Found domain name in blacklist :(

[Netmax]

HI,

I found my domain name "porn-lovers.com"
in this blacklist:
http://bl.usefulscripts.com/blocked/

Reason: 3fn.net host

So, I have moved my sites to another hosting company.
And have already sent apeal...

Could you delete it from the blacklist ASAP, because I want to submit new sites :)

Thanks.

|thumb

[ReverendSassy]

I'm sorry but I don't understand why your hosting company would cause you to be banned from a link list Could someone please explain this to me? Thanks!

[ClickBuster]

Hello ReverendSassy,

I've seen people getting banned for using the hosting service of a company that others are using to sell illegal porn OR unwanted porn - understand it however you want to. People here want EVERYBODY to know that what we're doing is LEGAL. That is just another way to say "hey, we're honest and we want to make sure we work with honest people, so please change your hosting - that's a good way to gain our trust". If you're honest webmaster, just move on to a hosting company that is not banned and have some respect or recommended from the board members.

I hope this answered your question :)

Regards,
Andrew

[sundiver]

just wondering: why not to make some kind of a blacklisted hosting providers list here?
it would really help I think.

[Head Boy]

Thanks for the link. I found an old site of mine there that used to be on Smutserver, but I woved it when Smutserver was sold. It is now with Cyberwurx. How do I appeal? There isn't an appeal link next to the entry on the page.

The domain is www.0epics.com

[Netmax]

hey, GreenGuy, could you resolve it?

[Greenguy]

Send in an appeal if you haven't already done so - I'm not the only one that uses this blacklist.

[Netmax]

Send in an appeal if you haven't already done so - I'm not the only one that uses this blacklist.
I sent an appeal 3 days ago, still no reply.

[Head Boy]

The appeal link just doesn't appear for me, but I'll send in a standard email. Is there a better addy than to one at the bottom?

Alternatively - do I just forget about using this domain?

[sundiver]

from my experience most LL owners just ignore these appeals. so, Netmax, forget about this domain and buy a new one.

[Greenguy]

I did take a peek at this & since I didn't add it I can't remove it. But I will say that one of the reason you'll probably not get off is that your sharing an IP with Rape-forced.net - not the best kind of domain to be associated with & probably one of the reasons you'll remain on the blacklist.

[Netmax]

I did take a peek at this & since I didn't add it I can't remove it. But I will say that one of the reason you'll probably not get off is that your sharing an IP with Rape-forced.net - not the best kind of domain to be associated with & probably one of the reasons you'll remain on the blacklist.

???
You are not right.
Look at this (http://all-nettools.com/toolbox) - SmartWhois


porn-lovers.com (66.230.186.25)

66.230.128.0 - 66.230.191.255
ISPrime, Inc.
25 Broadway
6th Floor, Suite #2
New York, NY
US

-------------------------------

Rape-forced.net (216.195.42.195)

216.195.32.0 - 216.195.63.255
APS Telecom
8130 SW BEAVERTON-HILLSDALE HWY
PORTLAND, OR
US

Rape-forced.net is hosted on 3fn.
I don't use them now.

[sundiver]

PORN-LOVERS.COM

porn-lovers.com
Image updated 2005-02-09

Website Title: Quality Porn links for real Porn Lovers
Meta Description: Porn-Lovers.com links directory. Huge archive of quality porn pictures & movies
Meta Keywords: porn, sex, porn links, pantyhose, stockings, nylon, lingerie, babes, sluts
Response Code: 206
SSL Cert: plesk SSL is expired!
Website Status: Active
Reverse IP: Web server hosts 21 websites (reverse ip tool requires free login)
Server Type: Apache/1.3.31 (Unix) PHP/4.3.8 mod_ssl/2.8.18 OpenSSL/0.9.7c FrontPage/5.0.2.2635 mod_throttle/3.1.2 (Spry.com also uses Apache)
IP Address: 216.195.42.195 (ARIN & RIPE IP search)
IP Location: - New York - New York - Hayter Merchants Inc
Blacklist Status: Clear
Cached Whois: Cached today
Whois History: 14 records stored
Record Type: Domain Name
Monitor: Monitor or Backorder
Wildcard search: 'porn-lovers' or 'porn lovers' in all domains.

from www.whois.sc/porn-lovers.com

[sundiver]

but smart whois really gives the result with isprime' IP. strange.

[Netmax]

PORN-LOVERS.COM

porn-lovers.com
Image updated 2005-02-09

Website Title: Quality Porn links for real Porn Lovers
Meta Description: Porn-Lovers.com links directory. Huge archive of quality porn pictures & movies
Meta Keywords: porn, sex, porn links, pantyhose, stockings, nylon, lingerie, babes, sluts
Response Code: 206
SSL Cert: plesk SSL is expired!
Website Status: Active
Reverse IP: Web server hosts 21 websites (reverse ip tool requires free login)
Server Type: Apache/1.3.31 (Unix) PHP/4.3.8 mod_ssl/2.8.18 OpenSSL/0.9.7c FrontPage/5.0.2.2635 mod_throttle/3.1.2 (Spry.com also uses Apache)
IP Address: 216.195.42.195 (ARIN & RIPE IP search)
IP Location: - New York - New York - Hayter Merchants Inc
Blacklist Status: Clear
Cached Whois: Cached today
Whois History: 14 records stored
Record Type: Domain Name
Monitor: Monitor or Backorder
Wildcard search: 'porn-lovers' or 'porn lovers' in all domains.

from www.whois.sc/porn-lovers.com

Whois.sc is not real time, they database still show old information and I changed host 4-5 days ago.

[Greenguy]

Still doesn't change the fact that I personally can do nothing for you about this problem.

[Netmax]

Still doesn't change the fact that I personally can do nothing for you about this problem.

Yes, I understand it, just want to inform the LL owner, who added my domain to the blacklist.

[Netmax]

bump, why does LL owners ignore apeals?

[Greenguy]

If you haven't gotten a reply yet, I'd think you can assume it was denied.

[Head Boy]

Is there an email that I can use for 0epics, the appeal link is still not showing for me (maybe it's java based or something).

[Greenguy]

Head Boy - does it show "inactive" when you search the domain?

If so, it's off the list already.

[Yahook]

I don't think it's too clever to ban hosting company.

For example I use HQHost for a long time and have more than 150 domains there, I don't want to move it to another hosting. But I'm honest webmaster...

The time will come when your own hosting will be banned - then you will ask this question here... :(

[natalie]

I blacklist for site being on the same ip or namesever all the time and I will continue to do so. I email the hosting company and ask them to do something about these illegal domains most of the time too.

[Yahook]

I blacklist for site being on the same ip or namesever all the time and I will continue to do so. I email the hosting company and ask them to do something about these illegal domains most of the time too.


