Internext/AEE passes anyone :) - AVN SUCKS!!!!!

[Linkster]

Just went over to get mine and was amazed at the prices - and it seems that Internext is Thurs, Fri Sat this time? While AEE is 4 days of course the first day is the only day limited to trade people.
Youve got till Dec 2 to get the reduced prices

While on this subject - did anyone else get a postcard in the mail from internext-expo with writing all over the outside about adult internet entertainment - just what I needed my neighbors and postman to see in this little town - Thanks again you idiots at AVN

[Greenguy]

Media registration is still "Coming Soon!" |thumb

On a side note, the XBiz Awards are "sold out" (wasn't it free last year?)

I wonder if I/we get tickets since we were nominated :D

[Ramster]

These guys are the biggest fucking idiots to walk the face of the Earth. Why can't we have Internext Mon-Wed like EVERY other year? Then there wouldn't be room problems, high room costs and of course we won't go into the problems we'll all have trying to eat with 3 shows going on at the same time or grabbing a cab.

TOTAL IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RawAlex]

Actually, they are totally idiots for a different reason entirely, in my book:

They setup internext to run before the video shows, and have done so for about 5 years. Sadly, the dates of the video show are written to match up to CES - so that there are tons of horny punters wandering around willing to shell $25 or more at the door to come in and drool on pornstars (a pretty good business, really... I give them full credit on this one).

However, if they followed that this year, they would be entirely, utterly fucked.

Why?

The show would run 2nd to the 5th. That would mean the loading and setup days for the internext show would be the 31st and the 1st. Guess what, Union wants a TON more money for those days, and good fucking luck getting a decent priced hotel room at that point. More importantly, good luck finding transport, delivery, and everything else that is running skeleton staff on new years eve, PLUS good luck getting anything moving in town on those days because the place is packed and there is no hope to get anything done.

So, there you go. AVN is fucked, and has fucked us as a result.

Good luck.

[Linkster]

Alex - actually this year they are both on exactly the same days - internext is the 5-7th and AEE is 5-8th - and right next to each other :( And at the exact same time as the exhibits for CES which is also the same days and CES is exhibiting at Sands this year as well

[Torn Rose]

I hear Florida is nice this time of year.

[Cleo]

I hear Florida is nice this time of year.
Easy to say if you have electric

[Ramster]

Easy to say if you have electric

|pokefun| at powerless Cleo


:D

[Cleo]

|pokefun| at powerless Cleo

On the plus side my electric bill for this month should be very cheap. Oh wait… I have to pay for all this gasoline. |shocking|

[Greenguy]

It'd make a lot of sense to have our show Jan 9th-11th - I guess we're not that high on the priority list :(

[Jim]

Media registration is still "Coming Soon!" |thumb

On a side note, the XBiz Awards are "sold out" (wasn't it free last year?)

I wonder if I/we get tickets since we were nominated :D
Since judging is over, I suspect we would have gotten free tickets if there were a reason for us to be there :)

[Jim]

Webmasters are barely a blip on the AVN radar.

[Cleo]

I'll probably go to the next Florida show… maybe.

[Platinum Bryan]

This will be my first time at Internext, so I'm looking forward to it!

[RedCherry]

MadHatter and I are planning on coming. Looking forward to seeing you all again. |waves|

[Jim]

Am I wrong in thinking that since Aly is no longer with AVN, we have nobody to "talk" to about any complaints or compliments?

[PR_Tom]

I think I read on another board that XBiz nominees are covered to go regardless of the "sold out" status. So you might check with 'em.

[Linkster]

Jim - Ill let you know as soon as I get an answer to an email I sent yesterday :) If I get an answer LOL
BTW - if youre really planning to go to both shows - you might try going to AEEs site first and checking their prices for their show - and then check the price at Internext for the combo ticket - you might save a little money :)

[Linkster]

I think I read on another board that XBiz nominees are covered to go regardless of the "sold out" status. So you might check with 'em.

Plus - Ive already had at least one sponsor email me to provide free tickets if I want them - today - so Im sure they are really available if you really wanted to go Jim :)

[Jim]

I wouldn't go unless they told me we won. And then, it would be for overnight. No wait...that is 3 days after I have a new Grandson to hang out with :)

[RawAlex]

Linkster, I understand that the shows are at the same time now, the reasons being as I mentioned - it would not be financially possible this year to run the show on the usual monday to thursday setup, as it would mean massive expenses for setup time that would make the show somewhat less than profitable.

Combining the shows (considering the direction the industry is going) isn't a terrible idea. I think AVN is figuring that the entire internet industry will just be a sideline of the video / video on demand / porn on your phone industry in a couple of years anyway, so why work hard?

It sucks ass totally, it will make this show even worse to handle, and honestly, I am seriously considering NOT attending this one, unless I find a stunning bargain on hotels and such. If it is anything like last year's show, I would have a hard time justifying the expenses that come with it. I got way more done and more people met in Miami this summer than I did last winter in Vegas (I did play a bunch of cards, though....). Paying premium rates and living with the hassle of being in vegas on one of the most insane weeks of the year isn't exactly appealing.

Alex

[Jim]

So, the xbizawards...is there anyone here going?

[Fetishlady]

i looked at the ticket prices and they are still reasonable.

will it be more expensive if you get tickets after dec.2?

[pindilly]

Plus - Ive already had at least one sponsor email me to provide free tickets if I want them - today - so Im sure they are really available if you really wanted to go Jim :)

I had an email asking me if I wanted tickets to the xbiz show too... never seen the email before either

[Linkster]

Alex - if you go to AEE's site and look at the trade personnel links there is a link for lodging - I went in there just to see and they say they can still get rooms at Harrahs next door for 250 a night

FetishLady - yes they will be more after Dec 2

[RawAlex]

$250 a night for harrahs? OMFG that is silly.

Alex

[Ramster]

$250 a night for harrahs? OMFG that is silly.

Alex

No shit. 2 years ago my wife and I stayed there for Internext and the checkout bill after 4 days was UNDER $200 (since I put a $57 deposit down when booking).

[Surfn]

No shit. 2 years ago my wife and I stayed there for Internext and the checkout bill after 4 days was UNDER $200 (since I put a $57 deposit down when booking).
I was there at the same time ;)

[emmanuelle]

Media registration is still "Coming Soon!" |thumb




Please check your old PM's- I sent you that info a couple of weeks ago

[emmanuelle]

I got a package through orbitz- $1850 tx inc- 6 nights at the TI and my flight from Montreal. $1300 less than the same trip staying at the Venetian.

[Far-L]

Folks... I tell you time and time again AVN is not your enemy. Call Renee and talk to her about your beefs. She will happily give you the lowdown on why things are the way they are and how the cost is determined. As always, they are trying to provide a great resource at a reasonable price imo, but if you don't agree talk to them directly and form your own opinion.

CES is a bigger reason for the hotels being so expensive at that time of year.

Internext has helped us provide discounts to amateurs that would not be able to attend otherwise.

You have legit criticisms, no doubt, but those are issues that are easily addressed.

[RawAlex]

Far-L, it isn't about "why" things are expensive, we can all figure it out. I can understand almost down to the smallest item WHY we are paying insane rates for hotels... It just sorta sucks to be put into that position.

