Anybody remember this thread?

[deleuze]

http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?t=19525&highlight=rape

or this one

http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?t=14370&highlight=rape

?

I wonder if their reception would be different if they skinned the board?

[Linkster]

I remember both of those quite well - its interesting however though to see what would happen if you come out and actually question the justification this time - Im not going to because Ive already heard it and Ive already made my decisions to not promote them.

[Extreme John]

Im sure Airek will be in here shortly to respond. Im curious Linkster your choosing not to promote the entire portfolio of sites because you personally are uncofortable with 1 of the sites out of 7?

[Linkster]

John - no offense meant at all - I'm not "comfortable" with two of the sites - and yes that will make my decision as to whether I promote a sponsor - a third site includes those two as "additional content" and without seeing inside the members area but knowing the standard practices today of most programs - I would imagine those sites are also included on the inside of all of the other sites.

Believe me its not a comfort issue - to me its a justification issue for me to deal with between me and my surfers - while there is one site that I would love to promote and would probably be doing a couple sales a day - the others keep me from adding it to my portfolio.

Ive also already heard a bunch of justifications this morning which some I agree with, some I disagree with and unfortunately the weighting right now is is the disagree column.

The funny part of the whole thing to me was (and the real reason I even responded to this thread) that the justifications used to me this morning were the same ones that the people in these threads posted here were using - and yet the people defending and giving the justifications this morning were the same people yelling BS at these other peoples justifications in the old threads.

[ponyman]

Ive also already heard a bunch of justifications this morning which some I agree with, some I disagree with and unfortunately the weighting right now is is the disagree column.


Did you hear these justifications on a board somewhere? I'd like to read them, too.

[Extreme John]

John - no offense meant at all - I'm not "comfortable" with two of the sites - and yes that will make my decision as to whether I promote a sponsor - a third site includes those two as "additional content" and without seeing inside the members area but knowing the standard practices today of most programs - I would imagine those sites are also included on the inside of all of the other sites.

Believe me its not a comfort issue - to me its a justification issue for me to deal with between me and my surfers - while there is one site that I would love to promote and would probably be doing a couple sales a day - the others keep me from adding it to my portfolio.

Ive also already heard a bunch of justifications this morning which some I agree with, some I disagree with and unfortunately the weighting right now is is the disagree column.

The funny part of the whole thing to me was (and the real reason I even responded to this thread) that the justifications used to me this morning were the same ones that the people in these threads posted here were using - and yet the people defending and giving the justifications this morning were the same people yelling BS at these other peoples justifications in the old threads.

Oh please understand, I am not offended, Ive always had a strict rule about how I do business or how I view how others do business. Im not here to judge anyone, nor would I ever take any judgments on me to heart, the only person I have to deal with on that level is my wife, children and family, beyond that anything I do follows those rules Business is Business not personal.

I respect your views, and by all means you have a right to do business in whatever fashion you choose, and I respect whatever fashion that might be.

[Linkster]

Did you hear these justifications on a board somewhere? I'd like to read them, too.

ponyman - no they were discussions with some other LL owners - not posted anywhere.

John - We've known each other for a long time and I kinda expected that you and I wouldnt have a problem with this :)

[XPorn]

I'm in the same boat with ya Linkster...

XPorn

John - no offense meant at all - I'm not "comfortable" with two of the sites - and yes that will make my decision as to whether I promote a sponsor - a third site includes those two as "additional content" and without seeing inside the members area but knowing the standard practices today of most programs - I would imagine those sites are also included on the inside of all of the other sites.

Believe me its not a comfort issue - to me its a justification issue for me to deal with between me and my surfers - while there is one site that I would love to promote and would probably be doing a couple sales a day - the others keep me from adding it to my portfolio.

Ive also already heard a bunch of justifications this morning which some I agree with, some I disagree with and unfortunately the weighting right now is is the disagree column.

The funny part of the whole thing to me was (and the real reason I even responded to this thread) that the justifications used to me this morning were the same ones that the people in these threads posted here were using - and yet the people defending and giving the justifications this morning were the same people yelling BS at these other peoples justifications in the old threads.

[Extreme John]

ponyman - no they were discussions with some other LL owners - not posted anywhere.

John - We've known each other for a long time and I kinda expected that you and I wouldnt have a problem with this :)

Nope even if I didnt know you there wouldnt be a need for a problem, business is business, as much as you want to sleep with me you cant have me, which means we dont have to be like that with each other |boobies| |pink |badidea|

[Linkster]

, as much as you want to sleep with me you cant have me, which means we dont have to be like that with each other |boobies| |pink |badidea|
Can we still at least share the same tanning bed |dizzy|

[MrYum]

John - no offense meant at all - I'm not "comfortable" with two of the sites - and yes that will make my decision as to whether I promote a sponsor - a third site includes those two as "additional content" and without seeing inside the members area but knowing the standard practices today of most programs - I would imagine those sites are also included on the inside of all of the other sites.

Believe me its not a comfort issue - to me its a justification issue for me to deal with between me and my surfers - while there is one site that I would love to promote and would probably be doing a couple sales a day - the others keep me from adding it to my portfolio.

Ive also already heard a bunch of justifications this morning which some I agree with, some I disagree with and unfortunately the weighting right now is is the disagree column.

