ton of downside, so I declined directly. Going on the show to answer questions that are like "Have you stopped beating your dog yet?" just isn't something that is going to have much "up" to it.

My comment about "young" was meant as humor. You know I have been reamed out up and down for the same thing. I don't disagree with you, but the ass reaming isn't far off when you go down that road.

GG&J as a board has honor and integrity that can never be doubted (even as we make dump truck jokes). Nothing here is ever done with bad intentions or from a position of pur vengance, and many other webmaster chatboards could learn something from it.

Now if all the members could catch onto that, we would have something! :)

Alex

[Torn Rose]

Alex if you want me in this please let me know, and then start off by telling everyone what you are really like and what you want to do to people who upset you and then I will be happy to jump in.

[RawAlex]

Torn, since you misunderstood my comments from the word go,posting and rehashing them here wouldn't be useful.

However, you might want to give Jim the same two barrels you gave me for pointing out (in private, I might add) my opinions as to the relative age of Furrygirl and her opinions.

No, wait... you only have an irrational hatred of me...

nevermind!

Alex

[fetish1]

Furrygirl,
You never cease to amaze me. You want to come across like an educated, well rounded female, and by the time you are done with your condescending attitude and your name calling, you end up appearing to be a 10 yr old who just got told to share her toys and is standing in the corner pouting about it.
Oh, gee, thanks for the generous offer. *rolls eyes*.
I get to defend myself to a bag of hot air
"How much should I bill those fucking assholes for my time?",
there is so much stupid in this thread
All very mature and well thought out comments!

The cold hard fact is that maybe a dozen of my sales in three years have been the result of an affiliate promoting me on TGPs
Far be it for me to point out the obvious, but perhaps it was the content that didn't sell your site, and NOT the galleries that were submitted.

I think the most amusing part of your post was to think you are all that and a bag of chips in comparison with GG and being invited ANYWHERE for a fee.

I was an advisor on ANS back when GG had his board there, and he ran that board simply to help people get their start in this biz. That was 2001 and he had been around quite a while, and had quite a strong biz going even then. Then there is you, bragging about being around for 3 years. Your comparison is much like someone giving me my choice...I can pay $100.00 to go see the Tennessee Titans play football, or I can pay $100.00 to see Kingsport Central High play football. Hmm, no brainer, one has draw, the other appeals to a small few who happen to like the high school team.

Apparently with all your worldly wisdom of the internet biz, and your superior intelligence (in your opinion) you have missed out on one of the most valuable assets in this business. PEOPLE and CONTACTS, and the relationships that come from them! You appear to want to make it even harder on yourself by pushing people away. Those very people could be promoting you but you would rather show your ass on a consistant basis so as to make that happen as little as possible.

[Torn Rose]

Stand behind your words alex.

I was staying out of this just like I stayed out of the very beginning of this since at the time it all started it was between two friends and anything I had to say to either of you I would say in private, which is what I did with you which is where I learned the true you.

So either keep my name out of this or be the man you claim you are and stand behind the words you said and don't start the crap "I misunderstood you" since we know you was not misunderstood. In fact if you think I misunderstood them why not share them here?

Thought so.

Anyway if you and FG want to kill each other that is none of my concern, you seem to obsessed with her and Trixy and have been for the last 3 plus months so I would rather stay out of it, but if you really want me in this, you start off and tell everyone the WHOLE story on how I got involved in the first place and where it ended up going, as I said I have nothing to hide and will be happy to repeat anything I said in private once you do the same since I have absolutely nothing to hide.

If not, keep my name out of it, it really is that simple.

[RawAlex]

Torn, your name is in it only because (a) on the radio show you ripped me a new asshole because (in private) I opinionated about Furrygirl's age and experience, and (b) because Jim just made a similar comment.

You totally, utterly, and without a doubt misunderstood my comments, so much so that you cancelled travel plans and didn't go to see your friends because you didn't understand what I had said.

Now you have nothing but a huge grudge against me, and are more than willing to bring the content of private conversations into the public eye and to spew about them in public. You got on the radio show and spewed more venom than anyone I can remember from anyone in a long, long time. You could have left well enough alone, but you, and you alone chose to have another round.

That is your choice, it isn't mine. Everything posted here is about stuff you have posted or said in public forums, and has nothing to do with what has been discussed in private. If you want to violate private conversions, that is up to you. But I suspect that most people here would look down on you the same way they look down at people who share private email or ICQ conversations.

