Do you think our adult sites have any political infulance

[Tommy]

I was thinking about this COPA thing
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?t=28112


adult sites have been very quiet for years

We have a lot of people visiting our sites
(millions every day)

together we could have more political infulance then cnn or fox news

maybe its time we started letting our surfers know whats going on
how the religious right lead by bush is trying everything they can to outlaw porn

how many of you would run a 4 or 5 lines of text on your bigger sites and hubs

that might be linked to a artice with some facts on some page

[SirMoby]

Here's 1

[mpahlca]

Whats funny is that the more they push to outlaw or block it the better porn will pay, it's just taking the money out of US webmaster's pockets and moving it oversea's Casinos and Poker do a lot of business with US customers how is that possible when online gambling is illegal in the states? Well get ready to move your business overseas!

[Mr. Blue]

I would.

We could probably even take it further than that, but it would be a good start. Considering how much money is in porn we almost have no unified group just for the porn industry. When you notice that industries far smaller than the adult industry has lobbyists, etc to sway policy, it's almost amusing that we have no real unified group for the industry.

To start though, yeah, I'd put a link. :D

[Surfn]

Here's another!

[swedguy]

BANNED!
Reason: Roman Maroni


|couch| :D

[binxgook]

|thumb

[walrus]

I only have little sites but I would....or perhaps take it a step further and setup a petition that gets emailed to the various congressmen by district after xxx signatures.

[Chop Smith]

I am in. Tommy, you are going to let us know what you want us to link to?

[Tommy]

well I was thinking I wanna come up with a few lines of text that is linked to a page decriping bushs war on porn and that tells our side of it


maybe everyone might wanna just link to a copy of the page on their own server

[Lemmy]

Count me in.

[Maj. Stress]

Count me in. It's time for a house cleaning on Capitol Hill. :)

[MrYum]

Yep, count me in too |thumb

I'll even volunteer to donate any one or all 3 of the following domains to the cause;

save-porn.com
save-porno.com
savepornography.com

Given my current hosting hell...and projects I need to get done, I don't have time to develop the domains. But, I'd gladly give them to folks I know from the board that will use them in our cause. Would also alleviate any dup page issues and with good linkage...might really get some page views |thumb

[natalie]

You can count us in, we may be in Australia but your moronic president does effect us. If you get rid of GW maybe we can pry the lips of our ass kissing prime minister off his ass and back somewhere useful.

[Torn Rose]

We have been very open with our opinions to our members inside our member’s area and in our Blogs, when the 2257 scare was happening I thanked everyone who voted for Bush and pointed out what was happening, “why” and what we had to do and what we faced if we was found to be in violating with links etc.

We both will be address this new “google porn records” thing in our blogs and inside our members area just as we always do, but we have been painting all day so we haven’t had time to write our thoughts as yet.

[Chop Smith]

Yep, count me in too |thumb

I'll even volunteer to donate any one or all 3 of the following domains to the cause;

save-porn.com
save-porno.com
savepornography.com

Given my current hosting hell...and projects I need to get done, I don't have time to develop the domains. But, I'd gladly give them to folks I know from the board that will use them in our cause. Would also alleviate any dup page issues and with good linkage...might really get some page views |thumb

Now this is working together. |thumb I would be happy to put one on my server for folks to link to. Tommy could do the page and I could hang it out. Tommy, if I can help in anyway to get this started let me know

[ladydesigner]

I'd also like to be in on this. My link lists and hubs are on the small side but I'm sure every little bit would help. Great idea Tommy! |thumb

[docholly]

I just received my order of 20 of these..

I did not vote 4 bush (http://www.ididnotvote4bush.com)

they were only 3.00 each and well worth the investment. I'm sending them to my cam girls to wear in their shows.

I'm in on all my sites for a link.. |thumb

[Chop Smith]

They are going to wear bumper stickers on their ass?

[Toni KatVixen]

I don't know how much influence I have had.

My blog is not another TPG blog, it is true blog in that I let out my views on politics along with the sex and my everyday mundane happenings.

I do have the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, ACLU, AmericaBlog and several other sites linked to it to try and educate folks and let them know where I stand in the thick of things.

I even have a category for my political vents. :D

So you end up setting up a page representing the porn community on this, I would be delighted to add it and feature some of the articles in some of my posts. |thumb

[MrYum]

Now this is working together. |thumb I would be happy to put one on my server for folks to link to. Tommy could do the page and I could hang it out. Tommy, if I can help in anyway to get this started let me know
You get pick of the litter Chop |thumb

Shoot me a pm and we'll arrange to move the domain to you :)

I love it Doc...those are awesome!

[Chop Smith]

You get pick of the litter Chop |thumb

Shoot me a pm and we'll arrange to move the domain to you

I like save-porn.com but lets see what Tommy has planned. I just want to help if possible.

[nekrom]

While I too am in Aussie land, Bushy is doing a great job of increasing our petrol and fuking with our $AUD. I'm more than happy to spread the "Bush is an asshat, here's why" message. :)

-N

[LowryBigwood]

While I like the idea, I don't know that many porn surfers give a damn about what's going on politically, and if they do, do they at the moment they are searching for porn pics or movies. I think they are wanting free porn and will skip right over the political talk or ads...

But again, it's a good idea, and goodluck on it.

[guestcam]

I was thinking about this COPA thing
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?t=28112.....................maybe its time we started letting our surfers know whats going on how the religious right lead by bush is trying everything they can to outlaw porn

and here I was wondering if I was making the right decision in taking that sort of tact on my newest blog http://www.8-teen.net/wp2/
read the first post and the comment that follows. the blog isnt even close to done, but my start is definately on topic here.............