The funny part of the whole thing to me was (and the real reason I even responded to this thread) that the justifications used to me this morning were the same ones that the people in these threads posted here were using - and yet the people defending and giving the justifications this morning were the same people yelling BS at these other peoples justifications in the old threads.
Apparently, this boat has at least 3 oarsman.

A couple of the sites look pretty good...a couple I wouldn't touch. Certainly not the first sponsor to push the edge too far...imo. No doubt, not the last either :(

Certainly doesn't do us any good as an industry when we portray the women as little more than cum receptacles.

[susanna]

Am I the only one questioning the "sleep assault" content? I am by far niave to the kinks of this world but kink is not assault. Where is the consentualism? How can it possibly pass the visa test? Wasn't Visa going nuts on stuff like this?

This on the same day that there is a thread/story out there on how Bush plans to attack rape and torture sites with the same tactics that they went after cp.

I find it hard to believe that gg and jim have chosen money over ethics on this one.

[Useless]

I merged the two threads. No point in multiple threads.

-UW

[susanna]

I merged the two threads. No point in multiple threads.

-UW


thanks UW I thought it was removed for a duplication and I started a more interesting thread (instead of copying it over).

[Chop Smith]

I find it hard to believe that gg and jim have chosen money over ethics on this one.

So is it the responsibility of Greenguy and Jim to censor sponsor content?

[Ms Naughty]

I'm going to stick my head above the battlements and say this:

The board look nice blue.
and
I will not be promoting RageCash due to the nature of the Sleep Assault site. I do not promote reality sites at the best of time and this particular site steps well over a line as far as I'm concerned. Anything that uses the word "assault" when it comes to sex is not promoting consensual sex.

The rest of you may do whatever you wish according to your own consciences.

Thank you, over and out.

[SirMoby]

I never liked the forced sites, drunk sites, tricked sites, skat and I don't like sex with animals. I know all that makes good money but I don’t like it and I don’t promote it. However, there are a lot of people that probably think I’m a sick bastard for profiting on naked women that obviously enjoy being naked for money.

For me to criticize the choice of others would be a bit hypocritical so I figure to each his own. There’s countless webmasters so no one needs me to make a buck and there’s also countless sponsors. I have a great deal of respect for GG, Jim and Extreme John and there’s nothing about Rage Cash that’s going to affect that.

[susanna]

I believe that there is way too many webmasters that blindly follow what trusted people like gg and jim do. They make it their business to have people following them and trusting their judgement. Dont fool yourselves, this board doesnt exist for the mindless posts of everyone that wants to say their morning hello's.

This board exists as a forum that attracts many people, most of which come here to hear industry news, to hear what others are up too and to learn from those trusted old timers (and at times newcomers).

When gg a jim condone something I feel is wrong I speak to them about it. Of course they do as they please but they are gracious enough to let me post to the contrary in the hopes that most of you out there will atleast think about what you are about to get yourself into. When I say gg and jim sold out for money, I also mean those of you out there marketing that site are also throwing ethics aside for money.

I always end posts like these (getting really tired of having to post about rape sites) with the question.....how would you like it if your wife/girlfriend/lover/sister/mother was fucked in her sleep because some guy thought that it was her fantasy?

Give me a break... there is only one type of person with that fantasy... the type is the person who likes NON-consentual sex.

When someone profits from a non-consentual rape site, even if its disguised as a reality fantasy site, I do not approve and I speak out.

You do what your own conscience says you should do.

[babymaker]

i don't believe in censorship or judging other's too much lol( if i hate a mutherfucker i hate them lol) but i too had a problem with that site when i saw the board change and checked it out just casually, i went again after all the controversy and watched the first free sample clip??? isin't that considered rape and illegal in most if not all states?? an unconcious girl being fucked against her will??? i understand it's fantasy but i can't promote that, i understand also that what i promote creampie can be considered by some to be immororal, but it is consensual, i don't want to be hated or blacklisted and i am not judging anyone, but to me it seemed not approriate. so while it seems as if we are voting here in a way, i put my vote for no, i am sorry, not like anyone needs my traffic :D but the line has to be drawn somewhere and while we are under extreme media scrutinty(while that should not be the reason!) it would seem this is an even worse time for a site such as this, not that i would believe that there ever would be one.

[SirMoby]

When I say gg and jim sold out for money, I also mean those of you out there marketing that site are also throwing ethics aside for money.
It always amazes me when people use the words "ethics" since it means so many different things. Is promoting a Couples Sex site where most of the models are NOT couples and they'll fuck any one for money ethical?

Does the same statement apply to you site as well?

Keep in mind I will not promote Rage Cash in any way but I see no reason to judge others for doing so. Aren't we all living in glass houses?

[susanna]

It always amazes me when people use the words "ethics" since it means so many different things. Is promoting a Couples Sex site where most of the models are NOT couples and they'll fuck any one for money ethical?

Does the same statement apply to you site as well?

Keep in mind I will not promote Rage Cash in any way but I see no reason to judge others for doing so. Aren't we all living in glass houses?


The reason to judge others for doing so is that its illegal. Do you promote rape sites? do you promote cp sites? all the same thing.

Is there any proof that the couples on my couples sex site are not couples? how do you know by looking at them that they are not? With regard to turning that statement around to the sleeping rape site, can you say the same thing?

My couples sex site is not hurting the industry anymore then the fake lesbian sites or the huge insertion or anal fuck sites....all done for money to apease someone elses kink. I draw the line at appeasing rapists kink.