You need to grow a new sense of humor, because your last one was apparently lost in your move to Florida.

Alex

[Greenguy]

Yes, Torn is in this whether he wants to be or not, because he was on the radio show on Tuesday, which is my fault because I sorta egged him on. It didn't take a degree in psychology to know that when I saw a PM from Torn about the "feminist" chat room title, that I could get "good radio" out of it by nudging him a bit.

So blame me - I've asked for this blame since Wednesday & I will gladly take it.

[Toni KatVixen]

I avoid these things unless something really bothers me and this is one of them.

The attack on Greenguy was uncalled for. Yes, there are forum members here that unreasonable, but that is any where you go, the board I use to frequent has a ton of those. In fact, Greenie use to post there until he realized that no one there was actually interested in business and just wanted to flame each and act like they were still in high school.

Greenguy is someone who legitimately wants to help people with the sharing of knowledge and is open to different view points and opinions. He has helped more people then it will ever be known publicly. He is also one of the few who will come out and say that he fucked up.

The radio show is a place where people in the business can socialize, shot the breeze with out spending ton money at a convention. I think DocHolly describe it best on her blog when she called it is a kind of Wayne’s World, but online. It is a way to know that you aren’t the only one out there in the business, heck the majority of the time the discussions aren’t even business, just bs. But if a good top on business pops up, then hell yeah lets discuss that. It is much more beneficial.

Greenguy and Jim try to do what is right, not just do it for the money.

Yes, there are tpg’ers here, but there is huge amount of free sites & link lists. This forum is made for anyone who is open to learning and conduct business.

Yes, as independent sites the way we draw income maybe very different from the others in this forum. But there is no reason why it can’t be utilized and analyzed for a way to work together. It has worked very well for us and we made some very good contacts and friends from this board, even if we don’t use the same business model.

Greenie never said he supported the boycott. He was respecting a submitter’s right to do what he felt he had to do. And as a linklist owner, it makes it easier for him to take care of his surfers by removing bad links. I didn’t agree with CrazySy decision, but I respect his right to make it. I sure didn’t care for the childish bumps that were made to that thread, reminded me of another board that I avoid for its pettiness and trash talking.

Greenguy was giving you an opportunity to address the issues yourself in a different form, because we all know that things do not get expressed properly through the boards and goes down in flames. Even with some members of the board, they are too bitter not to attack no matter how reasonable you come across.

There are many good very points you had brought up and I agree with and yes, I feel that you have been unfairly attacked on several occasions, but the attack on Greenguy was totally unreasonable and uncalled for.

I’m very proud to call Greenguy a close friend of ours.

[RawAlex]

Greenguy, you cannot make people who are not angry suddenly become angry because you put them on a soap box. People have to come to the table with a chip on their shoulder or anger in their belly before the poisonous spew that came out of the radio show can happen.

Your only blame lies in not stopping it or putting a plug in it, and instead dragging Trixie on the air to build it even bigger. Any attempts at defense and redirection were overwhelmed by venom and nasty personal comments.

I am not going to add anything more to this (or much of anything else). I am not so blind as to see what is what, and I have received the message loud and clear.

Alex

[Greenguy]

Thank you Kat |smooch|

*****

I still say I nudged him a bit :)

[juggernaut]

FG. I don't see how you can flame GG&J for speaking their minds and being honest. Hell GG has stood up and is taking the blame here. The way you confront members of this board only shows how open they are to letting people speak their minds. On any other board you would have been banned a long time ago 1) for bashing the owner of the board and 2) bashing other members the way you do. You proved my point, in my post. Your first response in this thread and you could not help yourself, you had to insult someone.
You have proven to everyone that you have mastered the english language and grammar, along with being very smart. No one doubts that. But as intelligent as your posts are, they still hold close and underlying immaturity. It's hard for anyone to side with you, when you post so emotionally but yet so childish.

[Greenguy]

... Hell GG has stood up and is taking the blame here when your mouth was the one with the words coming out of it during the show...What show did you listen to? Trixie was on, not furrygirl :)

[juggernaut]

Sorry, that post took me ten miutes to write, i just smoked some weed and was thinking radio show in my head. Sorry I'll edit it. Lesson here, do not post when high lol.

