An Open Thread To AVN & Internext... [Archive]

Greenguy

2005-12-05, 11:17 AM

I wanted to start up a legit & not-so-bashing thread where we can all express our issues with the way that the current AVN Internext shows are run/handled.

So let's get some questions posted & hopefully Far-L will have a rep from AVN on tomorrow night's Radio Show where we can get some answers.

No bashing - no rants - serious questions only |shake|

***

I'll start it off....

Why is this year's Internext running at the same time as the other AVN show?

I realize that it's usually before the other show & that the date of the New Year aren't helping things, but why not have the webmaster show after the AVN show? (Jan 9, 10 & 11)

RawAlex

2005-12-05, 12:49 PM

Dear AVN:

Webmasters are not poor. They are also not so stupid.

We don't really need to be in vegas during the busiest time of the year. You could probably get our rates a little lower if you ran the show over newyears. The prices for new years are lower. December and January are also the coldest months in Vegas, which means many of the attractions and such are NOT open.

We really don't need to be in Miami in August. It is a million degrees, 100% humidity, and it is summer pretty much every else in the northern hemisphere. It is plenty hot here in Montreal, so why go to the 7th inner ring of hell?

Quite simply, your event dates are all backwards... and they don't match up with the reality of our business.

My suggestion? Let's try Miami in March or April, and let's try vegas in September or October.

Those who are attending the show in Vegas this year are paying premium, top, highest possibly dollar for place that, 30 days later, would literally get on their knees and suck to get that many people into a hotel - and at about 1/4 of the price. That would be more than enough of a saving to pay a little bit more to be in Miami at a time of the year when it is truly worth going.

Jamming the January show up against the holidays and scheduling it based on CES is good for your retail trade (read raincoaters and droolers) who pay $25 at the door to come in and line up to SEE pornstars in person. It doesn't really help an industry function. It makes it harder to plan for a new years party, it makes it harder to justify taking time off at christmas (because then you are going to also take the first 10 days off of january to get the show done), and generally it gets in the way of real life.

Make it attractive for webmasters to attend, and they will attend. Make it attractive for webmasters to attend, and more sponsors will spend more money to get more exposure to those webmasters. Can you imagine a Vegas show with 10-15k attendance? I can.

Alex

emmanuelle

2005-12-05, 01:38 PM

Dear AVN

Why must I pay $125 to attend the AEE show as 'trade', where Joe Spanker can attend for $40? Since industry professionals are loathe to carry badges that say 'fan' on them, could you not institute some sort of screening process other than budget?

Could I maybe start receiving my AVN subscription again? It seems that you guys have some trouble finding me, but the people to whom you sell my mailing info don't seem to share those same problems. BTW- Why on earth is AVN Online available in corner stores? Do we really need to educate surfers how things work behind the scenes?

Do I need to be somebody special in order to participate in the AVN Awards? No, I am not an advertiser, but it would have been nice to have had one of my repeated requests for access to the nomination section responded to. As a result, my client's video could not be entered.

Did you miss my $4000 in Florida? That's what I had budgeted to bring myself, marketing manager and a model like in previous years. We had a delightful time spending the money on another opportunity that was better value for my business instead. Maybe next summer things will focus on things important to webmasters and we can all be friends again?

Tommy

2005-12-05, 03:07 PM

AVN is making truck loads of money on these shows and it seems like they really dont care or bother to check in to what the industry wants or needs

just what is most profitable for them

its to bad we cant organize our own shows

organized by REAL webmasters for webmasters

DangerDave

2005-12-05, 03:14 PM

I just wish they would put a fucking remove link in their goddamn emails!

DD

Greenguy

2005-12-05, 03:41 PM

I'm starting to think that everyone's a bit too jaded for my "No bashing - no rants - serious questions only" request :D

docholly

2005-12-05, 03:42 PM

beware the hijack:

its to bad we cant organize our own shows

organized by REAL webmasters for webmasters

We can!! and I think its something maybe we should look into for the future.. where the greatest goods for greatest dollars are spent.

Dear AVN:

I'd like to know why the expo passes are so bloody expensive. I attend between 50-75 trade shows per year and the most expensive one was 95.00 because I was booking it only 1 month in advance.

With the expense of traveling and staying here at PEAK season which Alex pointed out, this is just one more padded expense that is out of line with the logistics of the show.

Note to show producers: The Orleans has a huge conference facility, it's off the strip and the hotel and surrounding places *Palms, Rio, gold coast* could certainly handle the number of webmasters who are attending. If you MUST put the shows at the same time as CES/PPAI and AEE .. why not put us in our own area where we can do some business.

Jim

2005-12-05, 04:10 PM

I will save mine for tomorrow :)

emmanuelle

2005-12-05, 04:10 PM

If you MUST put the shows at the same time as CES/PPAI and AEE .. why not put us in our own area where we can do some business.

But then they wouldn't get all the spankers & wankers paying $200 for a pass to our show, play pimp for a day and load up on sponsor swag.

GonZo

2005-12-05, 04:37 PM

beware the hijack:

We can!! and I think its something maybe we should look into for the future.. where the greatest goods for greatest dollars are spent.

Dear AVN:

I'd like to know why the expo passes are so bloody expensive. I attend between 50-75 trade shows per year and the most expensive one was 95.00 because I was booking it only 1 month in advance.

With the expense of traveling and staying here at PEAK season which Alex pointed out, this is just one more padded expense that is out of line with the logistics of the show.

Note to show producers: The Orleans has a huge conference facility, it's off the strip and the hotel and surrounding places *Palms, Rio, gold coast* could certainly handle the number of webmasters who are attending. If you MUST put the shows at the same time as CES/PPAI and AEE .. why not put us in our own area where we can do some business.
I wish you fuckers would quit giving up the Orleans.
You know they wont have it there cuz its not where the cool kids stay. Which is why I am there.
GG I can answer your question pretty easily. They have that show at the same time because its in their best interest.
They dont give a fuck about the webmaster community except for twice a year.
Why do you think Aly left?

DangerDave

2005-12-05, 04:40 PM

I'm starting to think that everyone's a bit too jaded for my "No bashing - no rants - serious questions only" request :D:D That was me being calm and the reqest is deadly serious...

DD

Ramster

2005-12-05, 04:54 PM

Dear AVN

1 - Since you scheduled our webmaster show at the same time as the AVN and CES shows why couldn't you reserve a large number of rooms at a reduced rate? (Maybe even for those of us that return to these shows each year at least as a reward)

I booked in August 5 months in advance and am still paying $319 a night.

2 - Have you made more restaurants available for us to eat at? I'm sure with 3 shows going on it will be hours to get a seat in the restaraunts.

Since this isn't a rant thread I won't talk about that fact that I have to fly to Vegas a day early to be sure I get there on time and that I have to take the red eye out on Sunday night because EVERY other flight out is booked in the day thanks to the large amount of people there for all these shows. :(

RawAlex

2005-12-05, 05:02 PM

Tommy

2005-12-05, 05:19 PM

I'm starting to think that everyone's a bit too jaded for my "No bashing - no rants - serious questions only" request :D

No bashing - no rants
you didnt really mean that did ya ??

Ramster

2005-12-05, 07:21 PM

Ramster, don't forget that Sunday is in the top 5 for all time airport outbound traffic in a single day in Vegas. The CES show is ending, people have to get back to the office on Monday, and everyone goes out on Sunday. My advice? Check in EARLY... WAY EARLY.

Alex

Yeah no doubt. My flight was almost sold out so sleeping comfotably will be a bitch. I'll have to be drunk before I board so I'm good and tired. :D

The only good thing is it is a direct flight from Vegas to Montreal. Then a short layover and the 40 minute flight to Ottawa. Home by 10 am. :)

docholly

2005-12-05, 07:29 PM

I wish you fuckers would quit giving up the Orleans.
You know they wont have it there cuz its not where the cool kids stay. Which is why I am there.

hey!! Who you callling a "Fucker", Willis? I'm a FUCKEE.. dammit.. |loony|

seriously.. our part of the trade show needs to be at least somewhere joe schmodunky can't get into.. dammit.. |banghead|

Greenguy

2005-12-05, 09:44 PM

Far-L just emailed me & Farley from AVN should be on the show with him tomorrow night, so keep posting :)

GonZo

2005-12-05, 09:55 PM

Far-L just emailed me & Farley from AVN should be on the show with him tomorrow night, so keep posting :)
Since its a good old beatdown... lets fast forward to this summer and wind up more bitching....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10338589/

Linkster

2005-12-05, 10:51 PM

As long as the sponsors keep paying for booth space and advertising at this show there will be a profit for AVN - and they will not change a thing - it would be ridiculous for them to change.
Based on their rep who did show up on another board asking who was going - I see that 95% of the answers were sponsors - followed by a few psuedo-webmasters that are what I call hanger-ons. Its amazing that this info will go back to AVN and they will think everything is fine with that response.

Now the thought that AVN would really care about WMs and their input - why should they? They make the money they want - they get exactly the response they intended - no reason to change.

The changes can only occur if one of two things happen - first - they have to want to change (thats out)
second- the change is forced - and with the WM community that is not going to happen because everyone keeps feeding the money into them and they just keep taking it.

If AVN really wants to cater to WMs (which based on the feedback that has been posted and not acted on for the last three years indicates they dont)
then they will get a rep out into the WM community who can change things this year - not 5 years down the road. But all indications are that that is also never going to happen.

I personally have made suggestions to AVN reps for at least four years in person at shows, and every time the exact same answer is given - we will look into those ideas - and then 3 days after the show the ideas vanish into thin air.

This will be the last show for me(run by AVN) - the only reason I am still going this time is I cant get my money back.

Ramster

2005-12-06, 12:14 AM

Linkster
I agree with everything you said.

As you know I am more of a paysite owner now and if I was not I most likely would NOT attend. These shows surely have benefit me over the years from meeting other webmasters and making friends. Also from meeting guys who run TGPs that I submit to daily.

This show now caters to the programs and the whales so to speak.

I will be going to Phoenix and more smaller shows in the coming year. Miami? I doubt it very very very much. Unless it is inexpensive as I like treating the shows as a vacation too.

The good thing about AVN doing all this is the small shows in LA, Phoenix, San Diego or where ever will get more exposure and more real webmasters attending.

zoezane

2005-12-06, 10:31 AM

I have attended both conventions over the years and this one is interesting for sure. I read the posts and thought that organizing an show like AVN for Internet Cyber Starletts and web masters would be great. I know the porn stars will always be porn stars and I dipped into it with my safety in mind BUT my personal opinion that many Internet amateurs are Cyber Stars. Real amateurs real people. Many do not have an avenue to do traditionaal distribution. Hum? I have had fans complain about booking flights and myself I was so busy working on my site I just booked last night. I am in and will be to many of the parties but going a day early. Cyber the hubby will drive in and make it to the goti party. Ya it is all about the money with AVN/Internext.

Surfn

2005-12-06, 10:58 AM

Are you the same Zoe I had help me on SexySurfn TGP in the 90's?