[RawAlex]

I think I still have bushporn.com :)

Alex

[Toby]

Count me in. I'll put up links and also add a note to my submit completed page telling other webmasters where to go to get the info for adding a link to their sites.

[guestcam]

By the way, my fellow americans and others, you do realize that GW has NOTHING to do with the way things are in America right now. Nor in what the US is doing in other parts of the war.

To sum it up in as few words as possible: if you have seen all the Star wars movies, then you know who JajaBings is, right? THATS GW. Likeable front man without a brain in his head. It wasnt even his idea to run for president. his father and his fathers cronnies came to him and gave him the old 'the party needs you' pitch. And GW said OK.

He does what he is told and has NO ability to comprehend the long term plans of the GOP, never mind the long term EFFECTS of those plans.

Now I mention this not to releave GW of his responsibilities but to remind all you that when GW leaves the office, its NOT going to be all better even with a Democratic party win.

Know who the enemy is. thats step one. And that is The religious right and their puppets the GOP. Just a western culture reflection of Mullahs and their followers.

Put links in your pages to FIRST AMENDMENT issue sites, activities of the right, the gop, US Watch groups focused on Judicial Misconduct ,etc and then place these right next to feeds on Human rights watch groups focusing on Islamic states, issues on US Veterans Rights, Womens rights groups abroad, next to Anti-abortionist groups here in the US. Post the price of Oil next to the Unemployment index. Post Haliburten (spelling?) stock quotes next to the latest Injured, Killed stats for US soldiers in Iraq..........

Juxta position these issues - even if they sit at the bottom of the page in 8 point font and only 14 words are the preview.

AT the very least, you give a GREAT arguement that the next visit from your local law nforcement agency was polically motivated and designed to shut down your site's flow of information:D

[RawAlex]

guestcam, the biggest difference at the end of the day is who is beholden to who. Republicans are beholden to and often run by the christian groups that are out there, from the extreme to the sublime. They are the reason we say "President W" as opposed to "president gore" or whatever. Over a 25 year period, these people have been in power for all but 8 of them, and have stacked the decks at all levels, with judges in many circuits, life long political hacks, and general hooks into all the corners of government.

The Meese Commission wasn't an accident.

To suggest that one party or the other would be "friendly" to porn is stupid, it isn't happening. But I know that Republicans are ACTIVELY trying to throttle and kill off legitimate and protected free speech. The democrats have taken stabs at things with COPA and COPAII, but in each case, they were trying to find ways to limit access to porn from children, not witch hunting our industry.

It is clear between 2257 rules, COPA challenges, and now fishing for porn search information that these people are actively looking for some little hole to drive a truck through and wipe us all off the face of the map.

fuckers.

W certainly is the smiley front man, and I think he often spends his time coming up with justifcations for what the wild and out of control members of his party and administration are trying to pull off.

Alex

[KG Gary]

This is a fantastic idea providing it's handled sensibly. "Bush is a dick" type slogans will be likely to be laughed off and ignored. Try not to give "Mr + Mrs Straight-Laced" any excuses to dismiss the issues.
As we know, polititions tend only to listen when there is mass public outcry/support on an issue, so the amount of support will be a very important factor. Get the numbers. The big logs will ignite the twigs but the twigs will burn with the same fire. (Or something like that)

To gain support from webmasters and really boost those support numbers I would think that keeping it simple, providing a small graphical button that's branded with some sort of acronym, which then links to the relevant page/site for more info etc would be the way to go.

Also, I would avoid directing the movement towards Mr Bush, and aim more for a general "Adult Industry Voice" type of thing.

Of course, you folks know much more than me, but more "small people" giving opinions means there's a greater chance of a solution.

[Dr Bizzaro]

This has been something that I have been discussing with people for a long time. Nothing really ever became of it.

But a central domain that would list a blurb about what the site is trying to accomplish. Also a news section about the war on porn. Also links to articles of what is going on.
A donation link to The FSC. (or even the ACLU)

There are lots of possibilities.

FightTheWarOnPorn.com is available. (as well as ftwop.com)

|thumb

[Cleo]

Not sure if my sites have any political influence but I'm sure that I've upset some religious types.

[Toby]

Not sure if my sites have any political influence but I'm sure that I've upset some religious types.These days that seems to be the same thing :(

[odysseus]

I've heard similar ideas tossed around on other boards when the 2257 thing started getting ugly. Now, I'm all for the idea. 100 percent behind publicizing this madness. But, here is the thing...

IMO, the page that gets linked to has to be breif. Probably no more than a 2-5 minute read. I don't think any surfer is going to spend more time than that on anything when he has his choad in his hand. The page would have to be well written, in lay terms, by someone who knows their shit and isn't Roman Maroni. I don't know many webmasters who are that skilled. I certainly am not. It's easy for us to talk shop, but to mention 2257 and COPA to a surfer and expect them to be on the same page as us is counter-intuitive. This means to me that it's not going to be easy to set up a page. The page itself could have links to further reading, but the meat and potatoes would have to be confined to an easy to digest portion of text, IMO. Also, the point would have to be made that while today it's porn, tomorrow, it's the WORLD!!! (insert evil republican laugh here). I think that once people grasp that fact, they will be more easily motivated to action. Again, just my opinion.

Again, I am all for the idea, and also, have some domain names that may be of use. questiontheanswers.net and .org. I registered them with political intent in the first place and haven't gotten around to developing them.