Its against the law for good reason.


Whats next? reality porn that says its a great kink to fuck unsuspecting mentally retared people? There is a line, there has to be a line and its drawn BEFORE RAPE AND BEFORE CHILDREN OR INFIRM ADULTS. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

I am Canadian...the land of not judging anyone of anything but Canadians are not stupid...

[ArtWilliams]

I am Canadian...the land of not judging anyone of anything but Canadians are not stupid...

Both the sites would be considered illegal in Canada. The Sleep Assault would get the most attention because of the implied violence. -- art

[SirMoby]

The reason to judge others for doing so is that its illegal. Do you promote rape sites? do you promote cp sites? all the same thing.

Is there any proof that the couples on my couples sex site are not couples? how do you know by looking at them that they are not? With regard to turning that statement around to the sleeping rape site, can you say the same thing?

My couples sex site is not hurting the industry anymore then the fake lesbian sites or the huge insertion or anal fuck sites....all done for money to apease someone elses kink. I draw the line at appeasing rapists kink.

Its against the law for good reason.


Whats next? reality porn that says its a great kink to fuck unsuspecting mentally retared people? There is a line, there has to be a line and its drawn BEFORE RAPE AND BEFORE CHILDREN OR INFIRM ADULTS. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

I am Canadian...the land of not judging anyone of anything but Canadians are not stupid...
I noticed that you refused to answer the question about your own ethics. It's not very comfortable is it?

"Is promoting a Couples Sex site where most of the models are NOT couples and they'll fuck any one for money ethical?"

I'm continuing this discussion because I find it fascinating how people justify putting thier own values on others. I find myself sitting here wondering about Hilary Swank and everyone that was involved with the movie "Boys Don't Cry". I won't watch the thing because it's not my taste in movies but I don't think poorly of the people that did see it or created it. I'm thinking about your opinions on that movie.

BTW - I'm a professional. I own some of the same content that you do and I know some of the models that performed in it.

[Greenguy]

...I'm continuing this discussion because I find it fascinating how people justify putting thier own values on others....Two words: Republican Cocksuckers :D

[deleuze]

A few points:

1) The site in question is not illegal;
2) Many if not the majority of people who get off on rape fantasies are women;
3) The site in question unlike some others that have been discussed here before does a very poor job at appealing to those with rape fantasies as there is no confrontation, no struggle, and no realized violation. The only people who I can see it appealing to are misogynists with no active fantasy life.
4) Still nobody has answered the question why a person or company promoting something controversial will be either blindly ostracized or accepted into the community based on what the gods deem worthy. I came here for some lunch-time drama yesterday expecting everyone to tell this newest rage to fuck off and putting their sites on an elite blacklist. This was based on how I've seen you devour other people with similar sites. Insitead I discover people here have just a short of memory as all the idiots at other boards they love to disparage. Boring.

[Useless]

Fuck it - I didn't want to engage in this discussion because I see it going exactly no where. There are those who view Sleep Assault as fantasy, those who don't like it, but aren't going to lose sleep over it, and those who are going start mini-crusades over it. Not a single cocksucker reading any post of this thread is going change their mind. This thread is ass-fodder.

Read the first thread attached to the very first post of this thread and you'll see my feelings about rape and it's promotion through porn. Even the dumbest fuck out there will know that I will not promote any site that I feel is rape-related or insinuates rape. Hence - for those of you who need it spelled out - I will not promote (or link to) the site in question. Does this mean that I will abandon Rage Cash's complete portfolio? Hell no. If you feel that by promoting any of their sites, I'm promoting rape by default, well...fuck you. That's my opinion. Fuck you and fuck your mother and fuck your mother's mother AND your mother's father too.

Let me toss this sticky load in your freshly washed faces. Most teens cannot legally consent to sex. Thusly, we (the U.S.) have laws in place to protect teens from their own horrible libidos. I feel pretty strongly about the presence of certain teen content in this industry. I hate seeing teens in braces and teens holding teddy bears and typically won't accept galleries or sites which contain such content. I also don't accept the word 'young' used on a teen site. Why? Because a young teen is not a legal teen. I understand the fantasy, but don't wish to feed it. Does that mean that I've abandoned all sponsors who promote teens with braces? Fuck no.

Look at the laws those wacky-ass Canadians have created to protect those filthy BDSM kinksters from fucking each other while bound. Canandians cannot legally use content where anything is inserted into a bound person. It is viewed as non-concentual. The bound gimp could be screaming "Fuck my hairy ass you evil bitch", but in Canada it's illegal to fuck his hairy ass with your freshly lubed strap-on because he's bound. Does this mean that Canadian webmasters don't promote BDSM sites at all? No. They simply use content that doesn't have insertion. But wait - the paysite they're promoting most definately contains other pics and videos which would be deemed illegal in their hockey playing country. Hmmm...what could they be thinking? They're thinking about getting paid, just like the rest of filthy fucking no-good porn peddlers.

What am I attempting to convey through my nearly meaningless ramblings? I don't know. I lost track when I got the ugly vision of a bound dude getting banged from behind with a 12 inch rubber cock.

Anyway, discuss this all you want since some of you really like the sound of your own voice, or at least the appearance of your own words. Just be smart about who you are calling unethical sell-outs. Maybe a few of you could get together and pay the board's expenses so that advertising wouldn't be a necessity.

