Index doorway trick (or some magic :)

[SortLinks]

To the attention of LL owners and posters!

Looks like some sly guys who post free sites to SortLinks,
begin to use very simple technique to generate doorways.

Theoretically
".. One can put 2 indexes: index.htm and index.html in one folder and then in .htaccess
set any of these pages as default page for the folder... so someone's recips (on the other page) will got off"


Example:
http://www.japamor.com/sites/teen/teenblondefingering/index.htm
See the page google indexes :
http://216.239.59.104/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2003-35,GGLD:en&q=cache:http%3A%2F%2Fwww.japamor.com%2Fsites%2Fteen%2Fteenblondefingering%2Findex.htm
Sortlink's recip is out there :)

some of those guys use this trick to google-cache their own page instead of recips page
http://www.thepantyhose.ws/foot-jobs/index.htm (see google cache)...and all of his free sites.


To free site posters: These are doorways. Please DO NOT use such technique
PLEASE USE structure like that:
domain.com/site1/d1/index.html,main.html, gallery.html ,gallery2.html
domain.com/site1/d2/index.html,main.html, gallery.html ,gallery2.html
domain.com/site1/d3/index.html,main.html, gallery.html ,gallery2.html

To Link List owners: Check your listed sites, I think you may find these examples easily at your LL. :(
Please watch carefully and post cheaters there...

[Joe]

Hm, interesting.

Nice catch too.

[MadMax]

for what it's worth, the assfuck who owns thepantyhose.ws is blacklisted by me as well as all his other domains. This is just the latest on him. Do a board search and you'll come up with a thread or two in "cheaters" :)

[Kinky]

it isn't a trick, it has been posted here numerous times to put recips on .htm and .html because every list is starting to demand that they are on an index page... if there are both index.htm and index.html files in the same directory .html is the default and that is what google caches

[Mr. Blue]

because every list is starting to demand that they are on an index page

Just curious, how does someone submit to multiple LL's then? Duplicate the page and put it in a new folder? I don't do freesites anymore, but was curious about the process :D

[Mishi]

|yawn|

[Useless]

Just curious, how does someone submit to multiple LL's then? Duplicate the page and put it in a new folder?
I think the best way is the example given in the post which started the thread:

domain.com/site1/d1/index.html,main.html, gallery.html ,gallery2.html
domain.com/site1/d2/index.html,main.html, gallery.html ,gallery2.html
domain.com/site1/d3/index.html,main.html, gallery.html ,gallery2.html

You would have one set of images in the site's main directory, referred to as 'site1' above. Then you'd make copies of the html pages, put them in subdirectories, and link to the images in the main directory. Some people copy only the index page and put it in a subdirectory, then link it back to a single main page, but jumping directories can get you rejected at some lists. There are, of course link lists that you'll want to put on the sites true index because of the value of their traffic, or it's abundance.

[Mr. Blue]

I think the best way is the example given in the post which started the thread:

domain.com/site1/d1/index.html,main.html, gallery.html ,gallery2.html
domain.com/site1/d2/index.html,main.html, gallery.html ,gallery2.html
domain.com/site1/d3/index.html,main.html, gallery.html ,gallery2.html

You would have one set of images in the site's main directory, referred to as 'site1' above. Then you'd make copies of the html pages, put them in subdirectories, and link to the images in the main directory. Some people copy only the index page and put it in a subdirectory, then link it back to a single main page, but jumping directories can get you rejected at some lists. There are, of course link lists that you'll want to put on the sites true index because of the value of their traffic, or it's abundance.


Ah, I see. So why wouldn't you submit to the top 12 lists only? If you submit to say 120 linklists, putting 12 LL's Recips per page, you're creating 10 duplicate pages and would probably end up getting hosed in the SE's for the duplicate page penalty?

I've noticed this with my tgp gallery pages, I used to SEO all the pages and use text sales pitch. They do get indexed in google, but I get killed because of the the fact there's x number of duplicate pages created.

Sure reducing the LL's to the top 12 would cut down on the initial burst of traffic, but wouldn't it help you in the long run in SE traffic if you did that?

[Useless]

I agree, Mr. Blue. That's one of the reasons that I only submit to the amount of link lists that I can fit on a single index. The other reason is laziness. At the same time, I wouldn't suggest my business plan to anyone, unless I didn't like them. ;)

[Mr. Blue]

I agree, Mr. Blue. That's one of the reasons that I only submit to the amount of link lists that I can fit on a single index. The other reason is laziness. At the same time, I wouldn't suggest my business plan to anyone, unless I didn't like them. ;)

:D That makes complete sense. I guess if you really wanted to you could make the duplicate pages "no index" in the meta tags, but that would be kinda sleazy and unfair. So, less is more in the long run.