Natalie, could you please give me some examples of illegal domains?

[Surfn]

I don't think it's too clever to ban hosting company.

For example I use HQHost for a long time and have more than 150 domains there, I don't want to move it to another hosting. But I'm honest webmaster...

The time will come when your own hosting will be banned - then you will ask this question here... :(
I don't think it's too clever to be sharing hosts with cheaters |angry|

[Yahook]

It depends what you mean under "cheaters". If this is linklist cheaters - they can come to your host too. You will ban your own host?

[Yahook]

If you mean something illegal like "undarage girls" on the hosting - in this case the hosting company must delete this user. But you didn't give me the examples.

So you just decided to add some hosting company to your blacklist because you don't use it and some linklist cheaters use it? What will you do when they come to your hosting - ban it too? :)

[Yahook]

I don't want any war with other linklist owners ofcource, but I just want to say that this is incorrect to ban all hosting because of one cheater... There are lots of good guys that can use this hosting.

And if you ban some hosting why not to give full list of banned hosting for webmasters? Or it's better to hide it and get more free recip links?

[Scooter]

I don't think it's too clever to be sharing hosts with cheaters |angry|
I'm using colocantion server at 3fn company i'm ceater too? i'm really surprised when i saw this topick because of i'm making really good sites and now i know that i'm a cheater because of i'm using 3fn :D Good deal guys |thumb

[MrMaryLou]

If you knew what kind of crap your hosted with you wouldnt be hosted there thats why those server companies are Black listed :(

[Surfn]

Or it's better to hide it and get more free recip links?
Um if they are banned and not listed there are NO links. If they were listed the traffic from recips is very minimal. Only a noob would think there was something of great value in recips. :D

[Surfn]

I'm using colocantion server at 3fn company i'm ceater too? i'm really surprised when i saw this topick because of i'm making really good sites and now i know that i'm a cheater because of i'm using 3fn :D Good deal guys |thumbYes that makes you a cheater too :)

[sundiver]

I don't think it's too clever to be sharing hosts with cheaters |angry|
let's try to think a little.
1) how can I know, that there are cheaters hosted on this host?
2) let's say that there are no cheaters on my host at the moment of my registration. but then they appear. how can I know that they appeared?
3) the most interesting question for me. if I'm a honest webmaster, and I do not cheat, do not break rules, etc... why not to email me saying: hey, dude, you're hosted with a bad host, change it, otherwise we'll ban you? oh, yes, it's much easier to put domain in a blacklist without any notice and to vanish all the time and money webmaster invested in this domain.
you do not understand one easy thing: the only person who cares about your ban is the honest poster. neither hosting provider, nor those cheaters do not care about all your bans.
you overstate your significance for any person not related to you directly.

[MrMaryLou]

Hey lets chat some about this come on over to On The Bench http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?t=25741 :)

[Surfn]

let's try to think a little. That's the problem you should think a lot about where you are hosted first find out what which are good and bad hosts.

[Yahook]

Um if they are banned and not listed there are NO links. If they were listed the traffic from recips is very minimal. Only a noob would think there was something of great value in recips.

I'm not newb :) And I know the real situation - recip links are usefull. If not - why linklist owners ask to put them? ;) And in this situation you get the links for free because some linklist posters don't know they are banned. They wait untill you list them but you don't because you decided to ban their hosting.

[sundiver]

Um if they are banned and not listed there are NO links. If they were listed the traffic from recips is very minimal. Only a noob would think there was something of great value in recips. :D
have ever heard about so called "search engines"? or maybe something about backlinks, link popularity, SE spiders, etc.? just curious.
NO links. :D

[Surfn]

I'm not newb :) And I know the real situation - recip links are usefull. If not - why linklist owners ask to put them? ;) And in this situation you get the links for free because some linklist posters don't know they are banned. They wait untill you list them but you don't because you decided to ban their hosting.
That doesn't sound like an experienced webmasters response to me...

[Surfn]

have ever heard about so called "search engines"? or maybe something about backlinks, link popularity, SE spiders, etc.? just curious.
NO links. :DJust how much do you think you know? Explain it for all the readers of this thread. :)

[Scooter]

Yes that makes you a cheater too :)
Stupid situation don't you think so? for example Penis Bot will make such politics: I don't like USA cheaters i'll better ban all there hosts what should you do in this situation? om... lemme gess... you'll can't do anythin because of all your hosting companys will host "virtual cheaters" lol. guys you better should think how to make your SE traffic growing neither ban hosting companies LOL |pokefun|

[Yahook]

Hey lets chat some about this come on over to On The Bench http://www.greenguysboard.com/board...ead.php?t=25741

Thanks for your offer ;)

[Halfdeck]

Hey lets chat some about this come on over to On The Bench http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?t=25741 :)

I'm there.

[Scooter]

That doesn't sound like an experienced webmasters response to me...
Hahaha... guy take a look here: http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&q=porn+links&btnG=Search and try to search Hqpornlinks there... done? so how do you think who have more expirience here between you and Yahook? again LOL funny topick.

[Surfn]

Here's a reality check folks, if you want link list traffic you have to follow their rules. Simple not complicated..not rocket science. If you want to build for other things then don't submit.

[Yahook]

Surfn, I don't post free sites, but this situation is not profitable for me too. That's why I want to change this situation.

I understand that it's up your choice to make the rules. Well, if there are some linklists who use this ban rule:
1) Let's collect the full list of this linklists in this thread
2) Please give me the url where I can find the full list of banned hosting companies.

[sundiver]

Just how much do you think you know? depending on what you mean. know about what? :)
talking about SE, I thought backlinks make you PR, higher rankings, etc. I do not overestimate significance of link from my pr2 or pr4 freesite, but 100 links from pr2 pages mean something for Google. if you have some other information about ranking mechanism please share this information with us.

and Yahook is not noob I believe. if you don't know him, or his english is worse than yours it doesn't automatically mean he's a noob.

[Yahook]

I just want the linklist business to be honest for all...

[Yahook]

If you give me the list of linklists than use this rule and the full list of hostings that are banned I will write php script that will check all your backward links and send a email about it to owner of the domain - that will be honest.

[Yahook]

But I'm afraid you will not give me this list - because these links are important for you.

[sundiver]

Here's a reality check folks, if you want link list traffic you have to follow their rules. Simple not complicated..not rocket science. If you want to build for other things then don't submit.if there was rule "do not post from 3fn.net host" there wouldn't be any questions I guess.

[Yahook]

So, guys, why not to give full list of banned hosting companies here? It will be very good and usefull info for webmasters.