[Lemmy]

A fantasy is a fantasy is a fantasy. Comparing the site in question to rape sites and cp sites is way over the line IMO. The site doesn't condone or promote non-consensual sex, but a fantasy, and according to the experts it's a fantasy that's fairly common.

From http://mentalhelp.net/psyhelp/chap10/chap10r.htm
It comes as a surprise to some people that rape fantasies occur to about 24% of men and 36% of women (Knox, 1984, p. 283). Over 10% of women report that being forced to have sex is their favorite sexual fantasy (Doskoch, 1995). Remember, fantasies are not wishes! The rape fantasies of women may reflect a desire, not to be hurt, but to be attractive, to be passive, and to avoid the responsible for the sexual act.
Any healthy individual understands the difference between fantasy and reality, and while there are many fantasies that I personally find distaseful I'm not about to start policing peoples' thoughts. Suffice it to say that there are many - many - sites out there that I find far more objectionable than the site in question and I will make my choices on whom to promote based on my personal feelings in any given case.

On a final note; just because someone's ethics differs from yours, it doesn't mean they're unethical.

[Jan Barnes]

Lemmy,

I agree with some of what you are saying. However, I feel that a poor name was picked for the site.

By default, an assault involves physical contact with another person without their consent. Therefore, rape and assault are often used interchangeably.

I believe the sponsor should rethink the naming of the site and remove the reference to assault. By changing the name, the site could keep its focus on people who enjoy having sex while sleeping.

[deleuze]

Anyway, discuss this all you want since some of you really like the sound of your own voice, or at least the appearance of your own words.

You're talking to yourself again. Since you became a mod you've gone from a useless warrior to a useless lemming. Again this has nothing to do with ethics or personal tastes; it has to do with the way link list owners treat "outsiders." Will an advertiser and "friend of the family" be welcomed differently than a nobody? Did GG threaten to call the Florida State Troopers to report RageCash for running a rape site when he saw their portfolio? Did Jim say, sure you can advertise here but "You are truly the type of person that gives this business a bad name"? And finally we have the useless lemming who seems to have switched sides. For now he is asking for board members' silence and complacence when not too long ago it was the person with the "disgusting" content who was told to get lost; "But if you insist on attempting to defend your indefensble content, this could go on forever. You've nothing to gain here . . . if you want this discussion to go away, then you must go away." So it seems like the solution is for RageCash to disappear . . . but oh the advertising money . . . but that's not the issue . . . it's something deeper . . . have linklist owners proven to be commoners? . . . have they fallen off their high horse?

[Useless]

Lemmy,

I agree with some of what you are saying. However, I feel that a poor name was picked for the site.

By default, an assault involves physical contact with another person without their consent. Therefore, rape and assault are often used interchangeably. :) In my private conversations with various unnamed webmasters, that was my point exactly. Very, very, very, very bad name. Drop the assaut and you have something very different.

I'm not sure how you could actually get your cock into a sleeping person, since my wife wakes up and pushes me away if just rub her ass when she's trying to sleep. That doesn't keep me from pestering her of course.

On the other hand, I've been with women who may as well have been asleep during the act because I could get more reaction from a blow-up doll with a slow leak. I always assumed it was just me. |huh

[Useless]

You're talking to yourself again. Since you became a mod you've gone from a useless warrior to a useless lemming.Wrong again dipshit. I've always been this useless and I have considered GG&Jim as friends long before being given the massive power of resetting sigs.

If you'd like to come after me, attack my opinions and statements instead of staying on issue - bring it on cocksucker. My dick is big enough to stretch even something as gaping as your asshole. |blowkiss|

[Greenguy]

...Did GG threaten to call the Florida State Troopers to report RageCash for running a rape site when he saw their portfolio?...I think there is a HUGE difference between the Sleep Assault site & a site that promoted drugging a girl & then molesting her. And yes, I did post about calling his local police about his portfolio of sites, some of which included some wonderful CP domains. I never did follow up on that threat, but I did report a couple of his CP sites to ASACP |thumb

[Jan Barnes]

Useless Warrior,

Agreed. If a man can have sex with his girlfriend without her waking up, either he is very poorly equipped or lacking in some very basic skills. Alternatively, he might want to check his girlfriend for a pulse.

However, back to the main issue. If a sexual activity is done on a purely voluntary basis between adult individuals, I do not care if the fetish involves baloons, shoes, or sleeping people. However, it is only natural to object to any reference to assualt, rape, or other illegal activities.

There have been similar debates in the past with regard to teen sites, and I remember that Flashcash changed the name of one of their sites to remove a contentious reference from the title (apparently, this board does not even allow me to type this word, but the title of Nabokov's famous book may give you a good hint).

[Lemmy]

Lemmy,

I agree with some of what you are saying. However, I feel that a poor name was picked for the site.

By default, an assault involves physical contact with another person without their consent. Therefore, rape and assault are often used interchangeably.

I believe the sponsor should rethink the naming of the site and remove the reference to assault. By changing the name, the site could keep its focus on people who enjoy having sex while sleeping.I agree. The name gives associations that the content of the site doesn't.

[deleuze]

I think there is a HUGE difference between the Sleep Assault site & a site that promoted drugging a girl & then molesting her.

I just don't see it. If one can rape a girl without drugging her then there would be no need for drugs. The intent and result are the same.