[SirMoby]

We may want the site hosted off shore. We're facing at least three more years of censorship and my guess is the hosting company and the owner of the crentral domain will come under attack.

This is a perfect place to keep an ongoing blog as well as a message.

[Tommy]

well after sleeping on it

I came up with this

1) if we start attacking political figures they aren't gonna change their ways they will just try to get rid of us faster

IF we made any impact it would be faster and easy er to just get rid of us

2) taking a lesson from the republican party
we need to attack the bad myths about us. we need to tell our side and prove its not true, while staying neutral in the political environment

which isn't hard to do

like the myth that we use our sites to target children
that all of our sites are filled with spy ware and viruses
that passing laws in the us will make any difference in the amount of porn
that we cause or promote the use of child porn

I think that this is a election year if we are gonna put out anything bad about political candidates we should wait till November and maybe even then we shouldn't

also taking a political stand could cost of customers

what do you guys think

[Toby]

...what do you guys thinkI agree, informative and postive. Avoid the political and negative.

[Halfdeck]

It would be cool if we set up a fight-the-war-on-porn fund on the site, and somehow the website got alot of buzz in the media. Whatever fund the site generates then we can pour into fighting the uninformed / braindead policitians.

[odysseus]

I have to say that focusing on the positive is best as well. Smear campaigns backfire. Keep in mind also. While we have a different perception of the situations involved in these wacked out legislations, the fact remains that a ton of our surfers are swinging from the Bush administration's nut sac. I don't think it would help our case to be very offensive on our sites while we are also wanting Bubba Redneck republican to buy a membership to our tranny sites after a healthy round of gay bashing with the boys at work. |crazy| They surf for porn too.

[MrYum]

Couldn't agree more Tommy |thumb

An upbeat approach to who actually sells adult entertainment and our target market is an excellent idea. Try to finally get across the message that the vast majority of us are tax paying business people...plain and simple.

Providing links to FSC and ACLU are an excellent idea as well.

But, basically revealing adult webmasters as responsible business people who sell adult entertainment to adults is an excellent approach.

Oh, and of course there should be absolutely no advertising for adult sites directly on these pages.

[LowryBigwood]

well after sleeping on it

I came up with this

1) if we start attacking political figures they aren't gonna change their ways they will just try to get rid of us faster

IF we made any impact it would be faster and easy er to just get rid of us

2) taking a lesson from the republican party
we need to attack the bad myths about us. we need to tell our side and prove its not true, while staying neutral in the political environment

which isn't hard to do

like the myth that we use our sites to target children
that all of our sites are filled with spy ware and viruses
that passing laws in the us will make any difference in the amount of porn
that we cause or promote the use of child porn

I think that this is a election year if we are gonna put out anything bad about political candidates we should wait till November and maybe even then we shouldn't

also taking a political stand could cost of customers

what do you guys think


I agree with all you said here. If you guys come up with a button or something we can use to link to the pages talking the myths about us, I would run it on all my stuff. I don't care to get into political shit slinging on my sites tho.

[SirMoby]

To suggest that one party or the other would be "friendly" to porn is stupid, it isn't happening. But I know that Republicans are ACTIVELY trying to throttle and kill off legitimate and protected free speech. The democrats have taken stabs at things with COPA and COPAII, but in each case, they were trying to find ways to limit access to porn from children, not witch hunting our industry.

I think that you are very correct and make a clear point on the difference. One political body wants to protect children. The other uses children in their first against what they believe is evil. When you are fighting evil winning at all costs becomes the goal. Winning at all costs has always been the greatest evil of men.

[Beaver Bob]

I'd like to see a big pornographer run for office one of these days :)

[Tommy]

mary carey ran
larry flint ran

[Ann Omness]

As a reviewer for two sites that list adult blogs, I think that most bloggers are missing an opportunity to make your voice heard and maybe educate your visitors a little. Don't you get tired of just writing advertising copy? Adding political commentary would also have perks related to the search engines - new keyword phrases to be found with. An example of an adult blog where the bulk of the writing is about 1st Amendment issues and the religious right is:

http://www.sexxxxpics.com/blog

Some sort of variation of that format might work well on other adult blogs, and it would be nice to see more adult bloggers writing about issues. It would certainly make the reviewing a lot more interesting.

[Jim]

This is the exact same law that was shot down by the Supreme Court years ago. It was an actual law for a month where everyone involved with a child accessing an adult site was fined $50k. From the site owner, to the host, to the isp and finally to the library or school or where ever the kid got access.

It was the Democrats that came up with the original law and Reno went against the ACLU at the Supreme Court. The Court shot it down but it was very scary for a while. Now with the new Chief Justice and with Alito about to be confirmed, things could easily swing the other way. It's too bad there is no Double Jeopardy with the Supreme Court. Or even dismissed with prejudice.

This is the one time where I won't say, don't worry.

[Mr. Blue]

what do you guys think

Whatever is done has to be positive in nature, has to be written by someone who can be eloquent, passive, and non-confrontational. It still needs to be firm though, dispelling myths, and painting a picture of freedoms being denied.

A radical statement, no matter how true it is, will only give fodder for the other side to attack the industry. However, if you make the attackers look stupid by taking the high road...you'll achieve a far greater support.

If this is done, it has to be done right or not done at all. I like the blog idea, but, even the comments would have to be monitored, the "industry" insiders would have to present themselves in a very professional way. BUSH SUCKS, lol, no matter how true it is, wouldn't be a good post.

Do it, but do it right. It can be our best advertising or turn into something for further ridicule of the industry. It's a tightwire act, but I think it should be done.