[ronnie]

Others would argue, the more "different" link backs you have is better. 120 links from 120 different urls is better than 12. So they say...:)

ronnie

[Mr. Blue]

Others would argue, the more "different" link backs you have is better. 120 links from 120 different urls is better than 12. So they say...:)

ronnie

I wonder if the 120 linkbacks would negate the duplicate page penalty. I'm thinking it wouldn't...I guess you could always change the index page enough so it wouldn't be an exact duplicate. Say, change the alt tags and the warning for entering the site might be enough to remove that penalty.

[ronnie]

I wonder if the 120 linkbacks would negate the duplicate page penalty. I'm thinking it wouldn't...I guess you could always change the index page enough so it wouldn't be an exact duplicate. Say, change the alt tags and the warning for entering the site might be enough to remove that penalty.

Course thats a very big question, how much in similarity is duplicate? According to SE's. Probably something that does'nt have a accurate answer.

ronnie

[ronnie]

To the attention of LL owners and posters!

Looks like some sly guys who post free sites to SortLinks,
begin to use very simple technique to generate doorways.

Theoretically
".. One can put 2 indexes: index.htm and index.html in one folder and then in .htaccess
set any of these pages as default page for the folder... so someone's recips (on the other page) will got off"


Example:
http://www.japamor.com/sites/teen/teenblondefingering/index.htm
See the page google indexes :
http://216.239.59.104/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2003-35,GGLD:en&q=cache:http%3A%2F%2Fwww.japamor.com%2Fsites%2Fteen%2Fteenblondefingering%2Findex.htm
Sortlink's recip is out there :)

some of those guys use this trick to google-cache their own page instead of recips page
http://www.thepantyhose.ws/foot-jobs/index.htm (see google cache)...and all of his free sites.


To free site posters: These are doorways. Please DO NOT use such technique
PLEASE USE structure like that:
domain.com/site1/d1/index.html,main.html, gallery.html ,gallery2.html
domain.com/site1/d2/index.html,main.html, gallery.html ,gallery2.html
domain.com/site1/d3/index.html,main.html, gallery.html ,gallery2.html

To Link List owners: Check your listed sites, I think you may find these examples easily at your LL. :(
Please watch carefully and post cheaters there...


Japamor posts here, maybe he'll reply?

ronnie

[Mr. Blue]

Course thats a very big question, how much in similarity is duplicate? According to SE's. Probably something that does'nt have a accurate answer.

ronnie

The warning text on most freesites is pretty lengthy though...if you came up with enough variations you might do alright into tricking the spiders.

[japamor]

Hi All
I've already swapped several Emails with Sortlinks over this. I thought that using index.html and index.htm was just normal practice. I certainly didn't realise that Google always defaulted to the .html.

I presume then that .htm sites have no real use to Free Site makers?
All I can say is that in future all my sites will be on a true index. My apologies to LL owners who've been on my .htm sites.
We live and learn.
japamor

[airdick]

I wonder if the 120 linkbacks would negate the duplicate page penalty. I'm thinking it wouldn't...I guess you could always change the index page enough so it wouldn't be an exact duplicate. Say, change the alt tags and the warning for entering the site might be enough to remove that penalty.

Once the page is full of different recips links it's no longer a duplicate, right?

[Mr. Blue]

Once the page is full of different recips links it's no longer a duplicate, right?

Now there's a thought...hmm, interesting.

[Mcbethar]

Once the page is full of different recips links it's no longer a duplicate, right?
Here you got an useful tool (posted by PointingPercy on another thread on the SEO forum) to see if your site may be falling victim to the Google duplicate content filter. Apparently a duplicate rating of 75 - 80% is pretty bad news for your SEP's.
http://www.webconfs.com/similar-page-checker.php - Duplicate content tool.
Hope it helps ;)

Mcbethar |peace|

[Mr. Blue]

Here you got an useful tool (posted by PointingPercy on another thread on the SEO forum) to see if your site may be falling victim to the Google duplicate content filter. Apparently a duplicate rating of 75 - 80% is pretty bad news for your SEP's.
http://www.webconfs.com/similar-page-checker.php - Duplicate content tool.
Hope it helps ;)

Mcbethar |peace|

TY, looks like a good way to check.

[airdick]

Here you got an useful tool (posted by PointingPercy on another thread on the SEO forum) to see if your site may be falling victim to the Google duplicate content filter. Apparently a duplicate rating of 75 - 80% is pretty bad news for your SEP's.
http://www.webconfs.com/similar-page-checker.php - Duplicate content tool.
Hope it helps ;)

Mcbethar |peace|


Assuming that the tool actually reflects Google's reality, the more text-based recip tables you use on your mirrored warning pages the better.