"Alexa has been up for hours studying for some tests she will be taking in college, up for almost 36 hours straight Alexa ends up falling asleep. When she does her roomate comes in and does what he has always wanted to do to Anabelle"

"Amaera is out when this clown jumps through her bedroom window and really has his way with her"

"Tuesday wanted to catch a quick work out after talking on the phone, she's a little tired from her workout and ends up falling asleep. Than our joker enters the room, he goes through some of Tuesday's stuff than realizes he might be able to tough her without her knowing, when he realizes she is in a deep sleep he dicides to go for broke and screw her. Excellent fucking on unsuspecting Tuesday"

[Greenguy]

deluze - so the entire argument that they wake up & enjoy the sex OR that it's a dream the girl is having is not good enough for you?

[Greenguy]

A few points:

1) The site in question is not illegal;...
I was gonna try a different angle, but I just realized something. You don't have a problem with Rage Cash, do you?

You're problem is with Jim & me, correct?

[deleuze]

You're problem is with Jim & me, correct?

Not necessarily Jim & you but the way the board in general in the past has treated people affiliated with these types of sites. I really fail to see the difference between what RageCash is offering and other rape sites that have been around forever. The adult community and this board in particular has always gone out of their way to place the owners of these sites in the same class as pedophiles and now RageCash comes along and everyone is backing off saying well so long as it's legal to each his own . . . I'm not here to judge.

[sue-fl]

I believe that there is way too many webmasters that blindly follow what trusted people like gg and jim do. They make it their business to have people following them and trusting their judgement. Dont fool yourselves, this board doesnt exist for the mindless posts of everyone that wants to say their morning hello's.


I take offense to that statement! I have no friends or family that do what I do. To have a place to come and talk to other people in the porn business in great to me. Do I do every thing gg&jim suggest on the board? I say fuck you for even implying I would, I do have a brain and know how to use it.

Of course this board is here to make money!! Nothing wrong with that. People do take the time here to help and offer advice, they care about things going on in others lives. So money is NOT the only reason this board is so successful.

As far as comparing this new site with the old thread, that is wrong. No where on this site does it mention any one being drugged or passed out drunk. It's females that have fallen asleep. Think about that for a minute. I have gone to bed damn tired many a nights. There is no way in hell my husband could get me totally aroused and have sex with me without me waking up!!! This site does not imply that any girl wakes up and freaks out and says no and he continues to fuck her. Excuse me if I offend anyone by saying what I'm about to say. There has been hundreds of times in my 28 years of marriage that I have been woken to his tongue or cock in various places. Rape?? Damn I say wake me up like that anytime you want to!!

No drugs, no passed out drunks, no one waking up terrified and fighting off an assault. No issue as far as I'm concerned!!

[Useless]

Maybe it's my lack of beauty sleep, but I'm just now seeing the issue here. It appears that vast majority of use agree that Sleep Assault is a rape site. The text quotes from the site itself are pretty damning, there's no denying that. So the main argument must be the lack of reaction or criticism towards its owners. Some of you would like to see a complete outcry against Rage Cash for conceiving the site in the first place, perhaps a total ban of their program. I think you realize that that just isn't going to happen. Even if they were'nt a board sponsor, I doubt that everyone would be going nuts right now.

If it was a site that was peddling true assault pics instead of staged bullshit, yes - we would be screaming foul and contacting the police and tearing the program apart. But it's not. It's fake. It's twisted, but it's fake. I think there are some who don't perceive it as rape because the girls aren't struggling against it, but I disagree. Again, the site's own text says it all. Like I've said, I won't promote anything or accept listings to anything like that.

I more than understand why people would be pissed and outraged. I really do. The first time I saw it I too referred to it as a rape site. I showed it to my wife and she agreed, though she appeared to think the whole premise was cheesey.

I truly hope that the site owners reconsider the site now that they see the reactions to it, but if I abandoned every program that did things that nauseate me, I'd been broke a long time ago.

[Robbo]

I was`nt going to post when I saw this thread start but I guess I will. I was surprised when I saw the sites in question. Don`t like it and won`t promote it. But I won`t judge either. We have too much of that in this country at this time. Life imitates art and that would be some imitation we could do without. Then you could say the sites are art imitating life. But then they take that argument for cp too. I guess I`m just chiming in on the verbal poll.

[SirMoby]

Maybe it's my lack of beauty sleep, but I'm just now seeing the issue here.
Deleuze is pointing out that a similar site from a different program owner would probably get a totally different response.

Linkster pointed out that he has the freedom of choice and a good deal of respect for John.

John is pointing out that he likes Linkster and I truly expect them to exchange warm hugs, in a manly sort of way.

Susanna is pointing out that Canadians are smart and that her ethics are the right ethics.

Grandmascrotom is pointing out the blue does look nice.

GG is pointing out that Republican Cocksuckers come in many shapes, forms and nationalities.

Sue-FL is pointing out that she don’t like other people pushing their ethics on her.

Jan Barnes is pointing out that she agrees with UW and that somebody must have a small pecker.

UW, you’re pointing out that you can merge threads, your wife doesn’t let you touch her at night and that you need more sleep to be beautiful.

I’m trying to understand why one person feels the need to push their own ethics on to others.