[plateman]

who needs a list when you can just see who is listing you and if you dont see hits from a certain LL then mail or post here and ask why...

the problem is most of the cheaters just
build auto submit and dont bother checking anything..

[Yahook]

Thanks for your answer Plateman, but I'm not agree with you - This is problem of honest posters, not of cheaters.That's why I want to discuss it.

So, You hide the full list of banned hosting companies. You offer for posters first to post and put your recip, then wait for a month for example, and then got a message that their hosting are banned? In the result some of posters remove your recip, some are to lazy to do that. This policy is profitable for you in any case, but I think you can do more honestly.

Why don't give them exact rule before they submit site to your linklist? It will be rather more honest in relation to linklist posters.

[Yahook]

And you got this submissions over and over again with the same banned hosting. Because it's profitable for you.

[sundiver]

lol. the scary-scary secret is that most of link lists who ban hosting providers are already known and posters interested in this just do not post there.
for most of serious posters it is better way than changing hosting provider twice a month.

[RawAlex]

If you post a list of hosts that are not accepted, the cheaters, scammers, and liars would just move to another host or take other actions to hide themselves out. That you happen to choose a host that has a high concentration of free site cheaters on it is really not a link list's problem.

Here is an example:

I have whole classes of IP addresses blocked to keep certain open proxies, ISPs, and other annoying sources of "wasted time" from getting to submit to me. Now, should I contact each of these people one at a time and explain to them exactly how to bypass the systems I have setup for myself to avoid having to look at their shit useless spam sites?

Nope. Revealing all of the truth would just create huge amounts of work for me as scammers and jammers will find new proxies, new ISPs, or find other methods to submit... which I will then have to review and decline over and over again.

There are certain hosts out there that are havens for scammers. If you are hosted with them, link site owners have to way to filter you out of all the shit that is out there. You may be a really nice submitter, but all the idiots around you make you very hard to pick out of the crowd. I get enough submits in a day, there is no reason to spend them time to try to pick you out of the crowd.

Return links are a very small part of a link site's overall traffic, most often a single traffic trade will generate more traffic than all of the return links total combined. "Tricking" people into putting up more return links will have a very, very small effect on total traffic - so small as to not be worth the effort.

Just one of those things.

Alex

[RawAlex]

I just want to add this: If you are submitting to so many link sites that you are unable to detemine which ones are listing you and which ones are not, then you might want to look at your overall business model. If you build a ton of sites and never see a link site in your referal list, maybe that might be a clue.

Alex

[Yahook]

RawAlex, I understand your side. And I respect you very much. But you see you also ban good webmasters. I don't submit free sites by myself but this situation is not profitable for me too.

If you can't control cheaters why do not close your submit form and make like dangerdave? You will get submissions only from good webmasters and you will not need to ban hosting. And finally all posters will be happy too - because you can give an account for good poster.

Please agree with me, you get lots of "free" links over and over again and you don't want to change this situation. Sure it's more easier to hide the rules.

[Yahook]

Some webmasters can's ask you on this board, for example their english isn't too good, so you will ban them because of this? But they can make good free sites, they can read your rules.

I don't protect cheaters, I hate them, but you also ban good webmasters. There are lots of other ways to protect you from cheaters and be honest with the webmasters and other linklist owners.

[sundiver]

Revealing all of the truth would just create huge amounts of work for me as scammers and jammers will find new proxies, new ISPs, or find other methods to submit... which I will then have to review and decline over and over again.

hm. so you believe that cheaters do not check their stats and do not check if their domains are blacklisted or not, but they will check if their host is banned or not? strange, don't you think?

I get enough submits in a day, there is no reason to spend them time to try to pick you out of the crowd.
well, actually I understand your point of view =) that's why I do not submit my freesites to your LL.


Return links are a very small part of a link site's overall traffic, most often a single traffic trade will generate more traffic than all of the return links total combined. "Tricking" people into putting up more return links will have a very, very small effect on total traffic - so small as to not be worth the effort.
did you read previous posts? nobody talk about traffic. we are talking about SE. backlinks.

If you are submitting to so many link sites that you are unable to detemine which ones are listing you and which ones are not, then you might want to look at your overall business model. If you build a ton of sites and never see a link site in your referal list, maybe that might be a clue.
as for me I know who list my sites and who don't.
but I don't understand where you see somebody telling smth like "my big problem is that I don't know who list my sites". we are talking about hosting banning. let's say you've banned me for using 3fn.net (just an example, because I'm hosted with another host). I email you. let's imagine you answer me ('let's imagine' - because I remember how plateman ignored my appeals even when the problem was resolved): "Your hosting is banned". I remove your link list from my database, you're happy, I'm happy. the only problem appears if you added me to shared blacklist. you wont remove my domain from there, right?

[Yahook]

I want to add that to ban hosting company is the same as to ban webmaster nickname :) For example you ban webmaster wich nickname "Alex" because you've find cheater with that nickname :) Isn't funny? :)

[Yahook]

RawAlex, I'm not cheater, could you please give that the list of hostins providers that are banned with you for me? by PM or by ICQ. I will use if for myself and for good linklist posters that I know.

[natalie]

I meant illegal domains like rape and ****** shit Yahook. Sif you would want to host your sites on places that have that kind of stuff.

[SI]

I have said about these issues 1.5 ago or so as my hosting suffered from cover ban. At the same time clever guys from this board had adviced me to use 'right' hosting company. They had argued in a same way: 'plenty of cheaters bla bla etc.' They had told also they don't need reciprocal links much, just like now. 1.5 years pass away i'm host my sites at dedicated servers currently, but LOL still can't get listed at the same LLs as before, perhaps reason for this time is 'bogus NS' or something like that because i've setup my own nameservers for these servers (there is no another way). There is one conclusion i've made up from that all is almost no matter where you're host your sites - sane guys will list you, insane will not. IMHO

[Surfn]

|haha

[AlexD]

Of course it's the easiest way for LL owber to ban the hosting copmany and not to ban cheaters((( I had the same situation when my domen was banned for this reason though i've posted a lot abd for a long time from this domen and did nothing wrong.

[Yahook]

Natalie, thanks for your answer ;)
All illegal stuff is prohibited on that hostings too: 3FN,HQHost and so on... (As for rape - there is difference between bsdm and rape - if you don't work in this niche you don't understand it. Rape is illegal, bdms is not).

Let's make some conclusions:
RawAlex wrote:
If you post a list of hosts that are not accepted, the cheaters, scammers, and liars would just move to another host or take other actions to hide themselves out. That you happen to choose a host that has a high concentration of free site cheaters on it is really not a link list's problem.

But why are you afraid? The "legal" hosting companies will not delete this users? You afraid because it's very difficult for hosting company to control those cheaters, and any big hosting company can be banned by this reason.