[odysseus]

I think Mr. Blue sums it up right there. Well said.|thumb

[MadMax]

If someone would like to get all the bullet points together, I'd be happy to go over the copy and polish it. I'm a published writer, editor and back in the day I won awards for some of my work. I know the tone we need and I can nail it, so I'd be happy to be the pointman on eloquence for this little project. An old friend used to say that my specialty was "masturbation of the written word," so my skills may be just what the doctor ordered :D

The best adult biz reference I can give on my writing is Simon, as I've done some extensive work for him. LMK if I'm needed :)

[guestcam]

If someone would like to get all the bullet points together, I'd be happy to go over the copy and polish it. I'm a published writer, editor and back in the day I won awards for some of my work. I know the tone we need and I can nail it, so I'd be happy to be the pointman on eloquence for this little project. An old friend used to say that my specialty was "masturbation of the written word," so my skills may be just what the doctor ordered :D

The best adult biz reference I can give on my writing is Simon, as I've done some extensive work for him. LMK if I'm needed :)
serperation of church and state. God was allowed by the forfathers, the church, the bible, the Koran, were not.

Writings by Jefferson, Adams, and other forefathers, clearly explain the first amendment was MEANT for unpopular speech.

All citizens and groups have a right to denounce the adult entertainment industry as immoral pornography; NONE of them have the right to call for imprissionment or punishment of the indivuduals in the adult industry.

US soldiers are fighting and dying in Afganistan and Iraq to stop Islamic extremists from punishing those selected as violating the laws of god as outlined in the Koran. Why do we allow the clery and their followers in this country to persecute those who violate the laws of god as outlined in the old and new testement.

neither sexual conduct nor sexual materials are immoral. Unless you follow what is outlined in the Holy Bible or the Koran. In the US, I may not be punished nor prosecuted for offending either religious text.

It isnt a fight to protect porn. Its a fight for your rights to not be religious, or of a certain religion, and not face consequences from any government agency because of that fact.

I AM moral;but my moral values do not consider my own or another personals sexual preferences, conduct or tastes as the proper forum to judge someone or myself as immoral.

those are rought cut but that's what comes to my mind as top issues.

H
aka click

[RawAlex]

guestcam, I find that most of the time they try to play the "interest of the state" against the total freedom of speech. If the permitted speech isn't unduly restricted, then the state's interest in protecting children or whatever trumps whatever rights you may feel you have. All of the actions taken in the last couple of years has been in the direction of setting pornographers as a whole as abusers of children, either by allowing children to see the porn, or (cue Darth Vader music) to use children in mainstream porn productions.

I ain't shitting you, these dumbasses think that we all spend out time drooling over the 12 year old girl next door, trying to scam her into being in a porn movie that will be sold commercially and shown on HBO or whatever.

It is an interesting ploy to first tar and feather the industry as a whole, and then complain about the mess and the smell. By the time we get our shit together and start trying to get the tar off, they have already gotten the general public on their side and we look like shit.

"Senator, have you stopped beating your wife yet?"

"Mr Pornographer, have you stopped using children in your hardcore movies?"

Think about it.

Alex

[guestcam]

guestcam, I find that most of the time they try to play the "interest of the state" against the total freedom of speech. If the permitted speech isn't unduly restricted, then the state's interest in protecting children or whatever trumps whatever rights you may feel you have. All of the actions taken in the last couple of years has been in the direction of setting pornographers as a whole as abusers of children, either by allowing children to see the porn, or (cue Darth Vader music) to use children in mainstream porn productions.

I ain't shitting you, these dumbasses think that we all spend out time drooling over the 12 year old girl next door, trying to scam her into being in a porn movie that will be sold commercially and shown on HBO or whatever.

It is an interesting ploy to first tar and feather the industry as a whole, and then complain about the mess and the smell. By the time we get our shit together and start trying to get the tar off, they have already gotten the general public on their side and we look like shit.

"Senator, have you stopped beating your wife yet?"

"Mr Pornographer, have you stopped using children in your hardcore movies?"

Think about it.

Alexyou're preaching to the choir Alex:D I dont disagree with you at all. My last post was answering what IMHO were talking points on this fight.

Dont get me started on the dumbasses who try to equate an adult website as the same as molesting a child! Its religious zelots who want to put people in jail for violating god's law. That this is illegal in the US isnt enough to save our asses; we need to remind ALOT of judicial personnel about that consituitional fact too.

[MadMax]

serperation of church and state. God was allowed by the forfathers, the church, the bible, the Koran, were not.

Writings by Jefferson, Adams, and other forefathers, clearly explain the first amendment was MEANT for unpopular speech.

All citizens and groups have a right to denounce the adult entertainment industry as immoral pornography; NONE of them have the right to call for imprissionment or punishment of the indivuduals in the adult industry.

US soldiers are fighting and dying in Afganistan and Iraq to stop Islamic extremists from punishing those selected as violating the laws of god as outlined in the Koran. Why do we allow the clery and their followers in this country to persecute those who violate the laws of god as outlined in the old and new testement.

neither sexual conduct nor sexual materials are immoral. Unless you follow what is outlined in the Holy Bible or the Koran. In the US, I may not be punished nor prosecuted for offending either religious text.

It isnt a fight to protect porn. Its a fight for your rights to not be religious, or of a certain religion, and not face consequences from any government agency because of that fact.

I AM moral;but my moral values do not consider my own or another personals sexual preferences, conduct or tastes as the proper forum to judge someone or myself as immoral.

those are rought cut but that's what comes to my mind as top issues.