[Wenchy]

I was under the apparently-misguided impression that mirrored index pages for LL submissions were standard practice. I know that certainly used to be the case, and at one time all of the big WM boards taught that as a matter of course (some still do).

Granted, I've been out of the loop for awhile and things may have (probably have) changed while I was away... |dizzy|

[SortLinks]

The warning text on most freesites is pretty lengthy though...if you came up with enough variations you might do alright into tricking the spiders.

Yeah,
The best may ever is to use the structure of first post, and modify each doorway's main and gallery pages by hand (pretty much of code-jerking :)

But as long as every singly index page is filled with diffrent recips this example alone serves well.

[Jeremy]

Google has this URL in it's DB & look at the "Google Cache of":

http://www.japamor.com/sites/teen/teenblondefingering/

which would be whatever the default index page is on the server.

My guess is Google's trying to be "intelligent" about people looking for blah.com/ndex.html or blah.com/index.htm and defaults to blah.com/ if it has it.

[docholly]

I was under the apparently-misguided impression that mirrored index pages for LL submissions were standard practice. I know that certainly used to be the case, and at one time all of the big WM boards taught that as a matter of course (some still do).

Granted, I've been out of the loop for awhile and things may have (probably have) changed while I was away... |dizzy|


nope..i agree.. chances are there is more traffic generated by the .htm pages to the recepts listed on it than there is to the html pages listed in google.

of course this has been a topic of OTB on several occassions.. and perhaps those who aren't quite familiar with the html/htm concept should make a point in attending.

and if the theory is that you have to be on the HTML page to get listed, i think quite a few of the smaller medium sized LL will see a decrease in submits which decreases traffic.

Think bookmarkers, think link pop, think updated PR value.

play to your audience not the google gods.

[neveremail]

Looks like another difficult choice.

Probably changing the text on the different doorway pages is the best method. Just means the whole making and submitting process will be longer |yawn|

But i suppose it means both LLs and SEs are happy. (well i guess SEs wont be happy but their spiders should not notice). Just more work for free site creaters. |cry|

[SortLinks]

Google has this URL in it's DB & look at the "Google Cache of":

http://www.japamor.com/sites/teen/teenblondefingering/

which would be whatever the default index page is on the server.

My guess is Google's trying to be "intelligent" about people looking for blah.com/ndex.html or blah.com/index.htm and defaults to blah.com/ if it has it.

I think it caches default page.
the one that is first exist in .htaccees directive:

"Directory index index.html index.htm index.php "
and the one which of course appears after "/" by default

[SortLinks]

Looks like another difficult choice.
Just more work for free site creaters. |cry|

For fair free site creators I would say :)
Cheaters are not affected this way.

[neveremail]

For fair free site creators I would say :)
Cheaters are not affected this way.
I agree!

but i think (or would hope) that in the end fair free site creaters will get thier reward. Link lists and SEs hate cheaters and try to get rid of them - they may get away for it for a while but its short lived and if they focused as much time on trying to make a genuine site rather than how to trick SEs and LLs they would do better

Just my two cents (but going off on a tangent a bit)

[SortLinks]

Another guy played with sortlinks.com :)
http://www.free-nudrelds-links.com/foot-jobs/nylon/index.html (default, cached, no recip)
http://www.free-nudrelds-links.com/foot-jobs/nylon/index.htm (doorway recip but not cached)
do you know him?
here is his msg after my request:
"Hi!
I have two pages such as index.htm and index.html with different
recips. Why the google shows other page, I don't know. I have usual
free site and scriptless hosting. Write me, if you don't want to work with me, and my software remove all your recips. Did you check my other sites?"

guys, any comments?

[neveremail]

Seems to me like an intentional way to cheat. Dont waste your time with it, band him and move on, there are plenty of genuine submitters out there.

[Jel]

I have posted a couple of times now and killed all threads I have posed the question - mirrored directories - ok so the index is changed with recips etc. but theres still at least another 3 pages in that folder that are being duplicated exactly many times over if for example you sub to 200 LLs.

What is the reasoning that all html must be in the same folder? Why can the mirrored directories not contain only the index.html and link to the original mainpage? On a freesite no-one links back to the warning page from the main or gallery pages, so I can't work out what the benefits or reasoning that all html must be in the same folder and cant just jump from

/freesite/foldera/index.html
/freesite/folderb/index.html
/freesite/folderc/index.html
/freesite/folderd/index.html
back to

/freesite/mainpage.html

If it's because of something to with more content in the same folder, then wouldn't google penalise for the dupe pages in those folders and thus penalise the folder itself, making that concept flawed? What am I not seeing or just plain ignorant on :D

Anyone able to enlighten me before I go nuts lol ?