[Toni KatVixen]

Thank you Kat |smooch|

*****

I still say I nudged him a bit :)

You're welcome. |boobies|

Nudging him on doesn't always take much. He does it to me all the time, kind of fun seeing you do it to him. :D

[MadMax]

A good example of how things get blown way out of proportion sometimes:

I just re-read the thread referred to above in GGs post, and I didn't see anything anywere that even smelled of any kind of "boycott." It was one webmaster deciding to stop promoting a program and thus pulling the sites...and doing what all LL owners ask...posting that he's pulling the sites. I stop promoting sponsors regularly for various reasons, and when I do I pull any sites that promote them. Sometimes it's because the program owner makes statements in public that make me, personally, not want to be associated with the program anymore. I DID NOT see anything in that thread looking like Sy implying that anyone else shouldn't promote the program...in fact he went out of his way to state the opposite.

Guess who was the first person to escalate the drama with the use of the word "boycott"...

Like it or not the personal relationships we develop or destroy have a lot to do with who we choose to promote.

[stuveltje]

i dont see the "sy dropping sites thread" as an boycot, yes i showed my personal feelings there "what i never may do as an reviewer" funny thing is i didnt even readed the threads involved i only heard from others because this "radio thing thread" and the Feminist thread" are both realy the big talk on icq. SY had all the right to drop the sites, yes i didnt agree, but he may do that, and yes it was a very good thing from him to post the sites instead of an 404 or whatever, i was so stupid to ask ( and yeah i knew what he was going to say) and i should have kept my mouth shut there and just acked like an good reviewer and say "oke Sy i will remove the sites". The last days the board is almost only about the radio thing the fight between the people involved, i just hope it will all work out, i like some little fights on boards, but i do prefer the just normal gg and jim board with funny, teasing, joking, and bizz threads. mmmmm and now again, i ealy dont know if i use the right words here, but i just hate, the insulting and name calling or waht ever in thread which can go on and on.:(

[DJilla]

FG you're bogus.
You need to talk a walk around the block... and apoligize.
Next bogus post you write do it in notepad, save it for the next day and then read it. Doubt you'll want to send it. If you still do, you're still bogus.
Business is about people. Some you don't like. You still do business.
Business is about competition. Never give others the club.
I don't know why I like you without ever having spoken to you.
Maybe its because you're so damned bogus.
Your're really bogus.

[Useless]

For the next radio show, I think there should be callers who discuss why I am an asshole. I tend to disagree with FurryGirl's comments, but I usually stay the hell away from the threads she's involved in because she turns them to shit. So why bother? But I want to go on the record as formally being in disagreement with her. I guess that makes me an asshole and well worth a solid hour of the listeners' time.

Also, will someone explain to me when it became a crime to suggest that person's comments shouldn't be taken too seriously since they are only 21? I'm sure that none of you view 21 year-olds as immature and inexperienced in life. Perhaps I stand alone in that view. When I was 21, I thought I knew everything, just like I did when I was 17, and 15, and 10, and so on. Of course, I now realize that I didn't know dick.

Should we pre-emptively apologize to Torn for any statement we make about Furrygirl? Why? Maybe I missed the part of the radio show where he and Trixie apologized to those of us who like Alex, SirMoby, Walrus, and Surfn. Could someone find that soundbite for me? If someone chooses not to like me due to the fact that I think Furrygirl is a dumb kid, well...fuck them.

Now damn it, I deserve a good radio show bashing! |thumb
(and you don't have to be politically correct when talking about me because I'm not a torch-carrying feminist)

[Dr Bizzaro]

Of course, I now realize that I didn't know dick.

Oh come on.... no one knows dick, quite like you.

So i hear.....

[Useless]

Oh come on.... no one knows dick, quite like you.

So i hear.....That's not fair. I was drunk, lonely, and vulnerable that night.

[swedguy]

Thread bookmarked for masturbatory purposes.

[Mr. Blue]

For the next radio show, I think there should be callers who discuss why I am an asshole.

There's a few things you need to do before you'll even be considered.


You have to support Maninism - Kind of like Feminism in reverse
Once you openly pledge your support for Maninism, SirMoby will come along and tell you, "Let's keep Maninism out of this topic"
From there you need to get really defensive and offended. Make sure you take everything as a personal attack and make sure you drink enough coffee because hell hath no fury like a UW hopped up on caffeine.


Do those three things, get the thread to around 7 pages, and you might be considered a profitable talk show guest because you know GG&J is trying to replace David Lee Roth on Free FM, I'm just saying, talent scouts are listening. I have faith in you UW..you can do it |thumb

[Cleo]

This thread is useless without a lot more misogynistic, misandry, blood, and debasement by all.