Greenguy

2005-12-06, 11:27 AM

Please, let's keep it to questions & not rants.

It's gonna be really hard for me to ask questions to Farley tonight on the show based on some of these posts.

Far-L

2005-12-06, 01:59 PM

GonZo

2005-12-06, 02:18 PM

I am looking forward to this.

I have a question... How many people, besides those who have stated here otherwise, have actually talked directly to AVN about their issues and not just griped on a board about them?

Ill step up to that one Farrel.

I spent the better part of the first half of this year talking directly to Aly when she was with AVN concerning the Florida show.

Useless

2005-12-06, 03:26 PM

Chop Smith

2005-12-06, 03:41 PM

For some reason, folks are bad about wanting to visit me on Tuesday nights at 7PM. I'll shoot the sob that interrupts me tonight.

Good luck Greenguy and Jim with the interview. It is kind of Far-l and the AVN guy to take the time to visit with ya'll.

Far-L

2005-12-06, 04:31 PM

I was going to ask a question, but I just read that I'm not supposed to form an opinion unless I speak to AVN directly upon said opinion's conception.

Far-l, this is how webmasters communicate with each other. This is how we toss around ideas and opinions. If AVN is too big to read the boards, even if a thread is addressed directly to them - fuck 'em. Most of us really don't even care enough to contact AVN. Why? Because they don't seem to care about us. (and some of us are dead sexy) The same shit gets expressed for every show, yet nothing seems to change. I've never been to an AVN extravaganza. I consider attending each and every time, yet I've never been convinced that it's worth the investment.

They have made and effort to be on the boards. Even well liked people like Aly took regular bashings as a result. However, conversely, when webmasters have problems then the best place to start resolving them generally is off the boards.

Obviously, this is an issue that should be resolved publicly - but even still covering it on all the boards would be tough.

You have never even been to a show so I am not sure what basis you feel qualified to so vehemently criticize them. I still think that you are entitled to your point of view so if you feel like addressing your issues then come to the show tonight.

emmanuelle

2005-12-06, 04:31 PM

I think that a large number of the issues could be resolved by AVN responding to emails and phone calls when we do attempt to reach out for solutions.

Even well liked people like Aly took regular bashings as a result

Unfortunately this comes with the territory when one chooses to represent a company. I'm pretty sure that she knew of people's discontent before accepting the position and responsibility.

GonZo

2005-12-06, 04:42 PM

They have made and effort to be on the boards. Even well liked people like Aly took regular bashings as a result. However, conversely, when webmasters have problems then the best place to start resolving them generally is off the boards.

Obviously, this is an issue that should be resolved publicly - but even still covering it on all the boards would be tough.

You have never even been to a show so I am not sure what basis you feel qualified to so vehemently criticize them. I still think that you are entitled to your point of view so if you feel like addressing your issues then come to the show tonight.
I always said whatever they were paying Aly wasnt enough for the shit we were all giving her.

Looks like I was right too!

Rick has a find in her...shes one of the most professional people Ive ever encountered in this business. The way she handled herself during all of that was astounding and I'll never have a quarter of her patience and diplomacy skills.

On the other side of this issue I will have to say that some of the minor suggestions we had for the Florida show were implimented. So they are listening just not to the degree that we all would like for them too.

Ill have to say that no matter who puts on a show... AVN,Ynot,The Zoo or even Lightspeed... I have always been able to justify each and every trip I have taken.

In some instances it may be more difficult than others. I think success at a show is measured more by a person/company's skill with planning and execution of goals.

That being said...personally I expect Vegas to be my biggest show ever! In spite of the prices, crowds etc etc.

Everyone has known about the situation since August. What each of us has chosen to do about it will determine your amount of success.

RawAlex

2005-12-06, 04:45 PM

Far-L, I spent a fair bit of time with Aly at the last two conventions. At the end of the day, some of the things we talked about got resolved (like shipping badges head of time), but in the end, I came to understand that very little will change inside AVN without financial motive. That financial motive is not there at this point.

Alex

Useless

2005-12-06, 04:51 PM

You have never even been to a show so I am not sure what basis you feel qualified to so vehemently criticize them.I criticize them for all of the reasons that I have for not attending one of their shows. ;)

Since my question really doesn't imply anything negative about AVN or the show, I'm going to go ahead and toss it out there. I've asked this question mulitple times in the last 2-3 years and usually get the same reply from my fellow webmasters, but I'd love AVN's take on it.

Why SHOULD an eternally small webmaster like me attend Internext and will the reason(s) justify the expenditure?

Greenguy

2005-12-06, 04:59 PM

...Why SHOULD an eternally small webmaster like me attend Internext and will the reason(s) justify the expenditure?Best question asked in this thread |thumb

Far-L

2005-12-06, 05:04 PM

Best question asked in this thread |thumb

The answer though is painfully obvious - to network and learn from one's peers and leaders in the industry.

AVN has historically done the biggest shows that have attracted the widest range of people - that is their most apparent asset.

Toby

2005-12-06, 05:24 PM

The answer though is painfully obvious - to network and learn from one's peers and leaders in the industry...Agreed. However, it's the escalating costs of attending and the associated decline in the number of peers attending that is making many of us question if attending Internext is still cost effective.

Useless

2005-12-06, 05:28 PM

The answer though is painfully obvious - to network and learn from one's peers and leaders in the industry.So then it's not worth it? Ha! I kill me. :D

You were supposed to save the answer for the radio show. ;) Besides, when you toss in everyone elses' complaints and concerns, it really mucks up your answer. Some would say that networking and learning are difficult enterprises in the show's current state. Additionally, the cost factor is critical for a guy like me. I'm a hazardous combination of poor and cheap. I really want to go to Internext, I really do, but it's going to take a lot to make me think that it's worth shelling out the dough. (I also realize that it isn't AVN's job to convince me to go.)

Thank you for your responses, Far-l. I've heard good things about you and it is nice to see an obviously respected individual standing up for AVN.

Far-L

2005-12-06, 05:30 PM

Agreed. However, it's the escalating costs of attending and the associated decline in the number of peers attending that is making many of us question if attending Internext is still cost effective.

That is something well worth addressing.

Greenguy

2005-12-06, 05:33 PM

Trip for 2 to Vegas from Jan 4-8 (let's face it, most people travel with someone)

Airfare from Buffalo (good because it is far) direct flight on Southwest (cheap) arrive 1/4 & depart 1/8 - $490.00 (booked in September)

Hotel -
Cheapest room at The Venetian for 4 nights - $1116.00
Flamingo - $676.00 (but then throw in the time to walk to The Venetian or the money to take a cab there at least 4 times, but in all probability, 8 times)

Expo Passes - $340 (low end) to $650 (for everything)

Food? $100/day for 2 people is probably not that far fetched. So now your at $2000 to $2750 (give or take) before JoeBlow Webmaster leaves the house.

I'm gonna try to word this part so that I don't come off as some sort of rich asshole :D I know how much I make & I pretty much know how much people around me in my personal life make & when it comes to money, there's a factor of 10 involved. ($200 to me is $20 to them kinda thing) If you put that personal theory of mine into this equation so that I can grasp what it means to Joe Blow Webmasters, I'd have to actually consider spending $20,000-27,500 for 4 days in Vegas.

I make a good living, but that's fucking insane.

I'm really hoping that makes sense to some people :)

Far-L

2005-12-06, 05:33 PM

So then it's not worth it? Ha! I kill me. :D

You were supposed to save the answer for the radio show. ;) Besides, when you toss in everyone elses' complaints and concerns, it really mucks up your answer. Some would say that networking and learning are difficult enterprises in the show's current state. Additionally, the cost factor is critical for a guy like me. I'm a hazardous combination of poor and cheap. I really want to go to Internext, I really do, but it's going to take a lot to make me think that it's worth shelling out the dough. (I also realize that it isn't AVN's job to convince me to go.)

Thank you for your responses, Far-l. I've heard good things about you and it is nice to see an obviously respected individual standing up for AVN.

Thanks - I agree with you that figuring out a cost so that even the lower income members can attend is important.

Please bear in mind that I did ask for a discount arrangement for amateurs and they went out of their way to accomodate the request.

I have not always had a rosy relationship with AVN - but I can go into that on the show...

DangerDave

2005-12-06, 05:47 PM

Why SHOULD an eternally small webmaster like me attend Internext and will the reason(s) justify the expenditure?
I'd have to actually consider spending $20,000-27,500 for 4 days in Vegas.
Especially when success is achievable without ever attending Internext

DD

Chop Smith

2005-12-06, 06:12 PM

Especially when success is achievable without ever attending Internext
This is very true.

The best money I ever sent in this business was the trip to Surfn and Dr B's first Chicago meeting. Small enough to remember who you met.

Right after then carried a shit load of shirts and hauled ass to Vegas. I spend a couple grand to go to Vegas specifically to meet some GG&J board members. Never regretted the cost of the trip because doors started opening for me. I am not that successful but the Chicago and Vegas trips sure moved me closer to my goal.

However, small regional shows might be the place to do business and Vegas might be where you go to gamble

Greenguy

2005-12-06, 06:32 PM

Live Half Assed Webmaster Radio Tonight @ 8 PM EST

Timely Topic: Far-L From HomeGrown (http://www.homegrowncash.com/) & Farley From AVN (http://www.avnonline.com/) Talking About Internext

Listen LIVE on the Greenguy & Jim Radio Network!
Just Click Here (http://www.greenguysboard.com/radio.pls) (or Copy & Paste this URL - http://radio.greenguysboard.com:8000/ggaj - into your media player)

Chat LIVE with us in the Greenguy & Jim Chat Room (http://www.greenguysboard.com/irc/)
To connect using IRC:
irc.greenguysboard.com
#greenguyandjim
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Feed will be up at 7 (30 min from now) & show will start at 8 (90 min from now)

Surfn

2005-12-06, 06:34 PM

Thanks Chop I know that was my goal. Make everyone comfortable and do some bidness |bananna|

Look for an announcement from me on or about January 15th for a spring gathering :)

docholly

2005-12-06, 07:19 PM

The answer though is painfully obvious - to network and learn from one's peers and leaders in the industry.

Especially when success is achievable without ever attending Internext

DD

I seem to recall one of the best networking experiences took place in a non descript house in Greenwood..

and in attending last year, I did more business outside of convention than inside.. which could be replicated using the aforementioned camhouse and backyard..

*flashing eyes at Far-L*..

Linkster

2005-12-06, 07:37 PM

Far-L - you know I respect you and always have, that said I know that your view on this is based on your niche and "thrust" of business with the cross-jumping into the AEE and other opportunites that are provided with the current show format - it makes sense for you to fully support the show the way it is developing - heck I sure would. there are two points that I always have stinging in the back of my mind though - the first being the "deals" that you are able to make for your amateurs - which although I fully respect you for being able to do so - kind of grates on quite a few amateur site owners that read this - I'm pretty sure they aren't going to post their thoughts, but it kind of stinks for them as they don't have the recognition or background to be able to negotiate anything with AVN. Again this is not to take anything away from you - it's just one symptom of a system that is broken.