I guess I just pointed out that I can read 39 posts in a thread and still miss the point everyone was really trying to make :)

[susanna]

The point I am trying to make is that there is a line and someone has to draw it somewhere. Since the debate years back agreed that the word YOUNG etc will only hurt the industry...what happened to those warriors? What happened to the people who could figure this stuff out and actually make a difference in the opinions of others that work this biz?

I believe that when I go to the doctor he isnt a quack because he has to answer up to an ethics board. He has to follow codes of conduct and ultimately he has to follow the law. He doesnt border on anything just because he might be able to get away with it. If he does he pays the price firstly from his governing body and secondly from the laws of the land.

If there isnt a law banning a site like this...lets keep putting them on the net so that someone will make one. I think thats a swell idea. If there isnt a bit of pride in what you do... that you provide legal and ethical porn for the kinksters, the horny and the weirdos....then go ahead and produce sites that clearly border or move over to the illegal side.

I think the teen issue is a great issue to bring up.

This is about one thing... consentualism. The site name and text implies that there is no consentualism. They havent even nailed the fantasy right. They have nailed non-consentualism.




|fart|


Deleuze is pointing out that a similar site from a different program owner would probably get a totally different response.

Linkster pointed out that he has the freedom of choice and a good deal of respect for John.

John is pointing out that he likes Linkster and I truly expect them to exchange warm hugs, in a manly sort of way.

Susanna is pointing out that Canadians are smart and that her ethics are the right ethics.

Grandmascrotom is pointing out the blue does look nice.

GG is pointing out that Republican Cocksuckers come in many shapes, forms and nationalities.

Sue-FL is pointing out that she don’t like other people pushing their ethics on her.

Jan Barnes is pointing out that she agrees with UW and that somebody must have a small pecker.

UW, you’re pointing out that you can merge threads, your wife doesn’t let you touch her at night and that you need more sleep to be beautiful.

I’m trying to understand why one person feels the need to push their own ethics on to others.

I guess I just pointed out that I can read 39 posts in a thread and still miss the point everyone was really trying to make :)

[Useless]

I guess I just pointed out that I can read 39 posts in a thread and still miss the point everyone was really trying to make :)Good point :D

[Ramster]

I'm pointing out that I am building and submitting and making money. Submitted 2 TGP galleries today so far and am going to work on a blog shortly while everyone is on here worrying about what SOMEONE ELSE is doing. |nahnah|

We all agree however that some sites have questionable content and/or site titles.

|deadhorse

[susanna]

By the way, since I like to see my own thoughts so much LMAO I will offer to John and any other owners to re-write their text... domain has to go though. No strings attached, if you dont like my texts and you dont think that they will sell you dont have to use them. If you really want to nail the sleeping beauty gets fucked niche (apparently its a fantasy of mostly women?) then let a few of us women re-write some of your tour text.

[deleuze]

I'm pointing out that I am building and submitting and making money. Submitted 2 TGP galleries today so far and am going to work on a blog shortly while everyone is on here worrying about what SOMEONE ELSE is doing. |nahnah|



I've come to the realization that what others do is far more interesting than what I do. I couldn't care less about the site as UW's wife put it best. I just like to see how others who obviously do have an interest in it (whether it be business or moral) handle being put on the spot. The collapse of a civilization is always much more entertaining and telling than the rise of one.

[Agent]

Debating is good but the hostility is creeping in.

I don't care for the three or four threads dedicated to it though. I've already made my decision on the issue.

[MrYum]

Debating is good but the hostility is creeping in.

I don't care for the three or four threads dedicated to it though. I've already made my decision on the issue.
Exactly |thumb

We all have our own views and are hopefully intelligent to make our own decisions.

Beyond that...it's |deadhorse

[susanna]

Exactly |thumb

We all have our own views and are hopefully intelligent to make our own decisions.

Beyond that...it's |deadhorse


I think I will go make another thread...let me see....what will I call it...

hmmm how about "multiple threads get more complaints then rape site"?

Official note...those of you that have already made up your mind, firm, no one is going to change it with views you may not have thought of....its not necessary to post that as we understand that to be a given.

Those that are still debating it and thinking about it, feel free to post something constructive.

[Ms Naughty]

Hmmm
A few final thoughts:

1. The board still looks good blue. Would be better if it was purple.

2. The money wins in the end. But then we're porn webmasters, so that's not surprising really. Everyone still makes their own decision according to their conscience. If people are happy to promote nasty shit like Bangbus, they're probably fine with this, and I think it's a bit of a shame, really. Ah well. I'll just continue to do what I do, everyone else will do what they do. I can only try to make my own part of the web more female-friendly and sex positive.

3. I'm also saddened by some of the misogynist comments I've read here and in other threads. Things got kind of nasty, and that's disappointing.

4. The issue is still CONSENT. Don't most of us operate under the idea that anything is OK as long as it's safe and consensual?

5. When Sleep Assault becomes "Sleep Fantasy" and the tour text makes it clear it's all a fantasy, and when the women in the pics are shown to wake up or have orgasms or be generally OK with it, well, then I'll be prepared to accept the arguments that fantasy is what the site is about. Until then, it's a rape site. There's no consent apparent, so it's sexual assault.

6. Either that or all those lovely sites with violence and guns pointed to the head are just "fantasy" sites as well. I'm not prepared to accept that argument, so that's where I stand with this whole thing.