H
aka click


While you're making valid points there, most of them don't belong in the kind of statement we're talking about here. Think press release. Think positive spin. If we don't start name-calling and denouncing those who disagree with us or even hate us, it will be more difficult for them to turn our words against us :)

[guestcam]

While you're making valid points there, most of them don't belong in the kind of statement we're talking about here. Think press release. Think positive spin. If we don't start name-calling and denouncing those who disagree with us or even hate us, it will be more difficult for them to turn our words against us :)

I dont think I get what you mean there.

you want to prevent us from prosecution, persecution and civil law suits with press releases and name calling? Am I reading that correctly?

[MadMax]

you want to prevent us from prosecution, persecution and civil law suits with press releases and name calling? Am I reading that correctly?

Nope :)

I mean that if we're going to draft some sort of statement it needs to be approached as something positive (like a press release, even though it isn't), and that we can't start name calling or being irate if the goal is to try and send a message to the surfers that we're actually responsible business people; not the kind of monsters and sickos that the government makes us out to be :)

[guestcam]

Nope :)

............that we can't start name calling or being irate if the goal is to try and send a message to the surfers that we're actually responsible business people; not the kind of monsters and sickos that the government makes us out to be :)
well for the record, I am not thinking about sending a message to the surfers about how we arent monsters. I assume my surfers know that already.

The message I want to send to my surfers is STOP BEING FUCKING SILENT CUZ AFTER THEY JAIL ALL THE WEBMASTERS THE SURFERS ARE NEXT. They being <insert bad name here> shits that want to JAIL ME BECAUSE I OFFEND THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS.

Here again, read the main problem, the problem that might put you in jail - THEY WANT TO PUT YOU IN JAIL YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE OFFENSIVE TO GOD AND ALL GOOD PEOPLE.

Dont be nice to the people who beleive that. Your neighbors cousin's kid step on a mine last week to stop people like that half a world away. Dont be nice to people like that in our own backyard.

Call them what they are: fucking monsters. They want to PUT YOU IN JAIL for political gain.

I'm sorry but thats a fucking monster. Maybe we dont use the actual words 'fucking monster' while were writing up the wording for the manifesto, but if you dont get it in your head that IS HOW YOU NEED TO TREAT THEM and see them, we will, next year or next decade, find our asses in jail.

PUT YOU IN PRISON BECAUSE YOU OFFEND GOD. PRISON. Jail. Rape Camp. Get it?

[guestcam]

While you're making valid points there, most of them don't belong in the kind of statement we're talking about here. Think press release. Think positive spin. If we don't start name-calling and denouncing those who disagree with us or even hate us, it will be more difficult for them to turn our words against us :)

by the way, to your original point in post #53 of this thread. You quote me and then say "Think positive spin. If we don't start name-calling ".

Looking at what I wrote in my listing of talking points - please point out to me which of those is
1. name calling
2. negative

because I see niether (in that post).

[tickler]

....maybe everyone might wanna just link to a copy of the page on their own server
Muliple sites with the same page
vs.
Multiple sites pointing to the same page

Perhaps Bill could SEO it, and perhaps set some doorway pages with different keywords, etc.

Seems like the religious fundalmentalists in Washington might be getting upset that the new government in Iraq might be run by religious fundalmentalists.|huh

[Simon]

The best adult biz reference I can give on my writing is Simon, as I've done some extensive work for him.

Yes, I'd be willing to link to an accurate, well-written, positive statement hosted somewhere. And yes, I can tel you that Max definitely has the necessary skills and knowledge to pull off writing the kind of thing we'd need here.

Simon


Daily Wit: "Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?"

[Linkster]

This is the exact same law that was shot down by the Supreme Court years ago. It was an actual law for a month where everyone involved with a child accessing an adult site was fined $50k. From the site owner, to the host, to the isp and finally to the library or school or where ever the kid got access.

It was the Democrats that came up with the original law and Reno went against the ACLU at the Supreme Court. The Court shot it down but it was very scary for a while. Now with the new Chief Justice and with Alito about to be confirmed, things could easily swing the other way. It's too bad there is no Double Jeopardy with the Supreme Court. Or even dismissed with prejudice.
.

Jim - thats the thing thats being missed by a lot of people here - we did do something on our websites back then and it seemed to actually garner some support in the media/public back then (remember the ribbons and black page websites?)

And you are totally correct - all of the recent "fervor" over these issues is all (according to the filing papers the DOJ just filed in court) linked back to this original law that was overturned by the Supreme Court. When they overturned it the case was NOT closed - the court gave DOJ recommendations on how to make their case more solid - and that is why the recent request was put out to the search engines for data - so that DOJ could win this time.

[cosmiccat]

Does anyone ever wonder if the idiots in Washington watch these boards?

[Ann Omness]

My two cents: While educating the public on freedom of speech issues and civil liberty is a laudable sentiment, it has little impact on the government. This is not a democracy. 98% of the election races have their results predetermined by gerrymandering by the party in power. Very few seats are genuinely up for grabs. The politicians are the ones who need to be educated, and they only listen when they're being paid to listen, or when you can demonstrate that you have a large, cohesive bloc of voters under your thumb. They vote for the hand that feeds them. Unless the adult industry comes up with a way to buy politicians just like the other special interest groups do, this industry will never have any respresentation in government.

[walrus]

Does anyone ever wonder if the idiots in Washington watch these boards?Nope, I have absolutely no doubt they do.