Second - over the last 4 or 5 shows, I have seen and heard over and over on boards like this (and you know as well as I do that this is not the only board with threads like this), that there are a huge majority of webmasters that are the people trying to eek out a living just barely, who have no interest whatsoever in crossover to the video side of adult entertainment, who are the trench webmasters trying to find a way to network with their peers, but are flabbergasted by the prices, the locations and times that generate those prices, and the general apathetic responses by the creators of the event. These are the 80% WMs - the majority that cannot go to these shows because of the prices, that although they would love to network with their peers, are relagated to listening to the sponsors talk about the parties they went to, the 20% that can afford (most just barely) the cost of the show talk about the great networking that went on and (the worst of all) the total silence from AVN about any changes that might be made to give the "trench WMs" a chance to take part in their industries premier annual show.

Just my opinion again but its based on a hell of a lot of conversations with those "trench WMs"

Toby

2005-12-06, 09:29 PM

Wouldn't Internext be of more value to the sponsors and exhibitors if more "trench WM's", to borrow Linkster's term, were able to attend?

I saved all year to be able to go to Miami in August and I shared a room to cut that cost in half. The cost makes going to Vegas out of the question. I don't care about attending AEE or CES, and I'll wager most other "trench WM's" don't either.

I guess the bottom line is whether or not AVN wants Internext to remain to be a show for webmasters. If so, changes need to be made to control the costs at both shows. The first step is getting someone on staff, or as a consultant, that has been a webmaster, or "traffic guy", as Farley called us.

Given the current status quo, I don't think I'll be attending another Internext.

Just my 2¢ worth.

AVNFarley

2005-12-06, 11:15 PM

Greenguy and Jim,
Thanks so much for having me on today. I think I was able to shed some light on a number of questions you and your listeners (sorry emmanuelle) had. I'm happy to say 3 of your listeners have already reached out to me tonight. As I said on the show, I'll be happy to keep posting answers to any questions on this thread and I'll keep everyone up to date on Internext info.

Please email me at farley@avn.com
AIM= AVNFarley
AVN Contacts http://www.avnmedianetwork.com
Internext info- http://www.internext-expo.com
FREE AVN Online Subscription http://www.avnonline.com/subscribe
Send Press Releases to pr@avnonline.com
Watch the Internext Expo Live for 3 days at http://www.InternextLive.com
Industry News and Info http://www.AVNOnline.com

emmanuelle

2005-12-06, 11:31 PM

I think I was able to shed some light on a number of questions you and your surfers had.

So we're surfers now?

EmporerEJ

2005-12-06, 11:39 PM

I am looking forward to this.

I have a question... How many people, besides those who have stated here otherwise, have actually talked directly to AVN about their issues and not just griped on a board about them?

AVNOnline Management is QUITE aware of my position. I have also relayed that 99.9% of ALL opinions I've read on the various boards are very much along the lines of my opinion.

We have publicly stated that we are boycotting this year in Vegas because of the stupidity of scheduling.

EmporerEJ

2005-12-06, 11:41 PM

docholly

2005-12-06, 11:44 PM

I'm happy to say 3 of your listeners have already reached out to me tonight.

maybe they were surfing listeners..

just for the record (i'm so anal i had to go count) i attended 92 trade shows and expos this year.

Greenguy

2005-12-06, 11:58 PM

emmanuelle - I'm sure he meant "board surfers" :)

EmporerEJ - all the archives from our shows are posted here:
http://www.greenguysboard.com/radio.html

docholly - sorry for misquoting you - I thought I read 22 someplace :(

Far-L

2005-12-06, 11:58 PM

So we're surfers now?

You must be a webmaster because surfers bitch less...

|smooch|

Far-L

2005-12-07, 12:01 AM

AVNOnline Management is QUITE aware of my position. I have also relayed that 99.9% of ALL opinions I've read on the various boards are very much along the lines of my opinion.

We have publicly stated that we are boycotting this year in Vegas because of the stupidity of scheduling.

Great - less competition for fellow media whores like me!

AVNFarley

2005-12-07, 12:06 AM

AVNOnline Management is QUITE aware of my position. I have also relayed that 99.9% of ALL opinions I've read on the various boards are very much along the lines of my opinion.

We have publicly stated that we are boycotting this year in Vegas because of the stupidity of scheduling.

I'd like to be personally made aware of your position. Please contact me if you'd like to discuss.
Thanks
Farley

farley@avn.com
AIM AVNFarley
818-718-5788

docholly

2005-12-07, 12:29 AM

docholly - sorry for misquoting you - I thought I read 22 someplace :(

GG you didn't.. i probably thought i did ..but i am anal *that's about the only place i'm anal*.. and had to go look.. lmao.. |thumb

furrygirl

2005-12-07, 05:43 AM

there are two points that I always have stinging in the back of my mind though - the first being the "deals" that you are able to make for your amateurs - which although I fully respect you for being able to do so - kind of grates on quite a few amateur site owners that read this - I'm pretty sure they aren't going to post their thoughts, but it kind of stinks for them as they don't have the recognition or background to be able to negotiate anything with AVN. Again this is not to take anything away from you - it's just one symptom of a system that is broken.As an amateur site webmaster, I thought I'd reply.

I actually take no offense to AVN not trying to work around me. I don't expect to have the clout of a top adult company, that's silly.

It's my decision to spend the $2500 or so for the experience, or stay at home and read webmaster board archives for a week, for free, in my pajamas. Or it could be my decision to be pro-active and positive and organize a local adult webmaster gathering in my own city that best suits the needs of that group.

I just don't feel conned or ignored, although OF COURSE I'd like it to cost me less. And OF COURSE I'd like it if more people attended, but you can't put on a large-scale business event that is cheap enough for *anyone*.

Seriously, how inexpensive does it have to be to be inclusive of the tiniest "webmasters in the trenches"? $1000 for the whole trip? $500? That's where regional conventions and local webmaster hangouts come in handy, in my mind.

If I wanted to bitch about other businesses not listening to my needs, I'm more inclined to be pissed off that credit card companies charge us exorbitant fees for processing because they encourage customers commit fraud against adult sites. :)

Jim

2005-12-07, 07:35 AM

EmporerEJ

2005-12-07, 02:43 PM

Great - less competition for fellow media whores like me!

:-)

Far-L I'll never be as big a whore as you man...
Only man I know that can "entertain visitors," shoot content for the live stream, Get Blown by a cute chic, be interviewed by a british babe for MSNBC, and at the same time, maintain his erection and control his ejaculation time.

You'll always be my hero!

|bow|

EmporerEJ

2005-12-07, 02:44 PM

I'd like to be personally made aware of your position. Please contact me if you'd like to discuss.
Thanks
Farley

farley@avn.com
AIM AVNFarley
818-718-5788

I'll be happy to forward my conversations with Kat (With her permission of course)

EmporerEJ

2005-12-07, 03:11 PM

Webmasters truly are the Red Headed Stepchildren of AVN. As Farly said last night, they make their money from the Video part of the business and the magazine.

Far-l, I understand why you would defend AVN. I'm sure they help your business out quite a bit with the Video end. But, they really don't do anything for the average webmasters. Farly said that the magazine was what they gave back. But, come on, if that is all AVN gives back, that is kind of lame.

As I said, with Farly being here, we have a start. But AVN needs to know who the webmasters are.

Jim-
I'm concerned that something is getting missed here in this conversation. There is a very clear distinction between "AVN" and "AVNOnline" in my mind.

Sure they are all part of Teddy Communications, and yes, they are the same company. But within the company, it's always been my impression that AVN was the top banana, and AVNOnline is the bastard child. (MY personal exposure impression.)
webmasters, being the "offspring" as it were, of AVNOnline, are regarded by "corporate management" as just that.
This may be a result of how AVNOnline came into existence. Many newbies here will not remember that AVNOnline magazine was a "Purchased Publication" by AVN. AVN, being the original magazine founded right here in the Commonwealth of PA by a video store owner.

They have separate personnel, editing staff etc. And while I may be biased, I've always felt AVNOnline was a MUCH better magazine. Better writers, better editing, nicer people, and all around much more "on the ball." (No pun intended)
:D

But this show schedule was just a really stupid idea all around and the person that said it would be a good idea should be taken out back and beaten severely.

Jim

2005-12-07, 03:24 PM

Jim-
I'm concerned that something is getting missed here in this conversation. There is a very clear distinction between "AVN" and "AVNOnline" in my mind.

Sure they are all part of Teddy Communications, and yes, they are the same company. But within the company, it's always been my impression that AVN was the top banana, and AVNOnline is the bastard child. (MY personal exposure impression.)
webmasters, being the "offspring" as it were, of AVNOnline, are regarded by "corporate management" as just that.
This may be a result of how AVNOnline came into existence. Many newbies here will not remember that AVNOnline magazine was a "Purchased Publication" by AVN. AVN, being the original magazine founded right here in the Commonwealth of PA by a video store owner.

They have separate personnel, editing staff etc. And while I may be biased, I've always felt AVNOnline was a MUCH better magazine. Better writers, better editing, nicer people, and all around much more "on the ball." (No pun intended)
:D

But this show schedule was just a really stupid idea all around and the person that said it would be a good idea should be taken out back and beaten severely.
So tell me, which do you find more informative as a magazine for webmasters? AVNOnline, Xbiz World or Klixxx?

RawAlex

2005-12-07, 03:47 PM

I also want to add this:

Reduced rate badges based on the type of site you run or the amount of yourself you put on the net seems a little bit weird to me. Is my reward for keeping my clothes on (a good thing, trust me) to pay double what other people pay for the same thing?

Is this a question of Homegrown paying the other half, or is AVN giving away deals?

Is there any sane reason why badges are so expensive?

Alex

Greenguy

2005-12-07, 03:53 PM

Alex - I don't think we got a clear answer to that, which I know I asked (why pay $170 to have people spam us in person - $250 to hear seminars from people that are probably there to spam us as well since they are not really being paid)

I think we did get the "it is what you make of it" reply, but the badge (seminars or not) has much less value than it did in 2000.

I will say this & I looked it up after the show last night - the rates for The Venetian are $20/night more than last year, which considering it's the 3 conventions at the same time, is not that bad of a mark up (and badge costs are the same)

Jim

2005-12-07, 04:07 PM

Is there any sane reason why badges are so expensive?

Alex
The answer is simple math. They have to make a certain amount at each show. As fewer and fewer webmasters and sponsors show up, prices go up. If the attendance keeps going the direction that it is going, badges will be a grand in a few years :)

Greenguy

2005-12-07, 04:16 PM

RawAlex

2005-12-07, 04:19 PM

GG, the rates for the hotel were like that only until they sold out, and that was a long, long time ago. Most people are paying significantly more than last year, especially those who would normally stay at secondary hotels. What finally decided it for me not to go was when I found places like Imperial Palace and Harrahs at more than $200 a night - 60 and 90 days before the event. If you did that same event 2 weeks later, we would be looking at something like $39 a night.