Alex

[Linkster]

Although I can see the overall reasons for combining the two shows - it blows me away that they would pickthe same time as CES to hold the shows - more importantly - while there are a few benefits to a few of the companies that might want to exhibit at both shows (Far-L Im sure you are one that loves that arrangement), it is a fact that the WMs that would really like to go to the show - it has become price prohibitive for the "amateur WMs" which is what Internext is supposed to be all about??
It is also a fact that the prices in the past for hotel rooms at the Venetian - the days of Internext were always pretty reasonable - the day that AEE started the prices jumped by at least $100 a day - so it is not CES that is calling the shots - it is the tradition of higher prices paid (at least for the 4 times Ive been to Vegas) once AEE starts.

Second rant - if you are going to pick a hotel - fine - but stick with parties at the hotel - dont make everyone go to last years hotel for the big party - it doesnt make sense - the Venetian has plenty of venues and again, you arent trying to find a cab (cause AVN sure isnt gonna spring for limo busses if you could even get them during CES) and hoofing it all over the strip.

[Linkster]

I was gonna edit but figured since its a separate issue - you will also find that if you go to the AEE page - you can buy your tickets at a discount for an extra 10 days - till the 12th of Dec - vice going to the Internext page where its Dec 2 for the cutoff - not sure why there would be a difference?

[RawAlex]

Linkster, CES and AEE open on the same day, so the influence is about the same... on that particular hotel, yes, AEE has an effect, but AEE doesn't have an effect on the prices at NYNY or Tropicana or whatever... and they are all priced insane for the same time period.

The ventian will likely not have very much space available for larger functions, as most of the other space is rented out to companies doing stuff for CES (display areas, product demos, and whatnot). It is almost impossible to get ballroom space from Wednesday to Sunday... stuff is all taken up and busy. I think you will see every bar, every room, and every hospitality suite overrun with CES geeks. Our show(s) are merely a drop in the bucket compared to CES attendance. 135,000+ people: http://www.cesweb.org/press/news/rd_release_detail.asp?id=10481

The AEE show is held with the CES show because there is a huge number of people in town, business types, who are usually travelling without a wife or other distractions, often alone or only with coworkers. They can easily slide away for a couple of hours to go drool on pornstars. AEE run one week later would not be anywhere near as successful a show, attendance wise. Moving the Internext show to the days right after that wouldn't help very much, as the hotel rooms are still pricey and would require most companies to pay high price rooms anyway for setup time and whatnot.

It is truly a no win situation.

The only thing it does do is make the Florida show hotel prices look sweet.

Alex

[Linkster]

Alex - I guess you kinda echoed my point - having AEE and Internext at the same time is ridiculous - and causes the people that want to go to Internext for the opportunities it provides (networking, making new contacts) totally impossible so it defeats the purpose of Internext. Now having AEE and CES at the same time makes sense - and always has. But remember they always started the last day of Internext in the past so that if people from Internext wanted to stick around they could - for the Webmasters (which was the original purpose of Internext - the internet part of the business) they got to go to a show for a reasonable cost, do business, and network as well as party, five out awards etc.

Because of the changes in the last year and a half, we now see that less than 10% of the sponsors that cater just to webmasters even bother to show up at Internext anymore, the awards have moved to a different event and the only webmasters that can afford to go are established people that can part with 2k - and thats to go see a show that doesnt help them as much as if they used their icq and posted on boards a little more :)

Alex - you and I have been going to these for some time, and we always hook up for the gathering of new contacts, the parties(LOL even if you do leave early) and where do we end up most of the time - talking away from the show floor, or at one suite or another playing poker because the show has no attraction whatsoever anymore other than to get us in the same place at the same time

I think Im going to set up a 4 day stint every year at my house where I can house probably 100 people, and just start doing the same thing for free - Ill even get Pussycash to sponsor it LOL

[Far-L]

Although I can see the overall reasons for combining the two shows - it blows me away that they would pickthe same time as CES to hold the shows - more importantly - while there are a few benefits to a few of the companies that might want to exhibit at both shows (Far-L Im sure you are one that loves that arrangement), it is a fact that the WMs that would really like to go to the show - it has become price prohibitive for the "amateur WMs" which is what Internext is supposed to be all about??
It is also a fact that the prices in the past for hotel rooms at the Venetian - the days of Internext were always pretty reasonable - the day that AEE started the prices jumped by at least $100 a day - so it is not CES that is calling the shots - it is the tradition of higher prices paid (at least for the 4 times Ive been to Vegas) once AEE starts.

Second rant - if you are going to pick a hotel - fine - but stick with parties at the hotel - dont make everyone go to last years hotel for the big party - it doesnt make sense - the Venetian has plenty of venues and again, you arent trying to find a cab (cause AVN sure isnt gonna spring for limo busses if you could even get them during CES) and hoofing it all over the strip.

I am not a fan of the two shows at the same time thing as you would probably assume. We haven't done a booth at the Expo for years - just banners, though this year we are going for kiosks and banners. We haven't been big fans of doing booths at shows for quite a while but we still do one at Internext for a variety of reasons... the bottom line is that it has been good for biz in spite of the pain in the ass and expense goes into it.

We are completely fed up with Venetian and have been staying elsewhere now for better prices (bellagio, and this year we have the "rainman" suite in Caesars - I think the walk to the sands will be better than walking from the rooms at venetian to tell you the truth).

All the hotel's pricing actually jump like that for the CES trust me because I have been doing these shows since the adult expo was still part of CES.

Another thing to consider - We just can't go anywhere with this show because not everyone will welcome a bunch of dirty filthy evil vile pornographers anywhere. Due to past behaviour elsewhere certain places have banned us forever.

My feeling is they really try to do the best with what they have and deserve some slack for that reason.

[Linkster]

Another thing to consider - We just can't go anywhere with this show because not everyone will welcome a bunch of dirty filthy evil vile pornographers anywhere. Due to past behaviour elsewhere certain places have banned us forever.

.

I totally understand that - and actually I have never had a problem paying Venetians prices in the past - and of course paid them again this time - of course at a real reduced rate due to getting the reservations in 6 months ago - but I guess I have to step back and think about all of the people this has harmed - I know many "medium level" webmasters - the general population of people that do this for a living - not a hobby - but have not grown to the level of pulling in a great income - they are still building and have been around 3 years or so - these webmasters (and I have to keep using that term since to me Internext is about webmasters ONLY - and all the programs etc that revolve around that industry) cannot attend their premier industry event because the people that run the event cant figure out how to schedule it a week later - in the same place - or for that matter - wrangle out a new contract because they won't - not because they can't.
Like I said in an earlier post - they are driving away 90% of the population that they are trying to reach - and they have been told about it for two years now. I guess it's just a matter of time (or something a little more drastic) before this whole event goes away.

[Ramster]

Agreed on what Linkster said.

If AVN REALLY wanted to have the show after the AEE & CSS they would.

My room is booked at $320 a night, I'm flying from Canada so more expensive and the badge is $250 (about). So it is costing me and my wife to go roughly $3000 before I eat and drink.