Surfn, could you please show your sites? I don't understand why you laugh :(

[Yahook]

I see in the result - there are not garantee for webmaster. Any hosting can be banned and his sites will be deleted.

And my conclusion: Webmasters have to follow rules of big linklists like Link-O-Rama and so on even if they are like this one, because these linklits have lots of quality traffic.

IMHO: As for small linklits with PR4 and 300-500 backward links that are "too big" to ban hosting companies - I don't think they should post there at all. No traffic and no Pagerank and NO GARANTEE!

[Yahook]

Surfn, sorry for posting this link, but which traffic are you talking about? ;) I don't see any traffic, but you already ban hosting companies :)
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/?url=surfnsfreeadultlinks.com

[Yahook]

And sorry guys, I really don't want any war with you, just want everything to be honest. I like new webmasters, they can post lots of free sites, with you policy you decrease the number of this webmasters.

[Surfn]

Surfn, sorry for posting this link, but which traffic are you talking about? ;) I don't see any traffic, but you already ban hosting companies :)
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/?url=surfnsfreeadultlinks.com
That's not my main LL just the one I accept partners for. :) Ask them if they like my traffic.

[Surfn]

I like new webmasters. I spend a good amount of time helping them. I do not like cheaters.

Good webmasters learn to work within the system. Cheaters whine and complain they are being treated unfairly because you make it harder for them to cheat you.

[RawAlex]

Yahook, you have answered all of your own questions. When you understand that, then you will understand what you need to do. Until then, be careful how many rocks you throw in your small, all glass house.

Alex

[Yahook]

Good webmasters learn to work within the system. Cheaters whine and complain they are being treated unfairly because you make it harder for them to cheat you.


If you make it harder for only for cheaters to be approved, I don't talk about it. But you make problems for all webmasters. You can't control cheaters because you cannot chek their sites automatically or manually and you ban hosting. And also you don't give the list of banned hostings in your rules.

Surfn, to ban hosting and not to put it on your rules page - is the same cheat. So if you do like this - you're cheater too ;)

[Surfn]

If you make it harder for only for cheaters to be approved, I don't talk about it. But you make problems for all webmasters. You can't control cheaters because you cannot chek their sites automatically or manually and you ban hosting. And also you don't give the list of banned hostings in your rules.

Surfn, to ban hosting and not to put it on your rules page - is the same cheat. So if you do like this - you're cheater too ;)
You are entitled to your opinion :)

[Yahook]

Thanks for you answeret RawAlex, but you didn't answered my question about closing your submit page like DangerDave? It will help you better then you do now.

[RawAlex]

I feel that I cannot find good submitters with a closed submit page. I have made changes within my system (including using fiarly aggressive blacklist / IP block setup) that gets me some really good new submitters, that quickly become regular submitters.

I am considering moving to a prefered submitter situation, where a number of people would have priority access over the masses, and the number of submits from the masses would be only to fill in what the prefered people don't do. However, that isn't in the cards YET.

Alex

[Simon]

As for rape - there is difference between bsdm and rape - if you don't work in this niche you don't understand it. Rape is illegal, bdms is not.Okay... well, I work in the bdsm niche just a little. :) So I do understand that part.

Yahook, I quoted your post but the rest of this isn't really directed at you specifically. It's for anyone who doesn't see that this is a very simple thing here.

What I don't understand here is that:

(i) some people seem to be warning others that if they use the wrong hosting they won't be listed on some links lists; and
(ii) other people seem to be trying to talk about whether banning hosting companies is a good idea, and if there's some way to provide a list of all the banned hosting companies.

Okay, I get the first group, they're sparing a few valuable minutes to spread the word that you need to be very careful these days about what neighborhood your sites are in. So if someone accidentally got in with the wrong crowd they can move instead of being punished like the rest who choose to live there.

But the second part of the discussion just baffles me. It's not anyone else's problem that some hosting companies allow spammers, scammers, bot operators, illegal content, and all sorts of other problems on their servers. There are too many good hosting companies to worry about posting lists of the bad ones.

All someone needs to do, if they want to be listed by the bigger/better link lists, is two things:

1. Get hosted by a reputable hosting company that's known for taking a hard line against that crap.

2. Most important... don't actually be a spammer, scammer, or other kind of cheating fuck.

Seriously, all the talk about improving the system is off the track. If it would be of benefit to link list owners to do it they would do it. It's not to their benefit to rearrange things the other way. Plus, it would benefit the scumbags who try to abuse the system, so it's not likely to get changed.

To any webmasters here who just want to get listed, and who aren't cheaters already, just move to reputable hosting and forget about this problem.

Simon

(didn't we cover all this in yesterday's OTB?)

[Scooter]

so noone whanna show that list of banned hosting companies? or this is top secret information? lol

[Surfn]

Only cheaters want to know that list.

[RawAlex]

Actually, let me correct Surfn here: Cheaters and honest people both want to know. Cheaters will profit from that information much more than honest people would.

Again, it comes to numbers: If I can get rid of 100 cheaters and as a result also decline 1 honest webmasters, I cannot and will not change policies for that 1 person in order to create 100 more problems for myself.

I also will not provide information that will allow those 100 cheaters to circumvent policies put in place to stop them from fucking my surfers over and wasting my time.

I will also say this: The list of "banned hosts" is fluid. If I said "goodhost.com" is not banned, and that I will list everyone there, then all the cheaters will move over there tomorrow and I will be fucked again.

If I get fucked too often, then I will have to charge to review sites, because the time required to handle it would be too high.

Alex

[sundiver]

Okay... well, I work in the bdsm niche just a little. :) So I do understand that part.

Yahook, I quoted your post but the rest of this isn't really directed at you specifically. It's for anyone who doesn't see that this is a very simple thing here.

What I don't understand here is that:

(i) some people seem to be warning others that if they use the wrong hosting they won't be listed on some links lists; and
(ii) other people seem to be trying to talk about whether banning hosting companies is a good idea, and if there's some way to provide a list of all the banned hosting companies.

Okay, I get the first group, they're sparing a few valuable minutes to spread the word that you need to be very careful these days about what neighborhood your sites are in. So if someone accidentally got in with the wrong crowd they can move instead of being punished like the rest who choose to live there.

But the second part of the discussion just baffles me. It's not anyone else's problem that some hosting companies allow spammers, scammers, bot operators, illegal content, and all sorts of other problems on their servers. There are too many good hosting companies to worry about posting lists of the bad ones.