Jim, bad math. In making the badges more and more expensive, they in turn make it less and less attractive for sponsors and people planning booths to be on the show floor to start with. If there are less people to market to, the value of marketting goes down. Plus, you need less sales people, less hangers on, and less support staff. Why send 10 people to a show when 2 will do?

You have to have people to market to, or there is no point. At $250 for a badge, they are cutting their own legs off in the long run.

Alex

Greenguy

2005-12-07, 04:22 PM

You act like it's AVN's fault that you didn't plan ahead & book early :D

I of course didn't factor that in & just went off the emails I got from Rose for last year & this year (which I usually just glance at & then delete to the trash folder since I book this stuff myself so I can get comped)

SirMoby

2005-12-07, 04:36 PM

The question has been asked in this thread but I don't see any responce to it at all.

"Why not change the date of the Vegas and Miami shows"?

The only reason I'm going to Vegas this year is to introduce my wife to some people. If the show runs into booking problems next year I'm not going. Last year the show floor was way small and people had to wait for hours to get badges. It was simply wrong.

In 2006 I have budget for 4 shows and I'll take my wife to Vegas. If the dates don't change I'll go to 4 shows in 2007 and none of them will be AVN. If Dr. B, Tommy or GG have a get together I'll be there but Vegas is just getting silly.

Jim

2005-12-07, 04:37 PM

Jim, bad math. In making the badges more and more expensive, they in turn make it less and less attractive for sponsors and people planning booths to be on the show floor to start with. If there are less people to market to, the value of marketting goes down. Plus, you need less sales people, less hangers on, and less support staff. Why send 10 people to a show when 2 will do?

You have to have people to market to, or there is no point. At $250 for a badge, they are cutting their own legs off in the long run.

Alex
You are preaching to the choir, my friend. That seems to be the math they are using. Better math would be reasonable hotel rates + reasonable badge prices = more attendees.

But, Greenie and I were talking earlier. The money doesn't affect me at all. I have the MGM wanting to get their money back from me and for the past several years they have offered a free flight and free room. In this business, I like the business. I don't care for the content part. So, unless, we turn back time to the good old days of sitting in a room smoking cigars talking business without strippers, I won't be attending any of these events.

Jim

2005-12-07, 04:39 PM

And get rid of the damn strippers walking around with the scanners on the floor...I forgot that part :)

Greenguy

2005-12-07, 04:41 PM

The question has been asked in this thread but I don't see any responce to it at all.

"Why not change the date of the Vegas and Miami shows"?...We got a lot of answers to that on the show - Vegas is good for AVN because of the other show, Miami in August is dirt cheap & the don't want to move to another month because they'd interfere with the other conventions (San Diego, Phoenix, etc)

Greenguy

2005-12-07, 04:43 PM

....So, unless, we turn back time to the good old days of sitting in a room smoking cigars talking business without strippers, I won't be attending any of these events.5000 people in a suite calmy smoking cigars & chatting while sipping on Brandy?

We did what you're saying in Miami...remember? :D

And get rid of the damn strippers walking around with the scanners on the floor...I forgot that part :)Didn't Aly tell us to just use a Sharpie on the bar code?

EmporerEJ

2005-12-07, 04:43 PM

[QUOTE=Greenguy]
EmporerEJ - all the archives from our shows are posted here:
http://www.greenguysboard.com/radio.html
QUOTE]

OUTSTANDING!
I shall now be a "regular" listener, since I can download this to my personal listening device and avoid some more of "real life" by listening instead!

There's enough listening in there to last me quite sometime

Greenguy

2005-12-07, 04:45 PM

EmporerEJ (and everyone else) My apologies for the recording of last night's show - for some reason, about 20 minutes into it, it stop recording one channel from the mixer, which is partly why the last hour sounds like Jim & I are yelling & it's hard to hear Farley & Far-L :(

Greenguy

2005-12-07, 04:45 PM

...and last night's is the only one really worth listening to :D

EmporerEJ

2005-12-07, 04:48 PM

So tell me, which do you find more informative as a magazine for webmasters? AVNOnline, Xbiz World or Klixxx?

Hmmmm...hard to say.
I think it's more of a bit here, bit there?
They each have great contributions, and I read them all religiously.

EmporerEJ

2005-12-07, 04:52 PM

We got a lot of answers to that on the show - Vegas is good for AVN because of the other show, Miami in August is dirt cheap & the don't want to move to another month because they'd interfere with the other conventions (San Diego, Phoenix, etc)

DIRT CHEAP?
Wow, I'm coming to work for you.
Us "Po' bidness men" don't see those rates as "dirt cheap."

EmporerEJ

2005-12-07, 04:55 PM

...and last night's is the only one really worth listening to :D

Sure sure....the one show I REALLY want to listen to, and you muck it up...

Greenguy...........you're FIRED!

(Get yer damn suitcase, and go down the elevator to the waiting cab)

Greenguy

2005-12-07, 05:07 PM

DIRT CHEAP?
Wow, I'm coming to work for you.
Us "Po' bidness men" don't see those rates as "dirt cheap."Can you think of a cheaper location than Miami in August at the beginning of the Hurricane season?

And it was brought up that it's not an easy task to find a place for 5000 pornographers to hang out for 4 days, so the Westin can say to AVN that they'll let us take over, as long as it's in August & they can charge their own rates since they're probably not that busy & the rates justify allowing us "porn" people.

I suggested that AVN just have a convention at some hall or convention center & let us all find our own hotels, but they said that people like being able to bump into each other in the hotel & we're all together so we don't have to worry about offending people, which contradicts what happens in Vegas, since people are staying at 30 different hotels :D

I could give 2 shits if I even see a nipple in Vegas, but AVN does want people to see nipples & tits & twinks in tight shorts, so we're back to the "Internext is not for us" scenario.

Far-L

2005-12-07, 05:49 PM

Can you think of a cheaper location than Miami in August at the beginning of the Hurricane season?

And it was brought up that it's not an easy task to find a place for 5000 pornographers to hang out for 4 days, so the Westin can say to AVN that they'll let us take over, as long as it's in August & they can charge their own rates since they're probably not that busy & the rates justify allowing us "porn" people.

I suggested that AVN just have a convention at some hall or convention center & let us all find our own hotels, but they said that people like being able to bump into each other in the hotel & we're all together so we don't have to worry about offending people, which contradicts what happens in Vegas, since people are staying at 30 different hotels :D

I could give 2 shits if I even see a nipple in Vegas, but AVN does want people to see nipples & tits & twinks in tight shorts, so we're back to the "Internext is not for us" scenario.

No contradiction - Venetian sells out and people like to find cheaper rates at other hotels.

RawAlex

2005-12-07, 05:58 PM

The problem this year is that with the show running at the same time exact dates as CES, there are no cheap hotels in Vegas. The city is as packed as it ever gets, the lineups for meals, bars, taxis, limos, and just about everything else you could want will be insane, and you get to pay a premium price for all of it.

Move the Vegas show even 1 month later, and suddenly hotel prices would drop to reasonable, the city would be more relaxed, a little warmer, and nobody would be suffering for it.

Anyone else notice that shows like Pheonix, the Cybernet shows, and such have seen an upswing in the last couple of years?

Hmmm...

Alex

Ramster

2005-12-07, 06:08 PM

Greenguy
What Alex is saying is Harrahs and other hotels are usually way way cheaper. But because of the CES Harrahs is $500/night as are the other hotels. For people who stay at the Venetian and booked early there isn't much of a price difference, you are right there.

Just got these prices off of Hotels.com right now for Harrah's:
2 Jan - C$57.27
3 Jan - C$57.27
4 Jan - C$511.89
5 Jan - C$584.35
6 Jan - C$584.35
7 Jan - C$584.35
8 Jan - C$161.28
9 Jan - C$128.56

Sorry for the C, that is Canadian dollars. LOL The price jumps from $50 to $500, that's Fucking insane.

Oh, my first show in 2001 was $125 and it was that price for another year or 2.

emmanuelle

2005-12-07, 06:48 PM

Does anyone have the basic badge costs from 2004? 2003? 2002? 2001? 2000? 1999?

2000 was the 1st year at The Venetian - 1999 was the Monte Carlo if I remember correctly.

I lost all my old emails mid 2004 so I don;t have that info :(

2000 -2003 the early bird special was $125, and $150 afterwards.
In 2000 & 2001 there was actually a referral program on the badges, where we received $10 from AVN for every badge purchased through our code.

Greenguy

2005-12-07, 07:25 PM

No contradiction - Venetian sells out and people like to find cheaper rates at other hotels.
It sort of is - like Farley said last night when I asked him about just renting a hall/convention area & letting us find our own hotels, AVN's POV is that it's better if we are all in one place & have the hotel to ourselves & don't annoy anyone or bump into families & whatnot. If they truly felt that way, they'd look into getting a hotel in Vegas (probably off the strip) that was just us where what he said about Miami would hold true.

Point is that if it's ok for one, why not the other?

Alex & Ramster - I agree 100% that the rooms at any hotel near the conventions are priced really high, but like Farley said, more people wanted both AVN shows at the same time & the squeaky wheel gets the grease. We're all just stupid for not telling AVN that the way they were doing it was just fine by us & assuming that they'd realize that the hotel rates would go thru the roof (How long have the blocks Rose had been sold out?)

emmanuelle - thanks for the info $125 thru 2003, $170 for 2004 to 2006 is exactly what I was wondering (I have no point to asking, just wondering - LOL)

OH! It's a moot point, but a little birdy told me that there's no major convention in Vegas from Jan 8-11 & only 1 starts on the 11th way down at Mandalay Bay :D

SirMoby

2005-12-07, 07:38 PM

Miami in August is dirt cheap & the don't want to move to another month because they'd interfere with the other conventions (San Diego, Phoenix, etc)
Interesting. I remember the last time I went to Florida I gold Starwood and was quoted lower rates for the week before and the week after show. The rates weren't a lot lower but like $15 to $20.

Why is it higher during the days of the convention then it is on other days?

Can't we find another hotel some where else in the country in AUgust that would be cheaper?

Greenguy

2005-12-07, 08:04 PM

...Can't we find another hotel some where else in the country in AUgust that would be cheaper?We suggested that ANYPLACE in the continental US in August would be fine (high 70's, low 80's here in Buffalo at that time of the year - just a lovely time of the year) & Farley did say that he would have them look into the possibility of having the August show in a different city & he was taking notes.

Jim said Denver |thumb

RawAlex

2005-12-07, 08:24 PM

GG, I think Rose was sold out by early September... basically as soon as the Miami show was over, every found out how totally fucked January would be and started booking.

I called them and got the "only a few big suites left" deal... those were expensive at the time (but now not far out of line for a regular room at Harrahs).

Now, let me tell you a little bit about shows, and why there is the hotel room thing:

Basically, almost every hotel that has a convention center attached to it runs the convention center to put guests in the rooms. There is often a direct tie between number of square feet taken for the show and the minimum number of rooms that the show has to guarantee to get the space. Anything less than that number, and the show ends up paying for rooms that it cannot use out of pocket.

Go over that number, and there is a small travel agent style commission made.