Ann, I agree with you to a point, I still, perhaps naively, believe that the people still hold the trump card. Motivating them enough to actually use it is a different story. A positive on target message can do that if properly done which means it has to remain an on-going effort. To do something today, without maintaining an on-going presence will only delay things while the opposition works to strengthen their own message and develop a means to disprove ours.

For them its a war, where I'm afraid we are just preparing for a battle.

[KG Gary]

Just a quick query, sorry for the intrusion....

Is the idea to protect adult webmasters from all political anti-porn garbage to protect the industry?
Or is it to specifically to protect us from the Bush-led anti-porn garbage?
Or is the idea to use adult webmasters as a political influence to get Bush out?
Or all of the above?
Or none of the above?

[guestcam]

Does anyone ever wonder if the idiots in Washington watch these boards?
good. Maybe they will rethink thier attacking us then.

If We get OUR message out into the main stream media then that gop goldmine of religious right votes aint gonna be worth shit.

One religious zelot with a long beard in a long robe standing atop of rooftop to rally the crowd to find and punish those people who offend god and who offend all those good people who have god in their lives.

Another religious zelot, hair neatly trimmed, in a brooks brothers suit standing at the podium to rally the crowd to find and punish those people who offend god and who offend all those good people who have god in their lives.

Do good people tolerate either?

If the GOP is reading this: READ AND LEARN - Actual facts and real truth is on OUR side, not yours.

Exposing The real truth on why I do what I do and why YOU DO what you do, will keep me free and you indicted!

C

[guestcam]

Just a quick query, sorry for the intrusion....

Is the idea to protect adult webmasters from all political anti-porn garbage to protect the industry?
Or is it to specifically to protect us from the Bush-led anti-porn garbage?
Or is the idea to use adult webmasters as a political influence to get Bush out?
Or all of the above?
Or none of the above?
well the 'bush-lead' (there's two words that dont belong together) threat is the immediate thread. Which would be more accurately labeled the right wing religious GOP threat.

Bush isnt the threat. his masters behind the curtain are.

IMHO the message, the BRANDING if you will, we need to work on every fucking day, is "Its not a war on porn, its a war on freespeech. It ALWAYS HAS BEEN."

No One in Amerrica should be imprissioned for offending someone else. EVER. That should NEVER happen no matter the topic of what is causing the offense.

[Allfetish]

I was thinking about this COPA thing
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?t=28112


how many of you would run a 4 or 5 lines of text on your bigger sites and hubs

that might be linked to a artice with some facts on some page

I would be happy to do what I can as well. I would prefer that it focuses only on the porn issue itself and avoids attacking any one politician or party however. I'm not a Bush fan myself, but I sense that there will be more support if it sticks to the issues themselves. I also sense that many of our customers are republicans, believe it or not!! :lol:

[Mattinblack]

I think I still have bushporn.com :)

Alex

Maybe you should devote that site to faked pictures of george W in various pornographic poses. Or maybe all politicians? Heres a softcore one of tony blair to start with... lol

[Mattinblack]

The message I want to send to my surfers is STOP BEING FUCKING SILENT CUZ AFTER THEY JAIL ALL THE WEBMASTERS THE SURFERS ARE NEXT.

Right on. Here in the UK though they are doing it ass about face (as usual) and jailing the surfers first. A number of people who have been on certain 'Russian Teens' sites after clicking on blind links have been found with CP images in their browser cache and prosecuted, even after pointing out to the court that there was no way of knowing that the link in question would take them to such images (in one case a page of five hundred 100 pixel square thumbnails.. shock headlines '500 CP images found on ....'). Thats one case I believe where the relevant webmasters should have been jailed but its easier for the UK authorities to 'send the right message' by jailing the surfers who they already have than some dodgy ped0 Mafiosi Boss in the Ukraine. This affects all of us because suddenly people wont click on any links to teen sites just in case ... no wonder mature content is so popular now!

Over here we dont have Bush but we have CAP (Christians against Porn), these are the bunch that go round reporting escort homepages with nudity that are found on non-adult servers (such as the free space on the Girls ISP site) and trying to get sex shops closed.

[guestcam]

Over here we dont have Bush but we have CAP (Christians against Porn), these are the bunch that go round reporting escort homepages with nudity that are found on non-adult servers (such as the free space on the Girls ISP site) and trying to get sex shops closed.

I think the old romans had it right - persecute the christians. Holy fuck batman! You'd need Austrialia to hold all the people in the history of ONLY the last century of those who killed in the name of Christ.

You can use a Starbucks coffee shop to hold those who killed in the name of Satan.

There outta be a law - No Christian may say, look at, or show interest in ANYTHING PORN related until two years of working with the homeless has occurred. And in that time period they may not speak of the topic of porn or obscenity ever.

I say NOT ONE so called christian (and I am born, baptised and raised Roman Catholic) who current works to 'stop porn' could pass that test.

Image a period of two years where the christian HAD to do nothing BUT HELP. No comdemnation allowed at all during that period of time. The graduation rate for that rule would be 1 or 2 percent.

fucking christians.........what a bunch of sleazy scum bags.....if there really WAS A GOD.........dont you think the christians and the islamics would be the first to burst into flames?

ok, back to my italian sub and football........

[Halfdeck]

Hey hey, stay on topic...

Our goal isn't to whine about Christians and the government. If all you want to do is build a blog to whine to surfers about how much Christians and Republicans suck, count me out.

You don't win a boxing match by whining about how hard the other guy is pounding you in the face. You win by pounding the other guy to the ground.

[MeatPounder]

You don't win a boxing match by whining about how hard the other guy is pounding you in the face. You win by pounding the other guy to the ground.
It's a tough fight but we will win in the end!