$3000+ is insane! A normal webmaster making a decent living probably cannot afford to go and if they can is it justifiable to go? Maybe...maybe not.

If this show was afterwards and the bades were still $125 then rooms at TI and Harrahs and other places would be $50-99 a night. Drawing in waaaaaaaay more regular webmasters.

[docholly]

I was at the CEA (advisory board) a few weeks ago and raised the question about CES running the same time as the Adult shows and the president of CEA told me they plan it that way on purpose because they get at least 1/2 day extra out of the attendees before they run to see the pornstars which ups their numbers every year and provides relatively 'free' entertainment for the attendees.

This week was SEMA, an equally sized show and directly across the street at the Rivera was Adultcon which was just a huge room of girls 99% naked, signing autographs for 20.00 and the line was out the door into the street.

****a bit of a tip**** it's a bit farther from the Venetian, but the strip has added 50 new double decker buses and the Stardust has fairly good rooms. Also if you want to stay "off strip" even cheaper, there will be transportation from the Rio for CES to the Sands.. so you could stay at the Rio (mildly expensive) Palms (mildly expensive) or the Gold Coast (cheap)

Edit: One thing if you are coming, you might want to do is register for CES. It's free you just have to say you are in purchasing or something. But it's a great show to see the latest technology and several new platforms that will eventually be in need of content delivery.

[Greenguy]

Please check your old PM's- I sent you that info a couple of weeks agoI stink & I think I deleted it my mistake :(

[Greenguy]

Folks... I tell you time and time again AVN is not your enemy.....We tried that with Aly before Miami, but I think we pissed her off with our opinions & options...to the point thast she stopped coming to the board & gave up trying to explain their side of things.

The long & short is that there's no need to have OUR convention in Vegas so soon after New Years, so soon after the August show, at the same time as AEE (they run our by itself in August, so they can run one without the other)

We are all jaded a bit as we know way too much about how the convention works, how you can't have a party without a booth or ads - ask any other Joe Blow off the street that's been to a convention - they have no idea what goes on behind the scenes to the extent that we do.

I can sorta see AVN's POV on this, trying to get as much money out of everyone as they can, because the reality of it is that you really don't need a badge - nor do you need to go thru their travel agent - and you'll have just as good a time & meet the same amount of people - you miss the floor, but big fucking deal - we all know it's not as impressive as it was in 1999 or 2000

But we'll all be there because of AVN - even me, who will probably not be giving them a dime - because they scheduled it.

Move it to March before Easter - Move the Miami show to someplace tollerable in August - spread things out a bit.

I'm rambling....

[Linkster]

Boy Greenie - do I ever agree with you - please move the shows!!!!! and make them at different times - sure we might not be able to go to Orlando - but thats ok - its really more for kids anyway :)

Maybe then we can get webmasters attending the shows again - instead of the BS that goes on now - and maybe a few sponsors that have pulled back might be willing to actually sponsor some things again - heck we might even get to have the industry's award show there again and lord forbid bring back the players ball LOL

[Far-L]

We tried that with Aly before Miami, but I think we pissed her off with our opinions & options...to the point thast she stopped coming to the board & gave up trying to explain their side of things.

The long & short is that there's no need to have OUR convention in Vegas so soon after New Years, so soon after the August show, at the same time as AEE (they run our by itself in August, so they can run one without the other)

We are all jaded a bit as we know way too much about how the convention works, how you can't have a party without a booth or ads - ask any other Joe Blow off the street that's been to a convention - they have no idea what goes on behind the scenes to the extent that we do.

I can sorta see AVN's POV on this, trying to get as much money out of everyone as they can, because the reality of it is that you really don't need a badge - nor do you need to go thru their travel agent - and you'll have just as good a time & meet the same amount of people - you miss the floor, but big fucking deal - we all know it's not as impressive as it was in 1999 or 2000

But we'll all be there because of AVN - even me, who will probably not be giving them a dime - because they scheduled it.

Move it to March before Easter - Move the Miami show to someplace tollerable in August - spread things out a bit.

I'm rambling....

There are pros and cons no matter how you slice it and I agree that florida in august is really hard to deal with if you don't do well in humidity, like me. But I have always liked the show in January being at the same time as CES.

I would be happy to help create a discussion to address the issues though so everyone can get the most out of their hard earned buck.

[Surfn]

We tried that with Aly before Miami, but I think we pissed her off with our opinions & options...to the point thast she stopped coming to the board & gave up trying to explain their side of things.

The long & short is that there's no need to have OUR convention in Vegas so soon after New Years, so soon after the August show, at the same time as AEE (they run our by itself in August, so they can run one without the other)

We are all jaded a bit as we know way too much about how the convention works, how you can't have a party without a booth or ads - ask any other Joe Blow off the street that's been to a convention - they have no idea what goes on behind the scenes to the extent that we do.

I can sorta see AVN's POV on this, trying to get as much money out of everyone as they can, because the reality of it is that you really don't need a badge - nor do you need to go thru their travel agent - and you'll have just as good a time & meet the same amount of people - you miss the floor, but big fucking deal - we all know it's not as impressive as it was in 1999 or 2000

But we'll all be there because of AVN - even me, who will probably not be giving them a dime - because they scheduled it.

Move it to March before Easter - Move the Miami show to someplace tollerable in August - spread things out a bit.

I'm rambling....I agree totally.

More people would probably attend if they used a little common sense.

[emmanuelle]

resent


I stink & I think I deleted it my mistake :(

[magicmike]

Yeah, it'd be nice if they made internext after the AVN show. Fuck its going to be a mad house with CES in town.

I'm still on the wire if I'm going to go. If I do it'll be for the last day or two of the show, and a few days after so CES has time to start clearing out.

Luckily I can get some free rooms at one of the harrah's hotels, as the prices are insane.

[HoneLynn]

So, the xbizawards...is there anyone here going?
I am. I can sneak you in under my skirt ;)

[Jim]

We tried that with Aly before Miami, but I think we pissed her off with our opinions & options...to the point thast she stopped coming to the board & gave up trying to explain their side of things.

The long & short is that there's no need to have OUR convention in Vegas so soon after New Years, so soon after the August show, at the same time as AEE (they run our by itself in August, so they can run one without the other)

We are all jaded a bit as we know way too much about how the convention works, how you can't have a party without a booth or ads - ask any other Joe Blow off the street that's been to a convention - they have no idea what goes on behind the scenes to the extent that we do.

I can sorta see AVN's POV on this, trying to get as much money out of everyone as they can, because the reality of it is that you really don't need a badge - nor do you need to go thru their travel agent - and you'll have just as good a time & meet the same amount of people - you miss the floor, but big fucking deal - we all know it's not as impressive as it was in 1999 or 2000

But we'll all be there because of AVN - even me, who will probably not be giving them a dime - because they scheduled it.

Move it to March before Easter - Move the Miami show to someplace tollerable in August - spread things out a bit.

I'm rambling....
You know how I feel. My hair is getting longer and longer :) You and I are in agreement.

There is absolutely only one reason to have a show in Florida in August. And only one reason for the Vegas show to be right after New Year.

