I fucking hate this board & I hate this business - friends? HA!

[Greenguy]

Holy shit - the last few days have been a fucking nightmare!

Let's start with the program that gave me a verbal commitment to advertising on here when I saw them in Miami. Jim & I said that was great, we'd get them the info & whatnot & they asked if they could do a little pre-ad promotion on the board, so we allow them to post threads about the program here in the main forum, assuming that they'd be starting to advertise on Sept 1st (remember, it was in Miami in Aug, so that was the next ad cycle)

Sept 1st - nothing. More posts that we let slide. Oct 1st - nothing. More posts that we let slide. So Nov is approaching & we really want to get the ball rolling. So we call our contact who tells us to call their boss & guess what? The boss has no fucking clue who we are & no idea what we're talking about. Just fucking great.

So in the main time, the person that said they were going to take out ads gets into a few little pissing matches with moderators, which happens from time to time, but instead of asking Jim or me to take care of it, the take it to the boards. One mod is no longer around, partly because of this. The other mod doesn't post as much, again, partly because of this.

Now they're not taking any ads, because the rates we quoted them for the package that they wanted were too high. Mind you, they have been "advertising" their program on the board for months & that they got the same package price that everyone on the board is offered.

Money clouded my eyes & I probably lost a lot of trust in 2 people that I considered close friends. <to self> Way to go, asshole! |banghead|

***

We also have an advertiser that pulled their ads July 1st that thinks they deserve to get the same treatment now as they did back then. I didn't want any of this to come out in public, and even got on ICQ with the owner so that it wouldn't. But one of their employees felt the need to tell Jim & me how to run our fucking board. This board is not a fucking hobby! I'm not gonna lie - I can live without the money this board makes, but Jim would be on hard times if this board wasn't around. I do truly wish that this board was ad free - no banners, no referral links, no sig files, etc - but it's not. A board like that does not exist. Jim & I have to do our best to take care of our paying advertisers & for an old advertiser - and someone that I consider a friend - to call me out on my own fucking board is horse shit!

You know what? A "friend" wouldn't assume that they could post in a paid ad spot. A "friend" wouldn't let his employees shit on me on my board. So much for that "friendship" I guess.

The term "professional courtesy" was also thrown around a lot during my ICQ conversation. I don't see a link to here on there site, but I do see links to 4 or 5 other boards/resources.

I'm not even going to touch on the shit that I let them know about that they fucked up behind the scenes - that I did not go to the board with as a "professional courtesy"

***

Then I get an ICQ from another friend that wants me to break my submit rules on LOR so they can have their workers submit multiple sites to me in the same 24 hour period - 100 of them! And it's not like they are personal sites, they're for the program this person works for. Sure, I let all my friends spam up my link list with sites for the program they are working for with no revenue to me.

I tell them that if they're making free sites, why not make Hosted Free Sites for all affiliates - this way, they avoid the submitting process & the sites are eventually all listed (I'd be fucking nuts to throw an extra 100 links onto my site in one day) Hell - they already have Hosted Galleries - you'd think this would be the next logical step, right? The reply to this (from my friend's boss) was that the only credit I'd get would be the recip link, but that they can give me content to make my own sites to promote their program.

***

And I haven't even touched on the amount of people that post, but can not read. Go to the thread that I started asking for webmaster referral programs & count the number |spam| posts (there are 9 as of this post) - I can't believe this many people are so greedy to make a few bucks off referring me that they can't take 5 fucking minutes to read my 1st post!

I have to make rules for these type of threads because if I didn't, there'd be people signing up to the board just to spam their program - that's not what I'm looking for! I want to help those that help me & help this board. That's why I have all these silly fucking rules in the thread & why I had to put in big bold letters how many posts you needed to have before you could promote yourself.

***

...and to top it off, in the middle of typing up this little fucking novel, I get a call from someone we banned from the board because they were spamming a lot. He's confused as to why he can't log into the board - and he wants advertising rates! |banghead|


***

I'm going fucking nuts & I'm taking some time off - fuck this board - fuck the people I posted about above - and most importantly fuck me for thinking I could put out a board that people can do business on without being spammed to fucking hell with idiotic ignorant posters.

|buddy| Be With You

[buttster]

Hang in there GG, tomorrow will be a better day!!

[koolkat]

GG... it's Friday... enjoy the weekend. Have a beer on me. It will all be better Monday morning (well probably not, because there will be a new bunch of people causing problems), but anyways... it's never going to end, as long as you are in business, so don't sweat it too bad. I've gotten used to people complaining and telling me how I need to run things. On my site Boobs and Balls, it is totally free, has thousands of members and thousands of free amateur photos. Do you thing that satisfies people? Nope... some want to complain because there isn't enough to their satisfaction, or they don't like this, or don't like that. I just ignore the crap... if they go away, who cares, because they aren't paying anyways! Same here... just delete, or close the thread and pay them no more attention. When they see it bothers you, then they win... don't let that happen!

[Raven]

GG...can I repost your sentiments on my board?

What is it with these people?

They think these boards run by themselves and they cost nothing.

Sig tags are so out of whack, no wonder the people who pay to play, don't want to pay anymore. Their return on investment is lost in the shuffle.....and the things posters try to get away with?

At one point, my sig tag reflected that I was a sig nazi with a toxic demeanor....people have left my board because I am so strict on spamming....but, hey, it's a fucking business...nowhere else on the planet does anyone do as much for free as this industry does.

Then, I saw your new rules and I was in tears...rejoicing that Hallelujah ..someone else understood.......

[JenC]

|violin| :D

[Linkster]

Greenie - I know that this has been a bad week for all of us - and my little problems that became a pain in your butt didnt help

However - remember back when you had the page at another board - and the reason that you went to this - (no not the money part cause I understand what you guys have to put up with for that part) but the sentiment of all of the LL owners and all of the people that got a great start in this biz because of you - your willingness to listen, teach, and help without ever worrying about a thanks or fuck you. And still do it to this day - your posts to a guy that needs help getting his little free site listed, or even when someone is trying to break into this - are more helpful than you ever get credit for - except in the eyes of the people that receive that help.
Those people are the people that are still here and still try to help out others just like you do, and thank goodness there is a board like this that gets all of that crap out of the way so that the newbie can really learn, and friends can really talk as well as do business ina spam free environment

THANK YOU my friend

[amadman]

Just step back for awhile and take a break gg.

When you get back you can try to fix what you decide needs fixing and fuck the rest.

This is still the best board around. And it would really be a shame if it fell apart. :(

[CelticTiger]

Originally posted by Greenguy
The reply to this (from my friend's boss) was that the only credit I'd get would be the recip link, but that they can give me content to make my own sites to promote their program.

For fuck sake - a recip link???! I nearly choked when I read that one.

Gee that was very kind of them. Can bills be paid with recip links?

A recip link???? |goodnight

[D-man]

Greeny - I know how ya feel - I know it's not a help but I have been dealing with the same shit myself -

Time for a drink and a BJ - I'll send Jay over for the BJ if you want and I'll have a drink! - Cheers

Keep you head up!

DON"T LET THE MAN GET YOU DOWN!

[ponygirl]

From a newbie point of view....
please excuse me if I'm getting senti-fuckin-mental, but GG -you and the people who post here are really an inspiration to those of us who are newbies looking for a place to go. I came to this board because it seems to be one of the few greatly respected ones in the biz...most of the people here are friendly, knowledgeable and willing to share their expertise with all of us. I think every business has its share of people who want to make a buck by getting around the rules, and this is no different, except that when you are at the top, yours are the rules everyone tries to break.
Boards like this (& the people who are here to help and learn) are what is going to make this industry better...slowly but surely weeding out others that are not serious or that are looking to cheat. We need people like you who speak out with rules & boards so that the biz doesn't just turn into a raging free-for-all, no good for anyone, including the surfers.
I know I can come here and get honest answers & information, that you are tough (here & on LOR) but fair, & if I get a site listed on LOR then I know I did ok and can feel good about it.