If they didn't do that, the cost of the show floor space would likely be double or maybe even not made available.

By compressing the time frame of the shows together, AVN also benefits from having to deliver less rooms for less days (Instead of maybe 1000 room nights per day for 7 days, they maybe only have to deliver 1200 a night for 4 or 5 nights, example) because the space for both shows at the Sands is always tied up for the full 10 days or so (they cannot run another anything with a porn show at that end of the building).

AVN cuts their entire show time down by 3 days, saves themselves a butload of money, gets rid of the new years day load in costs, and the bottom line looks much better as a result. They can lose 10-20% attendance and still come out far, far ahead.

It is short sighted to the max... but it does improve the bottom line.

Alex

Chop Smith

2005-12-07, 08:42 PM

OH! It's a moot point, but a little birdy told me that there's no major convention in Vegas from Jan 8-11 & only 1 starts on the 11th way down at Mandalay Bay :D

Get that little birdy to find out what a block of rooms (500 or so) cost during that time frame. Looking at Harrah's, one would be saving $1K just on room cost alone

docholly

2005-12-07, 10:31 PM

I had a nice long post but changed my mind.. decided just to "tweet and chirp" on my own.

|deadhorse

Greenguy

2005-12-07, 11:17 PM

SirMoby

2005-12-08, 12:26 AM

We suggested that ANYPLACE in the continental US in August would be fine (high 70's, low 80's here in Buffalo at that time of the year - just a lovely time of the year) & Farley did say that he would have them look into the possibility of having the August show in a different city & he was taking notes.

Jim said Denver |thumb
While I'm for anything this side of the Mississippi if they're not tied to any city in particulr then they might want to consider something centrally located. Denver, Chicago, Indy, St. Louis, Kansas City ....

Of course Buffalo has some good webmasters there :)

walrus

2005-12-08, 01:52 AM

I can't fathom the $$$ being talked about here. As a comparison, I go to a trade show in Vegas every April, NAB, the #3 largest show of the year. Last year, my cost less money spent on drinking, whoring, and gambling...$1000. Thats for 4 nights of the show, networking on the exhibit floor, flight, etc. Now I didn't stay on the strip but the hotel I stayed in, the only thing between it and the convention center was a parking lot.

RawAlex

2005-12-08, 02:01 AM

Walrus, you hit the nail on the head. Done on almost any other week of the year (except pure holidays) there would be enough $50 hotel rooms to go aorund for everyone, enough cheap flights, and only normal size lines for stuff.

Vegas is a really nice place in the spring and fall (after the heat dies down).

Imagine being able to go to 2 or 3 shows for the price of one.

I am starting to see why people do the speciality shows and the regional events rather than doing the AVN shows...

Alex

Tommy

2005-12-08, 12:07 PM

The Venetian has to love having us, since if you booked thru Rose, you not getting that room comped at all, regardless of how much you gamble.

In 2004 I was at The Venetian for 7 days (6 nights) and I think I paid for 2 of them (since I am a degenerate gambler)

you would think with all the buisness they get from us at one time a discount would be in order

I am sure there is a huge discount but avn and rose tours pocket it

Surfn

2005-12-08, 12:10 PM

you would think with all the buisness they get from us at one time a discount would be in order

I am sure there is a huge discount but avn and rose tours pocket it
I have to agree otherwise we would see significantly lower prices by the hotels.

walrus

2005-12-08, 12:22 PM

you would think with all the buisness they get from us at one time a discount would be in order

I am sure there is a huge discount but avn and rose tours pocket it

I doubt it given that CES alone supports the largest convention in Vegas each year. Expanding the city's population by somewhere between 200 - 250K each year. The Venitian would be booked whether AVN/Internext was there or not. They have absolutely no incentive to offer big discounts.

walrus

2005-12-08, 12:44 PM

I doubt it given that CES alone supports the largest convention in Vegas each year. Expanding the city's population by somewhere between 200 - 250K each year. The Venitian would be booked whether AVN/Internext was there or not. They have absolutely no incentive to offer big discounts.

Correction it was only around 150k in attendance last year for CES

Linkster

2005-12-09, 06:40 AM

So now an example of why the prices are higher - I go to the mailbox yesterday and there is a shiny black envelope - legal sized - with a poster from Internext in it - with a caption at the bottom - make sure to register early by Dec 2 :)
Why waste the money we are giving for the passes to send out advertisements to drum up business - to people that have already registered???? And send it so that it arrives after the registration cutoff??? What a waste and just another example of the mis-management of the whole show

Surfn

2005-12-09, 06:51 AM

emmanuelle

2005-12-09, 09:44 AM

Goddammit

I just got 2 of those postcards in my mailbox. I really don't need the mailman knowing what I am involved in.

Jim

2005-12-09, 10:38 AM

I try to never spread rumors but, I heard the words, "15% kickback" being floated around.

Greenguy

2005-12-09, 12:00 PM

15% kickback from what?

Far-L

2005-12-09, 02:22 PM

Far-L

2005-12-09, 03:07 PM

Goddammit

I just got 2 of those postcards in my mailbox. I really don't need the mailman knowing what I am involved in.

So let me get this straight... first you are complaining not to get the magazines and now you are complaining that you got a plain black envelope...

emmanuelle

2005-12-09, 03:52 PM

So let me get this straight... first you are complaining not to get the magazines and now you are complaining that you got a plain black envelope...

er... please go and re read my post

I received 2 large postcards, not envelopes, with adult themed text all over them. I'm sure my postal carrier got a giggle out of it. Discretion is the issue here and a plain black envelope would have been lovely.

Since they can manage to find me to send their useless advertisements; I do wonder why they cannot locate me when it comes time to the magazine.

Linkster

2005-12-09, 04:07 PM

Far-L - I have no idea when it was mailed - I would assume some time in the last week based on when I normally get checks from the same location (Las Vegas)
The point was that they are wasting money by sending out something trying to get me to come to Internext - when I already signed up 3 months ago.

Note I did not say it was from AVN - I said it was from Internext - also known as Internext Show Management

Chop Smith

2005-12-09, 04:12 PM

er... please go and re read my post

I received 2 large postcards, not envelopes, with adult themed text all over them. I'm sure my postal carrier got a giggle out of it. Discretion is the issue here and a plain black envelope would have been lovely.

Since they can manage to find me to send their useless advertisements; I do wonder why they cannot locate me when it comes time to the magazine.

I know you was not born, but did you ever see the movie "The Postman Always Rings Twice"? :D

Jim

2005-12-09, 04:53 PM

15% kickback from what?
I don't spread rumors. But the words Travel, Hotel and Amenities were also mentioned.

Surfn

2005-12-09, 05:05 PM

RawAlex

2005-12-09, 05:57 PM

I received mine today. Postcard with adult words and such "the worlds largest adult digital media expo". Mailed from San Fran.

Not discrete, not subtle, and certainly not to the liking of everyone involved.

Just as importantly, considering this show is running the same time as CES, sending out "sign up now" cards less than 30 days before an event in a town where hotels are effectively sold out is a major league waste of money.

Jim: Kickbacks... basically, if the show makes the number of rooms nights they require (I am suspecting close to 1000 room nights average for a 5 or 7 day period) they will get an amount equal to the travel agent commission, or other financial or non-financial spiffs for hitting the goal. It can also be a reduction in the cost of the show floor space, or not having to pay an surcharge for failing to make the number. In the overall scheme of things, it isn't the biggest number in the game, but it is one of many ways that a very large show like this can pad the numbers. They probably wasted most of that spiff money mailing out these cards.

Alex

Surfn

2005-12-09, 06:02 PM

I received the postcard in early November. I'm talking about the legal size envelope with the fold up.

Far-L

2005-12-09, 07:58 PM

Has anyone here complained to someone at Internext and or AVN?

The postcard issue is easily correctable and would have zero to do with whether or not anyone is profiting on it.

Useless

2005-12-09, 08:28 PM

I guess those of us who have never been and most likely never will attend an internext don't have to worry about indiscreet mailings. :D Hell, if they won't send me the magazine I subscribed to months and months ago, they certainly aren't going to send me any invitations. They do manage to send quite few daily emails that are now routed directly to my junkbox.

docholly

2005-12-09, 10:03 PM

I got mine yesterday tho i doubt if my postman even gave it a 2nd thought considering the amount of Useless mail i get already. Not in an envelope. and no cancelled stamped date..

I'm sure that wouldn't be the case of someone who would be attending from oh say Alabama or Iowa or some other non - porn friendly state which is about OH 49 others.

and since this is from a supposedily tech savvy company, you'd think they could run a query in the database and pull out those who'd already signed up.

oh but that's just me.

GonZo

2005-12-10, 02:03 AM

Has anyone here complained to someone at Internext and or AVN?

The postcard issue is easily correctable and would have zero to do with whether or not anyone is profiting on it.
I know I have... on the phone, in email and in person.

And Ive complained about them selling my personal information to Girls Gone Wild as well for marketing.

They havent given a fuck in the past.

Linkster

2005-12-10, 06:46 AM

Has anyone here complained to someone at Internext and or AVN?

The postcard issue is easily correctable and would have zero to do with whether or not anyone is profiting on it.

Yes I did as I stated in this other thread you were involved in - first post of the thread - and then I emailed and there was no answer ever about it

http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?t=25692&page=1&pp=25&highlight=postcard

SirMoby

2005-12-10, 09:21 AM

Linkster: Tell us what date it was mailed on... If the mail was slow - is that also AVN's fault?

Also, why shouldn't they continue to market the show to people that are most likely to refer more business? I think you could likely put anything they do into a negative light but there are definitely two ways to look at the situation in your example.
Do you work for AVN? If you do then why don't you or someone at AVN know exactly when the mailer went out? To answer your question, yes, if AVN sent out the mailers they should accept responsibility for the mail being slow. That's part of being a professional organization that provides a service to its customers. Either the mailers took 6 weeks to be delivered or it was poor planning and since it seems that AVN doesn’t know the date then the evidence points to poor planning.

Of course poor planning isn’t a big deal if you accept that it was poor planning and focus on fixing the issues.

DangerDave

2005-12-10, 03:05 PM

I still want to know whay AVN email dont have REMOVE links!

<insert broken record sound here>

DD

Bobby Banger

2005-12-12, 01:22 PM

but we're faced with the old cant be in 2 places delima [sp?]

The prices this year are simply to high.

Linkster

2005-12-12, 05:25 PM

I still want to know whay AVN email dont have REMOVE links!

DD

Looks like they got the hint - theyre in todays email

RawAlex

2005-12-12, 05:53 PM

Guess what I got in the mail today?

ANOTHER FUCKING POSTCARD.

AVN, please: if I am not signed up by now, coming from CANADA, it is very unlikely I will show up because there are no more fucking hotel rooms in Vegas for less than the national debt of a third world nation.

I do not want openly adult materials shipped to me without plain wrapping. Can you please adjust your marketing programs for the next show to have a little sensitivity to those people you are trying to sell to?