I have said it time and time again. It's OK for it to be about the money as long as it isn't only about the money.

[docholly]

Well the only 'slow' season here in vegas for conventions (we're #1 in the world) is the month of DEC and mid june to mid august. otherwise you have major events all the rest of the time.

Jan-CES/PPAI/World of Concrete/Outdoor World all have excess of 100K

Feb-Magic & Shoe Show 100k

March- Con AG 150K

April NAB-100K

May-National Hardware 100K

soo maybe mid June for Vegas and Mid Nov for Florida??

What i never liked about the Vegas show is it is right after New Years so it really interupts the over the holiday vacation schedule unless you include Vegas on your route.

CES people will start arriving on the 2nd and leave on the 8th because of all the meeting sessions, move in/out and the actual expo.

|cool|

[Linkster]

Gee that means we'll have the round bar to ourselves the night of the 8th :)

[Far-L]

There is no way to make everyone happy.

I like the Jan. Expo show being at the same time as CES though - good for biz, great for publicity, like the ability to check out the latest and greatest in software and hardware, etc.

Simply put there is no way AVN/Internext is going to make everyone happy. Remember - they also have to contend with competing against all the other shows that are going on during the year too - they don't do anything arbitrarily.

More importantly, I know from years of working with them - sometimes begrudgingly like many of you here now seem to be - that they are NOT the enemy. They are reasonable people. They do listen to feedback no matter how negative. To me, that is one hallmark of a good business which is why we have, do, and will continue to enjoy biz with them.

Rather than come across as defending them blindly, which I am sure many of you think i am doing - I urge you to follow the same lead we did and effect a positive change and get on the same page with them, no pun intended.

Thanks for hearing me out.

[Linkster]

Far-L I would tend to think that if AVN really wanted any feedback and discussion about change, they would have someone out in the WM "sphere" answering questions and holding meaningful debates - and after a few past attempts - someone that could actually effect changes that made sense.
While I understand Internext is a very small slice of what AVN does in real life, they chose to try to be the leader when it came to putting everyone on the "same pages"
Read their company mission for Internext: "Internext Expo - The largest event of its kind in the world, Internext Expo is THE forum to attend for all Webmasters and Internet professionals serious about the success of their online business." (highlights added)
Although it's obvious reading their online editions and even the print magazines that AVN is trying to pave the merging of other technologies with the internet street - where I think they have lost sight of their original mission with Internext is their belief (evidently) that all WMs out here are trying to branch out to all of these other models - and we all know that just isnt fact.
Their attempt to try to merge all of this is evident at the last few Internext shows from the types of exhibiters to the seminars to even the sponsors. I found it amazing talking to the people manning booths in Florida - half of them didnt even understand what a link list was, let alone what a webmaster involved in making sites does daily :) Alll they could tell you is that they had a website promoting their SMS, mobile, pod streaming or some new billing model - and these were half of the booths/reps that we ran into.
What seemed to be greatly lacking was actual webmaster information, sponsors, booths that used to be the mainstay of the floor.

Now add to that the confusion of other shows at the same time, prohibitive costs associated with attending "the forum for Webmasters" and all the other little things that people have brought up - and it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out something is wrong and of course as mentioned - top it all off with an "appearance of non-concern" and it becomes easy to see why there are threads on every WM board out there talking about boycotting Florida last year - why the awards show for WMs isnt associated with this show and why the person running the Players ball cant get enough sponsors for his party.

So last thought would be - maybe AVN needs to get on the same page as the WMs - not the other way around?? Just my thoughts

[Greenguy]

Far-l - I do love you :)

CES has NOTHING to do with what we as webmasters do for a living. Sure, you can say that all this cell phone porn crap & iPod's video thing do touch a new side of our business, but the bottom line is that Apple will not have a booth at either event explaining how to sell porn vids to their consumers.

And I'd bet that the % of webmasters that will go to Vegas for Internext just because it's at the same time as CES is really small.

And we have tried to explain our side of things to an AVN employee when Aly (who I also love dearly) was running things. Peek at this thread:
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?t=17973

[RawAlex]

Linkster, you hit it again: AVN needs to run their shows to the benefit and to match the desires of webmasters. What we saw this past year in Miami with the "must have a badge to enter the hotel" certainly seemed to be more of an effort to squeeze money onto the bottom line than it was to fix any real issues that were outstanding. I understand that it was a result of a full hotel takeover and such, but the WAY it was approached was very difficult for many people to accept.

I think they realize that they got screwed on badges in Vegas last year, where most people couldn't get a badge, and many didn't even try. Most of the business got done in places that AVN couldn't charge for a badge, which is just not good for them.

The Venetian is a much better place for AVN to run a show. No a single real good place for a group of people to sit between the casino and the show floor - and it is a fuck of a long hallway. The mooching factor at the venetian will be much lower than it was at the Mandalay.

Running the show at better times of the year (miami about now, maybe Vegas is March?) would be much more condusive to the way we all do buisness. Interrupting holiday plans to scamper off to vegas for a show and to be forced to pay the absolute maximum rates for the whole year in vegas seems a little bit of a weird way to do business. I understand what it does for the AEE show... but we don't need to be there.

My bet? Next year it will be called the AEE Internext show and there will be no discussion of two seperate shows, just an area for internet people where the general public cannot access.

Alex

[Far-L]

Ok...

Going to respond to all of you in this reply...

1. AVN/Internext has tried reaching out, but you all have to admit that Aly took a beating, Tom Hymes got pounded on, everyone that has tried to have a discussion typically gets tarred and feathered.

2. I offer myself as the next in line for the punishment. I stand on both sides of the fence, as old school brick and mortar guy and web operation - so I humbly submit that I am a good person to stand in the middle and broker a peace.

3. Greenie (love ya too) please understand that I was just saying why I like being there during CES and not why anyone else SHOULD for any reason at all.

4. If you all have suggestions for panels then let me know now and I will do anything possible to make them happen. I want topics, speakers, ideas of any kind.

5. I will get feedback from Renee regarding dates and the what, where, why, how of it all so everyone has a better understanding.

6. I don't care what you do but anytime you try to please a majority then a minority is going to be pissed. Consequently, if the big sponsor programs are the ones paying for the booths and free booze then naturally they are going to be catered to in the other areas of the show as well. How many of you link list folks have ever bought a booth? That doesn't mean that your input should be ignored though and we all know that usually the traffic panels are the most heavily attended seminars. Conversely, that means LL and other related people should have a special place in a webmaster show, imo.

7. I have asked for and received special price considerations for amateurs that would not otherwise have been able to afford it so I know that it is not all about the money. There really is a catholic effort to make the benefits of attending available to all concerned.

[Jim]

There is no way to make everyone happy.

Just one point. Does having Internext in Florida in August make anyone happy? Except AVN of course.

[Jim]

I remember before the hurricanes went crazy and they had internext in Florida in October...that was nice. It was cool in the north and almost perfect in Florida. I really can't remember when it used to be in Vegas so I can't really comment. But for the average webmaster to spend so much money just after Christmas is crazy. And everyone that goes to these shows sees them getting smaller and smaller. Why is that? Is it the time of year? Is it the ungodly prices? Or is it just not worth it anymore?