I'm sure you don't get told this often enough...GG you really are a great mentor to a lot of us & it would be a real shame to lose you or this board.

thanks for letting me get my 2cents in.

Ponygirl

[Chop Smith]

Originally posted by Linkster
THANK YOU my friend

Linkster, you sho spoke the truth here. I don't know how he has the time to do all that he does, but he has always been there for a 'nobody' in the biz. I bet after a short rest that he will be back doing the same. (http://choponthelake.com/ggskyy.jpg)

[Torn Rose]

Greenguy.... I Love You.

Jim.... I Love You.

[kristian]

Well, I fucking love this board, and even though I've yet to meet you and Jim, I fucking love you guys too.

Greenie, this thread is painful to read. I hate to think that someone as good as you would be feeling this way. The world truly is upside down this week.

The truth is, it doesn't matter if you take a break. The dickheads will be here when you return. The only thing to do is understand that they are dickheads. I meet them everyday. They don't think - and hence conduct business - like the rest of us. These are stupid people.

They're also stupid people without morals, without an ounce of goodness. One thing I've always known about you Greenie is that you're a good person. I don't want to sound like some crazy bible-basher, but it's true. You just seem really good.

Keep in mind, Greenie, that aside from running a business you're also making a difference. You help people. You look after people you don't even know. I respect that. You've never met me and yet, for about 2 years now, you've done all you can. What I'm trying to say is there's more to what you do than business, you make a difference in people's lives dude.

Don't let these people get you down. A lot of people love and respect you. :)

[Toni KatVixen]

It sounds like you really need a hug for all the crap you are putting up with. Since I'm not there to give you that, here is a boobie flash for you.
Fire starter (http://www.katvixen.com/mailer/oct04/2)

|boobies|

[TheHand]

Bummer, I HATE that kind of shit.

[Kezza]

Marker and I just wanted to add out big THANK YOU here... we are one of the LL owners that you helped so much on that other board, that Linkster just mentioned... if we hadnt found you there we wouldnt be here today!

|shake|

Sorry to here about all your frustrations... sounds like time off will be a good thing.

[selena]

They've all said it better than I could, GG.

Hope it is better for you soon. :)

[Sean416]

More Money, More Problems.

Although I am kind of dissapointed that you'd make a thread like this. You're our fearless leader! I know sometimes you feel like you're going to blow, so you just through it all out there. But the bottom line is this is a business and IMO you should keep this stuff behind closed doors. But truth be told, I am glad you shared this info with us, it makes us all appreciate what you're doing that much more.

I hope it nevers get to be too much and you continue to do what you do.

[kingdough]

i'll use my first post on your board
to say fuck me too :-)

[sando]

i can't believe what i just read! i have no clue of the ppl involved in this crazy story but... it's totally insane ppl involve in this business (affiliate program) can even think about having all for them without paying the price.
lots of guys here run paysites and all know the cost of a good advertising campain and the gain you gonna have with that.
when you see paid spots on tgps, banners on boards, etc. you know it is a serious business and am shocked ppl can think they are above the 'rules' and above the courtesy that most of guys in this industry demonstrate everyday.
If some assholes can ruin a board like this one it's a big loss for the entire community and we really can't accept that.
this board is a reference for lots of webmasters.
i can't told you what to do. you're pissed and anybody at your place must be pissed as weel.
but let's try to see the good things, we are all with you !
you can use the support of everybody in this board.
so keep on rocking cos there are good guys here.
and fuck the |asshole| :-)

[MrHackula]

Hello GreenGuy,

I wish I had no idea what you were talking about. I really, really do. I can't say that. We have been going against the flow for 7+ years now.

Your board goes against the flow... That is a good thing. If you have forgotten what the flow looks like, there is always GFY for a quick reminder.

This isn't GFY. The reason it isn't is because you make an effort to improve the current state of affairs. Evolution is bullshit. If you leave a board alone, it becomes GFY. It rots. Leave an apple on the table it doesn't evolve into a lamp, it rots. Same same.

There is only so much you can do. I am finally learning that.

I dissappear from the boards frequently for a reason: too many sites. I finally got the damn clue that I am neither immortal nor can I change the world single handed.

I am changing things and learning to program a bit. One day I realized that automation is the key to my sanity, and it is coming along day at a time.

I am not going to tell you how much I love you, what a good person you are or how much you have done for everyone else. You know these things, and to hear them again will not fix the assholes of the world.

You ever notice how much time people in this business spend telling you how to run your business? Usually people who haven't made 1% of your income? I don't have the TIME to tell anyone else what THEY should do, where do they find the time?

The minute these assholes sense a friendly soft-spot they try to take and abuse their way into it until you are left bloody and near death... All from trying to help.

What is the answer? Stop helping? No. Stop tolerating shit. Yes.
Nothing GOOD comes easy... NOTHING.

You want to do something better than the rest in this business and you will always be astonished at the number of people that will come out of nowhere to discourage you. Their sole purpose in life seems to be smashing the life out of any idea that actually improves the business. Nobody knows why. They would benefit as well, and they know it. Still, they will abuse your trust until you just stop trusting.

Man, this is turning into a rant. Suffice it to say I know the feeling, and feel your pain.

If you would like, and know a good programmer, I have a suggestion or two for easing your board related stress level. If you think I am just another knucklehead with a half assed bullshit, unworkable idea, see the thread about de-cheating HQHost. Those were the simple ones. ;-)

Opti is an absolute genius, if you don't know anyone else. (SO sayeth the elephant)

How I deal with it: Don't let them win. Get mad, stay mad, give them a bigger headache than they gave you. Learn their tricks and beat them using their own tactics. Become a total and complete tyrant, but only to those people. Learn to see them coming. Find ways to make them miserable before they even know who you are. Make it more work than it is worth to get into a position to trouble you. Most of all:

Illegitimi Non Carborundum.

At your service,

Mr. H.

[Paul Markham2]

When we atarted selling content on the Internet my first impression was, "What a bunch of idiots"

3 years down the line my impression is, "The idiots just stand out more than the intelligent ones"

There are lots of good people in this business who we deal with all the time and our business is based on, but every so often an idiot pops up.

Like the guy who thinks we should offer a 24 hour service so he can get the $20 worth of content he ordered so late he needs it now, or the guy who can't check the thumbnails on a set and sees it's not what he thought it was.

But as a new business with lots of newbie business men it's to be expected.

But one thing about advertising, we looked at it long and hard and decided for the return it simply was not cost effective. I feel a lot of boards are simply too expensive to advertis on.

Seems too many affiliate programs have priced it out of for reach for humble content providers.

[kingdough]

Originally posted by Paul Markham2
But one thing about advertising, we looked at it long and hard and decided for the return it simply was not cost effective. I feel a lot of boards are simply too expensive to advertis on.

Seems too many affiliate programs have priced it out of for reach for humble content providers.

sidenote - hey paul you have great content!

yea ever thought about teaming up with an affiliate program and sharing marketing costs? just an idea to solve that little market hiccup..

[Paul Markham2]

Originally posted by kingdough
sidenote - hey paul you have great content!

yea ever thought about teaming up with an affiliate program and sharing marketing costs? just an idea to solve that little market hiccup.. Something I want to do is put an exchange banner on our sites. It would be aimed at programs for paysite we sell content to and they would have a similar return button on their site. Both would be coded andboth would be attached to a payour system.

Done it with a couple, but need to get it expanded.

We did have an affiliate program before. But had some clients sign up, send one person who started to buy and they stopped buying. Seems it was not worth it.

[kingdough]

Originally posted by Paul Markham2
Something I want to do is put an exchange banner on our sites. It would be aimed at programs for paysite we sell content to and they would have a similar return button on their site. Both would be coded andboth would be attached to a payour system.

yea a problem you might run into is webmasters not wanting to share their content supplier.

if you can overule that objection you'll have a good strategy..

[Lunatic]

This is one of the few boards that a shmuck like me feels comfortable posting on. :D
Hope ya feel better soon. |waves|

[whitey]

Greenie...

That was the most rational rant (and best rant) I have read in awhile. Rock on and fuck the morons.