Alex

guestcam

2005-12-14, 07:56 PM

So have you received your mailing from AVN's lastest direct mail campaign ?

Its for the latest of AVN's magazines. The front of the envelope - yes outside on the front of the envelope right next to your address - perfect for photocopying all together - AVN features the cover of their new magazine.

did you get that mailer yet? Whats your reaction?
H

Preacher

2005-12-14, 08:03 PM

Whats your reaction?

Uh...good thing they don't have my address. |badidea|

I get all kinds of porn shit sent to me by mail. "Exclusive Video Offers Inside. Must be 18 to open." I mean Hell it happens, I'm sure the postman just doesn't even care about what kind of mail you are getting.

Now when he accidentaly drops your mail into your neighbors box...then it's time to get steamed. :D

RawAlex

2005-12-14, 08:09 PM

Having my neighbor's show up with my "interclimax" check is always a good one...

Strange, they wire money to me now instead :)

Alex

Toni KatVixen

2005-12-14, 08:17 PM

Yeah, the gayvn ad? That is FUCKED up! We live in a quiet neighborhood & we don't need our neighbors seeing this shit!

We need to tar & feather AVN for their stupidity! What tools..... |angry|

guestcam

2005-12-14, 09:44 PM

Yeah, the gayvn ad? That is FUCKED up! We live in a quiet neighborhood & we don't need our neighbors seeing this shit!

We need to tar & feather AVN for their stupidity! What tools..... |angry|
THAT be the one. And I agree with you.

I emailed the exec of sales with a nice little email|angry|. Goto avnonline's contact us page and you'll see the email addy's listed there.

I thought the top dog of avn sales was my target - since this direct mailing IS the product of a sales campaign. right?

anyway I live in a more redneck part of LA county and I dont need the local tobacco chewers attention.

zoezane

2007-07-30, 06:52 PM

I have attended Amateur Camz Parties the past few years and some of the parties were great and others were so so (2007 party was over at strip club Olympic Garden). When I talk to Dan he just blows me off, he is really busy. Dan and are are cool. I have a bigger vision of where I want to take amateur porn/live TV broadcast. As for AVN, making it great for Internet webmasters/amateurs it will take a month of Sundays for it to happen. AVN is big business and big money. The porn industry starlets will never go away. Joe blow from Nebraska has fantasied about it for 5 years and he is there. I will say that the energy of AVN sucks. Ask some of my amateur housewife girlfriend what they think. I said it! Organizing a "Amateur AVN Show" like AVN would be great like LA Adult Con. Some of my amateur friends are getting attention from the UK/Ireland for their work on TV. Europe is very open minded. And, amateur porn is taking over whether the porn industry likes it or not. Amateur porn is real and fresh. It has personality and pazazz! I know what ABC Niteline thinks of amateur porn, it is da BOMB! Ya baby. |boobies|
HUM? How about a amateur/webmaster section at AVN? But AVN will charge us a lot for it. How about a lot of amateurs going under one name and contributing to the booth. Call it "Porn with Pazazz" come meet the girl/babe/housewife next door. I'm brain storming right now. Any ideas? So then all the web masters and the models can get in under one company name for a small amount. Date changes for AVN, another issue. Ya, having it in September or October would be better. Why January??? It is slow for Las Vegas??? After Xmas? The CES show?
|cry|

Toby

2007-07-30, 07:05 PM

Ummm, did I just go back in time 19 months?

AVN could not care less about the independent webmasters and independent amateur sites, unless you're one of the few buying their ad space.

EmporerEJ

2007-07-31, 12:57 AM

Are we talking about AVN, or AVNOnline here?
One large company, but very distinct divisions.

Greenguy

2007-07-31, 05:42 AM

Are we talking about AVN, or AVNOnline here?
One large company, but very distinct divisions.Seeing as it was 19 months ago, I'd have to go back & re-read it to know for sure.

But based on everything, I'd think it was safe to assume that I think both suck when it comes to the everyday webmaster.

****

Thanks to zoezane for bringing up a really old thread for no fucking reason |thumb

GonZo

2007-07-31, 09:15 AM

Seeing as it was 19 months ago, I'd have to go back & re-read it to know for sure.

But based on everything, I'd think it was safe to assume that I think both suck when it comes to the everyday webmaster.

****

Thanks to zoezane for bringing up a really old thread for no fucking reason |thumb

She has a bigger vision of what Am porn should be . . .

EmporerEJ

2007-07-31, 01:14 PM

But based on everything, I'd think it was safe to assume that I think both suck when it comes to the everyday webmaster.

****
|thumb

I'm sure you have a reason for saying that, but I have to disagree. Paul started as a video store owner, a little guy, and successive editors of AVNOnline have been good, decent people, including the current editor, Kathee Brewer. (Who has been with the mag for Many, MANY years.)
I know first hand she cares very much about webmasters, and treats everyone with respect. She has also been known to bite the hand that feeds them,because it was the right thing to do. Again, I know this first hand, from an experience I knew all the details on.

You may some get traction with "they favor advertisers when it comes to reviewing products." But hey, they ARE a trade journal. I've noticed web boards allow advertisers to put up "stickies," and have special privileges when it comes to announcements and things. Please, tell me how this is different?

Greenguy

2007-07-31, 02:09 PM

If you really want to hear my views on AVN, go listed to these radio shows (in this order)

January 24 2006 (http://www.greenguysboard.com/radio/ggaj060124.mp3) - 40 minutes of crap & 40 minutes with Farley from AVN
January 17 2006 (http://www.greenguysboard.com/radio/ggaj060117.mp3) - Contests, Announcements, More Vegas Stuff, 1996-98 Sponsors
January 10 2006 (http://www.greenguysboard.com/radio/ggaj060110.mp3) - Vegas 2006 Recap Part 1
December 13 2005 (http://www.greenguysboard.com/radio/ggaj051213.mp3) - AVN Show Recap, Non-English Speaking Webmasters
December 6 2005 (http://www.greenguysboard.com/radio/ggaj051206.mp3) - Far-L From HomeGrown & Farley From AVN Discuss Internext

Yes, 5 hours of crap to go thru - that's how much on air time we dedicated to this subject 18 months ago when this thread was going on. There's more threads about AVN & Internext as well - most from 2006 & prior (but I think there is one about the 2007 Vegas show where DrB was giving them another chance)

EmporerEJ

2007-07-31, 03:32 PM

If you really want to hear my views on AVN, go listed to these radio shows (in this order)
December 6 2005 (http://www.greenguysboard.com/radio/ggaj051206.mp3) - Far-L From HomeGrown & Farley From AVN Discuss Internext

Yes, 5 hours of crap to go thru - that's how much on air time we dedicated to this subject 18 months ago when this thread was going on. There's more threads about AVN & Internext as well - most from 2006 & prior (but I think there is one about the 2007 Vegas show where DrB was giving them another chance)

Well, I'm very sure it's all good listening, and I mean no disrespect, as I'm sure your opinion is important to you, but it's just not that important to me. That is, not important enough to invest 5 hours. I have grabbed the show With Farrel though. I'll at least give that a few minutes to see what he has to say. I've known him for many years, and
highly value his opinion on any subject.

And I think I'll stick with the opinion of AVN I've formed on my own for now. But I certainly respect your having an opinion of your own.
Aren't capitalism and free speech great things?
|thumb

Greenguy

2007-07-31, 03:41 PM

So you want to hear my opinion...as long as it doesn't take too long?

If you're gonna listen to one, I'd suggest this one:
January 24 2006 (http://www.greenguysboard.com/radio/ggaj060124.mp3) - 40 minutes of crap & 40 minutes with Farley from AVN
Start about 40 minutes into it - the short version is that Farley convinced me to give Internext one more chance & this is me discussing what I liked & disliked after the show (of course, he was 40 minutes late for the interview, so the 1st part is mostly me bitching that he didn't have the balls to come on the show)

I love Far-L as well, but he's a tad bit on AVN's side due to him owning a video company & not being an everyday webmaster, which is what the entire debate is all about.

EmporerEJ

2007-07-31, 04:44 PM

So you want to hear my opinion...as long as it doesn't take too long?

I love Far-L as well, but he's a tad bit on AVN's side due to him owning a video company & not being an everyday webmaster, which is what the entire debate is all about.

Yea, that's about it. I would like a "summary," not a whole report. Ultimately, it all comes down to everyone's individual perspective anyhow. I've been an exhibitor at Internext, and more often a reporter for AVNOnline. I'll be a featured speaker this week at Internext in Florida. I think, that maybe allot of opinion is about what they THINK it should be, for them, as opposed to what it actually is. And I'm by no means a devote' Of Internext. For us, exhibiting there isn't the best investment of my marketing dollars. Nothing wrong with it, just not the choice I will make after the first year. I also had a major complaint, which is long gone water under the bridge. As a result, I don't exhibit anymore. That's how I voted with my dollars.
But When I find myself having a negative opinion, I say "Ok, but what if it wasn't there at all?" Then we'd complain 'cause there wasn't anything.
'Cause I'm not gonna run a show. I think any "show" has value, in that, it's an opportunity to meet with others you would not normally meet with, and a way to see "new and exciting thing."

Adult webmasters are an odd lot to start with. Most work out of their homes, I'll bet many of them roll out of bed, and into "the office," just a few feet away. They start out as an anti-social lot. How do you make a "happy" show for them?

I mean, let's face it, we all want to go to a show, see what everyone else is doing, find that million dollar idea that will only work if WE do it, meet cool people, go to a good party, and accidentally walk into a hotel room/ pool cabana/ beach hideaway/ (fill in your own fantasy here) with two hot porn chics making out, that suddenly decide we're the answer to their sexual needs at the moment.

Now, do I paint an accurate picture, or what?

Greenguy

2007-07-31, 05:51 PM

...I'll be a featured speaker this week at Internext in Florida....How much you getting paid for that? :D

The long & short of it is that Miami is way too expensive & Vegas is a distant 2nd to AEE as far as importance in their eyes (I do love giving a seminar in the basement of the hotel as the kitchen staff pushes a cart behind the panel area)

AVN takes care of the video companies - and from what I'm told, they take care of them very well. The everyday webmaster that's building sites & galleries & maintaining link lists & tgp's & blogs is like the redheaded step-child.

That's why I love that XBiz's forums came along 6 months after I lost all faith in AVN |thumb

Like I said before - this is all old news to most people. Do some reading & listen to some audio & you'll be caught up to where we left this 18 months ago :)

Greenguy

2007-07-31, 05:59 PM

Posted Today, 12:57 AM
Are we talking about AVN, or AVNOnline here?
One large company, but very distinct divisions.

I think you really need to re-read this thread, since you posted in it NINE FUCKING TIMES 18 months ago.

AVNOnline Management is QUITE aware of my position...

I was unable to listen live...

Far-L I'll never be as big a whore as you man...

I'll be happy to forward my conversations with Kat (With her permission of course)

Jim-
I'm concerned that something is getting missed here in this conversation. ..

OUTSTANDING!
I shall now be a "regular" listener...

Hmmmm...hard to say...

DIRT CHEAP?
Wow, I'm coming to work for you...