[Far-L]

Just one point. Does having Internext in Florida in August make anyone happy? Except AVN of course.

That is just one of the mysteries that I hope to solve...

I am not a fan of florida in august at all; everytime I see another sweaty picture of myself I pretty much want to puke but where do you think would be a good spot?

Reachable to the common webmaster? Affordable but nice - obviously the hotel airport best western in Seatac is not going to do, lol.

Gimme something to work with - I already got the dissatisfaction part down.

|Jim |greenguy| |peace|

[Ramster]

6. I don't care what you do but anytime you try to please a majority then a minority is going to be pissed. Consequently, if the big sponsor programs are the ones paying for the booths and free booze then naturally they are going to be catered to in the other areas of the show as well. How many of you link list folks have ever bought a booth? That doesn't mean that your input should be ignored though and we all know that usually the traffic panels are the most heavily attended seminars. Conversely, that means LL and other related people should have a special place in a webmaster show, imo.


What does this have to do with the dates of the show?

When the dates were announced on GFY and other boards, 95% of every webmaster said the same thing we are saying. This sucks! It is going to be expensive and way too busy.

And the sponsors want webmasters. They don't care that the CES is going on. Most of them (I'd assume) are glad it is "close to" the AEE show because it saves them travel time/costs coming back to attend but it will still save them if the show followed these shows and didn't run at the same time.

I understand what you are doing Far L and appreciate your postings. If you want suggestions for your boss then here is a legitimate one. From now on make the show like it was in the past. On different dates from the AEE. Just before or just after. Moving venues or wahtever is a stretch but just before or just after is not.

[Far-L]

What does this have to do with the dates of the show?

When the dates were announced on GFY and other boards, 95% of every webmaster said the same thing we are saying. This sucks! It is going to be expensive and way too busy.

And the sponsors want webmasters. They don't care that the CES is going on. Most of them (I'd assume) are glad it is "close to" the AEE show because it saves them travel time/costs coming back to attend but it will still save them if the show followed these shows and didn't run at the same time.

I understand what you are doing Far L and appreciate your postings. If you want suggestions for your boss then here is a legitimate one. From now on make the show like it was in the past. On different dates from the AEE. Just before or just after. Moving venues or wahtever is a stretch but just before or just after is not.

AVN is not my boss... lol.

I am one of the owners of Homegrown Video/Xplor Media and New Destiny Internet Group.

I just like the folks at AVN and I am trying to foster a better relationship for all. The magazine and the shows have been good for biz for us so I am trying to do them a favor out of appreciation.

This year the shows were combined for reasons beyond their control. It won't be like that in the future.

What month and place do you suggest?

[Linkster]

Far-L I applaud that you take it upon yourself to act as a go-between. I tend to disagree that Aly really got tarred and feathered other than by people that dont go to the shows and really were just venting. Most of us respect what she was trying to do and understood fully (I think) that she also was not AVN - but just someone trying to get comments and suggestions and taking them back to AVN.
I remember a discussion on another board with her that evolved into some things actually being accomplished, however I think the impression everyone took away was that her hands were tied from the AVN side and that most of the input she gave them just bounced off.

I also understand that the large sponsors are the people that should be catered to - which is why I've tried to make a point of describing the major changes we have witnessed over the last two years with huge losses of large sponsors - they just aren't sponsoring the show anymore. The first question that pops up when I notice things like that is - why? Why in the world would a major sponsor send one rep - with no booth on the floor - to walk the halls trying to garner business. If it were just one I'd say - well they are having hard times and couldn't justify the expense. However, when it involves at least 20 of the top sponsors, that is an indication of a much larger problem. This is not conjecture, this is just observation of what companies are out there with affiliate programs that work with webmasters (at least in the LL and TGP world of traffic) - and how many of the top 20 actually are visible on the floor of the show. My count at the last show was very few - and the largest of the aff. programs had maybe one rep if you could find them, and sometimes two.

The price of the show (the tickets themselves) are probably not a real big point of contention with most people - I also go to mainstream conventions and know the inflate prices you have to pay for those :) That said, the cost of going to these shows is not about the price of the admission ticket - its the inflated prices that AVN negotiates for the hotel rooms, the inflated cost of everything presented at the show from food, coffee to the drink prices that get raised at the hotel bars. In Florida the bar prices for a well drink was from $8-$12 each - until the day after the show when they went back down to $3. God forbid if you wanted a call drink. In Vegas the hotel prices are at least double what they are the rest of the year - not counting the special discounts you can get at the Venetian if you register for a players card - I get offers all year - even Christmas holidays for under $80 a night for the same room Rose Travel gets for $200 (I guess towards the end when Rose negotiated another block it went up to $250). And most of the price is not due to CES - two years ago I paid 150 a night for the first 3 nights - the price then doubled for the last two nights when AEE started. And CES had been going on the whole time.
This is probably the major reason that most webmasters just cannot go to the shows - most of them cant put out $3k for a show that doesnt represent their business anymore.
Without getting into too much rambling - I agree with your idea about traffic producers having a part in the show (other than the same panel that happens every year) although I dont know exactly how to do it other than the way we have done it in the past having our own separate parties and get togethers that we kick in to sponsor ourselves.

The show is supposed to be designed with the webmasters in mind I would think? Like I said before, I agree about the sponsors having the big bennies - but shouldnt the sponsors be the webmaster program sponsors? I would recommend finding out why they wont sponsor anymore.

Last - this is billed as the premier show of the year for the webmaster community - so why have we taken the webmaster community awards away from the show? Doesn't make much sense as that was a highlight of the show and an opportunity for us to show our appreciation to those that stood out in our community.

[Linkster]

This year the shows were combined for reasons beyond their control. It won't be like that in the future.

What month and place do you suggest?

Unfortunately this discussion of dates and places comes up every year - and the reply is always the same - nothing. Suggestions are made and discussed, but no reply ever comes out - of course Im of the opinion that it never would change as I sure would set up a negotiated schedule quite a few years in advance and I would hope that AVN is smart enough to do the same.
So I dont think that this part of the discussion will go anywhere based on prior history :)

[Far-L]

Unfortunately this discussion of dates and places comes up every year - and the reply is always the same - nothing. Suggestions are made and discussed, but no reply ever comes out - of course Im of the opinion that it never would change as I sure would set up a negotiated schedule quite a few years in advance and I would hope that AVN is smart enough to do the same.
So I dont think that this part of the discussion will go anywhere based on prior history :)

Agreed and thanks for your gracious and informed responses.

At least if you knew when those contracts could change you would have more to work with input-wise.

I am going to get as much feedback here as possible and set up a meeting with AVN/internext this week so give me about a week to get back with responses.

Until then, this input is incredibly useful.

[Greenguy]

I'm thinking that I might want to change the topic of the Radio Show tonight :D

1. AVN/Internext has tried reaching out, but you all have to admit that Aly took a beating, Tom Hymes got pounded on, everyone that has tried to have a discussion typically gets tarred and feathered.
I agree that they got pounded & I really did forget about why there was so much hatred towards AVN at them time, but now I remember:
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?t=17808
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?t=17640
You take those 2 threads into account with the thread on Miami's show & you can hopefully see why we had a bad taste in our mouths about AVN in general.