[plateman]

well I been reluctant to post about this, but IMO both sides have dragged this whole furry girl thing way out, far beyond just a disagreement, shit coming on the last radio show I seen a discussion on the subject and I made a few harmless jokes and got told to "eat shit and die" so ok I said I was sorry and even twice and sent a pm and was ignored, thats ok I can live with someone not liking me... or think I am a asshole..

furrygirl I don't know or care how large your program is but you come off as your better than most because of your opinnions, then you say your biz model doesnt include LL and tgps... I dont know how your getting traffic(I am sure you have some)but IMO your killing alot of it by having this drawed out thing with rawalex(could be anyone)

also why did you come here? to post and spread your oppinions and/or to network with others to grow your program? I dont know how much you know about how much a program can make... but I know one thing for sure its who's your friends, how many free site builders building free sites for your program and how many LL sites have your links, can = a shit load of money... if you dont care about how much you can make... then posting on any adult webmaster your oppinions is a waste of time IMO, what is gonna come out of it....you know... do you think you can make people think different....

also I can agree with most of what you say and I agree with the opposition also..

but bashing and name calling and making enemies over something like this is crazy....

maybe alex and a few others were harsh towards your oppinions but I am sure that it wasnt personal...

I myself like you and think you can make a ton IF you play your cards right....

Maybe we all sometimes FORGET that this great board is a place to learn and make friends, and share info on how to protect our business and figure out ways of getting more or new traffic.... this board isnt a place to loose friends or contacts or be labled as a goof ball(no intention to furry girl)

[Halfdeck]

Furrygirl, I like you. But there's a reason why you are getting bashed in this thread and its not because people disagree with your opinions. It's because you have a habit of resorting to name calling and turning threads into a pissing match. And when you piss in the wrong direction, you are going to get bashed.

Writing posts that basically say "I'm right, you're wrong and you're an idiot for believing you're right" is just going to rub people the wrong way. Voice your opinion, attack ideas (not people). We get more mileage out of sharing different ideas than arguing over who is right. Believing there's one right answer to every question in itself is ludicrous.

It might be hard to believe, but some people on this board dig your site. Some people even agree with your message. But NO ONE will take your side against GG & Jim.

[MeatPounder]

For the next radio show, I think there should be callers who discuss why I am an asshole.
Now damn it, I deserve a good radio show bashing! |thumb
(and you don't have to be politically correct when talking about me because I'm not a torch-carrying feminist)

Errr, UW the show is only 1 hour long ;)

[walrus]

(and you don't have to be politically correct when talking about me because I'm not a torch-carrying feminist)Cool but I cant think of a single fucking thing to call you that you wouldn't actually like

[Bill]

I like furrygirl. But then, I've always dug feminist chicks. Feisty chicks too. More fun to talk with, better in bed.

A lot of what she says is interesting and worth thinking about. She gets off track talking about "TGP" and suchlike, but how many people could stay on message with a dozen big angry guys jumping on their head?

I still don't get why she is being treated like a threat. Is she a cheater? not as far as I can tell. A spammer? Don't look like it to me.

What's the big fucking problem?

Okay, so she doesn't argue her points as well as she could, but as has been pointed out, she's young. How many people here could argue well at her age? Not too many, would be my guess.

This has not been GG&J's finest hour.

Personally, I think this whole ruckus should be dropped as a bad deal for everyone involved.

Please think about letting it go. At least, keep it on the issues.

[Toni KatVixen]

I like furrygirl. But then, I've always dug feminist chicks. Feisty chicks too. More fun to talk with, better in bed.

A lot of what she says is interesting and worth thinking about. She gets off track talking about "TGP" and suchlike, but how many people could stay on message with a dozen big angry guys jumping on their head?

I still don't get why she is being treated like a threat. Is she a cheater? not as far as I can tell. A spammer? Don't look like it to me.

What's the big fucking problem?

Okay, so she doesn't argue her points as well as she could, but as has been pointed out, she's young. How many people here could argue well at her age? Not too many, would be my guess.

This has not been GG&J's finest hour.

Personally, I think this whole ruckus should be dropped as a bad deal for everyone involved.

Please think about letting it go. At least, keep it on the issues.


Very well put.

[Useless]

What's the big fucking problem?.Here's the big fucking problem. I couldn't have cared less about Furrygirl or any of the on-board arguements she found herself in UNTIL two people thought it necessary to go on air to give voice to Furrygirl's name calling and opinion twisting. That sort of performance creates the situation where sides are taken and lines are drawn.
Personally, I think this whole ruckus should be dropped as a bad deal for everyone involved.I think there should have been apologies after that show, yet I don't see them forthcoming.