Sure sure....the one show I REALLY want to listen to, and you muck it up...

So you want to tell me why the fuck you're asking questions that you already know the answer to?

EmporerEJ

2007-07-31, 07:12 PM

How much you getting paid for that? :D

The long & short of it is that Miami is way too expensive & Vegas is a distant 2nd to AEE as far as importance in their eyes (I do love giving a seminar in the basement of the hotel as the kitchen staff pushes a cart behind the panel area)

AVN takes care of the video companies - and from what I'm told, they take care of them very well. The everyday webmaster that's building sites & galleries & maintaining link lists & tgp's & blogs is like the redheaded step-child.

That's why I love that XBiz's forums came along 6 months after I lost all faith in AVN |thumb

Like I said before - this is all old news to most people. Do some reading & listen to some audio & you'll be caught up to where we left this 18 months ago :)

I find it a bit rude to ask someone their salary? Perhaps you'd like to share your 1040 with all of us?

I didn't re-start this thread, I just added to it after someone else did. I caught my eye, so away I went.
I was responding to Zoe, and then you chimed in with the "my opinion 19 months ago."

I wasn't aware there was an expiration date to threads.
If it bothered you so much, why did you post into it again, and again????
And what's wrong with reviewing an old position? You make a determination 19 months ago, and then locked in for life on that? That explains allot.

EmporerEJ

2007-07-31, 07:18 PM

Posted Today, 12:57 AM

I think you really need to re-read this thread, since you posted in it NINE FUCKING TIMES 18 months ago.
So you want to tell me why the fuck you're asking questions that you already know the answer to?

Yea, that was 18 months ago.
So let me see if I've got this right......
Post here infrequently, get a rash of shit when you do post something....
Post here, and get a rash of shit for responding to another poster's comments. (Who apparently broke the "Thanks to zoezane for bringing up a really old thread for no fucking reason" Rule) Oh, and she apparently did have a reason, as she posed several questions in her "no fucking reason" section of her post.
After learning she broke the expiration rule, I'm not surprised she didn't post again.

Greenguy

2007-07-31, 07:43 PM

I find it a bit rude to ask someone their salary? Perhaps you'd like to share your 1040 with all of us?...I asked because I've spoken at AVN events - I know there is no pay (other than a free badge)

...I didn't re-start this thread, I just added to it after someone else did. I caught my eye, so away I went.
I was responding to Zoe, and then you chimed in with the "my opinion 19 months ago."...So we're to believe that your "AVN or AVN Online" question was solely based on zoezane's post?

...I wasn't aware there was an expiration date to threads.
If it bothered you so much, why did you post into it again, and again????
And what's wrong with reviewing an old position? You make a determination 19 months ago, and then locked in for life on that? That explains allot.If your question was based solely on zoezane post, then why didn't you clarify this 5 posts ago? All you had to say was "I was asking zoezane which they were referring to..." & I'd have shut the fuck up.

So why are we reviewing my 19 month old position?

Yea, that was 18 months ago.
So let me see if I've got this right......
Post here infrequently, get a rash of shit when you do post something....
Post here, and get a rash of shit for responding to another poster's comments. (Who apparently broke the "Thanks to zoezane for bringing up a really old thread for no fucking reason" Rule) Oh, and she apparently did have a reason, as she posed several questions in her "no fucking reason" section of her post.
After learning she broke the expiration rule, I'm not surprised she didn't post again.This thread lost steam 18 months ago. I have no idea why someone would post to a thread that's 18 months old. You'd have to ask zoezane that question. All I can do is comment on how silly bringing up an old thread is since this message board has had 15,000 topics since then.

I'm sorry if I don't follow your philosophy of dusting off old things, like your Dec 2006 post in regards to a TV show that aired in Oct 2002 where your website was displayed on a monitor in the background of a cluttered room for a grand total of 2 seconds. Of course, had I not read your post, I'd have had no idea who's website flashed on my screen anyway |thumb

And this has nothing to do with how often you visit the board or post. I'm just boggled as to why you seem to have so many questions about a topic that you heavily contributed to. It's like you wanted to start another (or reopen the existing) debate on the subject for some reason. But obviously, I'm a moron because you're not speaking to me or anyone else.

I guess zoezane needs to reply to your question.

EmporerEJ

2007-07-31, 08:30 PM

Yea, whatever.
I can see you'll just keep at this until "you're right."
I think I remember why I wandered away 18 months ago.
I understand the board is your life. It isn't mine, and I don't fact check every statement I make and cross chart it against every other statement I made over the past 24 years. (My time in the adult industry.) It catches my eye, I respond. I don't re-review the thread. I use the "Go to most recent unread post" option, respond, and move on.

And as for our multiple TV exposures, I find every one of them valuable, for any length of time. The episode in question has actually been re-cut from the original, which included a bit more of our material.

Oh, the changing times of what's allowed on TV, and the addition of more commercials to shows. In this particular case, we lost some air time. I must have missed your spot on the show? Did your segment get completely cut?
There were allot more people in the industry on that show, and it was of great general interest to all. And you know what's really ironic about that? Much of that footage was shot at Internext!
How about that? yet another GOOD reason for the shows. The mainstream media recognizes that is where to go to get stories and B-Roll. But I'm sure you have a reason why that's no good too, right?

I'm just so damn tired of this intra industry bashing. People go to the trouble to pull together a show, for whatever reason, and there is always somebody ready to stand in the corner and spit on it.
Or, just run down what is a positive experience.

Hey, that's OK. you believe what you want.

Somebody must be seeing it. Every time any one of our appearances airs, we see a very distinctive spike in traffic and orders.
I can always tell when we are on one of the international appearances they re-run from the BBC.

But you stick with what you KNOW to be right. That'll work best for you I think.

And as for "Ask Zoe;" why that's exactly what I did do. Then you popped in and pissed on her leg about her "audacity" of starting up an old thread that had "Lost steam." -Cooking now, isn't it?

I'm truly sorry that you haven't been paid for your appearances.

Greenguy

2007-07-31, 08:38 PM

Well, you certainly put me & my pitiful 11 years of adult webmastering to shame. Of course, I was only 12 when you got into the adult industry, so I'll have to go yell at my parents for not fucking sooner so that I could have as many years experience as someone who is as wise an elder as you.

LEARN FROM THIS MAN, MY FELLOW ADULT INDUSTRY NEWBIES!

Have fun in Miami & keep telling yourself that a free badge is plenty of compensation for your appearance |thumb

EmporerEJ

2007-07-31, 09:27 PM

Oh, suggestion for the system administrator to avoid these awful thread revivals?
Turn off the "alert user when someone posts in the thread you posted in" for whatever time period you have determined is an "out of steam thread." Or at least add the line : "Post at your peril, cause this thread is xxx months old, and has been determined to not matter anymore. You will be ridiculed and berated for responding."

'Cause, as I look back, that's how I got involved. Got the email from your system telling me someone responded to a thread I was posting in. Not sure how Zoe revived it. But that's how I was alerted.

Oh, wait....can't you lock old threads? Yes, I'm sure that's a function of the message board software. Then you could avoid all this nonsense as well. Just lock 'em all up after a certain time. Then you have that "control fix," as well.

I figured it was safe to respond to a thread I had posted in (my bad for thinking that.)
I already knew it was wrong to start a new thread that didn't fit the ever changing requirements. (See above confirmation)

But I will give you a bit of marketing philosophy we use, since you've been so kind.....
ANY appearance, ANY...where the outcome is to expose our product to one new potential user, marketer, or media source is worth it's time in gold. Compensation aside, I think I would consider PAYING for an appearance that meets my criteria.
That might have something to do with longevity in ANY business.
Rolling with the changes from Super 8, to Video, to BBS, to internet does give one a perspective on the industry that only a lengthy exposure like that can do. If you're lucky, maybe you'll be able to see that thing that comes after whatever is happening when I drop dead, being the next generation and all.

Toby

2007-07-31, 11:03 PM

...Rolling with the changes from Super 8, to Video, to BBS, to internet does give one a perspective on the industry that only a lengthy exposure like that can do. If you're lucky, maybe you'll be able to see that thing that comes after whatever is happening when I drop dead, being the next generation and all.Y'know Eric, more often than not over the years I've been on your side when such debates occur. However, in this case I have to say that all that experience you listed above is of absolutely zero relevance to the topic of this thread, which was (when it began 19 months ago) AVN/Internet and the independent webmaster, i.e. those that don't own affiliate programs with multiple paysites, but those of us that make a living promoting affiliate programs. I don't think you've ever worn that hat.

Listen to the two radio shows with Farley. He does finally admit that perhaps Internext isn't the show for independent webmasters.

EmporerEJ

2007-08-01, 03:37 AM

Y'know Eric, more often than not over the years I've been on your side when such debates occur. However, in this case I have to say that all that experience you listed above is of absolutely zero relevance to the topic of this thread, which was (when it began 19 months ago) AVN/Internet and the independent webmaster, i.e. those that don't own affiliate programs with multiple paysites, but those of us that make a living promoting affiliate programs. I don't think you've ever worn that hat.

Listen to the two radio shows with Farley. He does finally admit that perhaps Internext isn't the show for independent webmasters.

Toby-
I certainly respect your opinion. At this point, it's so far off the original topic I don't think it really means anything.
I just don't think that a general statement that they could care less covers it, as I know the editor personally, (AVNOnline) and I KNOW that's not her attitude. It is never my attitude when writing for the magazine, and never would be. Can't speak to "AVN." Always been my opinion that they think the internet is a "fad."
AVNOnline was always a separate "property." I started by asking for clarification on who "sucked." I don't have an argument on AVN, as it's pretty clear this isn't their venue.

But I don't really have anything else helpful on the subject.

Greenguy

2007-08-01, 08:23 AM

...But I will give you a bit of marketing philosophy we use, since you've been so kind.....
ANY appearance, ANY...where the outcome is to expose our product to one new potential user, marketer, or media source is worth it's time in gold. Compensation aside, I think I would consider PAYING for an appearance that meets my criteria...The rest of that post is unimportant - but this is a gem.

Do you not realize that AVN knows this as well, so while their getting 4-6 experts in a field to speak for free, they are charging the people that are there to learn from them $100-150 per person.

And then there's the spam part - you're not the only one to sit on a panel & use self-promotion. But what does that say to the person that forked over money to hear the speakers basically spam themselves.

That's one of the reasons that I've fucking hatred EVERY "traffic" panel I've been on with the exception of last month's XBiz seminar - there's always a Search Engine or traffic buying/selling person on the panel giving away tiny bits of the puzzle, then plugging how you can find them after & the URL of the website where they will help you buy or sell traffic so that they can get their cut.

XBiz finally figured this part out & had 4 of us up there that had nothing to sell anyone listening. We were Link List owners & a blog guy explaining to the everyday webmaster how to get traffic for free.

I'm not saying that I didn't plug my site as well as the board. I'm saying I had nothing to sell anyone that was listening. I was there to give out advice - like I do every day here on the board & have done for the last 8 years.