All someone needs to do, if they want to be listed by the bigger/better link lists, is two things:

1. Get hosted by a reputable hosting company that's known for taking a hard line against that crap.

2. Most important... don't actually be a spammer, scammer, or other kind of cheating fuck.

Seriously, all the talk about improving the system is off the track. If it would be of benefit to link list owners to do it they would do it. It's not to their benefit to rearrange things the other way. Plus, it would benefit the scumbags who try to abuse the system, so it's not likely to get changed.

To any webmasters here who just want to get listed, and who aren't cheaters already, just move to reputable hosting and forget about this problem.

Simon

(didn't we cover all this in yesterday's OTB?)
thanks for detailed reply. =)

just wanna add a few things to previous posts made by Yahook, Scooter and me.

1) nobody clearly stated what are you fighting against. I do understand your position when you talk about cp or other illegal shit. yes. hosting company must prevent such kind of activity. but when you're are talking about cheaters who redirect traffic from freesites in example, I do not understand, how can hosting company prevent this. they do not do anything illegal, right? the reason why I'd want to clear this up is that I know some hosting companies which are banned, but they never hosted any illegal stuff. so we are coming to a conclusion: poster should be hosted with wellknown company like isprime, webair or something like that. I believe this is stupid. if I know some good and honest hosting provider, whose pricing policy is more attractive for me than isprime's one I think I can use it. you think I can't, because you don't know this hosting provider (you don't know who are this guys so they are possible cheaters. that's a normal psychological reaction). that's what is usually called 'conflict of interests'. everybody should make his or her own choice - would they rather host their sites with hosting company they like or submit this sites to link lists which do not like this hosting company. business is always finding a compromise. but. business has at least two sides. in our situation those sides are posters and owners. the only reason for this discussion is that some link list owners play unfair. you want poster to everything while you do nothing. at least you could send a one-time banning notification. cheaters won't read it, for a honest poster it can be useful. you want us to respect your work, and we do so. the only thing we want from you is to show some respect to our work. that's first.

2) I believe banning for own nameservers is stupid. 'bogus whois hosting'. lol. do not give access to the shared blacklist to those idiots who do not know what is dedicated server. it wouldn't be a problem, but it is, because some owners just ignore appeals.

3) all the hosts mentioned in this topic are Russian hosting providers. in fact almost all Russian hosting providers are banned. (I mean Russian hosting providers who allow adult material) that makes link list posting for Russian newbie* webmasters really hard and even impossible**. I know that's not your problem I'm just trying to explain why we are worrying about this so much***.


__________________
* most experienced Russian webmasters have epassporte account or credit card, so they are able to get a hosting by foreign company. but actually even for an experienced webmaster this is really incovinient due to different reasons. once again I want to point out, that not all of the banned Russian hosting providers host any kind of cheaters or illegal stuff. some of them are banned just because they are not 'known and reputated' for american webmasters.
** only when talking about link lists which ban hosting providers.
*** especially for Surfn. non of the webmasters posted in this topic are newbies.

[Scooter]

Only cheaters want to know that list.
hahaha |pokefun| only cheaters can hide there real rules lol |asshole|

[RawAlex]

hahaha |pokefun| only cheaters can hide there real rules lol |asshole|

Findpics rule (currently #22):

" We reserve the right to refuse listings and service to anyone. This is a private website. You can be declined, refused or have your listing removed for any reason. We reserve the right to blacklist domains, email addresses, hosts, and IP addresses without notice, and without notification. If you submit multiple sites that violate the rules, you domain(s) will be blacklisted without notice. We do NOT send decline messages. If your don't like it, get a lawyer and waste your money. :-)"

Sundiver: It isn't about getting the hosts to not list cheaters. If you think that is our logic, then you really did miss the point.

Alex

[Scooter]

Findpics rule (currently #22):

" We reserve the right to refuse listings and service to anyone. This is a private website. You can be declined, refused or have your listing removed for any reason. We reserve the right to blacklist domains, email addresses, hosts, and IP addresses without notice, and without notification. If you submit multiple sites that violate the rules, you domain(s) will be blacklisted without notice. We do NOT send decline messages. If your don't like it, get a lawyer and waste your money. :-)"

Sundiver: It isn't about getting the hosts to not list cheaters. If you think that is our logic, then you really did miss the point.

Alex

Poster rule #1
I can reserve the right to delete you from my submit base. i reserve the right to delete any recip that stays on my free sites if you don't list my sites. i reserve the right just say: "go to the hell if you're stupid webmaster!" |angry|

[Surfn]

Poster rule #1
I can reserve the right to delete you from my submit base. i reserve the right to delete any recip that stays on my free sites if you don't list my sites. i reserve the right just say: "go to the hell if you're stupid webmaster!" |angry|
You are now on my banned list. I hope that's what you wanted. There is no appeal for you. Have a nice day :)

[RawAlex]

Scooter, would you like a shovel? You can dig a hole for yourself faster than just using your hands.

I wouldn't expect anyone to keep a recip up on a site that wasn't listed. I wouldn't expect anyone who is blacklisted to continue to submit to me (but many stupid people with automation tools do anyway).

YOU ARE THREATENING TO DO EXACTLY WHAT I WANT YOU TO DO.

So that isn't a threat, is it? I hope more that it is a promise.

Alex

[sundiver]

Sundiver: It isn't about getting the hosts to not list cheaters. If you think that is our logic, then you really did miss the point.

Alex
you either didn't bother to read the whole post or didn't understand what I'm talking about.

... you want poster to everything while you do nothing. at least you could send a one-time banning notification. cheaters won't read it, for a honest poster it can be useful. you want us to respect your work, and we do so. the only thing we want from you is to show some respect to our work. that' first.

[sundiver]

and once again: when you ban somebody it's your own choice and your right. this dicussion is caused by adding to the shared blacklist. (bl.usefulscripts.com)

[Scooter]

You are now on my banned list. I hope that's what you wanted. There is no appeal for you. Have a nice day :)
don't forget about this dude ;)
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/?url=www.surfnsfreeadultlinks.com/
compare it with for example with this:
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/?url=all-sex-links.com
and also i think you know that PB WP adult-list.com also own russian "cheaters" lol they cheat google hahah |pokefun|

[Surfn]

don't forget about this dude ;)
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/?url=www.surfnsfreeadultlinks.com/
compare it with for example with this:
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/?url=all-sex-links.com
and also i think you know that PB WP adult-list.com also own russian "cheaters" lol they cheat google hahah |pokefun|
The ban is in effect on all my sites. I see that you were getting listed on one of them. Have a nice life :)

[natalie]

We need to be able to add pics to posts
|pokefun|
Cos the "Digging Your Own Hole Award" has to go to Scooter and Sundiver!

[Mr. Blue]

You have to play within the rules that the owners and operators of LL/TGP's set forth. If they blacklist a host, you can either change hosts or not submit. It's really just that simple...it's their pages, their traffic, their rules, and if you don't like it, don't submit.