Plus you really do have to throw in there that a lot of the changes that AVN made for Miami were not told to anyone on this board before they went into place. Not that they have to answer to us for what policies they do & don't implement, but they also have to be able to accept the consequences of negative feedback when they put in what are silly ideas for the betterment of the convention.
- No one needs to fill out that long ass form to get a badge - name, address, URL & CC info is all that's really needed - you think they need to know how much I make? How many sites I have? Useless info that would be used to sell off mailing lists to other companies.
- Increased cost for wireless throughout the hotel - is there really a need to be able to surf in the lobby when your room is a 30 second elevator ride away?
- $250 for the only option of an all access badge for seminars that I would not being going to. If anything, the 2 separate badge prices - floor & floor/seminar - should have never been done away with. If they're not making money with the seminars, then don't offer them. And I really can't see them loosing money with the seminars, as I've spoken on a panel in Vegas & all I got was a badge - no money. (oddly enough, I've not been asked back - LOL)
- It was announced that the hotel only going to be porn people this past year - but that policy had been in place for the 3 years prior, so them using that to justify a price increase is ridiculous.
- I would have spent $3000 on hotel, airfare & the badge before I left the house for Miami - sure, I would have gotten a free breakfast & lunch a couple of the days I was there, but I can eat cereal & fruit at home :D

6. I don't care what you do but anytime you try to please a majority then a minority is going to be pissed. Consequently, if the big sponsor programs are the ones paying for the booths and free booze then naturally they are going to be catered to in the other areas of the show as well. How many of you link list folks have ever bought a booth? That doesn't mean that your input should be ignored though and we all know that usually the traffic panels are the most heavily attended seminars. Conversely, that means LL and other related people should have a special place in a webmaster show, imo.
1st off, we not all Link List people here - there are quite a few of us that run Link Lists & since this is pretty much the only board that caters to Link Lists, I can see why we are looked at in that light, but I don't really consider myself just a Link List owner - I wear many hats & so do all the Link List owners here on the board :)

Now, I want you to think back to the last 4 or 5 conventions - Vegas & Miami - and think about the parties that you've gone to & tell me how many parties you got into with just the AVN badge. I can't think of a party that I've been to in the last 3 years that I got into with just the badge - you need a pass or a VIP pass or a VIP VIP pass :D And that's the way it should be! Would you really want to throw a party for people that do no promote Home Grown? Let everyone & their brother into the party to eat & drink on your tab? Sponsors should use parties to take care of those that promote them, and they are doing that by issuing passes to who they want to attend.

As far as the booths, I've never had one that was my own, but I've worked them for Condom/Netpond & Adult Netsurprise & I can honestly say that no one joined either board because of what me & my fellow webmasters were doing there at the booth. Plus working the booth sucks ass :D

Who was the big sponsor at Vegas in Jan? Talk of the town for about 2-3 weeks after? You probably don't remember, because from what I've heard, they blew most of their money on the booth & I haven't seen a check from them in months.

No one cares anymore who has the biggest booth & the show floor has been shrinking the past few years because sponsors know this.

2 years ago in Vegas all I wanted to do was get a hospitality suite for board members to hang at, have a couple of cocktails & shoot the shit. I could not get my own suite because I did not have a booth on the floor. I'm not even talking about a party that would have been advertised to the masses - I could not get a suite to hold a private party because I did not have a booth.

7. I have asked for and received special price considerations for amateurs that would not otherwise have been able to afford it so I know that it is not all about the money. There really is a catholic effort to make the benefits of attending available to all concerned.
That's great - but why is there this hierarchy in the 1st place? Why not make it affordable for everyone & not just a discount when you beg them to make things a little less for the average everyday webmaster?

Wanna come on the Radio Show tonight? (8-9 PM EST) We do have 2 other topics that we need to get taken care of on the show, but we can squeeze you in. Of maybe next show (Nov 29th as we're going to be on hiatus for 2 weeks due to the schedule of the Buffalo Sabres)

[docholly]

$250 a night for harrahs? OMFG that is silly.

Alex


CES Rates at Harrahs (http://www.cesweb.org/attendees/travel/hotel.asp)

[Greenguy]

After reading you're last post, let's shoot for you coming on the air with us Nov 29th after you've had a chance to talk to AVN about this stuff :)

[Far-L]

After reading you're last post, let's shoot for you coming on the air with us Nov 29th after you've had a chance to talk to AVN about this stuff :)


Thanks for the invite! Definitely count me in - I will see if I can get someone from Internext there to represent as well.

[Greenguy]

You assume I can get more than one person on the line at the same time - remember, I'm a lowly webmaster that only has 3-way calling :)

[Far-L]

Ok so far - in my mind, tell me if I am offbase - the landscape of this discussion lays out like this:

1. Cheaper prices, food, booths, rooms, etc.

2. Better communication with coordinators

3. Location

4. Proximity to other events

5. Access to sponsor events

6. seminars, roundtables, etc.

[Greenguy]

I'd just let them read this thread & the other one & let them make their own decisions :D

[Far-L]

You assume I can get more than one person on the line at the same time - remember, I'm a lowly webmaster that only has 3-way calling :)

lol, sorry... I know you wear a bunch of hats so I guess I just figured that you had a bunch of phone lines running around for each - you know like batman or get smart style...

If it is technically possible I could potentially offer our conf. line as a resource. wdyt?

[Linkster]

As far as the booths, I've never had one that was my own, but I've worked them for Condom/Netpond & Adult Netsurprise & I can honestly say that no one joined either board because of what me & my fellow webmasters were doing there at the booth. Plus working the booth sucks ass :D

That's great - but why is there this hierarchy in the 1st place? Why not make it affordable for everyone & not just a discount when you beg them to make things a little less for the average everyday webmaster?



Two great points GG - although on that first one keep in mind that when we were working the booth the only one that didnt have a hangover was MML :)

The hierarchy question is a great one - it was one of the points brought up right before the last Miami show as well due to the standard rate for everyone affecting the ability of sponsors bringing in "talent" - I believe that Aly tried to intercede with AVN on that question however I have no idea what ever happened - if I remember correctly some arrangement was made for the local hires to get in cheaper for specific hours during the day - remember you had to have a badge to get into the hotel for that show.

If AVN does "negotiate" rates for people that would greatly disappoint me as that would be a slap in the face to those webmasters that cant afford to go to their convention.

[MrMaryLou]

Two great points GG - although on that first one keep in mind that when we were working the booth the only one that didnt have a hangover was MML :)

Ok I am a sissy LOL I was too busy with boob hats :)

[Ramster]

Inform AVN that not all people in this biz make major bling each month. There are many webmasters that could benefit from going to a show and many sponsors that could benefit from seeing these webmasters (one of them could be the next 'who's who'). But a webmaster making a living at $2K-$5K/month really cannot afford to drop a lot of cash on going to Vegas.