[grzepa]

Heh I've been offline for about 2 days and after that I see things like that :(

@Greenguy - you should chill out, take some time off - you and Jim are really making great work on this board, and honestly I havent seen adult webmaster board equally good....

[Jel]

Hi GG,
I don't post here that often, I mainly post on the board you first had your place on, but I do visit every day. Just to say you do a fine job, I respect anyone who helps others without trying to belittle them or make sarcastic comments. Here's hoping the assholes don't keep you down, and to seeing you back when you've taken a break.
Keep up the good work |shake|
Jel

[stablehand]

HI
I'm new in the biz and here, and am not in the groove of it yet. My impressions so far of this board and of you GG, is what has already been said by those who know you better: sharing the wealth (of knowledge) with complete strangers, which is the sole reason i can still try to make it with this biz.

I don't know very much about the history and evolution of the adult internet biz, and your personal part of it. I know as much that your way of conducting biz has kept you going for more years than many have had an ISP, and that you are making a healthy living out of it. What noone seemed to mention is the fact that conducting biz like the "friends" you mentioned, can at best make you a quick buck, and a ticket to another program. Of course some leaches always seem to prosper.

Tho, i still think there's plenty of truth in the saying we have over heres:

You can trim a sheep many times, but only skin it once.

I am sorry that anyone has to put up with that kinda "friends", but i'm sure it's not the first time for you, and not the last, that your faith in the word of an associate has not been matched. That you have managed to stay true to your ideals and continue being on top is the best proof of you being not only a skilled playa and experienced biz-man, but also of being a truly cool Green Guy.

cheers.

[Paul Markham2]

Originally posted by kingdough
yea a problem you might run into is webmasters not wanting to share their content supplier.

if you can overule that objection you'll have a good strategy.. Very good point, the upside is the number of webmasters that could be affiliates I could send.

[Sumrpal]

Hey GG, hang in there. Don't let them get you down.

As a long time business owner, I can tell you that the same stuff happens everywhere. You try to be a nice guy, and you get shit on.

Take some time off .. get away from it all completely, do something you really like to do outside of the biz .. then come back refreshed and wiser for the experience(s).

And most of all ... what MrHackula said :)

|peace|

[kalle7]

Hi GG,
Dont let those assholes ruin your day. It is people like you and Jim that makes it possible for a lot of small time webmasters like myself to get into the game. There are a lot of people supporting you and would never think about doing such insulting things like those people have tried to do. There will always be assholes in this world and sadly it does not take many of those to make the days go bad. But remember that there are a lot of wb that are around that supports you.

Come back strong!

[Extreme John]

Originally posted by Greenguy


***

We also have an advertiser that pulled their ads July 1st that thinks they deserve to get the same treatment now as they did back then. I didn't want any of this to come out in public, and even got on ICQ with the owner so that it wouldn't. But one of their employees felt the need to tell Jim & me how to run our fucking board. This board is not a fucking hobby! I'm not gonna lie - I can live without the money this board makes, but Jim would be on hard times if this board wasn't around. I do truly wish that this board was ad free - no banners, no referral links, no sig files, etc - but it's not. A board like that does not exist. Jim & I have to do our best to take care of our paying advertisers & for an old advertiser - and someone that I consider a friend - to call me out on my own fucking board is horse shit!

You know what? A "friend" wouldn't assume that they could post in a paid ad spot. A "friend" wouldn't let his employees shit on me on my board. So much for that "friendship" I guess.

The term "professional courtesy" was also thrown around a lot during my ICQ conversation. I don't see a link to here on there site, but I do see links to 4 or 5 other boards/resources.

I'm not even going to touch on the shit that I let them know about that they fucked up behind the scenes - that I did not go to the board with as a "professional courtesy"

***



Nice... I wonder did you ever ask that person to put a link up to GG&J?? They probably would have been more than happy to do it.

As much as you think some things will just be done with, they re-surface in other places, amazing isnt it.

[RawAlex]

John, too little too late. Your reactions and those you permit from your staff speak words about your abilities to do business with people, and they are not the nicest words you will hear.

GG&J applied the rules as they are, and they apply them fairly to all. You all got caught by the rules, and instead of Crhis saying "it's okay, we still got hundreds of views to our free advertising" he bitches like they owe you something more.

Whining isn't exactly a good marketing technique. Chris's reactions in various threads more than wipes out any good the original post made.

Oh well!

Alex |pissed|

[kristian]

Originally posted by Extreme John
Nice... I wonder did you ever ask that person to put a link up to GG&J?? They probably would have been more than happy to do it.

As much as you think some things will just be done with, they re-surface in other places, amazing isnt it.

You are truly stupid. You've had 24 hours to read and listen to the explanations given by Greenguy and Jim. Yet still you continue to fume and will not let this situation die and be forgotten. You yourself have said, You cant let the move get you bent. It was expected, I dont understand it, but I expected it. (http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12992&perpage=25&pagenumber=1) .

My advice to you is take your own advice. Take your own advice and, also, ask yourself a question : If you knew it would be moved, why post it as you did in the first place?

I will help you a little and answer the last part for you. You thought you might get away with spamming your program. Let me reiterate the business logic already put to you by the owners of this board. Allowing non-paying sponsors to promote their programs in a way similar to paying sponsors would not be fair to those who have paid. There is a good reason why spam is not tolerated here. Spam dilutes the potency of the promotional efforts of paying sponsors. In order to ensure payign sponsors get the best bang for their buck, Greenguy and Jim (and their moderators) endeavour to move all posts which could be considered spam to their appropriate forums.

I call you stupid not out of anger. I sincerely mean it. I truly think you are acting with stupidity, therefore, I call you stupid. I don't excpect you to take my advice, but in the interests of your business, and business friendships, I would strongly advise you to apologise to Greenguy and Jim, whilst also making a public apology to the members here both for yourself and on behalf of your employees.

I will say nothing further on this subject.

[Extreme John]

Originally posted by RawAlex
John, too little too late. Your reactions to what has happened here speak words about your abilities to do business with people, and they are not the nicest words you will hear.

GG&J applied the rules as they are, and they apply them fairly to all. You got caught by the rules, and instead of saying "it's okay, we still got hundreds of views to our free advertising" you bitch like they owe you something more.

Whining isn't exactly a good marketing technique. The reactions in this and other threads more than wipes out any good your original post made.

Oh well!

Alex |pissed|

Alex, thats ok with me, if you think 2 threads can define 5 years of doing business with 1000's of webmasters than thats your opinion and I am comfortable with that. I wish you luck in whatever you may do, and as I said in previous threads, my emails and Icq (which NONE of you sa), Im done with this issue, it honestly doesnt mean anything to me. I saw this same reaction to Pimpdogs issue with GG and you know what it proved, did or solved??? Not a damn thing.

[SirMoby]

GG the number of webmasters that you've mentored has to be in the 1,000s. Pissing on someone's mentor is never a good thing and when that mentor has helped 1,000s then it's just fucking stupid.

I owe much of my success to you and many of the members on this board.

Thanks and I hope you feel better after a day or 2 of NFL style drinking.

We love you man |greenguy|

[caringneo]

Oh! Bad things happen at times.

Green Guy, you got a PM. |shake|

Neo

[Extreme John]

Originally posted by kristian
You are truly stupid. You've had 24 hours to read and listen to the explanations given by Greenguy and Jim. Yet still you continue to fume and will not let this situation die and be forgotten. You yourself have said, You cant let the move get you bent. It was expected, I dont understand it, but I expected it. (http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12992&perpage=25&pagenumber=1) .

My advice to you is take your own advice. Take your own advice and, also, ask yourself a question : If you knew it would be moved, why post it as you did in the first place?

I will help you a little and answer the last part for you. You thought you might get away with spamming your program. Let me reiterate the business logic already put to you by the owners of this board. Allowing non-paying sponsors to promote their programs in a way similar to paying sponsors would not be fair to those who have paid. There is a good reason why spam is not tolerated here. Spam dilutes the potency of the promotional efforts of paying sponsors. In order to ensure payign sponsors get the best bang for their buck, Greenguy and Jim (and their moderators) endeavour to move all posts which could be considered spam to their appropriate forums.