Complaining will get you nowhere...there's good reasons for blacklisting certain hosts, etc. I've had to do that on my TGP, because of the sheer quantity of cheaters coming from one host. Do innocent people get blacklisted, yep, but that's not my problem.

The question I have to ask though is, why are these people so married to their hosts? I've changed my host a bunch of times...mainly because of upgrades, etc, but it's not a biggie to change. Or, just pay for a second hosting account. LL's don't burn that much bandwidth, even a cheapy account at a place like dreamhost could cover your needs and you could use that to submit.

Honestly, you either want to play by the rules or you don't...this isn't rocket science and complaining will get you nowhere, well, it might get you on a few more blacklists :D

[Yahook]

If you have 100+ domains it's not too easy even to change NS servers... Sure you can use two hostings at the same time, one for posting and one for your other projects. But why to spemt more time and to pay more, if you can use one hosting you like most of all?

[Yahook]

The problem is also with shared blacklist. One ll owner decided to ban hosting company and added it to shared blacklist. Another linklist owners just use it.

[RawAlex]

Yahook, if you have a great host that nobody will list, is it truly a great host?

Due to certain "features" and "options" offered by some hosts, they attract cheaters (as well as honest webmasters) who take advantage of those tools in an attempt to get more than their fair share of listings, to get listings and redirect traffic, or to sell their traffic to toolbar companies. I often thing it is in fact the toolbar guys directly trying to fuck people over.

When you choose that host, you get the "features", but you also get the baggage. A host that limits your chances to get listed isn't exactly doing you any favors.

Sundiver: I read your post VERY carefully. Why would we want to notify anyone of banned hosts? The cheaters would run like cockroaches to the next host, and we would have to start the whole process all over again. You don't think that the host themselves isn't aware of the situation? In many cases the hosts have modified thier services specifically to disguise or obscure who they are just to help their clients screw us over. I won't post them, but there are chatboards where people spend their entire lives trying to come up with ways of fucking over link sites and TGPs.

Why the heck do you think everyone is going to partner accounts and paid submits?

Sending you a notification or saying "your host is banned" is just starting a huge game of whack-a-mole, and nobody wants to do that.

The shared blacklist (which I don't use, BTW) is just a tool like any others. I think most host bans are done on an individual level, and not as a group thing.

Alex

[Yahook]

Sundiver: I read your post VERY carefully. Why would we want to notify anyone of banned hosts? The cheaters would run like cockroaches to the next host, and we would have to start the whole process all over again. You don't think that the host themselves isn't aware of the situation? In many cases the hosts have modified thier services specifically to disguise or obscure who they are just to help their clients screw us over. I won't post them, but there are chatboards where people spend their entire lives trying to come up with ways of fucking over link sites and TGPs.

This is not for me but I will answer ;) I understand your position. But some linklist owners even don't understand why banned hostings are in the shared blacklist - they think that this hostings host something illegal, but they already use this shared blacklist. But we are talking about simple linklist cheating, right? So every host can be in this blacklist.

The shared blacklist (which I don't use, BTW) is just a tool like any others. I think most host bans are done on an individual level, and not as a group thing.

Unfortunately some guys do that, sometimes they are small linklist. They ban hosting and add to shared blacklist. The other guys use it. Some guys can even delete listed sites from this host to be sure there are no cheaters listed. Then the poster needs to change hosting because he don't know who banned him.

As for closing submit form. I think it's not too difficult to do that if you have some traffic on your linklist and big webmaster database and if it's not too difficult to get an account. Good guys who use banned hosting will contact you with the examples of their sites, and you will get lots of new posters. And this system will be rather more profitable for me too.

[Yahook]

Lots of linklist owners who ban hostings will not write in this thread - I think they are afraid of attention of good webmasters to their linklists. Sure it's more profitable do not write at all.

And I respect very much the linklist owners who write in this thread and say the truth.

[Yahook]

Cos the "Digging Your Own Hole Award" has to go to Scooter and Sundiver!


Natalie, I know Scooter, he is linklist owner too and his linklist is better than a linklist of Surfn for SE traffic for example.

[Mr. Blue]

But why to spemt more time and to pay more, if you can use one hosting you like most of all?

Because you'll get listed :D

You have a choices you can make...here they are:

1. Stay with your host and just don't submit to LL's that have it banned.

2. Get a new host and move your pages.

3. Get a second host - use that to submit to LL's that have the first host banned.

Those are your options. If you don't want to correct the problem, that's fine, but there's no sense in complaining about it. The more you complain, the more people wonder why you're so attached to a hosting company.

We've all had to change hosting companies for one reason or another...it's not that big of a deal.

[Yahook]

Mr. Blue, very good answer :)

But linklist poster don't know which host is not banned because LL owners hide this list.

[Mr. Blue]

Mr. Blue, very good answer :)

But linklist poster don't know which host is not banned because LL owners hide this list.

You can understand why they hide the list? The LL owner isn't the bad guy in this situation, it's the cheaters who are abusing the system. To prevent cheaters, you take steps, you have to keep some of these steps hidden. It's like installing a safe and then giving out the combination...no one would do that :)

Just post a question on this board, "Can anyone recommend a hosting company"...people will gladly give you a list of companies, all reputable, and you can start from there :D

[Simon]

Natalie, I know Scooter, he is linklist owner too and his linklist is better than a linklist of Surfn for SE traffic for example.
If you believe everything that Alexa tells you, or some other "measurement" site tools, you (and others reading this thread) might be tempted to believe that. But the truth is so far removed from what those public stats show that those in the know will be laughing long and hard at this comparison. ;)

[Yahook]

If you believe everything that Alexa tells you, or some other "measurement" site tools, you (and others reading this thread) might be tempted to believe that. But the truth is so far removed from what those public stats show that those in the know will be laughing long and hard at this comparison.

Simon, Alexa will not show mw if you send lots of CJ or other traffic like this to your domain. But I can compare Google PageRank and Google Backward Links - I think it's enaugh to compare site for SE traffic.

[Simon]

Simon, Alexa will not show mw if you send lots of CJ or other traffic like this to your domain. But I can compare Google PageRank and Google Backward Links - I think it's enaugh to compare site for SE traffic.I know that's what many here think, no matter how many times others post about ignoring PageRank and how Google's backlinks don't tell you the real story. So I'm just mentioning again that to get the real story sometimes requires going way beyond those "tools"... and often means you also need to know all of the domains involved (and the people who own them).

Also, since very few outside the tech world install the Alexa toolbar, quoting their stats for the adult market is almost always pretty far off the mark.

But use whatever is comfortable for you. Personally I base my decisions on other data.