And Here is the Proof! (http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=free+speech+&word2=Department+of+Justice)






.

[MadMax]

It's a tough fight but we will win in the end!

And Here is the Proof! (http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=free+speech+&word2=Department+of+Justice)
.

try this one :D

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=sex&word2=christ

[Halfdeck]

How about this? :D

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=free+porn+for+all&word2=protect+children+from+porn

[Mr. Blue]

This thread seems to be losing its focus and it's unfortunate that it is because something positive can come out of it. What we want is a professional statement written about the facts of what's going on, devoid of rabble rousing, devoid of personal attacks on any political entity or institution, and creating that "positive" message. If we agree that this is our goal / objective, what's the next step?

[MadMax]

This thread seems to be losing its focus and it's unfortunate that it is because something positive can come out of it. What we want is a professional statement written about the facts of what's going on, devoid of rabble rousing, devoid of personal attacks on any political entity or institution, and creating that "positive" message. If we agree that this is our goal / objective, what's the next step?

That's the page I'm on. Let's put together an outline and get it written.

[Bill]

It would actually be a pretty challenging writing job.

You would want your message to be boiled down to about 3 statements, short and emotionally vivid. Easy to remember and repeat ideas, simple and direct, that could be passed around to counter the sound bytes that big media has perfected.

So, the core should be short, one fairly short page, that you could surround with supporting pages of explanation. The core should be as self explanatory as possible, tho, and make perfect sense without any of the additional writing.

Ideally, it should be newsworthy, good enough to stand being shown on CBS, CNN, and FOX.

[guestcam]

Hey hey, stay on topic...

Our goal isn't to whine about Christians and the government. If all you want to do is build a blog to whine to surfers about how much Christians and Republicans suck, count me out.

You don't win a boxing match by whining about how hard the other guy is pounding you in the face. You win by pounding the other guy to the ground.
no, you're right. I dont advocate condeming christians and the gop. Thats just me venting here on the gg forums.

[Mattinblack]

I would say the next step is to start a new thread where people can post statements they have written, close it after 4-5 days and then vote for which one we feel is best to represent what we are trying to say via a poll.

[walrus]

That's the page I'm on. Let's put together an outline and get it written.Yep, I think one of the first points we need to address is that fact that the term "child pornography" has come to be an acceptable term for describing either children being taken advantage of and children viewing porn. By lumping them together it gives the public a warped view of what's going on.

[Mattinblack]

Ok since nobody is sticking their heads above the battlements here is my draft:

Coalition of Adult Web Content Publishers

We would like to make the following statements to those who would seek to outlaw all pornography on the world wide web.

1. Without exception every responsible Adult Webmaster despises Ch1ld P0rn0r4phy and will report such activities to the authorities whenever found. It must be realised that some models who are in fact in their 20's may appear far younger.

2. It is human nature to want to engage in sexual activity. For some individuals solo sexual activity is the only sexual release they have, for varying reasons not limited to but including disability, religious convictions (prohibiting extra marital sex), and appearance.

3. There are a small number of (mostly Eastern Bloc) webmasters who are tarnishing the image of the industry as a whole by exploiting children. Do we see a call for Banks to be abolished because they hold funds for Terrorists? Some of the proposed actions are on this scale.

4. The industry employs many thousands of people in the USA alone and many tens of thousands worldwide. Shutting this industry down would have an economic impact similar to closing all the car plants in the US and relocating them in Russia.

5. It is every human beings right to make their own mind up about what they will and will not do in life. For some people pornography is abhorrant and for some people pornography is a necessity. It is pointless for the state to 'nanny' the adults within its borders. Any ban simply forces the activity to go underground and keeps the profits in the hands of those unscrupulous people who caused the problem in the first place. Did we learn nothing from the Prohibition of Alchohol?

[guestcam]

Yep, I think one of the first points we need to address is that fact that the term "child pornography" has come to be an acceptable term for describing either children being taken advantage of and children viewing porn. By lumping them together it gives the public a warped view of what's going on.
actually we do not want to cloud the main issue with that topic.

we as an industry want NO PART of trying to split hairs on what CP term means what. it looks WAY too much like some sort of justication.

the only position we should take on CP is 'we will do all we can to assist any government agency in the pursuit of those criminals engaging in the production and distribution of CP'

Yeah CP is its whole own top level domain of debate. You make that a main point of our statement and it will just grab all the mass media's attention.

[guestcam]

oh and I have my statement in the making..........it was getting to 3am last night and I didnt want to START the writing then..........stay tuned.

[DJilla]

I wanted to respond to this post a few days ago when I first read it but I was on the run and had to go. If I may, I’d like to interject a whole new line of attack here for everyone to consider. This is actually a subset of thinking that I was going to approach FSC with in an offer to create/maintain a page of a similar purpose as is being talked about here.

IMHO (with some experience from the PR field) though the goals stated are lofty, the approach is all wrong! We must step outside of ourselves as adult WM’s and the concerns we have and think about the goals AND audience you are trying to reach.

The goals: reduce threat from government and private censorship, mainstream hostility to perceived attacks of CP upon the unwary, religious fanatics, improve image as hardworking, productive members of society, reduce hostility from financial organizations, increase confidence that we as an industry are responsible and are capable/willing of self policing or regulation.

Audience: mainstream citizenry and politicians over disparate time zones and cultures.

OK! Unfortunately, to be successful you have to adopt the same tried and true methods that the pros do (see decades old classic and first year student required reading: “The Hidden Persuaders” Vance Packard) which may at first glance seem shady or duplicitous.