7. Maybe it's all a good thing. These kinds of extreme sites will keep the conservatives happy with their obscenity charges, so the rest of us promoting consensual things might be left alone. Is it a vain hope? LOL

Right. I've posted when I really shouldn't have, now I'm going away for a few days.

Perhaps the board will be green again when I come back.
:)

[Agent]

I think I will go make another thread...let me see....what will I call it...

hmmm how about "multiple threads get more complaints then rape site"?

Official note...those of you that have already made up your mind, firm, no one is going to change it with views you may not have thought of....its not necessary to post that as we understand that to be a given.

Those that are still debating it and thinking about it, feel free to post something constructive.I take it you make the assumption that I am in disagreement with the point you're trying to make.

Even if I agree with you %100 my support is worth nothing because we disagree on the number of threads it takes to make a point.

I didn't know we had Republicans in Canada.

[Wenchy]

Okay, so I've read through this thread (and I think a couple of others that were related) and I've come up with the following:

1. It is not my place to decide what is ethical, moral, or proper for others. IMO, what some are labeling "unethical" should more correctly be termed "personally distasteful". I wasn't aware that the porn industry had developed a code of ethics... why didn't I get that memo, UW?... and even if one did exist, it certainly wouldn't be my job to enforce it. Those who support RageCash have their very good reasons for doing so, and those who don't... well, ditto. Add to the mix the issues of individual comfort zones and numerous unique business models, and the plethora of differing opinions shouldn't be suprising to anyone.

2. Do I think using the word "assault" in a massively-publicized porn site is a good idea? Do I think promoting a site by even remotely insinuating rape scenarios is a good idea? Do I think the sponsor in question would stand a snowball's chance in hell of standing up to legal and/or governmental scrutiny of their site? Not in the current political climate, no. But guess what... I don't have to pay their lawyers, so it's really none of my damned business.

3. I personally don't promote "vanilla" sites at all... teen, amateur, Asian... BOOOORING! That having been said, if I refused to use a sponsor simply because I possess that particular OPINION (keeping in mind that it is my right to run my business the way I see fit!), I'd have no one to promote at all, as I have yet to come across a sponsor who isn't busting at the seams with "vanilla"! I don't think it's right or fair to judge a sponsor simply by the content of one site, especially if they have others that really appeal to you or fit into your business model. Whatever each of us decides to to, it is a PERSONAL CHOICE, and there's really no logical reason to tell anyone else about it... all that does is put you in the unpleasant position of having to justify your reasoning and/or rationale.

4. I am comfortable with the idea that GG and Jim had their reasons for accepting RageCash as a board sponsor. Whether or not I agree with those reasons or their decision is a moot point... I don't pay their bills either. Oh yeah... and it's none of my damned business.

5. I've seen enough righteous indignation in this thread alone to last me a lifetime, but it's all based on emotion, personal opinion, and the above-mentioned comfort zones. To each his own, live and let live, blah blah blah. It's not like we as an industry have ever been able to agree on anything else... why should we be expected to start now? :D

NOTE: The fact that I did not indicate one way or the other my feelings regarding RageCash or their site was deliberate and I won't be elaborating on it further... see, you don't pay MY bills and it's none of your damned business! |thumb |devil|

[susanna]

I take it you make the assumption that I am in disagreement with the point you're trying to make.

Even if I agree with you %100 my support is worth nothing because we disagree on the number of threads it takes to make a point.

I didn't know we had Republicans in Canada.


I take it you think I was talking to you?

We could do this till New Years if you like. The pionts are what matters.

Good post Gramma

[susanna]

Ahhh but we have been able to agree on the words "young" "virgin" and anything with kids in it.

99% of the time we can also agree that rape is not acceptable.

The issue is whether the site in question is a rape site or not. It has nothing to do with imposing anyones ethics or ideas on others. It has nothing to do with wanting everyone to boycott the sponsor or all of the other sites.

It has everything to do with this one site crossing the line into something that not one person here agrees should be good for our industry.

No one pays my bills either but like it or not every other business out there has the potential to destroy my income in adult by making poor judgements. We stampede over someone that uses kids keywords (especially keys that attract kids that are not porn related etc) What is the difference with a site that pretends its not about rape and non-consentual sex?

Not sure what part of non-consentual you are not understanding Wenchy.







Okay, so I've read through this thread (and I think a couple of others that were related) and I've come up with the following:

1. It is not my place to decide what is ethical, moral, or proper for others. IMO, what some are labeling "unethical" should more correctly be termed "personally distasteful". I wasn't aware that the porn industry had developed a code of ethics... why didn't I get that memo, UW?... and even if one did exist, it certainly wouldn't be my job to enforce it. Those who support RageCash have their very good reasons for doing so, and those who don't... well, ditto. Add to the mix the issues of individual comfort zones and numerous unique business models, and the plethora of differing opinions shouldn't be suprising to anyone.

2. Do I think using the word "assault" in a massively-publicized porn site is a good idea? Do I think promoting a site by even remotely insinuating rape scenarios is a good idea? Do I think the sponsor in question would stand a snowball's chance in hell of standing up to legal and/or governmental scrutiny of their site? Not in the current political climate, no. But guess what... I don't have to pay their lawyers, so it's really none of my damned business.