So go grab your media exposure & speak to people that paid AVN to hear about what your product does |thumb

***

And to answer your initial question - AVN & AVN Online are the same when it comes to the independent webmaster, because they have no idea who any of us are - we barely exist in their eyes.

docholly

2007-08-01, 08:41 AM

I'm not saying that I didn't plug my site as well as the board. I'm saying I had nothing to sell anyone that was listening. I was there to give out advice - like I do every day here on the board & have done for the last 8 years.

Actually, if i recall correctly, you did a piss poor job of promoting the board. and what not |club|

Greenguy

2007-08-01, 08:52 AM

Actually, if i recall correctly, you did a piss poor job of promoting the board. and what not |club|Yup - I only mentioned the board twice & I missed a great chance to whore myself out by saying that I post my stats once a month.

I'm the kind of asshole that's there to actually help people & not |spam| myself :D

digifan

2007-08-01, 10:52 AM

Yup - I only mentioned the board twice & I missed a great chance to whore myself out by saying that I post my stats once a month.

I'm the kind of asshole that's there to actually help people & not |spam| myself :D

You say asshole, I call you a great guy |smooch|

EmporerEJ

2007-08-01, 03:00 PM

The rest of that post is unimportant - but this is a gem.

Do you not realize that AVN knows this as well, so while their getting 4-6 experts in a field to speak for free, they are charging the people that are there to learn from them $100-150 per person.

And then there's the spam part - you're not the only one to sit on a panel & use self-promotion. But what does that say to the person that forked over money to hear the speakers basically spam themselves.

That's one of the reasons that I've fucking hatred EVERY "traffic" panel I've been on with the exception of last month's XBiz seminar - there's always a Search Engine or traffic buying/selling person on the panel giving away tiny bits of the puzzle, then plugging how you can find them after & the URL of the website where they will help you buy or sell traffic so that they can get their cut.

I'm not saying that I didn't plug my site as well as the board. I'm saying I had nothing to sell anyone that was listening. I was there to give out advice - like I do every day here on the board & have done for the last 8 years.

So go grab your media exposure & speak to people that paid AVN to hear about what your product does |thumb

***

.

OF COURSE THEY ARE. They are a BUSINESS. They are providing access. It's the payoff. Is this NOT obvious, that it has to be explained?
I used to shake my head when starry eyed dreamers would talk about "helping everyone for free," and "love thy neighbor" crap. Now I just say, you go get 'em. You go get'em greenie. You're a swell guy.
You get your e-ticket punched for the slice and dice world of traffic management heaven. They will name a chair after you.
I prefer to earn along with the people we are helping.
I used to shake my head when starry eyed dreamers would talk about "helping everyone"

I provide the future by selling it to people. To pay for the research. I show a non-competitive way I can re-purpose people's content. THAT'S WHY THEY ARE THERE. to find new ways to make money.

I'm just not gonna argue about this any more. You refine, refine, and refine your dialing in on the very perfect traffic patterns, and your filtering system for picking that one out of 500, or 5,000, or whatever the current Nirvana number is for traffic sales, and you sell away.
I wish you all the luck in the world. I hope you are the very best traffic management/sales site their is. And after all your work, I'll bet you'll understand everything there is to know about that.
And then what?
You sell that access to people to look at whatever website will pay to strain out the 1-5000 customer, right? Churn them out at, what is it now? 37 days membership before they defect?
(I have no idea if any of those numbers are accurate)
Churn and burn. That's a hard way to make a living, but OK, if that's what you want to do. Too high of a work/return percentage for me.

I think I'll pass.

But back to the point. Apparently, from your perspective, AVN doesn't care. So be it. I think otherwise.
We will simply have to agree to disagree.

Greenguy

2007-08-01, 03:08 PM

...You sell that access to people to look at whatever website will pay to strain out the 1-5000 customer, right? ...

...We will simply have to agree to disagree.
1 - I have no pre-paid ads - I promote sites that surfers have joined via my links in the past. Sorry if you assumed I was being bought out by the sites I promote

2 - I thought we did 18 months ago :D

CraigT

2007-08-06, 05:29 PM

A little late for this one question, but has to be asked, as it will be on the minds of everyone looking at their credit card bills from this last show in Hollywood..

Why are there two menus for the diplomat, one with normal prices all year long... and one for our week where a burger and sandwich is $55
...true story. I can almost understand the expensive drinks, but c'mon, those prices are insane.....

Never mind, we know the answer.... it's just coincidence ....

Toby

2007-08-06, 05:38 PM

Useless

2007-08-06, 09:05 PM

Why are there two menus for the diplomat, one with normal prices all year long... and one for our week where a burger and sandwich is $55
...true story.Is sodomy legal in Florida? Because that's what I call a good ol' fashioned ass fucking.

EmporerEJ

2007-08-07, 12:57 AM

Why do people feel they must stay at the Hotel?
Being the po' bid'ness man I am, I stayed at the sleep inn up the road a piece. Ate where I wanted to, had a mustang convertible to tool around in, got free breakfast, paper, HBO, Microwave and refrigerator in my room, all for less that the cost of one night's luxury suite at the diplomat.
You guys just gotta learn to be cost conscience.

In fact, the entire trip, with airfare, cost me less than what it would have cost to stay in one of the luxury suites there at the fancy hotel.

Greenguy

2007-08-07, 09:03 AM

Why do people feel they must stay at the Hotel?...Why does AVN force the hotel down our throats? I've asked them why they don't rent a hall for the convention, let people stay wherever they want, let people have parties at various locvations.....oh yeah, that'd mean less money for your friends at AVN.

EmporerEJ

2007-08-07, 01:18 PM

Why does AVN force the hotel down our throats? I've asked them why they don't rent a hall for the convention, let people stay wherever they want, let people have parties at various locvations.....oh yeah, that'd mean less money for your friends at AVN.

Oh, I get it now.....
Somehow, you feel slighted by AVN, and since I'm somehow peripherally connected to them, I'm the bad guy, right?
Now I think I see. K, let's get this straight.....I'm NOT AVN, or any part of it. Yes, I have written for them, and been employed by them.
I've also been treated very fairly, and with great respect by them. And I might add, NOT because I've purchased any advertising or anything like that.
They didn't "Force the hotel down anyone's throat." It's ridiculously expensive if you ask me, and yet there seems to be people that want to pay for it. I DO like the fact that they close the facility to outsiders. That way, you know you are only dealing with industry people. And in the adult industry, things can be a bit more "uninhibited," shall we say.
But your above statement of "rent a hall, and let people stay where they want, is EXACTLY what happened. I stayed at the sleep inn. Very nice place. Caters to the cruise crowd, free 'net, all the goodies for $70/night. So you implying people couldn't do exactly what you suggest is disingenuous.

And when did it suddenly become "bad" to make money? Personally, I disagree with the $300 entry fee, as I've stated repeatedly. My thinking is, make the entry fee near -zero- (But not completely zero of course,) get a bigger crowd, leads to more visitors, leads to more booths, which then leads to more interest, and the cycle repeats. But I would think making money on the event would be the reason to have it. I think EVERYONE that has one of these events is in it to make money. Haven't seen a whole lot of non-profits in the adult industry.

I hope AVN makes as much money as they can. I hope you make a great big bag of money you have to rent a wheelbarrow to take it down to the bank. More money in the adult industry means more power to combat the right wing nuts that are trying to shut us down.

Oh, and yes, I'm doing this to make money too. Of course I'd like to change the world, but I'm most definitely going to make money along the way.

Greenguy

2007-08-07, 02:56 PM

You're giving yourself WAAAAAAAAAAY too much credit.

Useless

2007-08-07, 03:35 PM

Why do people feel they must stay at the Hotel?Eric, it's called convenience. People fly in to attend to the event and prefer to keep things simple. Life tends to be easiest when you can stay at the show's venue. I'm beginning to think that you are more adverse to people complaining about shit that SHOULD BE COMPLAINED ABOUT than you are to the issues which most webmasters have with AVN's show.

EmporerEJ

2007-08-07, 06:47 PM

Eric, it's called convenience. People fly in to attend to the event and prefer to keep things simple. Life tends to be easiest when you can stay at the show's venue. I'm beginning to think that you are more adverse to people complaining about shit that SHOULD BE COMPLAINED ABOUT than you are to the issues which most webmasters have with AVN's show.

Well, I can certainly understand a need for convenience. But the message I responded to was about:

"Why does AVN force the hotel down our throats? I've asked them why they don't rent a hall for the convention, let people stay wherever they want, let people have parties at various locvations.....oh yeah, that'd mean less money for your friends at AVN."

posted by Greenie

And I was clarifying that I stayed somewhere else without any "ill effects." I am adverse to the constant bashing that sees to go on in this industry. Hell, the mainstream people don't need to attack too hard. If they just wait around long enough, we'll bash each other to death, and they can just pick up the pieces.

|catfight|
Why is it always about the negative? People wanna bitch about what others are doing, but do they put a better plan in motion? Of course not. Do they make a suggestion to the people that can make a change? of course not. Just pick apart what anyone else is doing. I assure you, it's my impression a little feedback might have more of an influence than you could imagine.

|banghead|

EmporerEJ

2007-08-07, 06:49 PM

You're giving yourself WAAAAAAAAAAY too much credit.

Probably, but I can't count on you to do it.
|sun|ggandj

Useless

2007-08-07, 07:26 PM

Why is it always about the negative? People wanna bitch about what others are doing, but do they put a better plan in motion? Of course not. Do they make a suggestion to the people that can make a change? of course not. Just pick apart what anyone else is doing. I assure you, it's my impression a little feedback might have more of an influence than you could imagine.AVN has received plenty of feedback over of the years, especially concerning the cost of show registration, the ever-dying show floor, and the price gouging at the venue. Yet the registration price continues to increase, I'm told the show floor continues to lack the value it had during Internext's early years, and the gouging has never changed. AVN has been very lucky that adult webmasters have natural sheep-like tendencies and continue to herd into the August show each year. Personally, I disregard the complaints of those who complain each year, yet return the following.

The Vegas show is a little better. For one, it's Vegas. Secondly, the hotels don't jack up the prices for the event. I don't like the timing of the show, since it follows so closely on the heels of Christmas, but AVN doesn't appear to care about my decreased budget during that time of the year.

I've still never figured out why there is any trade show outside of Vegas. Gee, let's wander down to the beach and scald our pathetic pale bodies in the Florida sun.

EmporerEJ

2007-08-07, 11:53 PM

The Vegas show is a little better. For one, it's Vegas. Secondly, the hotels don't jack up the prices for the event.

I've still never figured out why there is any trade show outside of Vegas. Gee, let's wander down to the beach and scald our pathetic pale bodies in the Florida sun.

I'm with you. I'd happily go to Vegas Only. I objected to combining the shows at the same time as CES, which is probably the largest show in the world to hit Vegas. When they have the show before, or preferably after, that works good. Then I can hit both of them on one plane ticket.

And in my case, (And I see yours) the pathetic body isn't the part that really bothers me. It's my shiny bald head that gets burned.
|scared|