What I mean is that a certain amount of “spin” and disinformation techniques have to be mixed with the message you are trying to deliver. In other words you can’t just preach to the choir and achieve any meaningful effect. This is because the choir already agrees with you and many avid porn surfers will never admit to it, and never admit to supporting it under any circumstances for fear (which propels a great deal of humanity towards one action or another) of rejection from their peers. Therefore they will never engage in activity that will assist in achieving the desired outcome stated in goals. Then you have the people who don’t like porn period and will never accept any message at the outset discounting it immediately because of its source.

What one must do is to attach the desired goals to a message that is acceptable to a widespread audience to consider both in content and from source. So, getting to the bottom line, that would mean wrapping the porn message within a tasty cover. I would suggest that this cover should be couched in two ways.

First: Censorship as a topic in and of itself. Political, literature, especially the arts, etc. Any improvement in atmosphere surrounding these topics will ipso facto improve the porn picture. Porn is easily characterized as the low hanging fruit which needs the greatest protection. Showing how porn is the place of choice for knee jerk reactions to an inevitable slippery slope that leads to onerous government efforts to controlling individual choices in ones general life is a message that “average people” can grasp without wrestling with moral choice. I would be focusing on all types of historical censorship and the fiascos they have lead to (the earth is flat, scientific knowledge, communism, etc., etc.)

Second: Fear of government. It’s a relatively easy target to pick on people’s natural fear of encroaching government control.

Third: Have to have the ever present “Code Of Ethics”

Fourth: Have to endorse strict adherence to every technical ability (rating systems, IE blocking, whatever) available to restrict porn from minors with in-depth explanations and links to plenty of tools available as a parental resource.

Fifth: Constantly reference that greater technical solutions are just around the corner and the matter will solve itself.

Sixth: Create an image of the perfect technical solution (which does not now exist) and endorse that this solution be adopted as quickly as possible.

Seventh: As Mattinblack referenced, a focus on the economic numbers and just how large they are. Billions are brought in by mainstream hotel chains and cable operators. Fortune five hundred companies are heavily profiting from porn. Put the heat on them by showing how widespread and how much money is involved. Take the focus off of the internet and put it on cable and publicly traded companies. Lessen the impact of internet porn by comparing it to the same concerns that existed 10, 20, 30 years ago. The world didn’t end then and won’t end now.

IMHO

[walrus]

actually we do not want to cloud the main issue with that topic.

we as an industry want NO PART of trying to split hairs on what CP term means what. it looks WAY too much like some sort of justication.

the only position we should take on CP is 'we will do all we can to assist any government agency in the pursuit of those criminals engaging in the production and distribution of CP'

Yeah CP is its whole own top level domain of debate. You make that a main point of our statement and it will just grab all the mass media's attention.I dont think it is splitting hairs at all and is central to the debate. A gentleman I know and have a lot of respect for was not opposed to the google thing because he thought they were talking about cp. When explained the other way around...it changed his mind completely.

IMHO, it is central to everything. because as long as the opposition can tie our legitamte business to an illegal one, in the mind of the masses, they will always find support by simply wrapping in the cloak of the illegal one. To ignore and not address it gains very little because while you may sway people to our side, they wont know which side that is.

The GOP is very good at doing this and look for irregularities all you want in the last election but again IMHO their abilty to wrap Kerry into something he wasn't is largely what got "W" re-elected.

Basic NLP stuff, first start with something everyone can agree on and then lead them into morphing it into what you want them to believe.

[furrygirl]

There was a good little site run by Chi Chi LaRue before the 2004 election at ProtectOurPorn.com, but it's no longer online. It was a simple page about how if you wanted to keep your porn, you should vote for anybody but Bush, and linked to a few articles about the government's declared war on pornography.

I added it as a pop-up to my sites for a few days back then.

If someone is gong to re-do such a site, I'd recommend keeping it short and simple, just a non-pornograpic single index page with facts about the war on porn and some links to articles. I'd keep it credible, concise, clear, and free from long rants and spelling errors.

[furrygirl]

I've been repeatedly accused of being a wide-eyed feminazi nutcase, so hopefully this post isn't seen as more anti-man butch dykery from Furry Girl...

But, I can't help but notice that almost everyone who wants to be a part of this project is male.

Porn is generally attacked on two grounds:
- It's all CP, and makes people to r*pe kids
- It's all violent and degrading to women, and makes men r*pe women and beat their wives

If you're going to counter that, I suggest having some female voices as a part of any project. A random unsigned "in defense of porn" statement would most likely be read as the product of men trying to justify themselves. A well-written piece that includes sex-positive feminist perspectives, including headshots of the authors, would be better received by anyone, right or left. (Because, don't forget, the left probably hates porn more than the right, they just don't have the power to do anything about it. While the right focuses on children and decency, the left focuses on "women's rights".)

[DJilla]

How about this? :D

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=free+porn+for+all&word2=protect+children+from+porn

Cute link... that's a keeper!

[Toby]

Hmmmm, I find myself in complete agreement with all three posts made last night by furrygirl. It would seem that one or both of us are mellowing with age. :D

[furrygirl]

Hmmmm, I find myself in complete agreement with all three posts made last night by furrygirl. It would seem that one or both of us are mellowing with age. :DI assume you mean my other one about "teen" sites? Well, then, thank you, kindly.

And hopefully this thread won't get forgotten. It's a great project, and I'm happy to help and offer some pointers on a manifesto from a chick who's heavily into sex/porn-positive feminism.