I call you stupid not out of anger. I sincerely mean it. I truly think you are acting with stupidity, therefore, I call you stupid. I don't excpect you to take my advice, but in the interests of your business, and business friendships, I would strongly advise you to apologise to Greenguy and Jim, whilst also making a public apology to the members here both for yourself and on behalf of your employees.

I will say nothing further on this subject.

Because reading any of your threads bores the shit out o me and Im growing very tired of you, Ill get to the point, as to not confuse you.

1) Since you like making suggestions, I suggest you stop using the term "Stupid" so lightly in regards to people you know nothing about.

2) Im not fuming... Im laughing. And believe me I am laughing.

3) I didnt ask for your advice, if you want to give me your advice or anyone else advice they didnt ask for, you might want to ask them if they want advice, in my case Ill take all advice in person, not on a board, not on a board from someone I never even heard of and know nothing about. Maybe Ill turn to family or perhaps friends, certainly not you or anyone that uses the term "Stupid" so loosely in regards to someoen they knwo nothing about.

4) As for appologizing, IF and I use that very strongly, IF I were to appologize o anyone, it sure as hell wouldnt be for your ammusement, IF I were to ppologize to GG&J it wouldnt be here, I would pick up the phone and do it with class, as opposed to your way which is called kissing ass. I also dont feel I owe the board members an apology, an apology for what, posting something that might do some of the board members good or offer than an oppratunity to take a trip somewhere?? Gimme a break guy, the post was moved before anyone could be offended, and anyone reading this now is reading it not because they are offended, they are reading it because they are interested, or may even want to see a happy ending, one that doesnt end with people like you throwing the "Stupid" comment around along with your very unwanted advice.

As a matter of fact, here's my apology... Im sorry to the board members that are waisting their valued time reading this bullshit from top to bottom and in multiple threads, instead of using heir time wisely in a fashion that will generate more money for themselves.

Now Kristian here's my advice, duct tape your hands to your mouth so it helps you mind your business, move on, get some work done, go play in the yard, or do whatever it is that you do. This wasnt and never will be your issue.

[RockDaddy]

Can I have Link-O-Rama? ;)

You know what? A "friend" wouldn't assume that they could post in a paid ad spot. A "friend" wouldn't let his employees shit on me on my board. So much for that "friendship" I guess.It is almost always your best friend that would be the first to sleep with your wife if he got half a chance.

The "cliche" I try to live by is... "Accept it or change it". That get's me through a lot of tough times.

[Verbal]

This has gotten really ridiculous. A fucking thread got moved! One of you needs to be "the man" and phone the other and clear the air, instead of flushing a good friendship & business relationship down the toilet. Seriously. It's too easy to misread people online... I bet this would never have blown up if you guys were talking face to face. I've met each of you in Chicago before at the gatherings, and you seemed like cool straight-up people. This argument is really stupid and not worth it.

So here... have some boobies on me. |boobies|

[docholly]

Originally posted by Verbal
It's too easy to misread people online... I bet this would never have blown up if you guys were talking face to face.



No truer words were spoken.

Some how the meaning of words written cannot transmit eye contact and body language.

Even in friendship, Biz is Biz.

and i lifted a Bloody Mary in your direction last night Greenie in hopes that your Wah would be at peace.

|smooch|

[koolkat]

I have a lot of experience with running forums, and find what the admin/mod did to be perfectly acceptable. If something is not posted in the appropriate place, then it needs to be moved to where it belongs. That is a pretty plain and simple concept with just about every forum, and if it were not that way, then there would be no need to have multiple forum topics, and the place would be total anarchy and no one would every get any help or be able to find anything!
I have been with this forum since the very beginning, came over from GG's old board, and have the upmost respect for him and Jim. Think about how many people these guys have helped out! They go above and beyond to inform other webmaster and keep them in the know. Most people would try to keep this info to themselves, and profit from it, but they have shared their wealth of knowledge (as well as given other knowledgeable webmaster a forum to share theirs), with other webmasters.
I have watched this board through it's good times and it's bad (I really have more posts than this, but when the board had to be restarted, I lost them... and damn I really wanted that Buddy Christ stature for the 1000 posts :) ), and I really think this board outshines most of the other because it is run the way they do.
ExtremeJohn, I know you have been here a long time as well. It really dissapoints me to see a situation get to this point. What has really gotten to me the most is that you have allowed a representative of your company to cause you negative publicity. You have some good sites and programs, but this really does not look good on you. I know the webmasters on here are few, but some of those few are some of the biggest names in the business, and that can have a huge impact on your business! I know my opinion on how to run your business doesn't matter, but personally, I think it would be best to make your employees keep the same views as you or just allow you to handle the matters which affect the financial sides.
I really hope everyone can get things worked out for the best, and we can all get back to doing what every one wants... making money!!!

[the New Shemp]

damn, i missed a good sig placement.

[Opti]

Originally posted by the New Shemp
damn, i missed a good sig placement.


HAHA... What a shame I missed all this bullshit.. glad to have skimmed through that lot and found a laugh at the end though.




People may not change.. but venting is a good thing GG! It's even better when followed up with an over-dose of Beer and Sport watching imho |peace|

[MadMax]

I'd like to take a minute to speak as a newcomer to both the industry and this board. In the 5 months or so that I've been in the adult biz (been a webmaster for years), I've spent some time on a few dozen boards...mostly lurking and checking out the lay of the land.

I can honestly say that there are only a handful of boards that I find to be worth a fuck, and this is one of the best. Every board has it's own strength and focus, and I find this to be the single best place online that any link list owner or freesite builder could ever find to network and learn. My submit page even reflects this.

I should say that I haven't been in the adult biz long enough to have been really screwed by anyone, but I know my day is coming eventually just as sure as I know the sun will rise tomorrow.

This board is a great community, with a lot of great people sharing their knowledge and experience for the benefit of all who are willing to take the time to listen. Sure there will be problems, and unfortunately sometimes those problems will make the people who have to clean them up want to detonate a tac-nuke and chuck it all. This is probably the shittiest aspect of any business venture.


To Green Guy & Jim:

Since it doesn't get done often enough (if at all), I'd like to thank you for all the work you've done to create one of the best places for adult webmasters to come together and benefit from each others' experience. Of course you need to get paid for all the work you do (not to mention find a way to pay for what must be an ungodly amount of bandwidth), and of course you need to draw a line in the sand so that your advertisters are genuinely getting ROI that they can see. There isn't a single rule in place on this board that is unreasonable in the least.

Fetish Philes is growing 3 or 4 times faster than it would be without this board, and my freesites are doing better than ever because I found a place to network with other LL owners and develop relationships that have made both my submissions and submissions to Fetish Philes work better and return more for everyone.

I sincerely hope you're feeling better sometime very soon, and hopefully the support shown in this thread gives you an indication of how valuable this place is to those who post here. Take a break. Let the mods clean up the messes for a few. We'll be here when you get back.

Peace until then.


Max

[swedguy]

I'm confused. There was another thread with a lot of pissing. Then there was this sad thread. Now there's a lot of pissing in this thread too.

If you're going to piss, piss away and get it over with and shake hands. Geez!

Chill people. It's Saturday. Have a coffe and a glass of your favorite alcoholic beverage and smell the fresh air. Enjoy yourself :)

[Extreme John]

Originally posted by Verbal
This has gotten really ridiculous. A fucking thread got moved! One of you needs to be "the man" and phone the other and clear the air, instead of flushing a good friendship & business relationship down the toilet. Seriously. It's too easy to misread people online... I bet this would never have blown up if you guys were talking face to face. I've met each of you in Chicago before at the gatherings, and you seemed like cool straight-up people. This argument is really stupid and not worth it.

So here... have some boobies on me. |boobies|

Just want to say something here to be very clear:

Your right text is one dimensional and nothing can ever change that, face to face always is better, if not phone calls are almost as good.