[Yahook]

Simon, I know how to check site for SE, there are lots of other ways instead of PageRank and Link Popularity. For example there is penalty for you in Yahoo:

http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?ei=UTF-8&p=http://www.surfnsfreeadultlinks.com&bwm=p&bwms=p

P.S. Sorry that I'm talking about your domain, but you decided to continue it.

[Yahook]

I don't want to say your linklist is bad, but your linklist is not good yet to get lots of SE traffic. And any backward link will help, even from "banned" hosting company and you will get lots of them with your policy, because you hide real rules. I just wanted to say from the first my post in this thread that this is not honest. But sure I'm not a god to ooint out how to do your business.

[Linkster]

yahook - first off - thats not his domain :) Second - google has some real nice tools if you really want to see backlinks - besides the link: command which is purposely limited by Google - however if you change out the : for a | then you will see what Google really has for a site.

As far as hosts and banning - I think that most people around here know which hosts they are - and there are loads of threads where even the owners of the hosts have come in and talked about it - so a real quick search here would give you a pretty good list
As far as recips and whether a host is banned - I (and Im sure you do as well at hqpornlinks) get a huge amount of submissions every day - and a good percentage of them are non-partner or crappy sites or known cheaters

heck youve even got a list of them over on your board - and Im sure youre not sitting there worrying about those poor cheaters that you decline and their recips :)

[swedguy]

So what you want is that everybody should have their WHOLE (email, IP's, domain, ...) blacklist fully public?

[Yahook]

Linkster the query "domain.com" will show you all backward links...

[Yahook]

So what you want is that everybody should have their WHOLE (email, IP's, domain, ...) blacklist fully public?

No, I'm talking only for ban of hosting company.

[swedguy]

No, I'm talking only for ban of hosting company.
Since you think it's unfair to people that use a specific hosting company that they don't know they are banned.
Isn't it unfair that people who has a banned email, domain, IP or something else that they don't know about it?

[Yahook]

Since you think it's unfair to people that use a specific hosting company that they don't know they are banned.
Isn't it unfair that people who has a banned email, domain, IP or something else that they don't know about it?

If you ban email, domain - you ban concrate cheater. But if you ban hosting company - you ban all webmasters from this host. Do you see the difference? ;)

[Simon]

Hi Yahook... yes, as Alex pointed out, that's not my domain. :)
I just happen to know some of the link list owners here, and am lucky enough to have access to traffic numbers that aren't as easy to find.

Now... again not just addressing this to Yahook... the real point, to me anyway, is that we seem to be discussing changing something that is in place to protect many of the most reputable link list owners. Those arguing for changes are certainly outing themselves in ways that will not help their future ability to trade 'valuable' links and grow their businesses.

This thread should have turned into a "which hosting companies can I use with all confidence?" discussion, but instead it's become a "this isn't fair" (and to whom) discussion. It's been said more than once in this thread that it's not about fair, it's about playing by the rules or not playing with the guys (and girls) who make the rules.

Interesting to me that some people don't seem to get that.

Simon

[swedguy]

If you ban email, domain - you ban concrate cheater. But if you ban hosting company - you ban all webmasters from this host. Do you see the difference? ;)
Not necessarily.
If an IP is banned, someone else might use it too.

That's not really fair to the other people who use the same IP?

[Yahook]

Big linklist owners can close their submit pages and open an partner account system. They will protect their pages from cheaters and everything will be honest. And hosting companies will not be bannes. That's my point of view.

[Yahook]

That's not really fair to the other people who use the same IP?

Sure, that's why I don't ban IP's. But there are other way to protect you from that cheaters.

[Surfn]

Hi Yahook... yes, as Alex pointed out, that's not my domain. :)
I just happen to know some of the link list owners here, and am lucky enough to have access to traffic numbers that aren't as easy to find.

Now... again not just addressing this to Yahook... the real point, to me anyway, is that we seem to be discussing changing something that is in place to protect many of the most reputable link list owners. Those arguing for changes are certainly outing themselves in ways that will not help their future ability to trade 'valuable' links and grow their businesses.

This thread should have turned into a "which hosting companies can I use with all confidence?" discussion, but instead it's become a "this isn't fair" (and to whom) discussion. It's been said more than once in this thread that it's not about fair, it's about playing by the rules or not playing with the guys (and girls) who make the rules.

Interesting to me that some people don't seem to get that.

SimonIndeed! Honest hard working webmasters that want to make the most money they can and do follow the rules. |shake|

[Yahook]

There is more profitable for webmasters to use some of "banned" hosting companies, there are lots of reasons:

1) Possibility to pay from Fethard, CG Pay, Web Money and so on.
2) 24h ICQ support - how many hosting companies have it?
3) Good price policy
4) Reliability - they know this hosting companies for a long time and they work well.

[swedguy]

Big linklist owners can close their submit pages and open an partner account system. They will protect their pages from cheaters and everything will be honest. And hosting companies will not be bannes. That's my point of view.
Now you posted your POV. Why don't you run your LL that way and let other people run their LL the way they want it?

Time to move on.

[Yahook]

Now you posted your POV. Why don't you run your LL that way and let other people run their LL the way they want it?


Because I don't ban hosting companies...

[swedguy]

Because I don't ban hosting companies...
Ok. Good for you |thumb

[sundiver]

it's about playing by the rules or not playing with the guys (and girls) who make the rules.
Simon
are you a poster? I guess you're not :)
most link list owners do not have such kind of a rule. I mean most link lists accept freesites from banned hosts. if it were a common rule there wouldn't be such kind of discussion.
the part I fully agree with you is that continuing this thread further won't take us anywhere.

[sundiver]

Sundiver: I won't post them, but there are chatboards where people spend their entire lives trying to come up with ways of fucking over link sites and TGPs.

Alex
now I understand your point of view much better. I have some reasons to think that your information is a bit incorrect in this part though. but it's up to you, and, once again, I understand your concerns although I believe these concerns do not have valid grounds :)
thanks for this explanation. and, btw, in my opinion all our posts are not adderessed to you or Surfn or Natalie. actually, as it was already said by Yahhok our main or even only concern is shared black list. as far as you do not use it, I do not have any questions to you.

[RawAlex]

Sundiver, about a year ago, a discussion here lead to the revealing of a single host name that was banned. Within hours, certain webmaster chat boards were filled with ways to get around the ban, how to set up other name servers, the host tried to contract out boxes on another host to move people, etc. It wasn't to stop the reasons that they would have been banned for, but instead to help the exact set of cheaters that were banned to work their way around the blocks. They were not going to make their sites better, remove the toolbar downloaders, the geo redirections, or re-install the images that 404ed to console hell, but they were sure going to try to trick us into listing their shit sites again.