[RawAlex]

My idea is this:

If you want to submit to 120 link sites, make 10 folders. Copy your entire site (less the images) into each folder. Now, change the return links in 9 of them, and also change the meta tags, title tags, and perhaps use a different warning text on each one. Always use different warnings with different returns (so they are not the same over and over on different domains).

ta-da. You now have 10 completely different sites without all that much effort, and they are all different, and google will likely pick up every one of them.

Think past the end of your nose.

Alex

[RawAlex]

I have posted a couple of times now and killed all threads I have posed the question - mirrored directories - ok so the index is changed with recips etc. but theres still at least another 3 pages in that folder that are being duplicated exactly many times over if for example you sub to 200 LLs.

What is the reasoning that all html must be in the same folder? Why can the mirrored directories not contain only the index.html and link to the original mainpage? On a freesite no-one links back to the warning page from the main or gallery pages, so I can't work out what the benefits or reasoning that all html must be in the same folder and cant just jump from

/freesite/foldera/index.html
/freesite/folderb/index.html
/freesite/folderc/index.html
/freesite/folderd/index.html
back to

/freesite/mainpage.html

If it's because of something to with more content in the same folder, then wouldn't google penalise for the dupe pages in those folders and thus penalise the folder itself, making that concept flawed? What am I not seeing or just plain ignorant on :D

Anyone able to enlighten me before I go nuts lol ?


Jel, a bunch of doorways that lead to a single inside site would almost certainly (1) piss google off, and (2) lead to little or no return traffic to the link sites giving you the links.

It is normal that only the root doorway will be listed, not the other doorways. So the guys on the other doorways get, well, weak soup.

Alex

[Bill]

If you guys think google is fooled by having the same site in different folders with indexes, you are nuts.

Fuck all you little linklist owners with your wacky rules and your ego trips.

Next month you'll want a blowjob with your submission, for your crappy hit a day.

[Useless]

I think I'm getting to be known as pretty damned anal as far as reviewing and declining for minor shit goes, but I pay very, very little attention to directory structure and page naming schemes. I don't see the big deal here. I review for the surfer first. If the surfer is happy, the list will grow.

[neveremail]

I've found that with each mirror in its own complete directory and changing the text completely on all pages in each page of the freesite (meta tags, title, content on pages, the lot) that I still got hit hard for duplicate content. To be fair its only one site so only expect one result in SEs for it. I decided it was best to spend the time making new freesites.


I dont really know why the LL owners want wach site in thier own directory I just do it. But I would really like to find out why.

[DJilla]

I've found that with each mirror in its own complete directory and changing the text completely on all pages in each page of the freesite (meta tags, title, content on pages, the lot) that I still got hit hard for duplicate content..

IMHO this isn't possible. If your really doing what you describe above then you no longer have duplicate pages... bottom line. Spiders only see what you give them they aren't psychic.

[DJilla]

IMHO this isn't possible. Spiders only see what you give them they aren't psychic.

Let me correct this, the only remote possibility (remote) that you're getting hit for dup content would be because your not changing the alt tags. Since a freesite is mostly pics on the content side, try changing those too. Will also give you a chance to experiment with new keywords.

[neveremail]

Let me correct this, the only remote possibility (remote) that you're getting hit for dup content would be because your not changing the alt tags. Since a freesite is mostly pics on the content side, try changing those too. Will also give you a chance to experiment with new keywords.
That is true - I dont think I did change the alt tags. Still I think its best just to spend the time making a new freesite rather than changing the text, meta tags, alt tags etc on a number of different mirrors.

[ArtWilliams]

Some people copy only the index page and put it in a subdirectory, then link it back to a single main page, but jumping directories can get you rejected at some lists.

I did that recently and got turned down at several big lists and I have decided to go back to having multiple directories. As a free site builder I want to standardize my work and make my templates easy to use and not have to change them all the time. It's easier just to put everything in a directory and duplicate it as UW shows.

---art

[Sean416]

If you guys think google is fooled by having the same site in different folders with indexes, you are nuts.

Fuck all you little linklist owners with your wacky rules and your ego trips.

Next month you'll want a blowjob with your submission, for your crappy hit a day.

I agree.