I agree this board is a great place for some people and some people find it to be very usefull, for that and those people it's good thing.

I also think that the direction this went because of a post being moved is pretty damn sad.

As for controlling Chris or any of my employee's for that matter, I do that, but it doesnt mean Im always going to stop them from saying what they feel, to anyone, as I would be being a Hipocrit, I dont kiss anyone's ass in this business and if I want to say something I say it, from the times of Like Whoa when I called Nick out on GFY and let him know he was a piece of shit to whatever else I can think of, there' no rule in business or in life that says Keep your mouth shut and everyone must get along.

It's a stupid issue, and moving into day 2 it was already very boring, some new threads kept it going and tried to pump more fuel into it, by this day... Day 3 it's moved from boring to a complete waste of time. Everyone has opions on everything, youll never make everyone happy all of the time, and thats fine.

After everyone responds to GG's moment of Clarity and shows their overwhelming "LOVE" for him, im sure everything will be jut ducky, he's a business man and he will live through this, just as Chris will and I will.

[troy]

GG here is some good skunk from holland, take a smoke and relax

|potleaf| |rasta|

In the end nothing its worth it. |peace|

[Tommy]

I feel a little out of the loop too

[the New Shemp]

Originally posted by Tommy
I feel a little out of the loop too
ya, but you got top of page 3 sig placement.....

[koolkat]

Originally posted by the New Shemp
ya, but you got top of page 3 sig placement..... Doh!!! |goodnight

[Jim]

Originally posted by Extreme John
I agree this board is a great place for some people and some people find it to be very usefull, for that and those people it's good thing.

For some reason, that statement just pisses me off.

What happened with this (http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13041) John?

Do you need me to help you along?

[BrianXXX]

GG,

In just the short while I have posted here, you have helped a TON and I thank you. If you get tired of fucking those people back, I will help. You hold them, I'll fuck them :)

I hope all goes better this coming week.

[Extreme John]

Originally posted by Jim
For some reason, that statement just pisses me off.

What happened with this (http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13041) John?

Do you need me to help you along?

O.k, call me crazy, but what the hell is the problem now?? I cant say it's a great board for people either without you getting pissed?

Do I need you to help me along? Why your going to help me along because I gave you guys a compliment.. Jim ya know what, what the fuck ever man, help me along, be the fist guy to ban me in 5 years of being in business because I said something decent, that would be some funny shit, and like I really give a shit too.

Try to be a little more on the kind side and you still have an issue with it.

Your amazing bro, really. Try to take things at face value instead of analyzing every damn thing you read.

[Useless]

Christ Greenie, I don't even know the story behind this dog-fucking schmuck, but his every post is pissing me off. I can see how conducting business with a low-life small cocked fuck like that could make you want some time off. Get away from here for awhile. You've earned it. I'm sure Jim candle that bitchboy father raper.

|waves|

[KCat]

Jesus! Just one of those incidents would've been enough to drive me 'round the bend. Throw on the election results...was a big batch of crazy tossed into the drinking water this week???

As the others have said already, please keep up the good fight. I read a lot of boards, but if I want honest answers & real help, this is the board I search.

The lack of spam is what makes it possible to hit "View New Posts" & actually scan every new thread.

|smooch|

[Agent]

Originally posted by CelticTiger
For fuck sake - a recip link???! I nearly choked when I read that one.

Gee that was very kind of them. Can bills be paid with recip links?

A recip link???? |goodnight

That's what I thought. Obviously this guy's boss doesn't know who Green Guy is. He probably doesn't know what a link list is. Pretty arrogant of him if you ask me.

|monkey

[physio]

After reading Greenguys post I can really understand his anger, but in my opinion there is one thing some people that posted in this thread should think about.

It is really cool, to give GG&J some good words about their work here and about this board, because this place really rocks and these two AND their moderators are keeping this board together. Nothing wrong with that.

On the other hand I think that a lot of people stepped way over the line in this thread. The cases GG is talking about sound shitty and everyone that experiences stuff like that would be pissed. But none of us does know the exact circumstances nor does exactly know who he is talking about(of course some can be guessed). So I think that we should go a little slower on calling everyone an asshole or stupid. Because this is none of our business.

Of course you are now all free to call me stupid too :D

[LB]

I can't believe this thread is still going

Well ... I read this board every day. Both NP and GG&J are the boards I frequent, and thats pretty much it. remember don't take things personally .... there should be no emotion in making money.

'Friends' will screw you over if they can make a profit by doing so.

[Extreme John]

Originally posted by Useless Warrior
Christ Greenie, I don't even know the story behind this dog-fucking schmuck, but his every post is pissing me off. I can see how conducting business with a low-life small cocked fuck like that could make you want some time off. Get away from here for awhile. You've earned it. I'm sure Jim candle that bitchboy father raper.

|waves|

I would respond to you, but you simply dont exist to me, never have and never will, and everyone here can see right through you. You should get a job at the improv funny boy.

[Ramster]

Things seem to be getting a little out of hand here. I support Greenguy 100%! But there really isn't a need for all the nastiness.

[Dagwolf]

Originally posted by Extreme John
I would respond to you, but you simply dont exist to me, never have and never will, and everyone here can see right through you. You should get a job at the improv funny boy.


You guys posted spam in the main forum without paying for it, and you didn't even get banned...

Advertising is what keeps professional message boards afloat. There are ways of advertising for free on most of them, but the prime spots are reserved for paying advertisers.

I'm sure you already know all this. You know you're wrong; own up to it.

[Trax]

I usually don't read "drama" threads and wasn't aware GG's post would be about a serious matter. Thats why I was a little shocked when I read the thread. I don't know anything about the problems between you guys but I can say that I always enjoyed doing business with John. We even made some nice signature deals and I've always done my best to represent ExtremePaychecks in a good light. I always dealt very professional with John and his crew and I personally think that all this negative comments from people who have no clue about this matter (I include myself) are not appropriate.

I would love to see you guys get this sorted out. |smooch|

[Useless]

Originally posted by Extreme John
I would respond to you, but you simply dont exist to me, never have and never will, and everyone here can see right through you. You should get a job at the improv funny boy.

Ummm....? Wasn't THAT a response to me? What made you realize that I was talking about you? It was the small cock comment, huh. You know, they make pills for that dreaded affliction.

Guess I should cross you off my Christmas card list.|nahnah|

[Useless]

Originally posted by Trax
I personally think that all this negative comments from people who have no clue about this matter (I include myself) are not appropriate.

I agree with you, but GreenGuy didn't name names. He simply vented his frustrations. Those of us who read this board a lot knew something was up, but not the details. Most people reading this thread would have never have known that ExtremeJohn was one of the parties involved if he had not entered this thread.

Bare in mind, he was not the only person/company GG is upset about, but the other person has shown both restraint and class by not posting a 'fuck you anyway' reply.

[Extreme John]

Originally posted by Useless Warrior
I agree with you, but GreenGuy didn't name names. He simply vented his frustrations. Those of us who read this board a lot knew something was up, but not the details. Most people reading this thread would have never have known that ExtremeJohn was one of the parties involved if he had not entered this thread.

Bare in mind, he was not the only person/company GG is upset about, but the other person has shown both restraint and class by not posting a 'fuck you anyway' reply.

It's funny that a guy like you can even spell the word class. In rgeards to showing restraint, well good for the person that didnt say a word, Im not like that, I call bullshit exactly that when I see it.

And Dagwolf your right, and that wasnt my issue and isnt my issue now, like I really care that a thread was moved, it's all the extra add on shit that came with the package, like the extra digs in this thread (regardless if names were named I dont care, I knew it was about me and Im not affraid to say what I have to say, and never will be, it's shit like the calling Chris and "Employee' instead of referring to him by name, or saying he's like Pimpdog, not that Pimpdog ever bugged me because he hasnt), it's just all the extra shit that wasnt needed sespecially when the thing seemed dead to me, but if people want to keep it going Im more than welcome too, Ive alays been very open minded, I dont kiss anyone's ass and I always call things bullshit when they are bullshit. Initially my bad for even trying to get the message in the main forum and fuck me for thinking it wouldnt be a big deal to GG&J (even though it wasnt a big deal to any single one of the other boards it was put on), here is a special place and I knew the rules and should have followed them, in return certain people coul have kept their mouth shut and left out all the additional bullshit, but it seems everyone wants to go to the next level. Thats fine with me.