3. I personally don't promote "vanilla" sites at all... teen, amateur, Asian... BOOOORING! That having been said, if I refused to use a sponsor simply because I possess that particular OPINION (keeping in mind that it is my right to run my business the way I see fit!), I'd have no one to promote at all, as I have yet to come across a sponsor who isn't busting at the seams with "vanilla"! I don't think it's right or fair to judge a sponsor simply by the content of one site, especially if they have others that really appeal to you or fit into your business model. Whatever each of us decides to to, it is a PERSONAL CHOICE, and there's really no logical reason to tell anyone else about it... all that does is put you in the unpleasant position of having to justify your reasoning and/or rationale.

4. I am comfortable with the idea that GG and Jim had their reasons for accepting RageCash as a board sponsor. Whether or not I agree with those reasons or their decision is a moot point... I don't pay their bills either. Oh yeah... and it's none of my damned business.

5. I've seen enough righteous indignation in this thread alone to last me a lifetime, but it's all based on emotion, personal opinion, and the above-mentioned comfort zones. To each his own, live and let live, blah blah blah. It's not like we as an industry have ever been able to agree on anything else... why should we be expected to start now? :D

NOTE: The fact that I did not indicate one way or the other my feelings regarding RageCash or their site was deliberate and I won't be elaborating on it further... see, you don't pay MY bills and it's none of your damned business! |thumb |devil|

[Halfdeck]

If this was a simple moral question of whether or not I should promote a rape site, the answer is clearly and easily no. But for many of us, that's not really the question. We're asking ourselves how much money will Rage Cash make me and is there anything to be gained by second-guessing other people's business decisions.

It's like asking people whether you should take a wallet someone else dropped stuffed with hundred dollar bills or report it lost to the cops. If you ask a beggar he'll tell you without hesitation you'll be crazy not to keep the money. If you ask a rich guy, he might tell you he won't even bother bending over to pick it off the ground.

As for me, I'll pass on Rage Cash. I have over 260 sponsors I'm signed up with and I have enough work as it is trying to promote just a handful of them.

[Linkster]

I don't think it's right or fair to judge a sponsor simply by the content of one site, especially if they have others that really appeal to you or fit into your business model. Whatever each of us decides to to, it is a PERSONAL CHOICE, and there's really no logical reason to tell anyone else about it... all that does is put you in the unpleasant position of having to justify your reasoning and/or rationale.
5. I've seen enough righteous indignation in this thread alone to last me a lifetime, but it's all based on emotion, personal opinion, and the above-mentioned comfort zones.

I put a little extra in the quote above (not in order) as two points you were making I think run along the same lines as what the original poster was trying to point out - the fact that the picking and choosing of what is "ok" sometimes tends to be a little hypocritical - and sometimes defies logic as well as brings out emotions and unpleasentness that shouldnt really be a part of the discussion - almost with a "crowd effect"

I can think of additional cases where this happened involving a sponsor that has many paysites but one tended to rub some the wrong way - so they chose to not push that sponsor as well as be rather nasty to their rep here - and yet now they are shocked when it happens to one of their own sponsors.

The choices you mention will always be an option to everyone no matter what some would have you believe - but I have to agree with the original post's point and think it would be a good time to reevaluate how certain people approach their discussions - not saying that speaking your mind is a wrong thing (I would be awfully hypocritical myself if I said that LOL) but coming out swinging with little or no respect for board members is not something I would want to be remembered for.

[DannyCox]

It really comes down to "promote what you are comfortable promoting".

Over the years, I have had a large conscience on my shoulder...that conscience's name is Carol! Unlike many here, all we have every really promoted is "Vanilla Sex", mainly of the Amateur variety, and have done very, very well with it. Luckily, we never had the need to promote the more Gonzo stuff out there.

Because of Carol, we have rarely promoted "Teen Sites" (although, in honesty, I have slipped a few in as favours to friends) as she just isn't comfortable promoting girls under 21. Again, that is her choice. We would not promote the RageCash site in question, but I wouldn't tarnish their entire program due to one website either. As the old saying goes, "To each his/her own", and we do what we are willing to do, for ourselves.

Jim & GG can't be held accountable for anything here. They are promoting a program, and not the individual websites. It really isn't their job to police all the sites, as we are all big people who can make our own decisions. It's up to the webmasters to decide what sites, if any, they are willing to promote.

[Jim]

Danny
Has Carol ever done any fantasy sleep sex stuff? Just curious...

[stuveltje]

all have their own choise(did i write that right) to promoot what they want nobody is forched to promoot stuff they dont wanna promoot, nobody is the same, your happy with what you promoot well do it, who cares what others think? Not happy wtih what an other person promoot? Thats their choise....live and lett live( i am sure i write that wrong i think..so i am not sure:D)

[DannyCox]

Danny
Has Carol ever done any fantasy sleep sex stuff? Just curious...

The only thing we ever did involving "sleep" is a Short Story pictorial where Carol was "dreaming" about a Lesbian Orgy ;)

Other than that, no, we never have.

I do want to point out that personally, I am not against most things, even things that just don't work for me. As long as it fits within my personal moral code (which is different for us all), I'm fine with whatever anyone else is doing. I fully understand the eroticism of "Fantasy Rape", as we have played that game ourselves, and with other people. And like Jim, I have also "snuck a poke" while Carol was sleeping. ;)

My main concern about all this is legalities. In the US, you have to deal with 2257, in Canada, we have to deal with images of "non-consensual sex". Ultimately, everything we do, either in life or with our websites, comes down to personal choice.