I dont think index.htm/index.html is a big deal at all. I mean what's with all u Link List owners who think being on a mirror page is so terrible? You really expect these submitters to put you on an index if you're sending minimal traffic? When I used to submit freesites I would do it like this:

freesite/index.html
freesite/index.htm
freesite/warning.html
freesite/warning.htm
freesite/enter.html
freesite/enter.htm

freeesite/main-page.html

freesite/gallery-1.html
freesite/gallery-2.html

there's nothing wrong with the above.

http://www.unlimitedfreegalleries.com/FreeSites/big-booty-hoes/

http://www.unlimitedfreegalleries.com/FreeSites/big-booty-hoes/disclaimer.htm

They're both cached, they both received traffic and they're both giving the surfer what they want. Anybody who owns a LL that isn't hoes.com, link-o-rama.com, penisbot.com etc and always want to be on an index is dilusional IMO and people will just stop submitting to you, rather then change how freesites are made.

[neveremail]

I agree.

I dont think index.htm/index.html is a big deal at all. I mean what's with all u Link List owners who think being on a mirror page is so terrible? You really expect these submitters to put you on an index if you're sending minimal traffic? When I used to submit freesites I would do it like this:

freesite/index.html
freesite/index.htm
freesite/warning.html
freesite/warning.htm
freesite/enter.html
freesite/enter.htm

freeesite/main-page.html

freesite/gallery-1.html
freesite/gallery-2.html

there's nothing wrong with the above.

http://www.unlimitedfreegalleries.com/FreeSites/big-booty-hoes/

http://www.unlimitedfreegalleries.com/FreeSites/big-booty-hoes/disclaimer.htm

They're both cached, they both received traffic and they're both giving the surfer what they want. Anybody who owns a LL that isn't hoes.com, link-o-rama.com, penisbot.com etc and always want to be on an index is dilusional IMO and people will just stop submitting to you, rather then change how freesites are made.
I think its best to do it the standard way with the html from each mirror site in its own directory.
I use advanced submitter (http://refer.ccbill.com/cgi-bin/clicks.cgi?CA=920094-0000&PA=spam) to help make the mirrors which makes it pretty easy. It takes me about 5 extra mins to do it that way. So for 5 minutes work why cut off all that extra traffic and linkbacks from the smaller link sites.

I'm not to sure why they have the rule but its their site, I want the link backs and traffic (however small it is) so I follow their rules. That extra five mins of effort really is worth it for those extra link backs and traffic. Submitting to the smaller LLs atleast triples my total traffic compared to just submitting to the top 10.

[SortLinks]

Sean.... I wont argue with you..Do it if you wish..:)
But these LLs have rules and its easy to follow em :)
Upon my experience ... artwilliams is right.
Just try
site1/folder1
site1/folder2
site1/folder3
you will be surprised getting accepted much faster and more often :)
Dont be surprised if your cached pages will lose PR very soon as well as index. (see below)

BTW the second page does not seem to be cached for me already:)
Besides..Your recip "More Porn For Me!" on these pages reminds me sortlinks'...AND I dont think it is a coincidence :)))

What do you say?

[SortLinks]

nevermail...words of wisdom.

[DJilla]

I think it caches default page.
the one that is first exist in .htaccees directive:


Though I only have recently starting posting, I've been around this biz for more than year watching, learning, listening. Here are a couple thoughts with all due respect to those it affects.
Its an old bitch between submitters and LL's who want to be on the index.html page. Other than about 12 - 15 LL's, most don't DESERVE to be on the html page... period and those that INSIST on it are petty. Check your server records and if they don't send traffic ask for hardlink exchange somewhere and DUMP them saving yourelf time on the submits they'll come around eventually.
If a LL on its rules page insists on index.html placement, he gets what he asks for, and then the submitter is clever enough to use htaccess to get around it (I would never do this and I really don't know why anyone would, where's the benefit, just piss people off?) then it seems to me a bargain was made and kept and there shouldn't be any crying later. A deal is deal. Stand up. Besides, a majority of webmasters I've seen (most new ones less than a year or so) don't even know what or how to use htaccess.
http://www.freewebmasterhelp.com/tutorials/htaccess/
More importantly think about the long term. Its not just clicks now, its PR later too. Any page with inbound links from decent sites is going to gain PR. I've done searches and often found several pages from the same site in the results. I almost always check these out on the thought that there must be something there if so many pages are indexed (they will be indexed if you change your content around and work keywords). PR benefit accruses to the LL' too regardless where the pages are or what they end in and actually PR benefit to an LL is greater because the inbound link is usually focused on a category page.
Finally, for submitters making doorwways, I recommend making them logical and intuitive:

yoursite/teens/jan/
yoursite/anal/feb/

or

yoursite/tits/0065a
yoursite/milfs/0065b

and then sticking an index page into the
teens, anal, tits, milfs, directory. This is because surfers (especially porn surfers) are pretty clever themselves and if they like your pages they'll keep digging and just delete off the page id and try and peek into the directory. Your index will come up and you can keep them longer and maybe sell them.
Finally, its really about your site 'cause they'll check that out too and if its quality maybe even bookmark it and come back, and back. I've found that really most of my sales come from my site pages which brought surfers in from a free site submit.
You don't have to and shouldn't just rely on free site sales. If you're not equipped to be here for years then you shouldn't even try. Properly contstructed doorway content (all pages except maybe the pics directory) should be in its own directory, new text, reordered keywords, etc. because there is also going to be a "content size" benefit from the SE's regardless of the placement of that particular page in search. In otherwords you will get a slight ding of your overall sites importance from SE's on the basis of your total site size. IMHO

|jackinthe

[neveremail]

Though I only have recently starting posting, I've been around this biz for more than year watching, learning, listening. Here are a couple thoughts with all due respect to those it affects.
Its an old bitch between submitters and LL's who want to be on the index.html page. Other than about 12 - 15 LL's, most don't DESERVE to be on the html page... period and those that INSIST on it are petty. Check your server records and if they don't send traffic ask for hardlink exchange somewhere and DUMP them saving yourelf time on the submits they'll come around eventually.
If a LL on its rules page insists on index.html placement, he gets what he asks for, and then the submitter is clever enough to use htaccess to get around it (I would never do this and I really don't know why anyone would, where's the benefit, just piss people off?) then it seems to me a bargain was made and kept and there shouldn't be any crying later. A deal is deal. Stand up. Besides, a majority of webmasters I've seen (most new ones less than a year or so) don't even know what or how to use htaccess.
http://www.freewebmasterhelp.com/tutorials/htaccess/
More importantly think about the long term. Its not just clicks now, its PR later too. Any page with inbound links from decent sites is going to gain PR. I've done searches and often found several pages from the same site in the results. I almost always check these out on the thought that there must be something there if so many pages are indexed (they will be indexed if you change your content around and work keywords). PR benefit accruses to the LL' too regardless where the pages are or what they end in and actually PR benefit to an LL is greater because the inbound link is usually focused on a category page.
Finally, for submitters making doorwways, I recommend making them logical and intuitive:

yoursite/teens/jan/
yoursite/anal/feb/

or

yoursite/tits/0065a
yoursite/milfs/0065b

and then sticking an index page into the
teens, anal, tits, milfs, directory. This is because surfers (especially porn surfers) are pretty clever themselves and if they like your pages they'll keep digging and just delete off the page id and try and peek into the directory. Your index will come up and you can keep them longer and maybe sell them.
Finally, its really about your site 'cause they'll check that out too and if its quality maybe even bookmark it and come back, and back. I've found that really most of my sales come from my site pages which brought surfers in from a free site submit.
You don't have to and shouldn't just rely on free site sales. If you're not equipped to be here for years then you shouldn't even try. Properly contstructed doorway content (all pages except maybe the pics directory) should be in its own directory, new text, reordered keywords, etc. because there is also going to be a "content size" benefit from the SE's regardless of the placement of that particular page in search. In otherwords you will get a slight ding of your overall sites importance from SE's on the basis of your total site size. IMHO

|jackinthe

Personally I dont see the point in wasting time changing keywords, text alt tags etc on all freesite mirrors making them appear unique to SEs because that time could be spent making your next properly unique freesite. The time it takes you to rewrite say 4 mirrors you probably could have made 3 more new freesites. Thats just the way I see it. I do think it is a good idea but from a time management perspective it doesn't really seem worth it. Thats just me though :)

The only time i feel it would be worth it is if SEs start to penalize your whole site for excessive duplicate content rather than just giving your duplicate freesites one representative listing. But I have not seen any strong evidence for this as yet.

[Linkster]

Here's my opinion if ya want it
Bill and Sean are both correct - it doesnt make a fuck how you do the mirrors - if Google was really looking that closely it would be a big deal - but they arent. Second, I have submitted free sites for years where I use the index.htm and the index.html in the same folder - sometimes the .htm version gets a good listing a year later sometimes its the root and sometimes its the warning.htm - but even more important and this seems to be lost these days among free site submitters - the site you want to get into Google and other SEs is a completely different page than what the LLs will allow - you would want to get something into the SEs thats a little more aggressive in my opinion.