And people like this circu clown "Useless" being very true Wariror (maybe a keyboard one if that), just cracks me up, enjoy your 5 minutes bro it will be over before you know it.

[Pendo]

hang in there Greenie! |buddy|

[manilaheat]

I didn't have time to read this whole thread, but you fuckers attacking Extremepaychecks and John are fucking morons. John is one of the most honest and respectful people I have ever done business with. In the four years that I have known John he has not EVER treated anyone negatively that did not deserve it.

You fucking people just get a clue, or get out of this industry.

[RawAlex]

Manilaheat, it isn't about honesty, it is about expecting special treatment, and getting all out of shape when they don't get it.

John's honesty really isn't in question here, just his willingness to support an employee who really went off for no reason, should have accepted the rules as they exist and apply to all non-advertiser programs.

They made an issue out of something simple, and the results are here.

GG obviously had a crappy week of dealing with people being ignorant, stupid, or expecting some sort of special treatment where none has been offered or is available. Piles and piles of crap loads up over a period of time, and it all comes out together in one shot.

Some people don't understand how much they are imposing when they ask these sorts of things.

EJ, there really is nothing to add here. You made your case, and regardless of what the masses think, the deed is done. The "good" thing to do involves understanding what happened, how it could have been avoided, and get your employees to learn how to function better with the online communities. Your results will be better as a result.

Alex

[Carl]

What’s with all the negativity EJ? You won’t make friends talking to people that way.

What’s with all this talk about sig placement? This isn’t that other forum…

I would also like to say thanks to Green Guy, and every one else who have helped me out getting started making free sites and such on this board for giving me an education in…

“Adult marketing”

I doubt my thanks will make your days any better though, but it was worth a try.

|buddy|

[koolkat]

Originally posted by manilaheat
I didn't have time to read this whole thread, but you fuckers attacking Extremepaychecks and John are fucking morons. John is one of the most honest and respectful people I have ever done business with. In the four years that I have known John he has not EVER treated anyone negatively that did not deserve it.

You fucking people just get a clue, or get out of this industry. It's probably best that you had read everything, and the threads assosicated with it, then you would not have responded and made yourself look like an ass! |waves|

[manilaheat]

Moved threads - 75 posts of people crying - who has the time? Simple fact is: John is a good guy - you attack his company or his employees personally - that is bullshit.

[grzepa]

Originally posted by manilaheat

You fucking people just get a clue, or get out of this industry.

It would be easier if you get out of the board.

[manilaheat]

Well I am not.|waves|

[BrianXXX]

GG,

Nothing else I could do to cheer you up, so I signed up under you while adding new sponsors. So, in a month or so, you can go to McD's and get a Happy Meal on me :)

I truly appreciate again the help I get from you and I hope this post gives ya a small lift.

[koolkat]

Originally posted by manilaheat
Moved threads - 75 posts of people crying - who has the time? Simple fact is: John is a good guy - you attack his company or his employees personally - that is bullshit. The fact of the matter is not whether John is a good guy or not.
So you don't have to read everything to understand what is going on, and why people are saying the things they are, I'll summerize for you...
What happened is that one of John's employees made a post here, but did not follow the rules of the board, so his post got moved to a more appropriate forum. He wasn't happy about it, he began to complain and basically said that Greenguy and Jim should bend the rules for his company since they used to be paid advertisers here. Greenguy and Jim didn't agree.
Rather than John standing up and admitting his employee was wrong, which would have probably made it the end of the entire incident, he instead chose to say that his employee had the right to say whatever he wanted to. From that point things started to go downhill.
I think a lot of people have said things out of frustration, that they probably don't mean, so I hope all of this can get worked out with everyone soon!

[manilaheat]

Originally posted by Useless Warrior
Christ Greenie, I don't even know the story behind this dog-fucking schmuck, but his every post is pissing me off. I can see how conducting business with a low-life small cocked fuck like that could make you want some time off. Get away from here for awhile. You've earned it. I'm sure Jim candle that bitchboy father raper.

|waves|


KOOLKAT - Thanks for the summary, but read the above quote.......

John's character IS IN QUESTION.

I dont care about what happened. Above is the post that set me off. This post QUESTIONS whether John is a good guy or not.

I don't know where you are from, but I dont call people "dog-fucking schmuck" if they are a good guy.

My post is in regards to fucking babies who post shit like that.

[plateman]

Now come on guys, What I think we have here is friend abuse..
Just because You guys advertise on the board in the past You think its ok to post in the main fourm.. And Iam sure you guys are/were friends and expected to have friendship over ride rules..

Now take greenguy, he must have millions of people ask or expect special favors and people try and use him and look how many people he helped and when that thread got moved chris got pissed they got pissed and now you guys are all fighting over BS..

maybe if you guys would have asked to post in the main forum this would not have got this far.. And I think extreme is a good program and greenguy and jim is a good webmaster resource..

and other people adding fuel to the fire isnt good either..

I think you guys should say hey were sorry and thats it.. Greenguy and jim we shouldnt have got red over the thread being moved.. and I think they should accept it..

[Extreme John]

It's amazing and yet so clear...

Ill try one more time to say this LOUD AND CLEAR for everyone that has a hard time reading and understanding shit.

I KNOW THE POST DIDNT BELONG IN THE MAIN FORUM!!! I RESPECT AND UNDERSTAND THAT!! (Keep in mind it WAS NOT Johns "Employee' that made the original post it was ME). And I accept FULL responsability for my actions, and whoever doesnt like it, sorry I accept responsability, but thats life. Move on and get the fuck over it.

Now in regards to my "Employee", if Chris did or did not work for me, or in the same sense you did or did not work for me, I would ALWAYS be behind the fact that if you want to say something YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO FUCKING SAY IT, doesnt mean everyone will like it, nor do I give a shit, I would get anyone's back that speaks their mind at anytime for any reason.. Is that clear?? Dont respect me for that?? Good I dont give a shit.

Manila Heat, thank you and it's appreciated. Ill be honest here, all the little name calling and funny shit that went on after this initial "I hate everythign and this business post and everyone in the business post" is funny to me, regardless of the size of the person that said it. I havent called one person 1 name, and simply got the back of someone that did and said what they wanted to, regardless if they worked for me or not. Anyone that doesnt like the fact that I did that, or expects me to say sorry for doing it..... Can honestly move to another thread, Im not sorry for doing it, and let me make this VERY clear.. I NEVER WILL BE. People should be able to say what they want when they want. And thats the end of the story, want to call me names, assume shit and say shit, go ahead. Ill be more than happy to listen to all the funny non affecting bullshit everyone has to say.

[xxxjay]

Originally posted by Greenguy
Holy shit - the last few days have been a fucking nightmare!

Let's start with the program that gave me a verbal commitment to advertising on here when I saw them in Miami. Jim & I said that was great, we'd get them the info & whatnot & they asked if they could do a little pre-ad promotion on the board, so we allow them to post threads about the program here in the main forum, assuming that they'd be starting to advertise on Sept 1st (remember, it was in Miami in Aug, so that was the next ad cycle)

Sept 1st - nothing. More posts that we let slide. Oct 1st - nothing. More posts that we let slide. So Nov is approaching & we really want to get the ball rolling. So we call our contact who tells us to call their boss & guess what? The boss has no fucking clue who we are & no idea what we're talking about. Just fucking great.

So in the main time, the person that said they were going to take out ads gets into a few little pissing matches with moderators, which happens from time to time, but instead of asking Jim or me to take care of it, the take it to the boards. One mod is no longer around, partly because of this. The other mod doesn't post as much, again, partly because of this.