I don't think very many link sites used a shared host ban list. I think pretty much each link site owner arrives at the same place by themselves. When we see cheaters, we attempt to find out who they are and what relationship they may have with past cheaters. We INDIVIDUALLY look for the best ways to protect out sites against people wasting out time, resources, and fucking surfers over. In the end, that many link sites have come to the pretty much the same set of conclusions should tell you something.

There is a shared blacklist (that I don't use) for individual emails or domains. It isn't any different from the posts in the "possible cheater" section on this board, except that the effects are a little more regular. Only a very few sites at the top of the chain can actually add bans that affect all sites. Everyone else maintains their own list plus the main list - but they cannot add to that main list. THere is no chance that a link site with 50 hits a day total traffic can randomly ban you and stop you from getting listed at Richard's, Link-o-rama, or other sites using that particular blacklist.

Link lists are not bound to list you. Satisfaction is not suggested, implied, or offered. How they choose to not list you is up to them.

Alex

[swedguy]

Natalie, could you please give me some examples of illegal domains?
Don't you have anything useful to do?

[Linkster]

Linkster the query "domain.com" will show you all backward links...

Yahook - here's my first free tip on SEO - that will not show you the backlinks - it will show you everyone that has those words on their page - not linking to you!
Normally I would charge for that kind of advice but since youre a regular poster here - its free:) I dont know who misled you to think that query would show backlinks - but it will NOT!

sundiver - I dont know where you are getting your information but I can guarantee you that every link list owner I know of - which is a little over 100 of the top link lists - has a host ban list - and so does just about every large TGP out there - and we do occasionally talk about it with each other. It would be stupid for us to not have a ban list - especially when in the past when we didnt look at hosts - we were spending 5-6 hours a day cleaning up sites that cheaters had submitted - and guess what - they all came from the same hosts :)
As far as the boards that were plotting how to get around the LL rules - I personally read a few of them - after translating of course :) and I can vouch for what Alex posted - and you would be amazed at some things I learned from their posts.
I can tell you that one host went so far as to post here saying they were cleaning up the cheaters - then went and tried to redirect all of the nameservers to different hosting companies - so Alex knows what he is talking about

[sundiver]

Sundiver, about a year ago, a discussion here lead to the revealing of a single host name that was banned. Within hours, certain webmaster chat boards were filled with ways to get around the ban, how to set up other name servers, the host tried to contract out boxes on another host to move people, etc. It wasn't to stop the reasons that they would have been banned for, but instead to help the exact set of cheaters that were banned to work their way around the blocks. They were not going to make their sites better, remove the toolbar downloaders, the geo redirections, or re-install the images that 404ed to console hell, but they were sure going to try to trick us into listing their shit sites again.


As far as the boards that were plotting how to get around the LL rules - I personally read a few of them - after translating of course :) and I can vouch for what Alex posted - and you would be amazed at some things I learned from their posts.
I can tell you that one host went so far as to post here saying they were cleaning up the cheaters - then went and tried to redirect all of the nameservers to different hosting companies - so Alex knows what he is talking about I know what I'm talking about too, because I'm pretty sure I know what boards you're talking about. I remember those topics on GG&J and on those boards... btw, I guess I have even more clear idea about topics on those boards as far as I don't need a translation to read them =)
as I remeber that posts they were made by (and for) honest webmasters which were concerned about banning their hosting. as for cheaters all of them know all the easy technologies you're talking about. I wonder that you found something new for you there.
moving to another hosting is not such a good idea for many of Russian webmasters as far as not all of us has credit cards to pay for a us/eu hosting. Russian hosting providers offer more convinient payment ways for Russian webmasters. so whatever you think about it, not everybody who wanted to change their nameservers, ips, etc are cheaters. not all of them or even non of them wanted to redirect your traffic, put consoles on their sites, and so on.
I do not protect those hosting providers and probably you had more than valid grounds to ban them, I just wanna explain you the situation as it is seen from other side.

I dont know where you are getting your information but I can guarantee you that every link list owner I know of - which is a little over 100 of the top link lists - has a host ban list - and so does just about every large TGP out there - and we do occasionally talk about it with each other. It would be stupid for us to not have a ban list - especially when in the past when we didnt look at hosts - we were spending 5-6 hours a day cleaning up sites that cheaters had submitted - and guess what - they all came from the same hosts
maybe they have such lists, but maybe they also use some more flexible approach to this, because I know a lot of webmasters who use 3fn, hqhost , etc and get listed on most big link lists.

[Yahook]

Yahook - here's my first free tip on SEO - that will not show you the backlinks - it will show you everyone that has those words on their page - not linking to you!

Thanks Linkster, I know how to check backward links "link:domain.com", but if you just use "domain.com" that search will also include backward links and it's not limited.

[Linkster]

Thanks Linkster, I know how to check backward links "link:domain.com", but if you just use "domain.com" that search will also include backward links and it's not limited.

I think you missed my point - I totally agree that the link:domain.com is limited on purpose by Google - but if you just use the domain name - yes you will get all backlinks but you will also get everyone that has just the name on their page without a backlink
Thats why I suggested using link|domain.com - that will just show all of Googles backlinks without the clutter of the sites that arent actually linking to you :)

[Yahook]

link|penisbot.com shows 5 010 000 pages

Checking first one: http://www.dlink.com/ - I don't see link to Penisbot there.
The second one: http://www.theatre-link.com/ - I don't see link to Penisbot there too.

So this search doesn't work for me.

But thanks for giving info for me. I know you wanted to help ;)

[Linkster]

Yahook - you are correct - Google has found their bug - so now using the pipe | symbol does almost the exact same thing as just typing in the domain.com - and choosing see all pages that contain domain.com
If you choose "see all sites that link to domain.com" it will only give a small sample of the backlinks (around 10% for a site I just checked)
However if you check using the link: command in Yahoo it seems to give almost all of the backlinks

[RawAlex]

sundiver, at the end of the day, if you live in a bad neighborhood, then you will have a hard time getting anyone to come to your door. You might be the most honest guy in the world, but you are surrounded by cheaters and scammers. I don't have the time or the will try to pick you out of that crowd.

I am currently looking at some other options that might help some webmasters out.

As for hosting, I don't use a credit card, I pay by check. You might want to consider that option (even if you have to get a company in the US to issue the checks for you) rather than limiting yourself to a very few hosts because of payment issues.

As Linkster siad, google has chosen to obscure or not show all of the results, and to provide variable information that is difficult to track and use for SEO. It makes it much more interesting to watch.

Alex

[Yahook]

Yes, but the number of links can't be more than the number of results for "domain.com".

[Linkster]

Yahook thats very true - but domain.com results arent all links :)