[Linkster]

Ok I am a sissy LOL I was too busy with boob hats :)

Nahh - just the smarter one out of all of us :)

[Ramster]

CES Rates at Harrahs (http://www.cesweb.org/attendees/travel/hotel.asp)


SOLD OUT :(

[Useless]

Ok so far - in my mind, tell me if I am offbase - the landscape of this discussion lays out like this:

1. Cheaper prices, food, booths, rooms, etc.

2. Better communication with coordinators

3. Location

4. Proximity to other events

5. Access to sponsor events

6. seminars, roundtables, etc.
Let's not forget the timing of the event. It's a timing/location issue more than location or timing individually.

I don't wear many hats - I'm not a hat guy. (I think baseball caps should be reserved for baseball players and don't even get me started on the U.S. army's decision to give all soldiers black berets.) Anyway, I'm a lowly webmaster, perhaps lowlier than most. I've been doing this thing off and on for 3+ years and I still have not been inspired enough to lay down any amount of cash to go to one of these things.

From what I read, webmasters would receive the best results if AVN held Internext at any big Holiday Inn near a bunch of bars in the middle of nowhere. I understand why people are attracted to Vegas, but it does nothing for me. I don't gamble, I can't afford hookers and if I wanted to see flashing lights, I'd dial 911. Give me a clean bed that's within walking distance of where ever other folks are hanging out, and I'm good.

[Far-L]

Two great points GG - although on that first one keep in mind that when we were working the booth the only one that didnt have a hangover was MML :)

The hierarchy question is a great one - it was one of the points brought up right before the last Miami show as well due to the standard rate for everyone affecting the ability of sponsors bringing in "talent" - I believe that Aly tried to intercede with AVN on that question however I have no idea what ever happened - if I remember correctly some arrangement was made for the local hires to get in cheaper for specific hours during the day - remember you had to have a badge to get into the hotel for that show.

If AVN does "negotiate" rates for people that would greatly disappoint me as that would be a slap in the face to those webmasters that cant afford to go to their convention.

There is not a hierarchy - everyone is treated equally when it comes to right down to it - we had to do a booth and run special seminars on our tab to make it worthwhile for all. My point was simply that they were willing to work with us and went beyond just trying to line their own pockets with cash.

[Greenguy]

There is not a hierarchy - everyone is treated equally when it comes to right down to it - we had to do a booth and run special seminars on our tab to make it worthwhile for all. My point was simply that they were willing to work with us and went beyond just trying to line their own pockets with cash.But based on that statement, they did line their pockets with YOUR cash so that others could attend an affordable convention.

Sure, everyone's happy, but in the end, you paid the difference.

[Far-L]

But based on that statement, they did line their pockets with YOUR cash so that others could attend an affordable convention.

Sure, everyone's happy, but in the end, you paid the difference.


Nope, not with our cash either except for the booth which we tend to do anyway so that was no big deal.

The other money we raised to have a roundtable and they didn't see a dime of that - yet they did give us massive exposure including full page ads in the show guide - which means they were the ones putting out the money. So if you ask me that is proof positive that they are not all about the money.

[RawAlex]

Okay, here's my take... and I have seen both sides of the story:

Sponsors seem to forget that show attendance is what they are buying. The chance to meet webmasters that you might not otherwise reach, and get them to send traffic / trade traffic / exit links / do whatever business it is that you do. Without attendance, things really suck.

Without the RIGHT attendance, thing really suck. The last year I helped Fay run Adultdex, the attendance in Vegas wasn't very high, but we had a good group of people and business got done. It happened because we could offer a hotel at a decent price, and even with the last comdex running, vegas wasn't that expensive overall and not that crowded.

If you are going to do a big show, you need to get the biggest attendance, you have to make it worth the effort for people from all over the world to make the trip. AVN has proven conclusively that not enough people really want to go to sweaty Florida in August, and now they are starting to see that not as many people want to fight the crowds and spend the major bling to wrestle a hotel room away from a CES attendee.

Until the "winter" show moves from January, you cannot look at fixing the date of the "summer" show. Nobody wants to do two shows in a couple of months, not enough of the "general webmaster crowd" has the cashish to pay for a major hotel and airfare back to back (especially with the long reserve ahead times that these shows are starting to require). If you move the winter show to March (example) then you could easily move the "summer" show to the fall, say, first week of October? I think plenty of the northern types would be more than happy to shuffle off to florida (or similar sunny climes) for a show in October, and Vegas is a much more enjoyable place in March compared to January... airfares are cheap, hotels are plentiful, and no major holiday period is infringed on (don't do it at easter, that's all).

Back to the point. If AVN doesn't work their shows to bring people in the door, then the companies paying for the booths, the sponsorships, and the attention at the shows won't be seen, and the value of that booth or sponsorship drops in their mind. As companies shy away from having that booth, the show floor continues to drop. As the show floor drops, the value of the show badge drops, and AVN's income fades.

Fix the problem of how hard (and expensive) it is to attend the show, and the rest follows in line.

Alex

[Far-L]

Okay, here's my take... and I have seen both sides of the story:

Sponsors seem to forget that show attendance is what they are buying. The chance to meet webmasters that you might not otherwise reach, and get them to send traffic / trade traffic / exit links / do whatever business it is that you do. Without attendance, things really suck.

Without the RIGHT attendance, thing really suck. The last year I helped Fay run Adultdex, the attendance in Vegas wasn't very high, but we had a good group of people and business got done. It happened because we could offer a hotel at a decent price, and even with the last comdex running, vegas wasn't that expensive overall and not that crowded.

If you are going to do a big show, you need to get the biggest attendance, you have to make it worth the effort for people from all over the world to make the trip. AVN has proven conclusively that not enough people really want to go to sweaty Florida in August, and now they are starting to see that not as many people want to fight the crowds and spend the major bling to wrestle a hotel room away from a CES attendee.

Until the "winter" show moves from January, you cannot look at fixing the date of the "summer" show. Nobody wants to do two shows in a couple of months, not enough of the "general webmaster crowd" has the cashish to pay for a major hotel and airfare back to back (especially with the long reserve ahead times that these shows are starting to require). If you move the winter show to March (example) then you could easily move the "summer" show to the fall, say, first week of October? I think plenty of the northern types would be more than happy to shuffle off to florida (or similar sunny climes) for a show in October, and Vegas is a much more enjoyable place in March compared to January... airfares are cheap, hotels are plentiful, and no major holiday period is infringed on (don't do it at easter, that's all).

Back to the point. If AVN doesn't work their shows to bring people in the door, then the companies paying for the booths, the sponsorships, and the attention at the shows won't be seen, and the value of that booth or sponsorship drops in their mind. As companies shy away from having that booth, the show floor continues to drop. As the show floor drops, the value of the show badge drops, and AVN's income fades.

Fix the problem of how hard (and expensive) it is to attend the show, and the rest follows in line.

Alex


Thanks for the great input!

[Far-L]

More suggestions for locations and optimal months please - figuring that the shows need to be six months apart with a winter and summer event ideally...

[furrygirl]

More suggestions for locations and optimal months please - figuring that the shows need to be six months apart with a winter and summer event ideally...How about having the non-Vegas one anywhere but a humid tropical location in the hottest part of summer? |dizzy|

And: is Homegrown Video planning to offer discount amateur passes this year? :D

[MeatPounder]

Non Vegas one in Buffalo?