Now they're not taking any ads, because the rates we quoted them for the package that they wanted were too high. Mind you, they have been "advertising" their program on the board for months & that they got the same package price that everyone on the board is offered.

Money clouded my eyes & I probably lost a lot of trust in 2 people that I considered close friends. <to self> Way to go, asshole! |banghead|



I'm going fucking nuts & I'm taking some time off - fuck this board - fuck the people I posted about above - and most importantly fuck me for thinking I could put out a board that people can do business on without being spammed to fucking hell with idiotic ignorant posters.

|buddy| Be With You

I thought everything was cool and we had worked things out off the boards -- till I saw this? http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13020

I guess I am in the "fuck those people" category.

I can definitely see some of your points, on some you are some you are just plain wrong or there has been terrible miscommunications.

Quickly, regarding you post:

1. If you allow hostile people to moderate the boards - there will be squabbles like you mentioned. I'm not going to take random attacks from someone just because they are a mod. I’m sure if I were roaming the board randomly attacking people you would check me on it. If it’s bad for the boards, it’s bad for the boards – doesn’t matter who is doing it.

2. Somewhere signals got crossed about the timeline for advertising OCCash. Originally, we had hoped to open September 1, 2004 – as that day approached we realized that was unrealistic, so we pushed things back to October, 1 2004. October 1 came along and we still were not 100% comfortable NATS was stable enough to go out of beta yet, so we’d give it two more weeks. We did not even open to the public to October 15th, meaning November would be the first Ad Cycle. Bottom line: You can’t buy ads for a program that isn’t open. During October, IS Prime accidentally DELETED Penispalooza.com and (like idiots) we didn’t have a backup. We shot this site ourselves, so had to take the raw tapes, send them to an editor, digitalize them again, and put the site back together – THIS WAS VERY, VERY EXPENSIVE and time consuming. We hit November and again found ourselves buried in more startup costs. Do you think it would be good business to not pay are affiliates and buy ad space with the limited amount of money that is left?

If the money is not there, money is not there.

(2 continued - ***) Greenguy, you are one of my favorite people in this industry. – I’m sorry if you think we’ve been trying to milk free advertising off you guys, but I can assure you that this IS NOT the case. If I had it my way, we would have opened September 1, made a million dollars, and prepaid for a year – unfortunately, it did not work out that way. We are a brand new program that is struggling – us being slow to buy ads NOTHING WITH ME TRYING TO SCREW YOU OVER – it is just the way things have been going over here – slower and more expensive than anticipated.

3. I'm not sure why Jim thought we wanted the best package. Me not giving my partner proper notice about Jim call was my bad - I'm sorry. JC and I were both very confused when Jim quoted Ad rates when the rates that were higher that what I had seen on the generic email -- we were really confused by this and I really didn't know what to think. I told you and Jim that if you could find anywhere stating that I wanted the best package that I would gladly pay him double for it. Come to find out – it was crossed signals…

4. Jim and I figured out what the root of the confusion was and I thought everything was fine and we are setting up to go ahead and but ads - then I read this thread: http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13020

Why Would I want to spend money with someone who clearly just told me to fuck myself?

*** 5. I have supported this board and have tried to grow it into a cool community. I have done so by advertising GG and Jim FOR FREE on every link request, every acceptance email, and every success page re-direct for THE LAST TWO YEARS.

In fact, do you know what the most active thread on Greenguy and Jim has been EVER?

Review Questions for Jays XXX go here:
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4928 (almost 5000 posts)

You know why that is? Because every person that wanted to know why they didn't get listed, instead of just answering them, I told them to post on GGandJim and if they complained that they didn't have an account I told them to go get one or their question would not be answered. Everything mentioned above has brought you A LOT of new users, without which, your advertising would be useless! ***

Lastly, I apologize profusely for not having money in the OCCash budget. It is my first time running my own program, there were a ton of unforeseen expenses, and I quite honestly my inexperience with running a program haven’t helped, but NONE OF THIS, I REPEAT, NONE OF THIS HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH ME TRYING TO SCREW YOU OVER! Like I said, I not going spend money to acquire new affiliates with the money I have set aside to pay the ones we currently have.

Sorry, I hope someday you will forgive me. If you want me to fuck off, just say so.

Ball is in your court.

[docholly]

|rasta| i think we all need to just breathe.

It must be the stress from Finnbear's passing, the election and ________ but "breathe" is always a good place to re-start.

|rasta|

[Cleo]

Originally posted by docholly
|rasta| i think we all need to just breathe.

It must be the stress from Finnbear's passing, the election and ________ but "breathe" is always a good place to re-start.

|rasta|
I agree

|potleaf|

[Useless]

OK, reading Jay's post has brought me out of my circus tent and back down to earth. Though others have expressed anger in this thread, I realize that I personally dragged it to its lowest point, obviously pissing off a few folks along the way. For that, I humbly apologize. I should have kept my mouth shut, but I responded emotionally and very insultingly.

ExtremeJohn, please except my apology. I publicly attacked you without personal cause. I've never heard a bad word about you and I accept the insults I've recieved from you and others as fair game and retribution for my actions. I opened the can of worms. Now I have to eat them.

More importantly, I think we all realize that this is not what GG expected or wanted when he posted this thread. I've only known he and Jim to be fair players and know that they would not want me to acting like a rabid runt pitbull biting peoples ankles.

Folks, I'm sorry.

[Kath]

Originally posted by Useless Warrior
OK, reading Jay's post has brought me out of my circus tent and back down to earth. Though others have expressed anger in this thread, I realize that I personally dragged it to its lowest point, obviously pissing off a few folks along the way. For that, I humbly apologize. I should have kept my mouth shut, but I responded emotionally and very insultingly.

ExtremeJohn, please except my apology. I publicly attacked you without personal cause. I've never heard a bad word about you and I accept the insults I've recieved from you and others as fair game and retribution for my actions. I opened the can of worms. Now I have to eat them.

More importantly, I think we all realize that this is not what GG expected or wanted when he posted this thread. I've only known he and Jim to be fair players and know that they would not want me to acting like a rabid runt pitbull biting peoples ankles.

Folks, I'm sorry.

That took balls UW - something you don't see a lot of these days. Bravo!

Not in "the know" on any of these issues, however I know what it's like to be on GG and J's end of things with the whole advertising thing. Unfortunately it's the "friends" that generally hurt you the most - as they are the ones you would least expect to have things turn out that way. In fact the only person that still owes me on an ad deal gone bad is a former friend... I think that's what gets you to the breaking point making you feel like saying screw the whole thing - hell with it all... it's pretty f'd up.

That being said, I hope GG had a good weekend, a great Sunday with the Bills kicking some ass and comes back ready to play the game here again soon!

|shake|

[xxxjay]

Originally posted by Kath
Unfortunately it's the "friends" that generally hurt you the most - as they are the ones you would least expect to have things turn out that way. In fact the only person that still owes me on an ad deal gone bad is a former friend... I think that's what gets you to the breaking point making you feel like saying screw the whole thing - hell with it all... it's pretty f'd up.
|shake|

If it makes anyone feel any better we haven't spent advertising money ANYWHERE!

[Jim]

I promised myself that I would not post in this thread again. But, since it is still going, I need everyone to know exactly how I feel. I posted this in it's own thread but it seems, more people will read it here.

I have always said that besides politics, this is the only business where you can call your partners, competitors, friends and enemies pieces of shit in public. And, while it seems to be necessary to be able to do that just to keep everyone honest, I do long for the days when the only form of communication between webmasters was email. With the ease of conversation to many people at one time, by the time you realize you are only saying what you are saying because you have lost your temper, it is too late. I have just finished reading my posts and emails from the past several days and I am surprised at myself. People have always said of me that I have the patience of a saint. I have been communicating with webmasters, both good and bad, for almost 8-1/2 years. And, most times I do try to give the benefit of the doubt to someone I am talking to. This last week, I did not. For the people that have had to deal with my little tirades, I apologize. Most people know, I really am a nice guy.