I guess what it boils down to is that most people are putting way too much weight on worrying about SEs and how they react to little 4 page free sites built in a half an hour - thats really not the purpose - the free sites are for LLs. More important - if a LL wont accept sites without their recip being on an index.html page - Id start submitting somewhere else as they really dont understand SEs and that might hurt you in the long run.

[Sean416]

Sean.... I wont argue with you..Do it if you wish..:)

I'm not arguing with anyone, take it easy. I dont submit freesites anymore. I'm just offering my opinoin on things so submitters to my LL know that I dont care about this.


But these LLs have rules and its easy to follow em :)
Upon my experience ... artwilliams is right.
Just try
site1/folder1
site1/folder2
site1/folder3
you will be surprised getting accepted much faster and more often :)
Dont be surprised if your cached pages will lose PR very soon as well as index. (see below)

No, because most larger LLs don't allow you to go back in folders or switch folders. They want the entire site in one folder. The only viable option to get listed on most LLs would be to make completely different pages and just link to the images in the root freesite folder. But that would be heavy dupe content and thus not worth it to submit to smaller LLs at all. More people will just end up submitting to the biggest 15 or whatever LLs. So your rule rule, IMO, is alienating you. That's why I decided to make my post.

|pokefun|
Besides..Your recip "More Porn For Me!" on these pages reminds me sortlinks'...AND I dont think it is a coincidence :)))

What do you say?

I made those recips in april of 2004. I hadnt even heard of SortLinks so don't flatter yourself. My new recips (http://www.morepornforme.com/webmasters/recips.htm) were made in February 2005 when I completely redesigned my site.

[Bill]

I think it's time to move to allowing more recips on a submitted free site.

I've been thinking about this for a while. Making many multiple doorways with 9 recips each hurts everyone in the long run.

I'd be willing to sacrifice the third sales link on the index page in exchange for the effectiveness of having, for example, 24 text recips on that page.

Linklists should benefit from the arrangement, because it will increase the variety of potential _new_ surfers and length of time that their recips might attract a few _new_ surfers to their list.

It should be better for gaining search engine traffic for both the linklists and the freesite builders.

[SortLinks]

No, because most larger LLs don't allow you to go back in folders or switch folders. They want the entire site in one folder. The only viable option to get listed on most LLs would be to make completely different pages and just link to the images in the root freesite folder. But that would be heavy dupe content and thus not worth it to submit to smaller LLs at all. More people will just end up submitting to the biggest 15 or whatever LLs. So your rule rule, IMO, is alienating you. That's why I decided to make my post.

who for example?
I dont know any...
I d rather say that many reject warning.html
I see that you dont submit sites :)


I made those recips in april of 2004. I hadnt even heard of SortLinks so don't flatter yourself. My new recips (http://www.morepornforme.com/webmasters/recips.htm) were made in February 2005 when I completely redesigned my site.
I ve made em earlier...besides color scheme and <div align center> instead of just <td align=center>
made me think so.
ok. nevermind.

[SortLinks]

Here's my opinion if ya want it
Bill and Sean are both correct - it doesnt make a fuck how you do the mirrors - if Google was really looking that closely it would be a big deal - but they arent. Second, I have submitted free sites for years where I use the index.htm and the index.html in the same folder - sometimes the .htm version gets a good listing a year later sometimes its the root and sometimes its the warning.htm - but even more important and this seems to be lost these days among free site submitters - the site you want to get into Google and other SEs is a completely different page than what the LLs will allow - you would want to get something into the SEs thats a little more aggressive in my opinion.

I guess what it boils down to is that most people are putting way too much weight on worrying about SEs and how they react to little 4 page free sites built in a half an hour - thats really not the purpose - the free sites are for LLs. More important - if a LL wont accept sites without their recip being on an index.html page - Id start submitting somewhere else as they really dont understand SEs and that might hurt you in the long run.

I respect you Linkster, But It I should say free sites were for LLs in the past, now they are for SE and you know it!
and LLs for se too.Otherwise please tell me the reason LLs owners began to ask NICHED text links instead of pictures and just link to index page of LL!

[Linkster]

Sortlinks - I will respectfully disagree - the free sites that get submitted to LLs (again my opinion) should NOT be the ones that you are trying to get into the SEs - although in the long run some will fall in there - I think everyone is missing the point with trying so hard to get both LLs and their free sites listed in SEs based on recips and the way the free site is made.
I will restate - the submitted free sites should be for making money off the LLs traffic/surfers - the copy that is different enough with more aggressive marketing and submitted to DMOZ etc to get into the SEs should only have recips to toplists and thats about it. You will make a lot more money in the long run and I can (based on years of experience in SEs) state with no doubts - its a very rough road to try to worry about the free site index pages and their folders/recips etc - thats why I went to not using the category recips and I havent lost one single position in Google in the year since I dropped the cat recips. There are a lot more important things for a LL owner to do that will get them positioning in the SEs than worry about what the recip says.