[Greenguy]

How many times do I have to apologize? :D

I had no major problem with furrygirl either until this last post. I've said all along that I can see both sites of the argument, but I don't feel nearly as strongly about one side or the other as those involved do.

[Bill]

Apologies is an interesting idea. But apologies from who?

Furrygirl had nothing to do with that show. (Altho if she was there she probably would have put her foot in her mouth, I'll grant that.)

Seems like you should be mad at Greenguy first, Torn second, and Trixie a distant third.

Me, I don't really know who Trixie is - I consider her a guest who probably doesn't have a clear idea of the conventions and unwritten laws here. If she thinks Alex is a woman-hater, well, so what?

I love Alex. He's a brilliant guy, and I respect intelligence. But there wasn't a lot of prestige to be gained in this fight, no matter how it went. What's to be gained in beating a 21 year old small scale amatuer?

All the real issues here have been drowned in the noise.

[RawAlex]

I said I won't put anything more in here, but honestly, everyone has long since missed the point.

It isn't about opinions on the matter at hand. Everyone had an opinion, everyone's opinion is right to themselves, and very likely most of the opinions expressed have at least some validity is reality. We all very likely have some part of the truth of the matter and there you go.

However, that isn't the issue.

The issue is a one sided hatchet job, name calling, belittling comments, insults, and the willingness by one person to take a personal behind the scenes discussion that I liken to email or ICQ, and bring it into the public forum.

Greenguy, you are responsible only that you gave two people with a hate filled agenda a forum and a method to express those hateful thoughts, and in some manner legitimized them by doing so. That nobody from this board has taken these people behind the electronic woodshed for a switching leads me and others to consider that those comments may have been at least somewhat sanctioned or encouraged.

I have not seen any apology forthcoming from any of the parties involved except yourself, greenguy, and you know I have long since accepted your apology without issue.

Others apparently don't feel any need, and that is truly sad.

I came to this board to do business and advance my business interests. That is why I am still here. When we get back to business, I will be back to business.

Alex

[Useless]

Seems like you should be mad at Greenguy first, Torn second, and Trixie a distant third.I'm not angry at the Green one and he certainly has no reason to apologize to we listeners. I think he should have moderated the show better by reproaching Torn and Trixie - yes, but he didn't do any name calling.

I was surpised by Trixie's tone. She always seemed much more level headed and intelligent on the board. She was the one accusing Alex of twisting Furry's words, but she was doing the same damned thing to him on the show.

I think Torn was way the the hell off base. Here's the base. Torn was way overrrrrr there. He didn't seem to have anything to offer the show other than his opinion that Alex is an asshole. At least Trixie has something to say, even if she based much of it off her own misinterpretations of board posts.
I love Alex. He's a brilliant guy, and I respect intelligence. But there wasn't a lot of prestige to be gained in this fight, no matter how it went. What's to be gained in beating a 21 year old small scale amatuer?Gain? Do you think he expresses himself for gain? What do you have to gain by asking these questions? What do I have to gain by replying? If was limited to posting for gain, I'd have been finished thousands of posts ago. The man expressed his opinion on the board and was treated to a very one-sided bashing by two people on the radio show in return.
All the real issues here have been drowned in the noise.Did you listen to that show? The issue was "Alex is an asshole."

[Ramster]

Did you listen to that show? The issue was "Alex is an asshole."

So this WHOLE thing is based on the fact that Torn said this and Trixie said something along the lines that she didn't Alex and what he said (and SirMoby and a few others if I remember correctly).

So what. Torn doesn't like Alex and Alex doesn't like Torn. Who the fuck cares. (I like you both)

Alex wasn't on the show. Greenguy said sorry. Noone said anything other than hey I don't like that guy. Who cares. Alex already knows this but for someone reason this thread is still going???

Jesus people give it a rest. Someone made some comments about someone when they weren't there to defend themselves. I bet that's never happened before.

And comments made in private (ICQ or whereever) have NOT come out so can we all stop referring to them every 3rd post. Someone called someone something that someone didn't like and now someone doesn't like someone or the people that someone is associated with.

[Useless]

Fine, fuck it. For me, it's unacceptable for one of my friends to publicly trash another friend without cause. Loyalty never ceases to fuck me all up. Screw it. I don't understand how you guys just sit on the sidelines, acting all uninterested when your friend gets fucked. I don't get you people, but like I said - fuck it.