[Far-L]

Non Vegas one in Buffalo?


Umm... I have been to Buffalo - it is freezing fricking cold in the winter and almost as humid as Florida in the summer... lol, but I will add it to the list...

[Far-L]

How about having the non-Vegas one anywhere but a humid tropical location in the hottest part of summer? |dizzy|

And: is Homegrown Video planning to offer discount amateur passes this year? :D

We were planning on it.

Are you still in Seattle? I think it is a goshdurn travesty that we haven't gotten together yet up here.

Drop me a email and let's do lunch or something soon if you are in town still.

[SirMoby]

How about having the non-Vegas one anywhere but a humid tropical location in the hottest part of summer? |dizzy|

And: is Homegrown Video planning to offer discount amateur passes this year? :D
I think the last Phoenix Forum was larger then the Florida show and there ain't no humidity in AZ.

[emmanuelle]

I attended my first internext before I even launched my first website. We slept 6 to a room, paid for and attended the seminars, and fed ourselves at the free lunch buffet on the show floor. I was there to learn, and giddy with the excitement surrounding me. I was astounded by the 500 squarefoot bar in the middle of the room, as well as the number of people willing to help a newb get off the ground. Every one of those people is remembered & appreciated, some are still good friends today.


I met great people who helped me get going, shot content, and was exposed to advertisers while I was very impressionable. I came home with 30 t-shirts, a suitcase full of sponsor's promotional materials to study later, and an incalculable amount of motivation.

My trusty assistant Kassy also attended internext prior to launching her first website. She too scrimped and saved, knowing that the education she would receive over 4 days was invaluable. Neither of us has ever attended a Players Ball, we worked too hard to get there, to waste time partying, when we could be using our time much more wisely.


Nowadays this is impossible. Not only are beginners seemingly unwelcome, but they couldn't possibly manage to pull off such a trip on the cheap. Shows are becoming elite events, staged for a few big players to pat each other on the back, and be adored by the mid level wannabees.
I can't tell you how nauseated I was to hear someone tell me how his girlfriend was looking for a new company to rep, so that she could attend internext with him. That's all I see anymore, company 'reps'. Not hard working entrepreneurs, but those hired to smile pretty and handle damage control.

I'd like to see the shows return to their roots. Companies working hard to get my business, not just paying for boothspace to satisfy AVN's requirements. I'd like to see it made possible for beginners to attend and get the education they so desperately need. I'd like to see "our" show return to being about us, our specific needs, and unifying our industry. Lackluster support of valuable causes (2257, Acacia etc) clearly demonstrate the need for the industry to be brought closer together as one; but that one must include all of us.

[Far-L]

I attended my first internext before I even launched my first website. We slept 6 to a room, paid for and attended the seminars, and fed ourselves at the free lunch buffet on the show floor. I was there to learn, and giddy with the excitement surrounding me. I was astounded by the 500 squarefoot bar in the middle of the room, as well as the number of people willing to help a newb get off the ground. Every one of those people is remembered & appreciated, some are still good friends today.


I met great people who helped me get going, shot content, and was exposed to advertisers while I was very impressionable. I came home with 30 t-shirts, a suitcase full of sponsor's promotional materials to study later, and an incalculable amount of motivation.

My trusty assistant Kassy also attended internext prior to launching her first website. She too scrimped and saved, knowing that the education she would receive over 4 days was invaluable. Neither of us has ever attended a Players Ball, we worked too hard to get there, to waste time partying, when we could be using our time much more wisely.


Nowadays this is impossible. Not only are beginners seemingly unwelcome, but they couldn't possibly manage to pull off such a trip on the cheap. Shows are becoming elite events, staged for a few big players to pat each other on the back, and be adored by the mid level wannabees.
I can't tell you how nauseated I was to hear someone tell me how his girlfriend was looking for a new company to rep, so that she could attend internext with him. That's all I see anymore, company 'reps'. Not hard working entrepreneurs, but those hired to smile pretty and handle damage control.

I'd like to see the shows return to their roots. Companies working hard to get my business, not just paying for boothspace to satisfy AVN's requirements. I'd like to see it made possible for beginners to attend and get the education they so desperately need. I'd like to see "our" show return to being about us, our specific needs, and unifying our industry. Lackluster support of valuable causes (2257, Acacia etc) clearly demonstrate the need for the industry to be brought closer together as one; but that one must include all of us.

Wonderfully well spoken, and what my easterner upbringing would refer to as a "protestant" work ethic.

However, most of what you point to as the faults abundant today are not due to AVN/internext but due in my mind to the changes in the profit structure and power dynamic of today's adult internet. The big sponsors of yesteryear are not as opulant as those days of old. True, there is still a power elite, but most of the old kingpins had to completely change their show strategy due to competition for affiliates, number of shows yearly, and declining margins among other things.

Internext is deeply concerned with staying on top of what the industry needs. Tom is not there anymore but anyone who knows him or Renee personally knows that they sincerely want(ed) the show to be a useful resource to attendees at any end of the fiscal strata, a show for richer or poorer. I know Darren and Paul also feel the same way as well.

I disagree that people can't still do it like you, us, and others did it back in the day with room sharing, pass sharing, etc. I know that is still a fact of life for the go-getters but I also know what you are talking about with the show being full of useless reps that all are trying to sell the same thing to each other and no one having a shred of clout to make anything substantial happen except purchasing the next round of drinks at the bar.

I feel there is a great deal of value to having a forum and venue where everyone can come face to face. I also have seen time and time again the so-called noobs that come up to greatness, the great programs that fall in ruins, and everything in between; I feel internext is for better or worse a great bellweather of those trends as well.

There will always be room for improvement, no doubt. If nothing else, all I wish to accomplish here is proving that it is better to work with AVN/internext than work against them. They are not the enemy. They are a resource which is there for us and does want to increase our business. Their business is to increase our business not diminish it.

[furrygirl]

Are you still in Seattle? I think it is a goshdurn travesty that we haven't gotten together yet up here.

Drop me a email and let's do lunch or something soon if you are in town still.I have a lease until at least July 2006, so still "in town". :) I'm working on a fair chunk of backlog at the moment with my sites, but we should get together some time in the next couple of weeks.

[Far-L]

I have a lease until at least July 2006, so still "in town". :) I'm working on a fair chunk of backlog at the moment with my sites, but we should get together some time in the next couple of weeks.


We are planning a webmaster party up here (any around in the Pacific Northwest is welcome to attend) here in the near future. I will keep you posted.

[Far-L]

No more suggestions folks? We were on quite a roll there with the greivances... I would love more suggestions for times and places and panels that would be more worthy.

[mb]

I heard the Vegas airport HoJo was only $300 a night. That's a steal for a $20 roach motel.

;-)

The funniest thing to do is pull up something like Expedia and watch the rates change for Jan 5-8.

A shithole will be

$39 $39 $39 $39 $450 $450 $450 $39 $39

marc

[RawAlex]

It's actually very VERY likely that I don't go to the show at all this year... I really can't even start to justify almost 3k for 4 days in vegas... I can get a nice week vacation somewhere worth going for that :)

Alex