The original post I made yesterday can be found here.
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13071

Last week is over. Today is a new day and a new week. There isn't much more that I hate more than stupid drama. Again, I apologize to everyone involved. I am going to move on to real work and not only promise myself but to everyone else, I will not post in this thread again. I just have to say, this is the most foolish past several days I have had to deal with.

[Extreme John]

Useles Warriror, all is forgiven and it's a done issue.

Jim, point taken and agreed upon.

I just like most have my strong beliefs (hence the reason I never get into political debates on boards, it just causes issues and has nothing to do with any of us making money together).

Due to my strong beliefs I also get VERY hot headed (however out of respect to this board and the people on it, I really did stay in control fro the most part), where as on other boards I have been known to take it to the last step before taking a flight to beat someone's brains in :)

I will join Jim in saying the last few days are gone, and again Im done with this issue it was stupid to begin with and got way out of hand. I no longer will be posting in this thread either.

[AcidMaX]

I am glad everyone has calmed down a bit. Hopefully things will get back to normal for everyone. I will simply say Thanks to everyone who has ever helped me out along the way. We probably don't say it to the people who help us out enough. I counted about 15 people in this thread alone who have helped me with their information, programs etc. Keep up the good work everyone!!

Andy

[spazlabz]

Originally posted by koolkat

ExtremeJohn, I know you have been here a long time as well. It really dissapoints me to see a situation get to this point. What has really gotten to me the most is that you have allowed a representative of your company to cause you negative publicity. You have some good sites and programs, but this really does not look good on you. I know the webmasters on here are few, but some of those few are some of the biggest names in the business, and that can have a huge impact on your business! I know my opinion on how to run your business doesn't matter, but personally, I think it would be best to make your employees keep the same views as you or just allow you to handle the matters which affect the financial sides.
I really hope everyone can get things worked out for the best, and we can all get back to doing what every one wants... making money!!!
I want to address this right here. First John isn't going to try and make employees keep the same views as him. Generally speaking we all share a lot of the same views because they are good for business or common sence. If he were to try and make us keep the same views as him, even if we might disagree, THEN what would you think?
Also, I am a firm believer that people in this business will do what makes them money. It shouldn't matter to anyone if they think John is a sweet guy or not, the bottom line is the bottom line, and people will do what is in their best interest and since a LOT of webmasters are making money promoting Extreme Paychecks 61 sites they won't stop because they dont like what is said on a board. IF they did, I personally would feel that this would amount to business immaturity. You can call me a stupid fat lazy assed know nothing as long as those checks keep ending up in my mailbox every period.


spaz

[Trax]

glad to see a positive turn out!

[tiny]

Spaz your a stupid fat lazy assed know nothing hahaha
Now with that said
"EVERYBODY GET TO WORK MOVE ON THERES NOTHNG MORE TO SEE HERE" :)

[spazlabz]

Originally posted by tiny
Spaz your a stupid fat lazy assed know nothing hahaha
Now with that said
"EVERYBODY GET TO WORK MOVE ON THERES NOTHNG MORE TO SEE HERE" :)
Yeah! and your tall |nahnah| tall people suck!! heh heh


spaz

[ChrisExtreme]

Originally posted by RawAlex
Manilaheat, it isn't about honesty, it is about expecting special treatment, and getting all out of shape when they don't get it.

John's honesty really isn't in question here, just his willingness to support an employee who really went off for no reason, should have accepted the rules as they exist and apply to all non-advertiser programs.

They made an issue out of something simple, and the results are here.

GG obviously had a crappy week of dealing with people being ignorant, stupid, or expecting some sort of special treatment where none has been offered or is available. Piles and piles of crap loads up over a period of time, and it all comes out together in one shot.

Some people don't understand how much they are imposing when they ask these sorts of things.

EJ, there really is nothing to add here. You made your case, and regardless of what the masses think, the deed is done. The "good" thing to do involves understanding what happened, how it could have been avoided, and get your employees to learn how to function better with the online communities. Your results will be better as a result.

Alex


Since I haven't been around for two days I will take the time to address those who have brought me up once again.

First off, why don't you show me where I really went off? Thats right you can't because all I did was ask a question. So stop your whinning and name calling and move along.

Plus I function fine in online communties where people have a clue. Here everyone is so busy kissing ass they don't even take the time to see what is really going on.

So thanks for your opinion but no one asked for it.

[ChrisExtreme]

Originally posted by koolkat
The fact of the matter is not whether John is a good guy or not.
So you don't have to read everything to understand what is going on, and why people are saying the things they are, I'll summerize for you...
What happened is that one of John's employees made a post here, but did not follow the rules of the board, so his post got moved to a more appropriate forum. He wasn't happy about it, he began to complain and basically said that Greenguy and Jim should bend the rules for his company since they used to be paid advertisers here. Greenguy and Jim didn't agree.
Rather than John standing up and admitting his employee was wrong, which would have probably made it the end of the entire incident, he instead chose to say that his employee had the right to say whatever he wanted to. From that point things started to go downhill.
I think a lot of people have said things out of frustration, that they probably don't mean, so I hope all of this can get worked out with everyone soon!

How is asking a question wrong?
Ever here of freedom of speech?
Maybe if my question was giving an aproppriate answer instead of the bullshit run around, followed by stupid wiseass comments, followed by a bunch of comments from people not involoved, things wouldn't have gone this far. But everyone and anyone decided to open their mouths, maybe next time they will learn to shut up before they even start.

[urb]

Originally posted by ChrisExtreme


First off, why don't you show me where I really went off?

http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12992

[RockDaddy]

So thanks for your opinion but no one asked for it.But everyone and anyone decided to open their mouths, maybe next time they will learn to shut up before they even start.Ever here of freedom of speech?Have you? |jester|

[koolkat]

Originally posted by ChrisExtreme
How is asking a question wrong?
Ever here of freedom of speech?
Maybe if my question was giving an aproppriate answer instead of the bullshit run around, followed by stupid wiseass comments, followed by a bunch of comments from people not involoved, things wouldn't have gone this far. But everyone and anyone decided to open their mouths, maybe next time they will learn to shut up before they even start. Chris... it wasn't the inital question where the problem came in. Where you made the comment "Unreal, another thread moved. Try to do something nice for our affiliates and have to do deal with petty BS along the way. Too bad the owners of this board don't care enough about there own surfers." is where it starded heading down hill!
While you may you may not feel so, unfortunatley this situation does involve a lot more people than you think. When things are brought out into a public forum it becomes other peoples business as well, and considering the fact that a lot of the webmasters here who use you as a sponsor, it probably makes some of them think a little bit harder about who they are doing business with. This applies to all sides!
I believe your comment "maybe next time they will learn to shut up before they even start" should apply to most everyone involved! Things probably wouldn't have turned out the way they did!

Now that it appears that most of the major parties involved have reached a concensus, maybe now would be a good time to close this thread!

P.S. - You guys sure got a hell of a lot of exposure out of this... almost 3000 views... that's probably better than the inital post would have gotten! |goodnight

[ChrisExtreme]

Originally posted by urb
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12992

Hey thanks but I've seen that thread before and all I did was ask a question. What else you got?

[ChrisExtreme]

Originally posted by RockDaddy
Have you? |jester|

I know you think your a funny guy but your off base here.

The difference is I asked questions and expected a reasonable answer. Instead I was called names and threatened. Fine you want to call freedom of speech telling someone they want to rip your legs off and beat you with them, well then thats crossing the line. If someone has an opinion then express it, but how about backing up your opinions with thoughs, reasons, and facts, instead of threats.

[Cleo]

Originally posted by ChrisExtreme
The difference is I asked questions and expected a reasonable answer.
Things got nasty after you didn't get your "reasonable answer" and you pushed the issue trying to get your "reasonable answer."

When you are at someone else's house or place of business it is their rules and they don't need to explain themselves.

There is no "freedom of speech" when visiting someone's home or place of business.

I understand the rules at GG&J's place. Advertisers get to announce their promos on the main board and everyone else uses the products board, pretty simple rules.

Their board, their rules.

Lets just let it go and get back to business.

[DangerDave]

It's finished... nothing to see here..

DD