Warrior out.

[RawAlex]

Ramster, I made no direct comments in public about FG's age.

I know where Torn and Trixies comments on that subject come from, and so do you.

I don't care about Torn one way or another. As I have said to others, I had long since adapted the "leave the past in the past" and honestly thought things had settled down. Heck, I apologized to everyone in the know last weekend that Torn had chosen not to come to the superbowl party. I am more than man enough to have paid little or no attention to him and nothing would have come of it.

The sleeping dog lied until Torn came out on the air, claimed there was some big conspiracy that lead to "feminism" being one of the topics for the show, and called me pretty much everything in the book.

I did nothing except be offended. I am the injured party. I got attacked for no reason, and I am just suppose to sit there and take it?

I am a pretty peaceful guy, but I ain't nobody's shit dumpster.

Alex

[Bill]

Apologies for not quoting as well as you do, UW.

Actually, I did kinda tune out during much of the Trixie portion of the show. She said she was sick, she apparently had been called pretty much by surprise. There was the text chat going on and I focused on that.

The thing is, Alex is a tough guy. I figured he could take a little bashing, and that it wouldn't hurt him or his reputation that much. My reaction was on the order of "Okay, this person thinks Alex is a such and such, but so what?". People are allowed to think other people are so-and-sos. It doesn't hurt Alex in the eyes of the majority of the community.

As I see it, all of this stems from a bitter argument in earlier threads, and most of the smoke and flame we are seeing started earlier, which is why things got so heated now.

The issues in that earlier argument, which were primarily about cc processing for fringe sites and who should speak for the webmaster community, have gotten lost, because the dispute became emotional.

Because it got emotional, and all tied in with feminism and the roles of women, it only took a small miscalculation during the radio show to start up a big fire again. And now we are all suffering, and friends feelings have been hurt.

I thought Greenguy was just being polite when he allowed Trixie to talk so long. I think he thought, like I did, that Alex was tough enough that it wasn't a threat, that it was interesting and controversial content, and that Trixie was an inexperienced guest and that she should be allowed to speak her mind.

Greenguy may not have known just how bitter some of this fight had become in earlier threads.

Oh, and about the "gain" - yes, I totally think Alex posts for gain, just as I do, just as you do, every word is crafted for gain. If only the gain of the pleasure of self-expression. But, you gain prestige points every day for posting like you do, and those prestige points can be traded for business success. So, yeah, I stand behind my talk of gain.

[Mr. Blue]

Bill, I agree, Alex is tough and he can handle himself, but if you post on forums that's exactly what you have to be, tough and that standard has to apply to everyone regardless of age, experience level in the adult biz, or gender. People will disagree with you, people will argue with you, and that's just the way forums are...if you don't have a thick skin, don't post on forums.

The last post FG made in this thread pretty much summed up how she tends to handle forum posting. She may have a beef with RawAlex, it might be genuine, but her shotgun approach of insulting RawAlex often ends up hitting a whole other group of people and soon she's alienated anyone that might have agreed with her.

[Chop Smith]

I am sick of the entire Furry Girl/Raw Alex drama that has continued for months. Both are coming up losers in a pissing contest that should have ended long ago. Blame it on Bush, who is a man and an American, and move on.

[Jim]

How many times do I have to apologize? :D

I had no major problem with furrygirl either until this last post. I've said all along that I can see both sites of the argument, but I don't feel nearly as strongly about one side or the other as those involved do.
I feel the same...
The only 2 people I care about in the conversation is Alex and Torn. I read this thread 13 mins before the show and had no idea what would happen. Alex and I have had disagreements but that's all they were. Both views have been expressed, names were called and feelings have been hurt. Worst of all is Greenguy and I have been dragged into this for no reason other than not hanging up on both Torn and Trixxie during the radio show. And neither of really know how to do that :) It was a miricle that we got them both on :)

Friday, I was going to ban Furrygirl for her comments about GGandJ. I still might...I guess we will see. But it sure did seem a lot more business like around here before she showed up.

I have asked for people to act professional and not call eachother names. That has not happened.

Depending on how this day goes, there probably will be some banning being done. I am just tired of it.

[Greenguy]

We can't ban her for this before she has a chance to reply...I'd rather wait & see what her response is.

[Jim]

We can't ban her for this before she has a chance to reply...I'd rather wait & see what her response is.
That's what I am waiting for. I hope to see an apology but I don't expect it.