[neveremail]

Sortlinks - I will respectfully disagree - the free sites that get submitted to LLs (again my opinion) should NOT be the ones that you are trying to get into the SEs - although in the long run some will fall in there - I think everyone is missing the point with trying so hard to get both LLs and their free sites listed in SEs based on recips and the way the free site is made.
I will restate - the submitted free sites should be for making money off the LLs traffic/surfers - the copy that is different enough with more aggressive marketing and submitted to DMOZ etc to get into the SEs should only have recips to toplists and thats about it. You will make a lot more money in the long run and I can (based on years of experience in SEs) state with no doubts - its a very rough road to try to worry about the free site index pages and their folders/recips etc - thats why I went to not using the category recips and I havent lost one single position in Google in the year since I dropped the cat recips. There are a lot more important things for a LL owner to do that will get them positioning in the SEs than worry about what the recip says.

Thats interesting - so can you submit each freesite you make even if they are on the same domain to DMOZ??

[Linkster]

Thats interesting - so can you submit each freesite you make even if they are on the same domain to DMOZ??

Definitely - as long as they are in separate subdirectories - you can have as many as you like in the free sites and galleries areas of DMOZ - I have some domains that have 50 free sites on them and all listed (and no Im not an editor or even know one - well at least I dont take advantage of my friendship with them)

[Jeka]

Good thread!
I agree with Bill about the number of recip links, it wouldn't hurt no one if there were more recips allowed on the index page.
In my opinion it's also worth it to use different text on every index copy to decrease the chances getting a double content penalty but on the other hand not all search engines have such strict rules like google has about the dc penalty. Yahoo for example lists at least 2-3 copy pages of almost all my submitted sites,... one gets #5 and one #7 listing for example.

But I also agree with Linkster, free sites, just like picture and movie galleries (and in my opinion even picture and movieposts) should be optimized for direct selling to the linklist traffic and not put the weight of importance to seo.
It makes a lot more sense to optimize special sites like hubs, blogs, niche pages for seo and get those sites listed than trying to get some lower listings for small keywords with free sites or galleries.

[SortLinks]

Sortlinks - I will respectfully disagree - the free sites that get submitted to LLs (again my opinion) should NOT be the ones that you are trying to get into the SEs - although in the long run some will fall in there - I think everyone is missing the point with trying so hard to get both LLs and their free sites listed in SEs based on recips and the way the free site is made.
I will restate - the submitted free sites should be for making money off the LLs traffic/surfers - the copy that is different enough with more aggressive marketing and submitted to DMOZ etc to get into the SEs should only have recips to toplists and thats about it. You will make a lot more money in the long run and I can (based on years of experience in SEs) state with no doubts - its a very rough road to try to worry about the free site index pages and their folders/recips etc - thats why I went to not using the category recips and I havent lost one single position in Google in the year since I dropped the cat recips. There are a lot more important things for a LL owner to do that will get them positioning in the SEs than worry about what the recip says.
Thats perfect!
Now I agree with you on the above...
how about categories? Do you promote em via category trades only?

Surprised that you have managed it with only text recip.. (btw I do it with NON TEEN LLS in my sig too ;)
Congrats!

upon my ex and the experience of 3 of friends who submit free sites...they make sales from SE traffic of free sites 4 month of age.
I completly agree that in the long run it is..
But I always live to have SE optimised free sites, to maintain better positons for our LLs (and free sites) by having better backlinks (As I noticed sites with s1/fn/ live much longer than s1/warning.html at least now with present google filters) and niched recips.
Its hard times for "white optimisation" guys like we are :)

its goona be an interesting thread for all free sites submites...we should rename it

site1/folder[n]/ VS s1/warn[n].html... lol

guys feel free to post your opinion...
and
THANK you so much Linkster!!
You gave us hope that things are not so bad at all :)

[neveremail]

Definitely - as long as they are in separate subdirectories - you can have as many as you like in the free sites and galleries areas of DMOZ - I have some domains that have 50 free sites on them and all listed (and no Im not an editor or even know one - well at least I dont take advantage of my friendship with them)
Thanks thats a good tip - I will keep doing that from now on :)
You can also post that more aggressively advertised freesite designed for SE surfers on no recip forums and anywhere else you can think of.

[SortLinks]

Sure nevermail..thats how I did with some of mine :)
but Ive submitted s1/index.htm (no recips there)